Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

     

Left Nav S-B Home Register FAQ Members List S-B on Facebook Arcade WEAX Tides Buoys Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Right Nav

Left Container Right Container
 

Go Back   Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating » Striper Chat - Discuss stuff other than fishing ~ The Scuppers and Political talk » Political Threads

Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

 
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-06-2010, 09:51 AM   #91
RIROCKHOUND
Also known as OAK
iTrader: (0)
 
RIROCKHOUND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Westlery, RI
Posts: 10,349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
Wow. I'm an actuary, which is one of the few professions that demands greater quantitative skills than an accountant.I'm glad you are not my accountant.You need a refresher course. I'm sure you can find some continuing ed seminar somewhere...when you get your next issue of Pravda or "The Daily Worker", check the classifieds...
Wow. you just played the I'm smarter than you card. I think that's the first blatant use of it here in the PF. Usually it is just veiled a bit more than that...

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
RIROCKHOUND is offline  
Old 11-06-2010, 10:25 AM   #92
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
So when the cuts expire, meaning tax rates increase, you think tax revenues will go down? I'm not saying I disagree with you, I'm just suprised to hear that...
See addendum in previous post.

Quote:
You leave the public with more money, more money will be spent or invested, stimulating the economy. How can that fail to occur? People aren't going to put extra money in their mattress.
Sure they will. Household savings are way up and I'd think that a lot of this is in cash or safe low yield investments. It might as well be in the mattress.

Obviously people can't spend if they don't have any money, but what they do with it and the time of the benefits isn't an easy equation.

Quote:
Maybe. Or maybe they will use that money to expand businesses. It's not fair, but people at the top are the ones who drive the economy and create wealth opportunities for many others. I can't say that's "fair", but it's reality. When Clinton slashed capital gains taxes, the rich invested a lot more money, because it was more lucrative for them to do so. That's what primes the pump. Well, one of the things that primes the pump.
The point I made above is that big business already has a lot of cash but isn't expanding for other reasons. If it's uncertainly or just a more realistic picture of our economic picture I'm not sure...probably a factor of both.

Quote:
Because Obama and the current congress are implementing a liberal agenda, which is spend, spend, spend...
The agenda isn't to spend, it's to provide beneficial services in a manner deemed to be most effective. Both Democrats and Republicans seem to like to spend while at the same time they argue over what's most effective and or constitutionally appropriate.

Don't see a lot of difference between the two in practice.

Quote:
When a candidate like Sean Bielat has the courage to say, for example, we have to cut medicare and social security, the media says that Bielat doesn't care about seniors. That's how that gets played. There is a massive disincentive for politicians to tell the truth during campaigns.
Seniors have a reasonable expectation of necessary benefits from a system they paid into. Just simply stating you must cut isn't a solution to the problem, which is really the point. How do you apply conservative thinking to transform the system rather than just bitch about how good things would be if liberal ideas never existed.

Ultimately, it's probably more a matter of good management over ideology.

Quote:
Gov Christie, in NJ, is standing up to the state unions and making massive cuts. He's making a lot of people unhappy, but he's doing what clearly has to be done. We need more like him.
Agree you have to play hardball with the unions as they are very effective in using centralized power.

-spence
spence is offline  
Old 11-06-2010, 10:49 AM   #93
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND View Post
Wow. you just played the I'm smarter than you card....
yeah, that's Spence's forte...this could mean war
scottw is offline  
Old 11-06-2010, 10:53 AM   #94
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
how do you always end up at the same, predictable dead end?
The one trying to make this a kinder, gentler place?
PaulS is offline  
Old 11-06-2010, 10:58 AM   #95
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
The one trying to make this a kinder, gentler place?
[QUOTE=PaulS;808553]"See you have no credibility.

It must suck to have so much hate"QUOTE


great strategy
scottw is offline  
Old 11-06-2010, 11:08 AM   #96
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by stcroixman View Post
We all know the tax code favors those with wealth.

?
How can you say that? When something like 35% of the population pays nothing, and others pay 10% federal tax, and those at the top pay 35%, how does that favor the rich?

I believe in a progressive tax system, I believe the wealthiest SHOULD of course pay more, and in our current system, they do. If our system gets any more progressive, we become an awful lot like socialist europe, and all of those countries are facing collapse.

I guess we just disagree, and I apologize for throwing my career choice in yoru face, that was uncalled for.
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 11-06-2010, 01:35 PM   #97
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,190
[QUOTE=scottw;808555]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
"See you have no credibility.

