PITCHNEY 5" DANNY ??

[pbadad]

I DECIDE TO SPIN A FEW OF THESE REPROS TO SPECS. SWEET LOOKING DESIGN. I HAVE 2 QUESTIONS. WIRESIZE. SHOULD I BE USING A SMALLER GUAGE WIRE SAY .037, WHICH I DO HAVE OR GO WITH .062? OTHER QUESTION WHICH LIP: LEFTY 1 MID OR 7/8 A-LIP? I SWAM THEM WITH THE SMALLER WIRE WITH 2 DIFFERENT LIPS. LEFTY1 MID AND 7/8 A-LIP. SWAM GREAT AT A CRAWL WITH THE LEFTY BUT VERY INCONSISTENT WIGLE WITH THE SMALLER 7/8 A-LIP. I DIDN'T TRY THE .062 WIRE BUT I'M CONCERN THAT THE EXTRA 3-4 GRAMS OF WIRE WILL EFFECT THE ACTION AND RUN IT UNDER THE SURFACE. ALSO DO YOU THINK THE WIRE WILL HOLD UP TO A "BIGGIE". ANY THOUGHTS??

[Grapenuts]

wire is .45

lip is a hair wider then 3/4 w/the dive plane only 1/2 long and being a reg. danny lip mid slot......change nothing on/around the plug if your going to do it to spec's....hooks are 1/0 mustad not vmc.

it'll hold up to anything if you use the drag that's on your reel and take your time to bring the fish in.

[numbskull]

You need to cut your own lip, Paul has the dimensions. Any minor change in weight added by a wire can be countered by using slightly less belly weight. In a plug this short and small it won't matter much.

1/0 treble hooks (or 2/0 for that matter) are not going to hold consistently on a good fish using braid unless you hook her somewhere with no obstructions or current. Been there done that too many times already.

The balance of the plug and line tie position and lip dimensions have more to do with where it swims than the weight. For example, the Musso Pine and Musso Surface swimmer weigh the same, are shaped the same, but swim 4-8 feet apart.

If you want another good little swimmer, check out the "mini-musso" scale down I posted in a thread called "something constructive" a few years back. You can use a lefty1 lip on that plug.

[ProfessorM]

Info I got

the original was 4 5/8" long, not 5". The wgt was 1/4" dia by 3/8" to 7/16" long put in 2 5/16" back from face of plug. I have also put in a squished flat 00 buckshot low on the body at same location, like BM did on his dannies. I use .062 wire. Can't imagine the very small difference in .047 to .062 is going to have too much ill effect on the plug. I use pine for material but have done some out of AYC if you want a little lower on surface swimmer. Plug should weigh in around 1 to 1.2 oz without hooks. Largest dia. of plug is 1.025 which is in the middle..rear end is .690 dia. front is .830 dia.

Lip is .830 wide, same dia. of the front of plug. Face of lip is .450 long and bottom part is .500 long. Slot is in middle of the .450. Lip is mounted on plug roughly a 1/32 below center. Hope this helps. Paul

[Grapenuts]

theres a 4 3/4...5 1/8....6...7 3/8....

[pbadad]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

Info I got

the original was 4 5/8" long, not 5". The wgt was 1/4" dia by 3/8" to 7/16" long put in 2 5/16" back from face of plug. I have also put in a squished flat 00 buckshot low on the body at same location, like BM did on his dannies. I use .062 wire. Can't imagine the very small difference in .047 to .062 is going to have too much ill effect on the plug. I use pine for material but have done some out of AYC if you want a little lower on surface swimmer. Plug should weigh in around 1 to 1.2 oz without hooks. Largest dia. of plug is 1.025 which is in the middle..rear end is .690 dia. front is .830 dia.

