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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi: |
05-29-2020, 08:34 AM
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#1
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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One year ago today
“If we had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said that.”
Those who say Mueller found no collusion between Tweety and Russia are wrong. Mueller found no conspiracy, but facts amount to collusion — Tweety knew about Russian interference, welcomed the help, and used it for campaign messaging.
This needs to be said again and again. Collusion is secret coordination to achieve a mutually beneficial outcome. It describes behavior.
Conspiracy is an agreement between two or more people to commit a crime. It is a legal definition.
They aren’t the same, and #1 is still bad
Don't forget that there are things explosive enough in the huge swaths of the Mueller Report that remain redacted that Tweety and DOJ are willing to go all the way to SCOTUS to keep them hidden.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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05-29-2020, 08:44 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
“If we had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said that.”
Those who say Mueller found no collusion between Tweety and Russia are wrong. Mueller found no conspiracy, but facts amount to collusion — Tweety knew about Russian interference, welcomed the help, and used it for campaign messaging.
This needs to be said again and again. Collusion is secret coordination to achieve a mutually beneficial outcome. It describes behavior.
Conspiracy is an agreement between two or more people to commit a crime. It is a legal definition.
They aren’t the same, and #1 is still bad
Don't forget that there are things explosive enough in the huge swaths of the Mueller Report that remain redacted that Tweety and DOJ are willing to go all the way to SCOTUS to keep them hidden.
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thanks for reminding us of your disappointment one year ago.... ...one year later...still no collusion nor conspiracy ...maybe next year...put it on your calendar
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05-30-2020, 12:07 AM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
thanks for reminding us of your disappointment one year ago.... ...one year later...still no collusion nor conspiracy ...maybe next year...put it on your calendar
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There WAS a conspiracy. And it was concocted so expertly, that it would take some group or groups who's profession is the exposing or creating of meticulous conspiracy narratives--professionals, such as the CIA or the FBI--to create the scenarios so realistically that they still grip the minds of those who hate Trump. They keep clinging to the phony but masterfully fabricated story-- even as the fake conspiracy is unravelling before our eyes, people like PeteF have the story so well planted in their heads that they continue to view the deception as unquestionable reality.
They can't let it go. Probably have too much personal credibility invested in it. Might be devastating to their psyche to realize that they have been so thoroughly duped. May always continue to believe no matter what evidence is exposed or what conclusions are made.
Last edited by The Dad Fisherman; 05-30-2020 at 07:34 AM..
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05-30-2020, 03:18 AM
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#4
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Do I have your conspiracy theory right?
Four years ago, there was a global conspiracy—comprised of President Obama, Vice President Biden, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, FBI Director Jim Comey, much of the FBI, the DNC, a company called CrowdStrike, multiple foreign intelligence services, and Ukrainian oligarchs—to undermine Donald Trump by planting a phony conspiracy theory that he was colluding with the Russians to win the 2016 election. These deep state operators framed several top Trump officials, fabricated evidence, and spied on the campaign with the end goal of committing the biggest fraud in American history in order to derail Trump.
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05-30-2020, 06:24 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Funny how this makes sense to Bitchslappedboy
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PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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05-30-2020, 07:58 AM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Do I have your conspiracy theory right?
Four years ago, there was a global conspiracy—comprised of President Obama, Vice President Biden, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, FBI Director Jim Comey, much of the FBI, the DNC, a company called CrowdStrike, multiple foreign intelligence services, and Ukrainian oligarchs—to undermine Donald Trump by planting a phony conspiracy theory that he was colluding with the Russians to win the 2016 election. These deep state operators framed several top Trump officials, fabricated evidence, and spied on the campaign with the end goal of committing the biggest fraud in American history in order to derail Trump.
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Details unfold. You know, as you've reminded us about how the truth about Trump was coming out--drip, drip, drip . . .
Not my theory. Probably not as elaborately "global" as you postulate. Probably localized to a small group who used global resources, among their own, fictitious or otherwise. Probably developed in time and necessity, one thing leading to another. Probably turned into cover-up (CYA). Probably turned into the phony cause for impeachment, driven by political operatives such as Adam Schiff.