It must suck to have so much hate"QUOTE


great strategy
Yup, always directed at one individual (the one who made the broad outlandish statement).
PaulS is offline  
Old 11-06-2010, 01:42 PM   #98
RIROCKHOUND
Also known as OAK
iTrader: (0)
 
RIROCKHOUND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Westlery, RI
Posts: 10,349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
How can you say that? When something like 35% of the population pays nothing, and others pay 10% federal tax, and those at the top pay 35%, how does that favor the rich?

I believe in a progressive tax system, I believe the wealthiest SHOULD of course pay more, and in our current system, they do. If our system gets any more progressive, we become an awful lot like socialist europe, and all of those countries are facing collapse.

I guess we just disagree, and I apologize for throwing my career choice in yoru face, that was uncalled for.
But then there is a drop off, right? Like the ubber rich (I forget the number, 100's of millions?) who make a majority of their money as hedge fund manager, who pay capital gains rather than income on a lot if it. I heard Robert Riech talking about the drop off.

Are we also still WELL below the % (I think, I'm not a CPA or Actuary) of tax from pre-Clinton? (including the Regan years that had a higher tax % even without the Bush tax 'cuts'?) I thought I remember hearing in the same piece that in the 50's the tax % was over 50% for upper income, so it seems we've come a long way to benefit everyone, including the upper 1% of the population, no?

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
RIROCKHOUND is offline  
Old 11-08-2010, 03:50 PM   #99
JohnnyD
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
JohnnyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 5,238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
Wow. I'm an actuary, which is one of the few professions that demands greater quantitative skills than an accountant.
Ahh... there it is. That self-defining pretentious attitude I encountered during my years living in CT from Connecticut residents who graduated from UConn.




Hunted trout all weekend... gotta catch up on the nonsense in here.
JohnnyD is offline  
Old 11-08-2010, 04:04 PM   #100
fishbones
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
 
fishbones's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Easton, MA
Posts: 5,735
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
Ahh... there it is. That self-defining pretentious attitude I encountered during my years living in CT from Connecticut residents who graduated from UConn.




Hunted trout all weekend... gotta catch up on the nonsense in here.

Seems to me that he's pointing out what he does for a living to explain his point. I'd consider an actuary a subject matter expert when it comes to tax discussions.

Do you think RIRockhound is being pretentious when he's explaining things having to do with science? To me, he's an SME because of what he does for a living.

Conservatism is not about leaving people behind. Conservatism is about empowering people to catch up, to give them tools at their disposal that make it possible for them to access all the hope, all the promise, all the opportunity that America offers. - Marco Rubio
fishbones is offline  
Old 11-08-2010, 04:15 PM   #101
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbones View Post
Seems to me that he's pointing out what he does for a living to explain his point. I'd consider an actuary a subject matter expert when it comes to tax discussions.
But don't you think he lost all credibilty when he started out with

"Over the last few years, I have heard every single Democrat, and everyone in the Media....."

As soon as I hear "every single" anything and I know its not true, I tend to tune that person out.

Sorry, but I hate "SME".
PaulS is offline  
Old 11-08-2010, 04:30 PM   #102
fishbones
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
 
fishbones's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Easton, MA
Posts: 5,735
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
But don't you think he lost all credibilty when he started out with

"Over the last few years, I have heard every single Democrat, and everyone in the Media....."

As soon as I hear "every single" anything and I know its not true, I tend to tune that person out.

Sorry, but I hate "SME".

No, he didn't lose credibility with me. I understand when someone uses a statement like that which although is hyperbole, it's not expected to be taken literally.

I don't blame you for hating SME's. Experts can be annoying when they know more about a topic than you.

Conservatism is not about leaving people behind. Conservatism is about empowering people to catch up, to give them tools at their disposal that make it possible for them to access all the hope, all the promise, all the opportunity that America offers. - Marco Rubio
fishbones is offline  
Old 11-08-2010, 07:45 PM   #103
JohnnyD
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
JohnnyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 5,238
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbones View Post
Seems to me that he's pointing out what he does for a living to explain his point. I'd consider an actuary a subject matter expert when it comes to tax discussions.

