Petrushka

[scottw]

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none" — Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

If you have the attitude that there is always another rube to take advantage of, get the job done and move on to another it's fine.
That is Trump's historical MO, burning banks and subs. That's how you get involved in 3500 lawsuits.

But in the real world we need allies, sooner or later and we need them to trust us. Guaranteed there has been collateral damage over the years, but not in your face like this.

Remember what the Bushes put together in the Middle East in days.

That's why the Kurds, Afghanistan, Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Colombia, the Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Hungary, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, the Netherlands, Nicaragua, the Philippines, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom and Uzbekistan and others matter.

Do you think Trump is capable of that kind of coordination and diplomacy?

And when all is said and done what did Erdogan get for not going public with all he knew on Kashoggi? There is a lot more to that story than is currently known.

yes we need allies. and the years we spent fighting with the kurds, mean nothing?

pete, do you recall all the liberals
bashing bush for staying in iraq through the surge,,they all said bush was a war hawk who should have brought the troops
home. the democrats took control of congress with the message that it was time
to get out.

so can you see where i’m coming from, when i say it all
appears political? people
claim to believe one thing, then the other party gets control
and they say the opposite.

republicans attacked obama
for running up debt, and 95% say nothing when trump does the same. that’s the hypocrisy i have no use for.

you are right, 100% correct, we need allies. does that mean american teenagers need to die there forever? can we send them equipment but bring our
kids home? and the fact that americans have died there ( 5 this year) means nothing to
the kurds unless we stay forever?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

yes we need allies. and the years we spent fighting with the kurds, mean nothing?

pete, do you recall all the liberals
bashing bush for staying in iraq through the surge,,they all said bush was a war hawk who should have brought the troops
home. the democrats took control of congress with the message that it was time
to get out.

so can you see where i’m coming from, when i say it all
appears political? people
claim to believe one thing, then the other party gets control
and they say the opposite.

Look at these articles and notice the date

https://www.nationalreview.com/magaz...isqualify-her/

https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/...n-impeachment/

republicans attacked obama
for running up debt, and 95% say nothing when trump does the same. that’s the hypocrisy i have no use for.

you are right, 100% correct, we need allies. does that mean american teenagers need to die there forever? can we send them equipment but bring our
kids home? and the fact that americans have died there ( 5 this year) means nothing to
the kurds unless we stay forever?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

We might end up there for the foreseeable future, like Korea and NATO. That's part of the price of being the biggest arms dealer in the world.

I don't think pulling out, putting your head in the sand and doing thoughts and prayers is a viable alternative.

[Got Stripers]

Best quote ever. Ben Rhodes, who formerly served as deputy national security adviser to President Barack Obama, tweeted, "Sometimes the only way to explain/predict Trump's foreign policy is to think 'what would Putin want the US to do?'"
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Best quote ever. Ben Rhodes, who formerly served as deputy national security adviser to President Barack Obama, tweeted, "Sometimes the only way to explain/predict Trump's foreign policy is to think 'what would Putin want the US to do?'"
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so ben rhodes presumably was on board with obama making fun of Mitt Romney, when Romney suggested that Russia was a major adversary? remember that? obama made fun of romney for saying that, and all the liberals
laughed hysterically.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Best quote ever.

really?

[scottw]

I think it's funny that peto is starting threads now and just replying to himself

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by scottw

really?

Pretty sure you know it wasn’t meant literally, best quote recently on interpretation of Trumps foreign policy.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Pretty sure you know it wasn’t meant literally, best quote recently on interpretation of Trumps foreign policy.
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That’s debatable. You sound desperate
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by scottw

That’s debatable. You sound desperate
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Not at all, if you want to watch desperate, tune into Fox or watch the next Trump conference on the lawn, I’m having fun watching the melt down. Better than some of the Netflix shows I’m watching.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Not at all, if you want to watch desperate, tune into Fox or watch the next Trump conference on the lawn, I’m having fun watching the melt down. Better than some of the Netflix shows I’m watching.
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It's not funny it's concerning. Trump is basically saying Congress can't investigate me. This is quickly become a constitutional crisis in the middle of many foreign policy threats. God forbid if something really bad happens we can't respond via a knee jerk tweet.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

It's not funny it's concerning. Trump is basically saying Congress can't investigate me. This is quickly become a constitutional crisis in the middle of many foreign policy threats. God forbid if something really bad happens we can't respond via a knee jerk tweet.