You don't hear that much from Schiffty lately. In his glorious House Investigation and impeachment days, he was daily in the news spouting such nonsense such as him having clear evidence of Trump collusion. After the House interviews were declassified and revealed that under oath all the players who had claimed to know that Trump colluded, actually admitted during their interviews with Schiffty that there wasn't any evidence that Trump did.
Schiffty has been rather quiet lately.
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05-30-2020, 08:44 AM
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#7
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch
Details unfold. You know, as you've reminded us about how the truth about Trump was coming out--drip, drip, drip . . .
Probably
Probably localized
Probably developed
Probably turned
Probably turned
Schiffty has been rather quiet lately.
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You have a lot of probably going on, always a good basis for a conspiracy theory.
Here’s Schiff’s recent statement
Here’s what the Flynn transcripts show:
Gen. Flynn secretly discussed the U.S. response to Russia’s brazen election interference, and lied about it to the FBI and Vice President.
No wonder Trump and his allies are trying to re-write history,
Because the facts are so damning.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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05-30-2020, 10:37 AM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
You have a lot of probably going on, always a good basis for a conspiracy theory.
Yeah, I admit that, unlike you, I don't write as if I KNOW. I'm just, as you actually do, conjecturing. As I say, its not my theory. Certainly, the evidence for the conspiracy theory that Trump conspired with Russia is total conjecture by those who admitted under oath that there was no evidence that he did.
Here’s Schiff’s recent statement
Maybe you forgot to show Schiff's statement?
Is this what you were referring to: from The Hill "facing the release of these transcripts, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) bizarrely maintained that 'Flynn posed a severe counterintelligence risk' because he could be blackmailed over his false statement."
"Putting aside the lack of prior evidence of criminality, Schiff ignores that there were transcripts to prevent such blackmail. Indeed, in the interview, Flynn indicated he assumed there was a transcript, and leaked media reports indicated that various officials were familiar with the content of the calls. The key to blackmail would have been for the Russians to have information that others did not have."
Here’s what the Flynn transcripts show:
Gen. Flynn secretly discussed the U.S. response to Russia’s brazen election interference, and lied about it to the FBI and Vice President.
From The Hill by Jonathan Turley: "The newly released transcripts of Flynn's calls are deeply disturbing - not for their evidence of criminality or collusion but for the total absence of such evidence. The transcripts, declassified Friday, strongly support new investigations by both the Justice Department and by Congress, starting with next week's Senate testimony by former Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. It turns out Flynn's calls are not just predictable but even commendable at points.
No wonder Trump and his allies are trying to re-write history,
Because the facts are so damning.
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The facts are (again from The Hill): "The newly released transcripts reveal the lack of a foundation for that charge [the false statement]. Courts have held that the materiality requirement for such a charge requires that misstatements be linked to the particular 'subject of the investigation.' The Justice Department found that the false statement in February 2017 was not material 'to any viable counterintelligence investigation - or any investigation, for that matter - initiated by the FBI.' In other words, by that time, these FBI officials had no crime under investigation but were, instead, looking for a crime. The question is: Why?
"So the transcripts confirm there never was a scintilla of criminal conduct or evidence of collusion against Flynn before or during these calls. Indeed, there was no viable criminal investigation to speak of when Comey sent 'a couple guys over' to entrap Flynn; they already had the transcripts and the knowledge that Flynn had done nothing wrong."
Is this the history that you claim is being re-written (from The Hill):"The real question is why the FBI continued to investigate Flynn in the absence of any crime or evidence of collusion. In December 2016, investigators had found no evidence of any crime by Flynn. They wanted to shut down the investigation; they were overruled by superiors, including FBI special agent Peter Strzok, Deputy Director Andrew McCabe and Director James Comey. Strzok told the investigators to keep the case alive, and McCabe is described as 'cutting #^&#^&#^&#^&' another high-ranking official who questioned the basis for continuing to investigate Flynn. All three officials were later fired, and all three were later found by career officials to have engaged in serious misconduct as part of the Russia investigation.