Lip is .830 wide, same dia. of the front of plug. Face of lip is .450 long and bottom part is .500 long. Slot is in middle of the .450. Lip is mounted on plug roughly a 1/32 below center. Hope this helps. Paul

Thanks kindly for the info. I'm doing the 5.125 length. I've done 3 different plugs with cedar and pine. The pine w/o hooks weighs in @ 31 grams. dia. .750 nose, 1.00 large dia & 9/16" tail. They wigle nicely but go under. I've sealed them for an hour by mistake and they gain 3-4 grams. I'm bleeding them as I type. Hope to drop some weight. The cedar swims great. weighs in 1.1oz w/2 1/0 hooks. I see if I made the dia. to your spec the larger diameter would allow the plugas is to swim up like it should. I reshaped the lefty 1 mid to .750, 1/2" lip length. PITA. Tried 7/8 A-lip, NG no action unless your burn in plug. Tested in saltwater to get the buoyancy. I keep you inform how I make out and on my decision.

[numbskull]

Post a picture of the plug if you can.
5 1/4 sounds wrong to me. I suspect you might be copying a bootleg swimmer, and they tend to dive some.

[ProfessorM]

I am not familiar with a 5 1/8" size Danny but I am wrong at least once every day and I think so far I have been right all day, but don't ask my family.

[pbadad]

This is a length that Dave( Canalman ) used. The nose 3/4, lrg dia. 1" @3" back w/9/16 tail. hook holes 1.125" & 3.375" back. Weight 1/8 oz. @ 2.50"back. The weight of components of a plug this diameter seems to be very critical to obtaining the desired action. I ground down a Lefty 1 mid to specs of .750 dia. w/.500 lip extention. I heated the previous sealed pine bodies and was able to remove appro. 3-4 grams. They now weigh around 28 grams w/o hardware. Red cedar sealed 22 grams. I ordered supplies along with some .05 pikie lips which was another reccommended lip for this plug. Another session should finally
uncover this mystery. Thanks guys for yor help and suggestions. Keep them coming.

[Grapenuts]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

I am not familiar with a 5 1/8" size Danny but I am wrong at least once every day and I think so far I have been right all day, but don't ask my family.

these are the ones I own...minty new.I only bought one of each so the lenght maybe different on others of the same size.Knowing at times he really cranked them out during fishing season.He may have eyed alot of cutting.

[ProfessorM]

Ah that is why there is a difference. Pichney made 3 sizes that I am aware of. You are copying one of Dave's dannies which he may have changed the specs from an original to fit his liking. Many do make adjustments and nutin wrong with that at all, especially if you can not get original lips and such. You use what you can get and adjust from there. Dave uses red cedar in all his dannies I believe. I gave you dim. for an original small Pichney Danny. No biggie. I am sure it will work well for you and has for Dave.

[ProfessorM]

Originally Posted by Grapenuts

these are the ones I own...minty new.I only bought one of each so the lenght maybe different on others of the same size.Knowing at times he really cranked them out during fishing season.He may have eyed alot of cutting.

see I knew someone would prove me wrong before my head hit the pillow. He may have also done some custom sizes for people too. So maybe Dave had his hands on one too as I know he is friends with C. Soares and he was good friends with D. P. and C. S. lent Dave a bunch of originals so one may have been that size.
Strike 2
Going to bed before I strike out

[Grapenuts]

there is a big difference between the 43/4-51/8-6 ...bodies do get bigger even to the eye w/the 3 smaller ones.more then one would think.

[pbadad]

Yes thats probably the case. yes dave did copy a C.S. Pichney danny.White pine is preferred but cedar is a suitable substitiute. I used what looks like yellow pine w/grain which seems to account for the heavier weight. The cedar ones come in nice (20 grams w/hardware with 3 gram belly). I did 1 out of a diffferent pine scrap( looks white) and that is 24 grams sealed and weighted. learnibg point for me out of this is the difference slight weights in wood species effect on small surfaceplugs of this nature.

[Rockfish9]

things I have learned...
#1.. no matter who origialy makes a plug. no two of them are going to swim the same.. it's just not possible.. the grain alone in a specfiic piece of wood will make a differance...is every demension that exact?.. every hook hole... weight hole EXACTLY where the previous one was.. are the lengths EXACT.....things to ponder...

#2 lead... when weighting a plug... you cant go by the size of the slug.. you must weigh it if you really want it to be exact... differant pours will have differant perossities..

