Embarassing

[EarnedStripes44]

...but just like jeremiah wrights statements, you'd prefer these things didnt exist. You can remain insulated all you want, but you should think of your own self interest. That is what kills me about ordinary folks who side with the priviledged right. You are siding against your own self interest in every respect, the economic security of your children are at stake.

[scottw]

ENLIGHTENED? haaaaaaaaa I love it when someone refers to themselves as enlightened ........ewwww.. you are sooo special and smart too, you must look in the mirror and just gaze at yourself admiringly every morning...tell me, when you become ENLIGHTENED do they take away your sense of humor, because I've noticed that the two rarely co-exist...


ENLIGHTENED is sufficient to tell me all I need to know, how do you get ENLIGHTENED? Do you have to drink something for that, Kool Aid maybe, probably RED KOOL AID?...I guess if you expect the government to provide everything for you, then you should also expect to be failed, it's a choice you know or maybe you don't... I think I erred when I mentioned the interview with Amadenijad, I think that was actually Dianne Sawyer licking his boots, sorry Leslie if you are reading this, and then Dan Rather swapping spit with Saddam Hussein, that was priceless...COURAGE...my children will be fine, what you propose is more of exactly what has caused all of the ills that you speak of, but the left never examines the results of their crappy socialist programs, just claim that they are simply underfunded and need to get bigger...the only things that get bigger are the beaurocracies and the suffering for those that "depend" on them...but without a mass dependency on government programs there wouldn't be much of a reason to vote for the dems...so sign em' up!!!

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

you know what slaves did when the constitutional convention failed them the first time. Most of them turned to the bible, thereby embracing subservience, servitude and complacency. Those that didnt cling to there religion while the planter class kept them in chains turned to guns. That is exactly what people do when the government fails them. Now the present state of the american proleteriat in no way compares to that of the american slave, but just ride through a poor community, be it black, white or latino. You will see dopedealers, armed stick up kids and churches. Those that dont bide there time in church, pray to the P&N, the pipe and needle. The others religious traditions are rooted in swigs from 40oz's of old english 800, zima, MD 20/20 among other spirits. I promise you, if things keep up, this will all be coming to a neighborhood near you if it already hasnt.

I think your making excuses for unlawful abhorent behavior that even the poor members of the community don't make. Coloring too many people with the same broad brush by giving or making excuses for thier behavior only shows that you may even condone the poor peoples so-called desperate behavior as a means to a quicker end (some went to the bible some took to thier guns). Stop blaming anyone of us for slavery that our forebearers particpated in. You're much more condescending to the poor people than we are.

Don't for one minute think that none of us do not understand anyones plight in America. Even the media yesterday publicly ridiculed some of the statements Reverend Wright made after giving his initial presentation at a press club speech. It is his right however to say what he wants. I may not embrace it, but I'll defend his right to say whatever he'd like.

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

I guess you didnt har what Rev. Hagee said about catholics, gays and jewish disobedience, who of course, as we know, endorsed McCain.

You can mask your opinions in this double standard nonsense, but you know as well as I do that we dont like to hear angry black men.

And as far as double standards are concerned women probably suffer the most as a result of such things, not you and me.

Thats because McCain immediately refuted what he said and his endorsement.

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

I think your making excuses for unlawful abhorent behavior that even the poor members of the community don't make. Coloring too many people with the same broad brush by giving or making excuses for thier behavior only shows that you may even condone the poor peoples so-called desperate behavior as a means to a quicker end (some went to the bible some took to thier guns). Stop blaming anyone of us for slavery that our forebearers particpated in. You're much more condescending to the poor people than we are.

Don't think for one minute that none of us do not understand anyones plight in America. Even the media yesterday publicly ridiculed some of the statements Reverend Wright made after giving his initial presentation at a press club speech. It is his right however to say what he wants. I may not embrace it, but I'll defend his right to say whatever he'd like.

You do not understand what oppression is when you are poor and black. It has nothing to do with being condescending. The travesty hear is dismissing my statement as a broad generalization of poor communities. There are good people in the ghetto, no doubt about it, but religion in many circumstances, has a medicating effect and nurtures complacency, good and bad. As does alcohol and drugs, good people and bad. There is a liquor for every traffic light on every corner in South Washington DC. I have seen it with my own eyes.

Tell me why unemployment in the poor black communities of southside of chicago is upwards of 50 percent... what else are people to do when there are no jobs. There are more drug dealers than are street corners which may explain 300+ caskets a year in North Philadelphia. I think your more out of touch than I am. Moving a couple of eightballs a weekend consistently is the equivalent of 30,000 dollars a year. Sounds better than the GAP, oh..but thats right, corporate lay offs and outsourcing our the new business models.

