Is this true??

[PaulS]

I don't post nearly the amount of times you do and aren't nearly as insulting but if you think I am, so be it. So keep referring to Hillary as a c*nt and the FCOTUS and our Pres as a POS. That says more about you than anything I can ever write.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Of course, it's all race, right?

Carson is running on his personal narrative and character. Being a brain surgeon doesn't provide a lot of direct executive experience. I am not saying he is not qualified, but at best, he has been loose with facts on this narrative.



**Caveat added to every post I make on this election: And yes Jim, Hillary lied about the sniper file to conflate things as well. Yes she probably knew Bill was having affair. Her story sucks as well. It bothers me that all around these are the best we have to offer.

Can't imagine who you're going to vote for
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

OK, everyone thinks Carson is a liar because he used the word "scholarship", and that doesn't apply to the military academies.

Here is a poster that Dr Carson put on his website. It is a West Point recruiting poster.

In the lower right-hand corner, highlighted in yellow, West Point explicitly says it offers "scholarships".

So if Carson uses the word that's on the West Point recruiting poster for Christs' sake, he i ssomehow lying? That's the textbook definition of yellow journalism.

[spence]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I don't post nearly the amount of times you do and aren't nearly as insulting but if you think I am, so be it. So keep referring to Hillary as a c*nt and the FCOTUS and our Pres as a POS. That says more about you than anything I can ever write.

Considering Jim's a devout Catholic I always assume the "C" stood for Christian?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Of course, it's all race, right?

Carson is running on his personal narrative and character. Being a brain surgeon doesn't provide a lot of direct executive experience. I am not saying he is not qualified, but at best, he has been loose with facts on this narrative.



**Caveat added to every post I make on this election: And yes Jim, Hillary lied about the sniper file to conflate things as well. Yes she probably knew Bill was having affair. Her story sucks as well. It bothers me that all around these are the best we have to offer.

"Of course, it's all race, right?"

If he wasn't black, the left wouldn't be this hellbent on destroying him. Ask Clarence Thomas how much Democrats like black people.

"Being a brain surgeon doesn't provide a lot of direct executive experience"

How about being chief of a department at John
's Hopkins? How about being of the Board Of Directors of Costco?

Hilary has executive experience, and she sucked at it. So is failing as an executive, suprerior to someone with less executive experience? By what logic is a proven failure superior to an outsider?

"at best[/B], he has been loose with facts on this narrative. "

Agreed. And Hilary, on the other hand, is a PROVEN liar, which cannot be denied. There is video evidence that debunks her bragging about coming under sniper fire. So I ask again, by what logic is an irrefutabke liar morally superior to someone who is "loose" with some facts?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Considering Jim's a devout Catholic I always assume the "C" stood for Christian?

You know what else I am? Someone who answers your questions, and admits the many times you have a point.

One simple, fair, pertinent question. And you won't go near it. Because you can';t, because that question shows pure hypocrisy.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You know what else I am? Someone who answers your questions, and admits the many times you have a point.

One simple, fair, pertinent question. And you won't go near it. Because you can';t, because that question shows pure hypocrisy.

No, I ignore it because we've covered the subject before...it's old news.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

OK, everyone thinks Carson is a liar because he used the word "scholarship", and that doesn't apply to the military academies.

Here is a poster that Dr Carson put on his website. It is a West Point recruiting poster.

In the lower right-hand corner, highlighted in yellow, West Point explicitly says it offers "scholarships".

So if Carson uses the word that's on the West Point recruiting poster for Christs' sake, he i ssomehow lying? That's the textbook definition of yellow journalism.

It really has nothing to do with the use of the word. It is that he has stated he talked to Westmoreland - who was not even at the event and thus would not have offered him a "scholarship". Most importantly there is a process to get into WP. A congressman/senator would have had to nominate him, then there are many other requirements he would have had to be tested for (weight, eye sight, fitness, height, academic achievement, etc.). You won't get admitted until you qualify/pass all those things. None of that took place.

This is not yellow journalism - it is good journalism.

[scottw]

this is from the DailyKos..no right wing rag

"We do know, from the Politico article, that General Westmoreland visited Detroit in February of that year.

There are, however, several reports of an event in February of that year, similar to the one Carson described. Then, Westmoreland was the featured guest at a 1,500-person banquet to celebrate Medal of Honor recipient Dwight Johnson. The event drew prominent guests, including the governor at the time, the mayor of Detroit, the president of Ford Motor Company and nine previous Medal of Honor awardees, according to an Associated Press account of the event.

Carson, a leader of the city’s ROTC program at the time, may have been among the invited guests at the $10-a-plate event.

Dr. Carson could very well have met with General Westmoreland during either Sunday, May 25th, 1969 or during February 1969."


..regarding the "stabbing story" that was made up, Carson's Mom, Sonya, who is apparently also a liar confirmed the story back 1997 in a Parade Magazine interview on May 11, 1997 while watching the play depicting the his story in his book with the author of the article...

beyond the Manna dismissal that he made, I'm trying to figure out who is actually fabricating what here....

