I don't get this... - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

spence · 10-05-2012, 03:58 PM

Kid started Scouting when he was six years old.

Almost-Eagle Scout denied award because he is gay - U.S. News

-spence

FinS 32 · 10-05-2012, 04:32 PM

I am an eagle scout actually, and its in interesting subject, although I won't share my views on the subject its just one of those rules that has been there for a long time.
similar story, when i was still in scouting, when i was younger, I went to camp every year. One year we get a new conselor, really nice guy, eagle scout In Us and again in the Philiipines, very impressive scouting resume, and you would never ever expect he was gay. some how it was found out, and the fired him and kicked him out of scouting. It was the entire kid's life, just taken away.
Liek I said I wont share my view on it, but this stuff isnt new its been going on for a long time

PRBuzz · 10-05-2012, 04:35 PM

Don't ask, don't tell! Unless someone finds out and tells for you at its finest.: (
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sburnsey931 · 10-05-2012, 07:12 PM

It baffles me that this stuff still exists. Freedom in the USA should not be exclusive
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Bronko · 10-05-2012, 07:48 PM

Total disgrace.
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Fly Rod · 10-05-2012, 08:56 PM

where is the disgrace....It is a known fact....no gays in the Boy Scouts....thats the motto

What's the problem????????? U do not get it

Bronko · 10-05-2012, 09:36 PM

Yea and at one point women couldn't vote and blacks we're slaves. The kid is a teenager probably struggling with some pretty serious issues both socially and emotionally and they are going to deny him the award? Total joke. The kid is gay, big deal. The Boy Scouts of America should be ashamed of themselves.
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Nebe · 10-05-2012, 10:30 PM

Sad story on many levels.
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likwid · 10-06-2012, 05:32 AM

The "Duty to God" bit is a total joke. Half the troops in MA ignore it/don't discuss it/dismiss it as people have their own beliefs and have a right to have them.

Quick Flyrod! Go rat em out!

buckman · 10-06-2012, 05:47 AM

It's a private organization . While I don't agree with it they can do what they want
There are few organizations that have accomplished what the Boy Scouts have for as long as they have. It's a wonderful organization that really could do without this rule
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JohnR · 10-06-2012, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronko

Yea and at one point women couldn't vote and blacks we're slaves. The kid is a teenager probably struggling with some pretty serious issues both socially and emotionally and they are going to deny him the award? Total joke. The kid is gay, big deal. The Boy Scouts of America should be ashamed of themselves.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

What he said. Thankfully they didn't throw the country away before those wrongs were righted, don't through Scouting away today on something that will likely change in the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckman

It's a private organization . While I don't agree with it they can do what they want
There are few organizations that have accomplished what the Boy Scouts have for as long as they have. It's a wonderful organization that really could do without this rule
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It is a private organization

RIROCKHOUND · 10-06-2012, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

where is the disgrace....It is a known fact....no gays in the Boy Scouts....thats the motto

What's the problem????????? U do not get it

Bronko summed it up nice.
In the motto huh?
I don't remember it being "we're the BSA, and we only bang chicks..."

what a shameful story. Makes me have 1st let a lone 2nd thoughts about letting my son join someday...

scottw · 10-06-2012, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

what a shameful story. Makes me have 1st let a lone 2nd thoughts about letting my son join someday...

just send him to Girl Scouts instead...tell him that gender is a state of mind and not a physical limitation...

JohnR · 10-06-2012, 11:15 AM

Rock - maybe by the time he is old enough it will have changed, maybe it won't. I foresee that it will within the next 20 years. If we threw everything away that was 90% good and 10% bad, we would never have anything.

The local council has stated they would like to see it changed but national hasn't - yet.

For someone that has a kid in Scouts, I can tell you he will be a better young man because of it and the good, far, far, outweighs the bad.

spence · 10-06-2012, 12:02 PM

I think we'd all agree with the positive values of Scouting...that's what makes it all the more absurd.

-spence

The Dad Fisherman · 10-06-2012, 02:19 PM

I'd be curious to see what organization holds His Units Charter. 75-80% of Scouting units are chartered through religious organizations. The Mormon Church is the #1 organization that holds charters for scouting units and the United Methodist church is #2. The Catholic Church is #3

I'm betting there is more to this story than just a dink scoutmaster....there is a whole committee and chartered organization involved that may be part of it.

Wouldn't be an issue in our unit....

FinS 32 · 10-06-2012, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnR

Rock - maybe by the time he is old enough it will have changed, maybe it won't. I foresee that it will within the next 20 years. If we threw everything away that was 90% good and 10% bad, we would never have anything.

The local council has stated they would like to see it changed but national hasn't - yet.

For someone that has a kid in Scouts, I can tell you he will be a better young man because of it and the good, far, far, outweighs the bad.

I can back this up 100%, i was heavily involved form the time i was a tger cub in like 1st grade to when i became an eagle at 16, and even continued to the time I turned 18. for all the bad that is said about scouting, its hard to argue with teh good it does, and all that it teaches. the principles still stand strong today, and i keep the in my mind my whole life

detbuch · 10-06-2012, 08:20 PM

If sexual orientation should not be an issue, perhaps "Girl" Scouts and "Boy" Scouts should not be separated and the organization could just be The Scouts.

The Dad Fisherman · 10-06-2012, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detbuch

If sexual orientation should not be an issue, perhaps "Girl" Scouts and "Boy" Scouts should not be separated and the organization could just be The Scouts.