"Recently disclosed information revealed that Comey and President Obama discussed using the Logan Act as a pretense for a criminal charge. The Logan Act criminalizes private negotiations with foreign governments; it is widely viewed as unconstitutional and has never been used successfully against any U.S. citizen since the earliest days of the Republic. Its use against the incoming national security adviser would have been absurd. Yet, that unconstitutional crime was the only crime Comey could come up with, long before there was a false statement by Flynn regarding his calls.
"Not until February 2017 did Comey circumvent long-standing protocols and order an interview with Flynn. Comey later bragged that he 'probably wouldn't have ... gotten away with it' in other administrations, but he sent 'a couple guys over' to question Flynn, who was settling into his new office as national security adviser. We learned recently that Strzok discussed trying to get Flynn to give false or misleading information in that interview, to enable a criminal charge, and that FBI lawyer Lisa Page suggested agents 'just casually slip' in a reference to the criminal provision for lying and then get Flynn to slip up on the details.
"Flynn did slip up. While investigators said they were not convinced he intentionally lied, he gave a false statement. Later, special counsel Robert Mueller charged Flynn with that false statement, to pressure him into cooperating; Flynn fought the case into virtual bankruptcy but agreed to plead guilty when Mueller threatened to prosecute his son, too."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=uxbndlbing
Last edited by detbuch; 05-30-2020 at 04:35 PM..
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05-31-2020, 05:16 AM
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#9
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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“What is most scandalous and damning in these transcripts is what Flynn did not say.
“At no point does Flynn castigate Kislyak for Russia’s intervention in the 2016 election. He does not confront the Russian ambassador for Putin’s covert operation to subvert American democracy.
Because he has no problem with that
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05-31-2020, 05:33 AM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
“What is most scandalous and damning in these transcripts is what Flynn did not say.
“At no point does Flynn castigate Kislyak for Russia’s intervention in the 2016 election. He does not confront the Russian ambassador for Putin’s covert operation to subvert American democracy.
Because he has no problem with that
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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ooooh....maybe they should charge him for what he did not say?!
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05-31-2020, 07:52 AM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Scandalous
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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05-31-2020, 10:07 AM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
ooooh....maybe they should charge him for what he did not say?!
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Doesn't seem like Pete understands how ridiculous it is to claim that it's scandalous not to confront the Russian Ambassador over Putin's covert action. The whole purpose for the call was to diplomatically try to keep the Russians from overreacting and escalating the tit for tat over Obama's expulsions and sanctions. CONFRONTING Kislyak, rather than diplomatically and rationally suggesting an even handed response as Flynn did, could well provoke the very escalation he was trying to avoid.
Flynn's call was not illegal or treasonous, nor even "scandalous." It was a good and proper call.
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05-31-2020, 11:05 AM
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#13
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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You have previously made various pro election interference statements, and didn’t read the Mueller report.
Just keep believing in Putin’s Puppet
He’s back helping him today.
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05-31-2020, 11:11 AM
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#14
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
ooooh....maybe they should charge him for what he did not say?!
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Maybe there was cause to investigate Tweety’s campaign’s involvement with Russia.
“Probably” they knew that Tweety was lying about having no “deals” in Russia, the financial entanglement with oligarchs, etc.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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05-31-2020, 01:41 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
You have previously made various pro election interference statements,
Yeah, and you've made anti election interference statements. So what?
and didn’t read the Mueller report.
I've read all of your excerpts and comments on it (and more). I've made successful arguments against what you've said about it. I've pointed out that it (garnered from what you pointed out and more) did not, even in Mueller's own words, support a conviction of Trump for conspiring with Russia/Putin, nor did it prove obstruction of justice. I recall there were ten or so specific items in the report that might suggest obstruction, but that they could just as well be interpreted differently as suggestive of other motives. And that it was noted, either in the report or elsewhere that such was the case and that much of what might have been considered obstructive action could merely have been fighting back at what Trump knew to be false accusations against him.