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by buckman

Can't imagine who you're going to vote for
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Not Carson, and not for the reasons in this thread. I disagree pretty strongly with his positions on social issues, foreign policy and climate.

If it is Hillary vs... I don't know what I'll do yet. Sorry Nebe, we won't be feeling the Bern on election day

[PaulS]

The Detroit news:

Carlisle, Pa. — Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson’s published account of having dinner with a top commander in the Vietnam War after marching in a Memorial Day parade in 1969 as a high school ROTC cadet in Detroit does not match historical records.

In Carson’s 1990 best-selling autobiography, “Gifted Hands: The Ben Carson Story,” the neurosurgeon tells of being offered a scholarship to West Point as a high school senior sometime after having dinner with the U.S. Army’s chief of staff, Gen. William Westmoreland, on Memorial Day 1969.

But Westmoreland’s personal schedule shows the general was not in Detroit on Memorial Day or during the days preceding and following the holiday. His schedule says he was in and around Washington, D.C., that weekend, according to Army archives The Detroit News reviewed Friday.

Carson’s compelling life story of escaping poverty in Detroit to become a world-renowned pediatric neurosurgeon is facing increased scrutiny as new polls show him at the top of the GOP presidential candidate field. It also comes a few days before Tuesday’s Republican presidential debate in Milwaukee.

Carson acknowledged Friday he never sought admission to West Point and was informally offered a scholarship that he later didn’t pursue.

“I interpreted it as an offer,” Carson said Friday night during a televised press conference from Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. “... I never said I received a full scholarship.”

In his autobiography, which was the basis of a movie about Carson’s life, Carson wrote that the dinner with Westmoreland took place after he “marched at the head of the Memorial Day parade.”

“I felt so proud, my chest bursting with ribbons and braids of every kind,” said Carson, who was a top ROTC cadet at Detroit’s former Southwestern High School.

Westmoreland’s Memorial Day schedule on May 30, 1969, indicates he was in Washington. The schedule says Westmoreland had a morning meeting with national security adviser Henry Kissinger, laid a wreath at an 11 a.m. memorial service in Arlington National Cemetery and had a 5 p.m. “boat ride on the Potomac.”

The Detroit News on Friday reviewed Westmoreland’s schedule for the dates in question among his official papers housed at the U.S. Army Heritage and Education Center in Carlisle, Pa.

The Army records and Detroit News archival records show Westmoreland was in Detroit on Feb. 18, 1969, for a dinner honoring a Vietnam War veteran. The banquet was for Congressional Medal of Honor winner Dwight Johnson, a Detroit African-American who risked his life “beyond the call of duty,” according to a website about black participation in the Vietnam War.

Carson spokesman Doug Watts could not immediately explain the discrepancies in Carson’s published account of meeting Westmoreland on Memorial Day 1969 and the general being in Washington that day.

“Dr. Carson was the top ROTC student in the city of Detroit,” Watts said in an email to The News. “In that role he was invited to meet General Westmoreland. He believes it was at a banquet. He can’t remember with specificity their brief conversation but it centered around Dr. Carson’s performance as ROTC City Executive Officer.”

[scottw]

so you're saying it's possible they met in Feb rather than May 45 years ago...


wait till they conclude he's been operating on brains all these years with phony diplomas

[spence]

I am getting a little tired of this historical dissection to be honest. Can't we take a look at Carson's policy insights instead?

Oh wait...

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by scottw

so you're saying it's possible they met in Feb rather than May 45 years ago...


wait till they conclude he's been operating on brains all these years with phony diplomas

I'm not saying anything - Carson said in his autobiography it was Memorial Day. He shouldn't get pissed at the press for questioning things that don't line up if he can't get his facts straight.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Not Carson, and not for the reasons in this thread. I disagree pretty strongly with his positions on social issues, foreign policy and climate.

If it is Hillary vs... I don't know what I'll do yet.

Exactly my feeling.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

No, I ignore it because we've covered the subject before...it's old news.

Jim: why is Hilary's lie meaningless, but Carson's honesty is important?

Spence: apples and oranges

That covers it, in your mind? Case closed, move on?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I'm not saying anything - Carson said in his autobiography it was Memorial Day. He shouldn't get pissed at the press for questioning things that don't line up if he can't get his facts straight.

you called it a lie...isn't it more likely he had the months wrong given the time lapse, the fact that Westmoreland was in Detroit at a dinner which seems to be what he described...and does it matter on which date it took place?

do you recall with specificity what you were doing in February or May of 1969

I realize that General Werstmoreland is no Bill Ayers, Rev. Wright, Rashid Khalidi or Frank Marshall Davis and Neurosurgery isn't quite Community Organizing and ROTC isn't quite puffing with the choom-choom gang...but can we get a grip??

[Fly Rod]

Originally Posted by spence

When did she say she never signed it?

Have they found a single piece of information she mishandled?

mishandled....of course
she said on the campaign trail that top secret info on her private website server, that it wasn't classified originally.....according what she signed(document) made her totally responsible for sensitive documents in her possession.....not going to go on and on about it.....the whole subject does not need 10 pages of rant...