2 different organizations...

the Boy Scouts do offer a program that is Co-Ed...It is called Venture scouts. it is available to both Boys and Girls between the ages of 14-21.

Tagger · 10-07-2012, 06:35 AM

# 1 above anything else is youth protection . People are still confused about gay and pedophiles . Pedophiles get their prey , even in big macho college football programs . How to detect them ? I don't know . Unfortunately these creeps keep getting associated with gays .

spence · 10-07-2012, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detbuch

If sexual orientation should not be an issue, perhaps "Girl" Scouts and "Boy" Scouts should not be separated and the organization could just be The Scouts.

I think you're mixing orientation and gender.

-spence

scottw · 10-07-2012, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence

I think you're mixing orientation and gender.

-spence

"mixing orientation and gender"

isn't that the definition?

Saltheart · 10-07-2012, 12:50 PM

Kids start scouting at a very young age. My opinion is that most and in fact almost all understand nothing about why their sexual preference is what it is at 10 years old. So they join and as they mature they make a decision about hot dogs or tacos (I use this expression for humor but on purpose because to me its as unimportant to me whether you like boys or girls as it is whether you like hot dogs or tacos). This decision is actually made after the scouting has had a long time to influence their character and likely influenced their sexual preferences along the way. So since scouting spans these formative years , its rediculous for them to ban something at the end of a kids scouting experience that probably developed during the many years it takes to go through the program to Eagle Scout.

Anyway , I think the adult(s) who would deny a lifelong scout his Eagle Badge because he is gay is a far bigger threat to kids and scouting than the individual kids who may opt to be gay as they grow up.

Nebe · 10-07-2012, 01:47 PM

I couldn't have said it any better saltheart.
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spence · 10-07-2012, 02:16 PM

I can't believe the hot dog and taco reference was random at all

-spence

scottw · 10-07-2012, 02:23 PM

this reminds me of when Eben was kicked out of the Miss Black America Beauty Pagent...who knew that they had rules that you had to be black, a woman and marginally attractive....he could have been a contender...

I knew I remembered this story...

June 3, 2011

Three bisexual men claimed they were kicked out of the Gay Softball World Series for not being gay enough and filed a lawsuit in Washington state against the North American Gay Amateur Athletic Association.

The three men, playing for a San Francisco softball team, were challenged on their sexuality by a rival team, citing a rule that limits no more than two heterosexuals on a team.

The men claim they were "summoned to a hearing room to answer questions about their sexual interests or attractions," according to the Courthouse News Service.

The men said they were told that "this is the Gay World Series, not the Bisexual World Series."

detbuch · 10-07-2012, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saltheart

Kids start scouting at a very young age. My opinion is that most and in fact almost all understand nothing about why their sexual preference is what it is at 10 years old. So they join and as they mature they make a decision about hot dogs or tacos (I use this expression for humor but on purpose because to me its as unimportant to me whether you like boys or girls as it is whether you like hot dogs or tacos). This decision is actually made after the scouting has had a long time to influence their character and likely influenced their sexual preferences along the way. So since scouting spans these formative years , its rediculous for them to ban something at the end of a kids scouting experience that probably developed during the many years it takes to go through the program to Eagle Scout.

Anyway , I think the adult(s) who would deny a lifelong scout his Eagle Badge because he is gay is a far bigger threat to kids and scouting than the individual kids who may opt to be gay as they grow up.

This process of awakening to who you are or what you actually believe repeats itself millions of times in innumerable situations. It is the cause of countless broken ties. The divorce rate is driven by this process. Friendships, partnerships--private or business or political or religious or . . .--are dissoved by it. In some instances, the relationships survive by placing more value in the relationship and by sacrificing private desires and realities. But most part ways either amicably or angrily. In few, if any, situations do the relationships survive by redefining the structure, the entity through which the relationship is created. Rather, the individual agrees, despite his inner desires, to abide by the rules of engagement. If the structure is changed to accomodate the individual, then it is different from the original agreement that all others agreed to.

If the young almost Eagle Scout has discovered late that he cannot abide the rules and beliefs of the organization to which he has so long been a part of, should the Scouts change their rules to accomodate him, or should he decide that accepting a trophy of accomplishment, from an organization that does not recognize the value of who he is, would be a sham?

If President Obama finally realizes, after a lifetime of being a free market capitalist, that he is really a socialist, or marxist, and "comes out" by declaring his new-found discovery of who he is, should we compassionately say "that's OK, brother, lead on the ship of state as you choose," or should we boot him out?

likwid · 10-08-2012, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detbuch

Rather, the individual agrees, despite his inner desires, to abide by the rules of engagement.

So you want him to lie, which is against the rules.

detbuch · 10-08-2012, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by likwid

So you want him to lie, which is against the rules.

No, I don't want him to lie. If he chooses to lie, that is HIS decision based on whether it is more important for him to be a Scout and get whatever rewards he thinks that entitles him to. But if he chooses to be honest, realizing he cannot live up to scouting ideals and rules, and realizing that scouting ideals do not agree with his own, he can part ways with the organization and pursue life in his "true" way.

Jim in CT · 10-08-2012, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottw

this reminds me of when Eben was kicked out of the Miss Black America Beauty Pagent...who knew that they had rules that you had to be black, a woman and marginally attractive....he could have been a contender...

Funniest thing I've read here, maybe ever. Coulda been somebody, coulda been a contender...

The reference to slavery is a bit off, as this is a private organization. There are college scholarships out there that are limited by gender and ethnic status.

JohnR is right, we will live to see the day when this is changed. Until then, 99% of what the scouts do is positive.