Well maybe you are not out of touch, it may very well be that you understand, but the tone of your response is at the very least an apathetic point of view. So I am to assume you dont care, neither does the government. Sure there are good people in ghetto, but is it fair for them to work hard for nothing. For their children to turn to crime and drugs because of widespread public school failures. I can give lists of examples of how blacks, by and large, were kept out of the american dream. And Im talking NOW not then.

And as far as the slavery issues come. It has never been reconciled. You cant chain a man up and then set him free and expect him to compete... but if you prefer to lay the blame squarely on the shoulders of forebearers rather than acknowledge the devestating social economic and psychological impact it has had our black brethren, then you should stick your thumb up your arse farther.

Remember, it is not the statements that are made, it is the state of affairs.

[EarnedStripes44]

McCain did not denounce Hagee's endorsement to the same extent that Obama did against Farakhan. You know that as well as I do!!!

[EarnedStripes44]

Liqour stores on every corner* in SW D.C.

[EarnedStripes44]

now you've really got my juices flowing...

I just would like to congratulate the right for the widespread acceptance of blackballing the free speech of citizens of this country as "anti-american". You all have worked very hard at accomplishing such a triumph in addition to trampeling among other things, the constitution protections. My, my, my.... such a nice precedent.

Speaking of all of this anti-american rhetoric being fomenting by Mr. Wright, its ironic that black surnames almost sound more american than some of the name of these pundits crying foul. I mean how anti-american can people with last names like "Jones, Jefferson, Williams, Carter, Roberts, etc" be after all.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

You do not understand what oppression is when you are poor and black. It has nothing to do with being condescending. The travesty hear is dismissing my statement as a broad generalization of poor communities. There are good people in the ghetto, no doubt about it, but religion in many circumstances, has a medicating effect and nurtures complacency, good and bad. As does alcohol and drugs, good people and bad. There is a liquor for every traffic light on every corner in South Washington DC. I have seen it with my own eyes.

Tell me why unemployment in the poor black communities of southside of chicago is upwards of 50 percent... what else are people to do when there are no jobs. There are more drug dealers than are street corners which may explain 300+ caskets a year in North Philadelphia. I think your more out of touch than I am. Moving a couple of eightballs a weekend consistently is the equivalent of 30,000 dollars a year. Sounds better than the GAP, oh..but thats right, corporate lay offs and outsourcing our the new business models.

Well maybe you are not out of touch, it may very well be that you understand, but the tone of your response is at the very least an apathetic point of view. So I am to assume you dont care, neither does the government. Sure there are good people in ghetto, but is it fair for them to work hard for nothing. For their children to turn to crime and drugs because of widespread public school failures. I can give lists of examples of how blacks, by and large, were kept out of the american dream. And Im talking NOW not then.

And as far as the slavery issues come. It has never been reconciled. You cant chain a man up and then set him free and expect him to compete... but if you prefer to lay the blame squarely on the shoulders of forebearers rather than acknowledge the devestating social economic and psychological impact it has had our black brethren, then you should stick your thumb up your arse farther.

Remember, it is not the statements that are made, it is the state of affairs.

here we get to the root of it all. These problems exist becasue of opprsssion or because people (regardless of color) dont get off their arses and get to work. Do you know why there are large african american populations in Oakland CA, Coastal Texas and Louisianna? becasue in WWII, thats where the jobs were. They moved to where the could work and support their family. I'd love to move to a warmer climate, but I cannot support my level of living at the salaries offered in other parts of the country...its a choice, so I live in the Northeast. I dont believe ANYONE is oppressed in this country. Hard work and creativity are always rewarded and there are always jobs for those willing to work. ES44 - you give in to the "victimization" that pluages black America, its a blame game and it hurts more than it helps. Look at the history of asian americans, although not 1000X as bad as slavery, many were brought to this country as near-slaves to build the railroads. but through hard work and tenacity, this culture has become a key contributing componenet to America today. There is no need for an Asian Al Sharpton. As much as African AMericans have truly suffered in this country, its time to move on and accept resposbility for our actions, liquour stores, drugs, proverty are all symptoms of a need, stop the need, stop the symptms. Have you every heard Bill Cosby's take? He puts the accountability at the family level. Thats where the solution is

[scottw]

I can't believe how easy it is for a knuckle dragging nanderthal to tweak Enlightened Elitists, I have a great idea for a new thread.....