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Spence: apples and oranges

it truly is apples if you're a democrat and oranges if you're a republican

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

It really has nothing to do with the use of the word. It is that he has stated he talked to Westmoreland - who was not even at the event and thus would not have offered him a "scholarship". Most importantly there is a process to get into WP. A congressman/senator would have had to nominate him, then there are many other requirements he would have had to be tested for (weight, eye sight, fitness, height, academic achievement, etc.). You won't get admitted until you qualify/pass all those things. None of that took place.

This is not yellow journalism - it is good journalism.

"It really has nothing to do with the use of the word"

That is a fair thing to say, and I agree. But many are focusing on the use of the work "scholarship" as evidence that he lied. In light of the fact that West Point uses that word, that accusation is insane.

Carson has never claimed that he applied. Never once that I can tell. If someone at West Point said to Carson "we'd love to have you, if you apply, you'll get accepted", and Carson describes that as being "offered a scholarship", is that really a dishonest statement?. He could have been more precise, but THAT'S a big deal? Really?

"This is not yellow journalism "

What's yellow journalism, is Politico claiming, in huge headlines, that Carson's camp admitted to fabricating the story. Carson's camp denies that anyone said that to Politico, and Politico removed that claim. Tell me that's not yellow journalism? Why woud Politico claim that Carson's team admitted the fabrication, then remove that claim, and not evenm apologize? You claim that's not yellow journalism? What was Politico's basis for stating that Carson's camp admitted the lie to them?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

it truly is apples if you're a democrat and oranges if you're a republican

More like donkeys and elephants.

Jeez! I don't have an issue with investigating honesty, but let's at least pretend that we do it consistently.

I really like Carson as a person, his life story is amazing, and I love what he did to Obama at that prayer breakfast. I won't vote for hinm in a primary (likely not anyway), but I'd vote for him in the general against Hilary.

I have trouble with anyone saying they would not have invaded Afghanistan after 9/11. Iraq is open for debate, but even the Pope said the Afghanistan war was morally justified.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by scottw

you called it a lie...isn't it more likely he had the months wrong given the time lapse, the fact that Westmoreland was in Detroit at a dinner which seems to be what he described...and does it matter on which date it took place?

do you recall with specificity what you were doing in February or May of 1969

I realize that General Werstmoreland is no Bill Ayers, Rashid Khalidi or Frank Marshall Davis and Neurosurgery isn't quite Community Organizing and ROTC isn't quite puffing with the choom-choom gang...but can we get a grip??

And can't you get a grip - his autobiography is wrong. I sure as heck would check my facts before putting something in my autobiography. He put down the wrong date (and stated it was afrer a Memorial day parade) and when questioned, accussed the press of lying. If he wasn't sure he should have just said it was in early 1999.

So if he had the wrong date, it is yellow journalism or good journalism when you check the facts?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

He put down the wrong date and when questioned, accussed the press of lying. ?

Paul, are you feeling OK, or not? The press DID LIE. Politico stated in a huge headline, that the Carson camp admitted fabricating the whole scholarship to them. What Carson challenged Politico on that, they immediately changed the headline, removed their assertion that anyone in the team admitted anything to them.

Politico lied about Carson's team admitting anything to them.

What don't you get about that?

Also, if checking these things is so inmportant, how come nobody lifted a finger to look into Obama's records? When Obama says "I am not releasing my records", the press said "fine". Those same folks who couldn't care less about Obama's grades, attacked John McCain for his grades, which he happily released.

You tell me if that's fair.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

.

If he wasn't sure he should have just said it was in early 1999.

which would also be a lie?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Politico lied about Carson's team admitting anything to them.

What don't you get about that?

apples and oranges

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

apples and oranges

It's turning into an Abbott and Costello routine.

No proof whatsoever that no one from West Point didn't encoyurage him to apply, stating he'd get in if he applied. Is it crazy to interpret that as an offer of a scholarship?

CNN claims they "proved" he was lying about his violent tendencies, because they asked a couple of people who knew him 50 years ago who didn't remember him being violent. Somehow, to CNN, that's sufficient proof that he was lying, because it didn't cross CNN's mind that perhaps some people know that detail, and others don't. After all, everyone in your life has the same exact detail of you rthoughts, as everyone else, right? There's nothing you tell you rbest friend that you don't tell everyone. That's journalism, boy!

They sure as hell don't want to ask him about his experiences with working tirelessy to save babies in the womb, so instead they go through hi sgarbage to dig up dirt on him. Meanwhile, Obama can choose not to release his academic records, and they all kiss his ring and move on.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by scottw

which would also be a lie?

Are you serious?

He should use the correct year. Was it 69?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Are you serious?

He should use the correct year. Was it 69?

you're the expert

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by scottw

you're the expert

wow. You're amazing.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

They sure as hell don't want to ask him about his experiences with working tirelessy to save babies in the womb, so instead they go through hi sgarbage to dig up dirt on him. Meanwhile, Obama can choose not to release his academic records, and they all kiss his ring and move on.

No, Carson has no policy experience and by all measures doesn't seem to have a lot of policy insight. His life story as it's been presented is the entire package. Now that he's being taken seriously by voters he's going to get the joys of living in the spotlight.