Tito, get Spence a tissue.....

[Got Stripers]

Oh I know it’s anything but funny, in fact the world is always one conflict away from pulling us into another war, but even so it’s hard not to laugh at some of the BS coming out of the White House and GOP.
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[scottw]

dummycraps have been drooling to impeach him since the morning of the election...it's pretty pathetic and unpatriotic

[Got Stripers]

Want to talk pathetic, how about Trump helping Turkey to invade the Kurds by pulling our troops out, the Kurds by the way are guarded the 10000 Isis jailed fighters, most swearing to go after the US if they get out. Those troops guarding those nuts are moving to the front as soon as needed, a massive jailbreak might be looming on the horizon. All that talk about Isis being defeating is probably as usual in Trump world just talk.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Want to talk pathetic, how about Trump helping Turkey to invade the Kurds by pulling our troops out, the Kurds by the way are guarded the 10000 Isis jailed fighters, most swearing to go after the US if they get out. Those troops guarding those nuts are moving to the front as soon as needed, a massive jailbreak might be looming on the horizon. All that talk about Isis being defeating is probably as usual in Trump world just talk.
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every time you cackle about something....it ends up being just cackling....it's like spence's predictions

I was SHOCKED to read this

The anonymous member of the intelligence community who filed the whistleblower complaint against President Trump that has resulted in a formal impeachment probe against him reportedly had a professional relationship with one of the 2020 Democratic presidential candidates.

Three people familiar with the situation said the Intelligence Community’s inspector general, Michael Atkinson, revealed during closed-door interviews with Republicans that the whistleblower, reportedly a registered Democrat, had a prior work relationship with one of the current Democratic presidential contenders, according to a report in the Washington Examiner published Tuesday.

[Pete F.]

A bad situation in Northeast Syria is about to get much worse. Sources tell me that US officials have just informed the Syrian Kurds that Turkey is likely to attack on air and ground in next 24 hours. The US will do nothing. Targets are Tal Abyad and Ras al Ayn.
Ironically Tal Abyad was the main supply route for ISIS in 2014-15 through an open border from Turkey. Turkey refused repeated requests from US to shut border. That's a big reason why US decided to partner with SDF, which took the town in the summer of 2015.
...I'm also told that Turkish attack appears coordinated with the Russians. Russian-backed forces are mobilizing to invade the Kurdish area from the south — towards Tabqa and other spots. Meanwhile, ISIS is mobilizing sleeper cells in Raqqa and attacks have taken place tonight.
And finally there is the scary issue of the thousands of ISIS detainees and families, who may be breaking out of camps and prisons after Turkish attack--with NO American back-up plan. This is a major disaster coming at us because of Trump's decisions. Hours left to stop it.
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[Got Stripers]

Not to worry, we have a leader with great and unmatched wisdom, his thumbs will tweet out a solution, one our enemies will probably understand more easily than our allies. Keep saying how good we have it back home, if the Middle East blows up with the poor handling by Trump, guess what our economy is tied closely to what happens world wide. I hope the Republicans continue to push hard against what Trump is proposing.