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

here we get to the root of it all. These problems exist becasue of opprsssion or because people (regardless of color) dont get off their arses and get to work. Do you know why there are large african american populations in Oakland CA, Coastal Texas and Louisianna? becasue in WWII, thats where the jobs were. They moved to where the could work and support their family. I'd love to move to a warmer climate, but I cannot support my level of living at the salaries offered in other parts of the country...its a choice, so I live in the Northeast. I dont believe ANYONE is oppressed in this country. Hard work and creativity are always rewarded and there are always jobs for those willing to work. ES44 - you give in to the "victimization" that pluages black America, its a blame game and it hurts more than it helps. Look at the history of asian americans, although not 1000X as bad as slavery, many were brought to this country as near-slaves to build the railroads. but through hard work and tenacity, this culture has become a key contributing componenet to America today. There is no need for an Asian Al Sharpton. As much as African AMericans have truly suffered in this country, its time to move on and accept resposbility for our actions, liquour stores, drugs, proverty are all symptoms of a need, stop the need, stop the symptms. Have you every heard Bill Cosby's take? He puts the accountability at the family level. Thats where the solution is

No, there are large populations of blacks in coastal louisiana because the French planters brought them there. Not to mention when New Orleans became a part of the US it was a port of entry for wholesale human cargo, as was Charleston SC and Savannah GA. Pick up your history book. Same goes for Texas my friend. Blacks didnt move to major cities (like Oakland, Philly, Baltimore) until WW1 and later WW2. Ask your parents, thats probably when they moved to Levittown from Bed-Stuy.

And as far as achievement gaps come, they have made unbelievable strides. There has never been an Asian candidate for president. It is just a shame that this Wright is trashing that any hopes for 1st black president who is credible and qualified. Not to mention there are large populations of middle class blacks in Atlanta and Chicago.

And unarmed asians arent gunned down by police (be they black cops or white cops), and Al Sharpton is a parody if you ask me. MLK, Malcolm X, DuBois... those are real black leaders, all exterminated or exhiled....

[EarnedStripes44]

but Jim... at the very least you do acknowledge that the conditions faced by blacks are somewhat unique. We made reparations to Asians and fundamentally, I think the two cultures are different. Black culture has African roots whereas Asian culture is something entirely different. The notion of self help is a conservative American principle that some will find is easier to adopt than others. Not that it is wrong by no means, but its application must be calibrated.

[scottw]

a little poetry to soothe the enlightened


OBAMA, OBAMA
When you trashed your grandmama
I thought it pathetic and sad
but now, this is sinister
you've just trashed your minister
the guy loved you like he was your dad

[RIJIMMY]

I guess I dont, but I may be ignorant. There are affirmitive action laws, quotas, equal opportunity laws which favor minorities. I truly feel every person has equal opportunity in this country regardless of race. It may mean getting rid of the gang tatoos, cutting your dreadlocks and putting on a suit, but if you want to play the game, thems the rules. EVERY culture in America has morphed into the mainstream in order to succeed. No one wears kilts, wooden shoes, or garlic around their necks where I work.

[scottw]

noone wears garlic around their necks anymore because everyone knows that vampires aren't real......

[RIJIMMY]

CNN) -- Sen. Barack Obama said he is "outraged" by comments his former minister, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, made Monday at the National Press Club and "saddened by the spectacle."


Sen. Barack Obama on Tuesday denounced comments made by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

1 of 2 "I have been a member of Trinity Church since 1992. I have known Rev. Wright for almost 20 years," he said at a news conference in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. "The person I saw yesterday is not the person I met 20 years ago."

Obama said he is outraged by Wright's remarks that seemed to suggest the U.S. government might be responsible for the spread of AIDS in the black community, and his equation of some American wartime efforts with terrorism.

"What particularly angered me was his suggestion somehow that my previous denunciation of his remarks were somehow political posturing," said Obama, who added that Wright had shown "little regard for me" and seemed more concerned with "taking center stage."

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I guess I dont, but I may be ignorant. There are affirmitive action laws, quotas, equal opportunity laws which favor minorities. I truly feel every person has equal opportunity in this country regardless of race. It may mean getting rid of the gang tatoos, cutting your dreadlocks and putting on a suit, but if you want to play the game, thems the rules. EVERY culture in America has morphed into the mainstream in order to succeed. No one wears kilts, wooden shoes, or garlic around their necks where I work.

Affirmative action laws are on the way out. Additionally, the greatest beneficiaries of affirmative action have been women (regardless of race).

There are still things your forgetting. Your culture (and mine) at work and the one you know at home are for the most part 1 and the same. Its not the case for everyone else. Some people live in 2 worlds, the suit and tie world and the chicken and grits worlds. I think were seeing that with Obama. He had his reverend and the southside of Chicago, and the Ivy Leaguers.

