2016

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by basswipe

Pretty good,they're exactly where they were supposed to be...Syria.

I've never even met you and you're one of the smartest people I know and it blows my mind you could even question where those weapons came from and then subsequently went.

And what really kills me is the US is cleaning this mess up on taxpayer dollars.Replace the N in UN with an S and that's where the $ comes from.

Awe.. thanks Basswipe. Sure.. Saddam trucked it all out before we got there... but my point is that the whole weapons of mass destruction fiasco was nothing more than a coined term to push a crooked agenda. I forget the phrase that Himmler used to justify the Nazi conquest, but it goes something like " People will never catch on to your big lie if you feed them a bunch of little lies to distract them"..

Sure Democrats are not perfect and i am sure that as i get older i will follow winston churchill's advice- that when you are young, you are a liberal because you have a heart.. but as you get older you become a conservative because you have a brain.. That said, my brain catches a lot of BS on both sides. More so with the GOP....

[Nebe]

I was a bit wrong.. not Himmler, but Goebbels.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."
-- Joseph Goebbels, German Minister of Propaganda, 1933-1945

[Nebe]

And to end my rant.. fueled by Dales Pale Ale..... We are all duped by the greatest of the big lies.. that YOUR party represents YOU.. BS... Both parties represent Corporations first and foremost. This country has never been more divided politically, which in my opinion has been created by corporate owned media ( cable news networks). We are so distracted by proving which party is better that the Corporations, the 1% and who ever is really pulling the strings are laughing themselves to the bank.

Republicans and Democrats..are all bought and paid for. Corruption in the form of political donations and favors by lobbyists.

burp.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Nebe

And to end my rant.. fueled by Dales Pale Ale..... We are all duped by the greatest of the big lies.. that YOUR party represents YOU.. BS... Both parties represent Corporations first and foremost. This country has never been more divided politically, which in my opinion has been created by corporate owned media ( cable news networks). We are so distracted by proving which party is better that the Corporations, the 1% and who ever is really pulling the strings are laughing themselves to the bank.

Republicans and Democrats..are all bought and paid for. Corruption in the form of political donations and favors by lobbyists.

burp.

The growth in size and influence of corporations has been mirrored by that of the Federal government. They pretty much go hand in hand. It's difficult at times to know which drives who. But the ball mostly got rolling initially by government (with good intentions, of course). The rise of large corporations in the latter part of the 19th century was of two classes. There was the class of corporation that grew in size and wealth by competition. This was the class which was successful and had staying power. Members of this class were too successful for those whom it outclassed. They were mistakenly labeled "robber barons." The other class was fueled by government subsidy and regulation.

The so-called "robber barons" were not without fault, and benefited by some regulation, but they were mostly regulated against rather than for. They actually created the great surge of economic power which fueled America's rise as a force of world power. Their efforts had tremendous impact also on the rise in American's standard of living. But they were so well managed by sound economic principles and business innovation that it simply wasn't fair to others who couldn't keep up.

The other class of corporations needed government intervention on their behalf as well as government subsidies. Even with that they were not ultimately successful, and fell into the dust bin of forgotten history, except for some hangers on such as railroads which could not exist, as they are, without government subsidy. But that nexus between government and corporations, as well, eventually, between government and everything and everyone else, was maintained and flourishes now as crony capitalism and cradle to grave programs for everyone else (social and corporate welfare). Burton Folsom's book "The Myth of the Robber Barons" is a good read on the subject.

The "robber barons" were portrayed by journalists and activists of a social justice stripe as greedy self-serving rapists of society. In actuality, though they were sticklers for profit, they were generous to society not only in the wealth they created and spread, but as well by their private charitable contributions and foundations. They also funded libraries and educational institutions as well a many other things.

Being a freer country then, it was easier (though not easy) for entrepreneurs to create, compete, and contribute, than it is today. The connection with government is absolutely necessary to achieve the size and scope of the modern corporation. It may seem that corporations own the government, but government ultimately has the upper hand. The Federal Government has been loosed from its old constitutional limitations, and so long as it can convince the mass of voters that it acts in their interest, and that it will make those one percenters and the lesser "wealthy" pay "their fair share," it can wield too much power for corporations to do much other than lobby. So the pay-offs go both ways: corporations to government, and government favors (regulations/crony capitalism) to corporations. In the meantime, even though the government is supposedly working for the little guy, the income gap widens. One of those little details in the big picture that we should overlook. The big lie has it covered.

The system has evolved from a bottom up republic to a centralized top down fairly unitary State. The centralization of influence, economic and political, especially political, has grown and emerged into a symbiotic relationship. The so-called middle class is shrinking as power and money shifts to the top and those at the bottom are subsidized into dependence. As Spence would say, it has all become interwoven.

And we are told it is for our own good . No need to rant. That would be considered extreme. Enjoy your Dale's Pale. This is the best of all possible worlds. And if you see a crackpot Tea Partier passing by, give him the finger or throw the empty bottle in his direction.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by detbuch

The growth in size and influence of corporations has been mirrored by that of the Federal government. They pretty much go hand in hand. It's difficult at times to know which drives who. But the ball mostly got rolling initially by government (with good intentions, of course).

And we are told it is for our own good . No need to rant. That would be considered extreme. Enjoy your Dale's Pale. This is the best of all possible worlds. And if you see a crackpot Tea Partier passing by, give him the finger or throw the empty bottle in his direction.

"In the elite view the problem is the people. We should dissolve the people and elect another.

Of course. Liberals believe that the only way for their kind -- the creative, educated, evolved kind -- to make the world a better place is for the middle class to be defeated. That's certainly what the liberals in Fred Siegel's Revolt Against the Masses all seem to think.

But suppose the opposite is true, that the problem is not the people but the political elite?

Never mind, say the liberals. We, the creative class, the compassionate class, are needed to come like gods among men to protect the traditionally marginalized from the rape of corporate greed.

But when things go wrong these creative intellectuals, these gods among men, are nowhere to be found.

Oh no, they cry. The backward people are getting lured into nationalism. Oh no! Look at the “growing size of the state” and debt-fueled entitlements! What's wrong with democracy?

What you must not do, liberals, is continue to appeal over the heads of the middle class to the people of the collective self, the people that haven't yet learned the trick of life and work in the city. Someday your grandchildren, if you have any, will admit that every direct appeal of the creative class to the lower orders has ended up a disaster, from special privileges for labor unions to government education to business regulation to entitlements to socialism. Why? Because all these ideas are pre-modern, pre-individualist, and negate the idea of personal responsibility.

You see, liberals, a world without personal responsibility is not a Kumbaya world of fuzzy collective consensus. It is a world wrenched back in time to the rule of the patriarch or its modern derivative, the charismatic lightbringer. In the age of cities, science, markets, commerce, it fails every time it's been tried.

But you liberals are educated. You already knew that."

http://www.americanthinker.com/asset..._to_blame.html

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Republicans and Democrats..are all bought and paid for. Corruption in the form of political donations and favors by lobbyists.

burp.

if you truly believe this and what you quoted from Goebbels.... the solution is not to continue to grow the size, scope and cost of government, the solution is to reduce the size, scope and cost of government and return it to it's original and enumerated duties powers and making fewer dependent on it's largess....you should join the Tea Party

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

... but my point is that the whole weapons of mass destruction fiasco was nothing more than a coined term to push a crooked agenda. ....

I agree...

that was the short list...my favorite...prescient

“The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow.” — Bill Clinton in 1998