#3 surface swimmers... if you really want them to stay on top... avoid turning in straight line between transistions... instead... make sweeping countours/radiuses... ( Musso plugs are a classic example of this) by doing so you change the amount of wood on the plug dramaticly.. it DOES make a differance...

#4... Danny style plug line ties... a quick look at the line ties in any of the pictures on Bass Dozers site ( the closest some of us will ever be to an original)...look where they are... way down on the bottom of the plug...once i reworked ANY and all lips I now use on danny's( every size from Gorrilla 10" down to the 4" one) to match that.. the action DRAMATICALY improved especialy at real slow speeds...and if lip size is propotinate to the plug body.. that puppy will stay on top.. no matter how fast i crank it.. it gives me the option of slowing the plug to a crawl or speeding it up if i have a fish in pursuit..much like a bait fish would do if it was about to become lunch..
another finding for slow speeds.. thin the tail a little... it creates less resistance on its path back and forth...
#5... because i dis like making my own ( been there done that) .. I build the plug to fit waht is available to me... I will modify if need be .. but for me.. building a plug around an available lip is eaiser than building a lip for a plug that might not like it anyway...

I'm no expert.. not even close.. trial and error is my teacher. I let the fish decide on what they want... then I build it...often times based of the design of the masters before me... I just do it with what is available to me..

[capesams]

U make a lump grow in my pants

[numbskull]

I want to see a picture of this 5 1/4 inch "danny".
If he made one they are rarer than hen's teeth.
Borrow the damn thing from Steve, Paul.

He did make a 5 1/2" plug that looks like a danny but swims deeper like a musso pine. It was called a "bootleg". It has the max diameter further back (true dannies are fattest in the midline and weighted there), was thinner nose to waist, carried more weight, and used a higher slot lip. It is not a surface swimmer even though it looks like one. The one I measured was slightly wider than the dimensions you posted. I swam the original, didn't like it, and never bothered to copy it.

The fact that you have the widest spot 3" back on a 5" plug is much more in keeping with the bootleg than his surface swimmers. It is also going to let the lip pull more of the nose down (particularly if weighted ahead of its belly) and create issues trying to stay on top. You will do better if you move the belly to 2.5 ", rig the plug, adjust the weight until it floats in saltwater level and at midline. It will swim fine provided the lip slot is low. Keeping the lip narrow will reduce the roll.
The plug should pivot around the fat belly and weight, moving those spots apart will mess you up.

[pbadad]

Amazing info on tis thread. I'll try reshaping a proto with the belly 2.5' and transition to tail with a slight concaved curve. I thank all the help. Soon this craze will end for me cause it's time to FISH!!

[Grapenuts]

4 11/16 long

nose 11/16

fatest part 2.5 back 1"

front hook 1" back

back hook 3 1/8

lead 2 1/4 back

tail is 9/16
........................................
5 1/8" long

nose 3/4

fatest 3" back is 1"

tail 11/16

front hook 1 1/8" back

second hook is 3 1/4"

lead 2 5/16 back

[pbadad]

Originally Posted by Grapenuts

4 11/16 long

nose 11/16

fatest part 2.5 back 1"

front hook 1" back

back hook 3 1/8

lead 2 1/4 back

tail is 9/16
........................................
5 1/8" long

nose 3/4

fatest 3" back is 1"

tail 11/16

front hook 1 1/8" back

second hook is 3 1/4"

lead 2 5/16 back

Good info. The 5-1/8" has a much bigger tail than mine(9/16")

[Grapenuts]

the lips are cut dead center and the line ties are a hair under 3/16th"'s up from the bottom.

[pbadad]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Post a picture of the plug if you can.
5 1/4 sounds wrong to me. I suspect you might be copying a bootleg swimmer, and they tend to dive some.

Checked out Bassdozer plugology on dannys. It seems the bootleg shape is like mine. large diameter set back from mid. Claim it is a shallow diver. That makes sense like you mentioned George. The cedar bodies do swim on top unlike the pine I used.

[ProfessorM]

got all that info too and the lip info too if you are interested.

[pbadad]

Thanks Paul. I would appreciate it.