And every culture morphing into the "mainstream", thats a little intolerant dont you think. And "success", your going to have to operationalize that for me. Sounds like talking points from some British Immigration official.

[EarnedStripes44]

oh... and why isnt all of sudden Obama agrees with you, he has trying to distance himself for over a month now to no avail. The media wont let it die just as sure as you will not.

Did you know a Clinton supporter organized and set up the National Press Club conference with Mr Wright. Brilliant political move and the media are picking it to pieces like vultures over a rotting carcass. Clinton is very cunning and exceptionally cutthroat. She is like a political mob boss, and her hands are clean. You guys should think critically, look at the motives behind all of this. This is all calculated.

Mr Wright should have saw this coming, but I think the Obama-Wright bridge has long burned.

[EarnedStripes44]

I just hope that the next time a catholics runs for office, you think of the innocent altar boys.

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by scottw

ENLIGHTENED? haaaaaaaaa I love it when someone refers to themselves as enlightened ........ewwww.. you are sooo special and smart too, you must look in the mirror and just gaze at yourself admiringly every morning...tell me, when you become ENLIGHTENED do they take away your sense of humor, because I've noticed that the two rarely co-exist...


ENLIGHTENED is sufficient to tell me all I need to know, how do you get ENLIGHTENED? Do you have to drink something for that, Kool Aid maybe, probably RED KOOL AID?...I guess if you expect the government to provide everything for you, then you should also expect to be failed, it's a choice you know or maybe you don't... I think I erred when I mentioned the interview with Amadenijad, I think that was actually Dianne Sawyer licking his boots, sorry Leslie if you are reading this, and then Dan Rather swapping spit with Saddam Hussein, that was priceless...COURAGE...my children will be fine, what you propose is more of exactly what has caused all of the ills that you speak of, but the left never examines the results of their crappy socialist programs, just claim that they are simply underfunded and need to get bigger...the only things that get bigger are the beaurocracies and the suffering for those that "depend" on them...but without a mass dependency on government programs there wouldn't be much of a reason to vote for the dems...so sign em' up!!!

to become enlightened, you just have to read. Both sides of the argument too. Objectivity is paramount.

As far bureaucracy and its dependents, tell that to Bear Stearns. The Federal Reserve Bank provided a 28 billion something life vest. Sounds like dependents suffering to me. What did you get, a 500 dollar rebate check. I bet it cost 50 dollars to fill your car wit gas. That'll get you through 10 weeks.

We have mixed economy for a reason Scott. Without regulation, capitalism will degenerate into its cancerous stage. Look at the mortgage industry and energy, heavily deregulated under Pube administrations, the resul; price fixing and monopolies and the like and subsequent market collapse. Your being bamboozled. If I drink red kool aid, your drinking something thick and brown and its is not Mocha.

[scottw]

must be great to be enlightened and know it all, the Press Club claims that it was not a Clinton operative that set it up, and I'm sure you'll applaud Clinton for any tactics that she uses against the repubs. , so you're saying poor ole' Obama is just an innocent victim of a devious plot?? that's the problem with you enlightened individuals, you way overthink things, did Hillary's operative write the Rev's speech too, I think they were exactly the same things he's been saying all along, just looped over and over like he says, Obama has been defending him for weeks and suddenly he's gone too far saying exactly what he's always said???...pretty funny, oh, well...high 5's all around at Clinton headquarters, Bill's lighting up a big fat Monicanudo cigar right about now with visions of naked interns dancing in his head...

[scottw]

[QUOTE=EarnedStripes44;586033]to become enlightened, you just have to read. Both sides of the argument too. Objectivity is paramount.

I just read that again, that is great because I thought maybe there was some ceremony or something, virgin sacrafice, out of body experience, trip to the desert...it's that simple huh? I'm in, guess I'll have to learn to read though

wait a minute.....you aren't suggesting that you are in any way objective, are you 44? Cause, you've written a whole lot and I don't see you grasping both sides of anything

[stripersnipr]

Obama denounced the Rev and his hate filled lunacy today. Time for the old but,but, but Bush routine isn't it?

[Joe]

Somebody got to Rev Wright....could have been anybody. Between the people who think Obama could beat McCain but not Cinton, to the Clinton supporters, or the Clinton's via an agent, to all the people who don't want to see a black president - it's a big list.

[scottw]

April 29, 2008
No, It's Not All Wright
Marc Sheppard

"Last go round, the media and other apologists insisted we were overreacting to out of context "snippets," misrepresentative of Jeremiah Wright's 30 years of preaching. Yesterday's disgraceful showcase at the NPC shredded all such pretext."