Further, even though I, admittedly, conjectured about details of the conspiracy theory that Trump conspired with Russia, I did say, unequivocally, that there was such a conspiracy. And I admit that it has not yet been finally and totally proved. But from what is known, at least by sources that you are either unaware of or simply just dismiss, I BELIEVE, as fervently as you seem to KNOW otherwise, that not only is/was there (obviously) a conspiracy theory that Trump did conspire with Russia, but that it was a deliberately contrived hoax.
And that the Mueller investigation was an attempt to make the hoax and all of its investigatory elements (Fisa Warrant, spying on Trump, etc.) look plausible and legitimate (if they could not somehow come up with real proof) because they knew that existing documentation would prove there was never any evidence or reason to start the investigation in the first place, and, even while concluding that there was not "sufficient" evidence, the report would still cast suspicion on some Trump misdoing, such as obstruction--without even proving that.
So, yeah, that I didn't read the entire Mueller report, is not a negative for me, since I think it was a dishonest endeavor to begin with. That investigation continued long after it was known by the investigators that there was no evidence of Trump or his organization conspiring with the Russians.
The fact that you've read the entire report, yet cant show how anything in it proves a Trump conspiracy, but just details circumstantial and innuendo driven "evidence," is proof enough for me that you WANT to absolutely know that Trump is guilty. And I believe that you want to know Trump is guilty of any criminal charges or theories against him because you hate him both as a person and as a threat to what you believe we are as a nation.
Just keep believing in Putin’s Puppet
He’s back helping him today.
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Yeah, I'll keep believing--that you've been willingly duped.
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06-01-2020, 10:07 AM
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#16
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch
Yeah, I'll keep believing--that you've been willingly duped.
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Me and the rest of the G7 other than Tweety.
Any push by Donald Trump to readmit Russia to the G7 gathering of economically advanced nations would be vetoed by the U.K., Boris Johnson's official spokesperson said Monday.
Speaking to journalists at a daily briefing, Johnson's spokesperson said that while it was up to host nations to decide which countries could be invited as guests, the U.K. would not support Russia being "readmitted as a member of the group.”
Decisions on G7 membership are subject to the unanimous backing of all members. Russia was ejected from the group — previously the G8 — after its annexation of Crimea in 2014.
Johnson's spokesperson said the U.K. would not support Russia's return to the G7 fold "unless it ceases aggressive and destabilizing activity that threatens the safety of U.K. citizens and the collective security of our allies," adding: "We are yet to see evidence of changed behavior.”
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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06-01-2020, 10:40 AM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Me and the rest of the G7 other than Tweety.
Any push by Donald Trump to readmit Russia to the G7 gathering of economically advanced nations would be vetoed by the U.K., Boris Johnson's official spokesperson said Monday.
Speaking to journalists at a daily briefing, Johnson's spokesperson said that while it was up to host nations to decide which countries could be invited as guests, the U.K. would not support Russia being "readmitted as a member of the group.”
Decisions on G7 membership are subject to the unanimous backing of all members. Russia was ejected from the group — previously the G8 — after its annexation of Crimea in 2014.
Johnson's spokesperson said the U.K. would not support Russia's return to the G7 fold "unless it ceases aggressive and destabilizing activity that threatens the safety of U.K. citizens and the collective security of our allies," adding: "We are yet to see evidence of changed behavior.”
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Then, if the rest of the G7 other than Tweety believe Tweety is in cahoots with Putin, then they should kick the U.S. out of the G's and make it the G6 plus PeteF.
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06-01-2020, 10:50 AM
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#18
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Tweety is trying his best to suck up to Putin before he gets voted out of office in November.
Can't endanger Tweety's funding source and he'll need a safe haven after the NYS AG charges him.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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06-01-2020, 11:13 AM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Tweety is trying his best to suck up to Putin before he gets voted out of office in November.
Can't endanger Tweety's funding source and he'll need a safe haven after the NYS AG charges him.
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Yeah . . . yeah . . . yeah . . . Trump has to bank on Putin. Putin can save him. Really? How?