Kurds lost 10,000 plus, much more wounded helping up the US fight ISIS and we lost a dozen soldiers, but Trump needs to make a political move to gain what he sees as a political win or fulfillment of a campaign promise. The world is watching with glee (enemy’s) or shock (allies) at what is happening with US foreign policy.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Sources tell me that US officials have just

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hey peto, how do your sources inform you?....is it telepathically or smoke signal?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

A bad situation in Northeast Syria is about to get much worse. Sources tell me that US officials have just informed the Syrian Kurds that Turkey is likely to attack on air and ground in next 24 hours. The US will do nothing. Targets are Tal Abyad and Ras al Ayn.
Ironically Tal Abyad was the main supply route for ISIS in 2014-15 through an open border from Turkey. Turkey refused repeated requests from US to shut border. That's a big reason why US decided to partner with SDF, which took the town in the summer of 2015.
...I'm also told that Turkish attack appears coordinated with the Russians. Russian-backed forces are mobilizing to invade the Kurdish area from the south — towards Tabqa and other spots. Meanwhile, ISIS is mobilizing sleeper cells in Raqqa and attacks have taken place tonight.
And finally there is the scary issue of the thousands of ISIS detainees and families, who may be breaking out of camps and prisons after Turkish attack--with NO American back-up plan. This is a major disaster coming at us because of Trump's decisions. Hours left to stop it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

why is this ours alone to deal with. and i'm supposed to believe, that if trump then declared war on turkey to protect the kurds, none of you would have a problem with that?

what i learned last night, is that congress never formally approved use of force in syria ( they didn’t need to obviously, but could have). so none of the politicians wanted to go on the record as saying they supported putting kids in harms way there, but they’re all livid that trump, who campaigned specifically on the issue of bringing troops home and won the election, is keeping his word.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

why is this ours alone to deal with.


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Ummmm....NATO. ??
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

why is this ours alone to deal with. and i'm supposed to believe, that if trump then declared war on turkey to protect the kurds, none of you would have a problem with that?

what i learned last night, is that congress never formally approved use of force in syria ( they didn’t need to obviously, but could have). so none of the politicians wanted to go on the record as saying they supported putting kids in harms way there, but they’re all livid that trump, who campaigned specifically on the issue of bringing troops home and won the election, is keeping his word.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

They were there to defeat Isis and 10,000 of those nuts are housed in make shift prisons, guarded by Kurds. Can you imagine being a soldier or commander stationed there, when the Kurds out of necessity abandon their guard duties to head to the front, allowing sleeper cells to break out their comrades. Trump is a simpleton and doesn't seek advice from anyone, this decision blindsided everyone and now if forced to walk it back; it's not going to help him politically. A phone call from Turkey, someone gives him the praise he so desperately needs and out we go, with the Russians poised to move from the other side.

[Sea Dangles]

America 1st
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

why is this ours alone to deal with. and i'm supposed to believe, that if trump then declared war on turkey to protect the kurds, none of you would have a problem with that?

what i learned last night, is that congress never formally approved use of force in syria ( they didn’t need to obviously, but could have). so none of the politicians wanted to go on the record as saying they supported putting kids in harms way there, but they’re all livid that trump, who campaigned specifically on the issue of bringing troops home and won the election, is keeping his word.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

We were dealing with it with a minimum number of troops and the big hammer that we previously carried while speaking softly, not tweeting and folding like an unprepared idiot.


The legality of our involvement in the Syrian conflict is interesting on both an international and USA level. Sometimes we do stuff for what we believe in, regardless of international law.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

America 1st
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Keep believing our economy isn't interwoven to global markets, hope you don't get too much sand in your ears with your head stuck so far in the sand. What we do internationally is of key importance to our well being. If you were a parent of one of those men and women in Syria fighting Isis and this move allows 10,000 nuts loose to wreck havoc on the US again, you might be signing a different tune.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Keep believing our economy isn't interwoven to global markets.

who has ever said this?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

They were there to defeat Isis and 10,000 of those nuts are housed in make shift prisons, guarded by Kurds. Can you imagine being a soldier or commander stationed there, when the Kurds out of necessity abandon their guard duties to head to the front, allowing sleeper cells to break out their comrades. Trump is a simpleton and doesn't seek advice from anyone, this decision blindsided everyone and now if forced to walk it back; it's not going to help him politically. A phone call from Turkey, someone gives him the praise he so desperately needs and out we go, with the Russians poised to move from the other side.