"So let the apologists shift gears from contextual excuses to those of megalomania and vindictiveness as they continue to shield their beloved candidate"

[spence]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

We have mixed economy for a reason Scott. Without regulation, capitalism will degenerate into its cancerous stage. Look at the mortgage industry and energy, heavily deregulated under Pube administrations, the resul; price fixing and monopolies and the like and subsequent market collapse. Your being bamboozled. If I drink red kool aid, your drinking something thick and brown and its is not Mocha.

Sorry, I'm on the road all week and just can't afford the time to keep stringing Scott along

But this seems to be a fundamendal issue here. Some (and not a Liberal some mind you) are more willing than others to realize the world can't be seen in black and white terms.

Our economy is not a "free market" but rather a "regulated market". Wealth redistribution isn't a Liberal evil but rather a necessity that's supported the middle class for over half a century via a progressive tax system and formed the structure for a consumer driven society.

It's like the pundits have whipped people into a frenzy where by anything not focused on some Conservative or Liberal "brand ideal" can't be a good thing because it's not on the critical path to nirvanna, all the time knowing themselves that their mantras are the result of ego and advertisement revenues rather than pragmatic and learned thought. While there may be wisdom in their words, it's not a playbook for life and certianly not something you could base a successful society around alone.

Any good engineer knows you make something better by taking it to the extreme to see where it breaks, and as such there are really no conservative or liberal ideas that would work in their pure forms.

Yet our leadership, to appease a base, pretends to behave as thought this is true to serve not you or me but ultimately the corporate machine.

Enlightenment is a relative term and in this information age it can be difficult to know how good your data is, but I'd still rather take some enlightenment over none.

The simple fact is, making the effort to understand or even appreciate a viewpoint that's not your own is a very liberal thing, and a very good thing. In some cases it might help you know your enemy, and in others it may give you better appreciation for another perspective on life.

God forbid it indicates your %$%$%$%$ does indeed stink. If so perhaps you should listen to your body and change your diet.

-spence

[Bill L]

The thing about Wright is that when he states and amplifies such ridiculous propositions as the U.S. government somehow being involved in AIDS, when he suggests Minister Farrakhan somehow represents one of the greatest voices of the 20th and 21st centuries, when he equates the United State's wartime efforts with terrorism, there are no excuses. I dont need to hear any more or research his sermons to decide I dont like the guy.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Sorry, I'm on the road all week and just can't afford the time to keep stringing Scott along

But this seems to be a fundamendal issue here. Some (and not a Liberal some mind you) are more willing than others to realize the world can't be seen in black and white terms.

Our economy is not a "free market" but rather a "regulated market". Wealth redistribution isn't a Liberal evil but rather a necessity that's supported the middle class for over half a century via a progressive tax system and formed the structure for a consumer driven society.

It's like the pundits have whipped people into a frenzy where by anything not focused on some Conservative or Liberal "brand ideal" can't be a good thing because it's not on the critical path to nirvanna, all the time knowing themselves that their mantras are the result of ego and advertisement revenues rather than pragmatic and learned thought. While there may be wisdom in their words, it's not a playbook for life and certianly not something you could base a successful society around alone.

Any good engineer knows you make something better by taking it to the extreme to see where it breaks, and as such there are really no conservative or liberal ideas that would work in their pure forms.

Yet our leadership, to appease a base, pretends to behave as thought this is true to serve not you or me but ultimately the corporate machine.

Enlightenment is a relative term and in this information age it can be difficult to know how good your data is, but I'd still rather take some enlightenment over none.

The simple fact is, making the effort to understand or even appreciate a viewpoint that's not your own is a very liberal thing, and a very good thing. In some cases it might help you know your enemy, and in others it may give you better appreciation for another perspective on life.

God forbid it indicates your %$%$%$%$ does indeed stink. If so perhaps you should listen to your body and change your diet.

-spence

when all else fails...dazzle them with arrogant condecension

enlightenment= narciscistic delusion

black/white right/wrong truth/lies
I perfer absolutes,

[EarnedStripes44]

Also, to put some closure on the Obama thing.

Note that he did not immediately panic and throw the reverend under the bus. That, I do respect. He distanced himself and severed ties only now that the reverend is playing into the hands of the foes that insist on distracting us with Bubbleyum rather than provide the political sustenance we need in order choose which candidate to support. Rather than not support Obama because of vague proposals, people will not support Obame because of soundbytes.

This is by no means a smoking gun but rather for those who are so quick to reject the possibility that this Press Club conference is a just another function of Clinton political calculus, please refer to the link below:

[EarnedStripes44]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0...d_n_99129.html