Do you think RIRockhound is being pretentious when he's explaining things having to do with science? To me, he's an SME because of what he does for a living.
There's a whole lot of ribbing that goes on around here as we bust each other's chops. However, RIRockhound doesn't try to lift himself up by demeaning another person's career throwing out comments like "You need a refresher course. I'm sure you can find some continuing ed seminar somewhere...when you get your next issue of Pravda or "The Daily Worker", check the classifieds... ", and if so, I've missed them.

Last edited by JohnnyD; 11-08-2010 at 07:57 PM..
JohnnyD is offline  
Old 11-08-2010, 08:08 PM   #104
stcroixman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Warwick
Posts: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
Wow. I'm an actuary, which is one of the few professions that demands greater quantitative skills than an accountant.

In my first post, I said that if your tax rate decreases from 15 percent to 10 percent, that's a 33% decrease in your tax obligation.

You disagreed.

I was right. You were wrong. You see, "10" is a number that is exactly 33.33 percent less than "15".

I'm glad you are not my accountant.



You need a refresher course. I'm sure you can find some continuing ed seminar somewhere...when you get your next issue of Pravda or "The Daily Worker", check the classifieds...
my final comment:

Jim if you are such a tax expert why do you need an accountant? Obviously you are an internet tax expert.

I I want an opinion on a DB plan's unfunded obligation or whatever you call it - then you'll get a call.
stcroixman is offline  
Old 11-09-2010, 05:53 AM   #105
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
There's a whole lot of ribbing that goes on around here as we bust each other's chops. no, there are many here that LOVE to take their own shots and then whine indignant when responded to in kind, and particularly when shown to be wrong...this is a good example However, RIRockhound doesn't try to lift himself up by demeaning another person's career throwing out comments like "You need a refresher course. I'm sure you can find some continuing ed seminar somewhere...when you get your next issue of Pravda or "The Daily Worker", check the classifieds... ", and if so, I've missed them.
actually it's Spence that throws the "Brian is a scientist so he can't be wrong" thing in you face...not so much recently given the state of the global warming debate....ahhhhh...climate change.......ehhhhh......ummmmm......errrrrr....no oooo....wait for it........YES....the new and improved term to scam the planet...GLOBAL CLIMATE DISRUPTION...we'll try that for a while and see if it catches on

hope it fares better than "man caused disasters"...a term that most aptly describes Obama

Jim, don't worry about these clowns, when they start insulting you at the end of an argument it means they lost miserably on substance and they hope you'll go away so you won't be around to continue to prove them wrong...note that the quality of the insults were pretty pathetic and unintelligible in JD's case...which isn't unusual

it's a little sad that you even have to explain some of these things

Last edited by scottw; 11-09-2010 at 06:10 AM..
scottw is offline  
Old 11-09-2010, 11:35 AM   #106
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
Jim, don't worry about these clowns, when they start insulting you at the end of an argument it means they lost miserably on substance and they hope you'll go away
Thanks, that's usually how I take it.

I can be smug too, and I need to work on it, because it takes away from the dialogue. I just got pretty frustrated when a CPA tried to pull, WHAT I THOUGHT WAS, some numeric "slight-of-hand" on me. Posting my profession wasn't bragging (being a number cruncher isn't exactly a line I use at singles bars), I said that to establish that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to math, finance, and statistics.

I concede that not "every single democrat" said the cuts only benefitted the rich. I was using hyperbole to illustrate the point, and only one or two of you took that literally.
Jim in CT is offline  
Old 11-09-2010, 11:51 AM   #107
RIJIMMY
sick of bluefish
iTrader: (1)
 
RIJIMMY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
they only took it literally because there was no other argument they could make.

making s-b.com a kinder, gentler place for all
RIJIMMY is offline  
Old 11-09-2010, 12:47 PM   #108
buckman
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
buckman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 4,834
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbones View Post
.

Do you think RIRockhound is being pretentious when he's explaining things having to do with science?
Yes
buckman is offline  
Old 11-09-2010, 12:55 PM   #109
RIJIMMY
sick of bluefish
iTrader: (1)
 
RIJIMMY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman View Post
Yes
I pick up a rock and throw it in the water, it sinks. Is there really anything more we need to know about geology?
The stone age has been over for 5000+ years!

making s-b.com a kinder, gentler place for all
RIJIMMY is offline  
Old 11-09-2010, 12:58 PM   #110
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman View Post
Yes
that'll get you put on his ignore list...he's very sensitive...and clairvoyant
scottw is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Please use all necessary and proper safety precautions. STAY SAFE Striper Talk Forums
Copyright 1998-20012 Striped-Bass.com