"They were there to defeat Isis"

Which I believe they did. Months ago.

"10,000 of those nuts are housed in make shift prisons"

Lots of ways to deal with that.

"Can you imagine being a soldier or commander stationed there, when the Kurds out of necessity abandon their guard duties to head to the front, allowing sleeper cells to break out their comrades. Trump is a simpleton and doesn't seek advice from anyone"

It's not that simple. I'm trying to find the video, there was a Marine captain on TV last night, sayng any soldier would feel good about fighting ISIS in Syria, none of them would feel good sitting there waiting to get sucked into a regional conflict in which the US has no vital interests.

It's not necessarily that Trump isn't listehbing to anybody (though that's possible). It's that he's listening to people like Rand Paul and this Marine Captain, and all you hear on MSNBC and CNN is that the move is stupid. You don't hear from any thoughtful, caring people who are on Trumps side. Not on those stations. Only that Trump is evil.

"Debate" involves listening to thoughtful people on both sides, not just one side.

When Bush decided to double down in Iraq with the surge, he was called a neocon war monger.

When Obama pulled out of Iraq (possibly allowing the bad guys to eliminate gains we made), CNN and MSNBC said bringoing troops home was the right hting to do.

When Trump decides to being troops home, he's an idiot.

Soo it seems to me, the only consistency in terms of response and messaging, is that the Republican is always wrong, he democrat is always right.

Yeah, yeah, whataboutism. Yeah, yeah, Iraq and Syria aren't exactly the same.

I'm not saying I support Trumps decision or that I hate it. I don't know. I do like General Mattis and would tend to believe he's right more often than he's wrong, and he wanted to stay. But Bolton also wanted to stay, and he could care less how many Americans get killed there. I don't know.

WHat I am pretty sure of, is that much of this is political. If Hilary made the same decision, she'd be hailed as a genius.

[Pete F.]

Here is the number of troops in Syria per Trump.
However he typically has trouble with getting numbers correct.

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
1h
Fighting between various groups that has been going on for hundreds of years. USA should never have been in Middle East. Moved our 50 soldiers out. Turkey MUST take over captured ISIS fighters that Europe refused to have returned. The stupid endless wars, for us, are ending!

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Keep believing our economy isn't interwoven to global markets, hope you don't get too much sand in your ears with your head stuck so far in the sand. What we do internationally is of key importance to our well being. If you were a parent of one of those men and women in Syria fighting Isis and this move allows 10,000 nuts loose to wreck havoc on the US again, you might be signing a different tune.

The same people (not you, but news people and talking heads) making that same case now, sure weren't saying that when Obama pulled out of Iraq.

There's logic to what you say, there's a risk here. If the big concern is 10,000 ISIS prisoners, find a way to secure them. If the issue is protecting the Kurds from Turkey, that's not our problem to solve alone.

Where was the concern for the Kurds when Assad gassed them, blatantly ignoring Obama's red line?

[Pete F.]

Jim once again with But Hillary, I realize you, Faux and Trump still don't realize he won the election. Probably because he has never acted Presidential.

If you look further you will find that of the detainees 2K are Europeans, some still are Americans and nobody can figure out who is who and who did what sufficiently to convict them in a court. That includes us.

Kurds are Christians, Turks are Islamists and you have now seemingly changed sides from your evils of Islam position.

“Turkey has neither the intent, desire, nor capacity to manage 60k detainees in al Hol camp, which State and DoD IGs [inspector general] warn is the nucleus for a resurgent ISIS. Believing otherwise is a reckless gamble with our national security,” Brett McGurk, Trump’s former envoy for the fight against ISIS, tweeted.