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06-01-2020, 11:26 AM
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#20
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Got some new orders today
The Kremlin has confirmed Pres Trump and Putin spoke today, per Reuters
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06-01-2020, 12:11 PM
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Got some new orders today
The Kremlin has confirmed Pres Trump and Putin spoke today, per Reuters
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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No doubt Trump asked Putin for some help in silencing intractable and unreasonable critics (such as PeteF). The Russkies have effective ways of producing various "accidents" or unusual poisonings of people worldwide. You might want to be careful. Just sayin'
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06-01-2020, 12:31 PM
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#22
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch
No doubt Trump asked Putin for some help in silencing intractable and unreasonable critics (such as PeteF). The Russkies have effective ways of producing various "accidents" or unusual poisonings of people worldwide. You might want to be careful. Just sayin'
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Are you saying I could end up like Epstein?
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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06-01-2020, 12:57 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Are you saying I could end up like Epstein?
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I don't know man . . . you know . . . like you have a big mouth . . . and thugs and killers like Trump and Putin only put up with so much . . . Epstein . . . Hoffa . . . Khashoggi . . . you know . . . I mean Trump already killed a hundred thou . . . I mean you could go real easy . . . if they don't like you and want to make an example . . . they might put you through some stuff
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06-01-2020, 02:47 PM
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#24
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Some stuff is exactly how Tweety referred to what he wanted to happen to Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch. Too weak to deal with strong women.
Classy guy, your idea of an American hero.
The world is laughing at the weak, incompetent man hiding in the White House.
Russia says Tweety was reporting in
President Trump informed Russian President Vladimir Putin in a phone call of his suggestion to invite Russia to the upcoming G7 summit, the Kremlin says.
The Kremlin said the call was initiated by the US side.
Maybe Tweety was looking for Vlads advice on how to handle demonstrators, Will his next call be to another one of his great friends, Xi?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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06-01-2020, 03:50 PM
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Some stuff is exactly how Tweety referred to what he wanted to happen to Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch. Too weak to deal with strong women.
That's a lie. He has dealt with many strong women.
His wife is a very strong woman. And Yovanovitch is a liar like you.
Classy guy, your idea of an American hero.
That's a lie. I don't have some preconceived idea of an American hero. If I did, he would be nothing like you. You lie. You exaggerate. You pretend to know things that are not so. You weakly fall for fake news and phony conspiracy theories. You don't exhibit a consistent core principal (unless hating Trump could be considered a principle). You dodge questions. You change the subject when you don't have an answer. You put words in people's mouths. You paint false pictures of people. You daily spue out nasty, mocking, abusive, boringly repetitive invectives as an excuse for dialogue.
The world is laughing at the weak, incompetent man hiding in the White House. Russia says Tweety was reporting in. President Trump informed Russian President Vladimir Putin in a phone call of his suggestion to invite Russia to the upcoming G7 summit, the Kremlin says. The Kremlin said the call was initiated by the US side.
Maybe Tweety was looking for Vlads advice on how to handle demonstrators, Will his next call be to another one of his great friends, Xi?
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More of your petty, vidictive, hateful, depictions--sick.
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06-01-2020, 06:05 PM
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#26
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Ledge Runner Baits
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: I live in a house, but my soul is at sea.
Posts: 8,456
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Records matter, in football, baseball and politics, not everyone gets into the hall of fame.
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06-01-2020, 06:17 PM
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Stripers
Records matter, in football, baseball and politics, not everyone gets into the hall of fame.
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Trump got into the hall of fame in raising the economy more than most other Presidents.
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06-01-2020, 06:19 PM
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#28
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Ledge Runner Baits
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: I live in a house, but my soul is at sea.
Posts: 8,456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch
Trump got into the hall of fame in raising the economy more than most other Presidents.
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Coat tail economy he should be proud.
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06-01-2020, 07:42 PM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Stripers
Coat tail economy he should be proud.
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The tail is on his own coat. He should be proud. And he made the hall of fame.
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06-01-2020, 08:12 PM
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#30
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch
More of your petty, vidictive, hateful, depictions--sick.
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Silly Tweety fluffer, he’s a con man, always has been, always will be.
He has never read the Constitution, has no idea what rights citizens have. He has no more of an understanding of the Bible than he does of the Constitution, but he knows how to manipulate his base.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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