Too bad Yank's

[ProfessorM]

Well my off season is a little easier to take now that the bombers are out of it. The curse of A-Rod continues MVP A-Rod 2 for 15. Now to see who George goes out and buys in the off season to see if we have a chance to compete. Torri Hunter? P.

[MoroneSaxatilis]

Originally Posted by Professor Moriarty

Now to see who George goes out and buys in the off season to see if we have a chance to compete. Torri Hunter? P.

He's gonna buy friggin' JOHNNY DAMON!!!

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by MoroneSaxatilis

He's gonna buy friggin' JOHNNY DAMON!!!

Every dime he spends on exactly what he doesn't need (but wants just to hurt Boston) is a dime he can't spend on what he really needs, pitching. Which, as you've seen, is what counts this time of the year

[MoroneSaxatilis]

Agreed

[vineyardblues]

YANKS CAN HAVE THEO FOR OVER 2 MIL.
A-ROD LOL

VB

[redneck24]

Originally Posted by Professor Moriarty

Well my off season is a little easier to take now that the bombers are out of it. .

yankees suck!!!

[MoroneSaxatilis]

Originally Posted by Professor Moriarty

Well my off season is a little easier to take now that the bombers are out of it. The curse of A-Rod continues P.

A-Rod is A-FRAUD and A-DOG.
Mussina is a Mu-sissy
The Big Unit is breaking down becoming a Not-So-Big Unit
Sheff plays right field like Shemp
Center field is now empty (Bubba?)
Left field is also now empty

I predict that Giambi will NOT pass his drug test next spring

[hunan]

a-rod is still the best player in baseball and this year's mvp, although it seems to only be during the regular season. looks like we're going to see a whole new outfield next year. i'd like to see rowand from the white sox in center, that kid is top notch. i'll take vlad the impaler in right and maybe ichiro in left batting lead-off with jeter batting second? it's only 1 day after so i guess i'll stop now. oh yeah, cano got rooked on that call. goodbye.

[Mike P]

I don't think Vlad and Ichiro are free agents.

Whadda ya have to trade that's worth the two of them?

Angels don't need anything you have to trade, and Seattle can't afford to pay anyone that's worth what Ichiro would bring. You'd have to eat a good part of whoever's traded salary and pay Ichiro his full salary. I don't think the Angels would be interested in trading Vlad (one of the real good guys in the clubhouse) straight up for Sheff (a clubhouse cancer), do you?

[Elmo]

I'm with you professor, just love to see the yanks lose! As much as I love the rsox I do find it a little humorous that the teams with the biggest payrolls are gonna be watching the WS from home. Something really has to be done to even the playing field in baseball so that all teams compete. Maybe not this year but statistically speaking, buying championships does work, the yanks are proof of that.

[Bassman18]

Originally Posted by Elmo

Maybe not this year but statistically speaking, buying championships does work, the yanks are proof of that.

The red sox might be a better example. With the exception of nixon and varitek, almost everyone on the roster has been bought within the last few years. Not to mention, five players on the yankees' active roster have never played for any other team other than the yanks. If you look at the last time the yankees won the world series (2000), there were seven players then that have only played with the yanks. Facts and figures do show that the yankees obviously pay an insane amount of money on their players, just because they can. The red sox, on the other hand can't afford to pay their players as lucratively, however, they purchased a lot more players at a lower cost. If you look at it on the other hand, if the red sox did have the same money as the yankees, do you honestly expect that the red sox will still pay what they're paying now, or would they make the same offers the yankees make. All in all, the yankees pay more for fewer players, while the red sox pay less for more players...with that in mind, in order to beat the yankees, you gotta be the yankees; especially in this day and age where baseball, sadly, is now becoming more and more business-minded, rather than it just being a game.

Lastly, I think this rivalry has taken a turn for the worst, it probably started off innocently, but lately, after living in boston for the last two years, I can see that it's much more than a simple rivalry, it's full-blown hatred that should be toned down a lot. You guys beat the yankees, and finally got your world series trophy in an epic postseason series that no one will ever forget, now what more do you need?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Bassman18

now what more do you need?

The Total Collapse of the Yankees Empire, The Tearing down of Yankee Stadium, Steinbrenner filing for bankruptcy, and Jeter and A-Fraud finally coming out of the closet nationally and Admitting thay are Homosexual Lovers.

Then I'll have everything I need...

[ProfessorM]

Originally Posted by Bassman18

Lastly, I think this rivalry has taken a turn for the worst, it probably started off innocently, but lately, after living in boston for the last two years, I can see that it's much more than a simple rivalry, it's full-blown hatred that should be toned down a lot. You guys beat the yankees, and finally got your world series trophy in an epic postseason series that no one will ever forget, now what more do you need?

This rivarly has had hatred involved in it for many many years, not just recently. It will never tone down. That is what makes it great.

[MoroneSaxatilis]

Originally Posted by Professor Moriarty

This rivarly has had hatred involved in it for many many years, not just recently. It will never tone down. That is what makes it great.

I have heard/read interviews from members of the '78 Sox team who said that they had a true "hatred" of the Yanks.

[ProfessorM]

[QUOTE=hunan]a-rod is still the best player in baseball and this year's mvp, although it seems to only be during the regular season.

Maybe he should play for the Braves. Great regular season terrible post season. He is one of the best I would not say the best, you Lakeville living yankee lover you. NY papers killed him the next day. Still never won anything yet. Curse of A-Rod. How does it feel. Paul

[kippy]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

The Total Collapse of the Yankees Empire, The Tearing down of Yankee Stadium, Steinbrenner filing for bankruptcy, and Jeter and A-Fraud finally coming out of the closet nationally and Admitting thay are Homosexual Lovers.

Then I'll have everything I need...

I think the last part has been confirmed, look at A-rods lips!

[Arno]

quoting the prof' up above: "Now to see who George goes out and buys in the off season to see if we have a chance to compete."

Well, it seems GS's attention is going to have to include a pitching coach - since Mel Stottlemyre called it quits. Can't say as I blame him - 'cause of the way Steinbrenner treats some of his players and coaches. Like Don Zimmer, to use just one example.

'Been following baseball for a good many years. No favorite teams, just enjoy watching crisp well played baseball. And while rivalries are all part of the game, I never could understand the mutual hatred shared by some Red Sox and Yankee fans. Just uncontrolled misplaced anger (imo). But on the other hand, to each his own, I suppose.
.

[Mike P]

I would also suspect he's gonna need a new GM, as Cashman's contract expires on Halloween, and it's widely rumored here that Cashman is fed up with having his authority undercut by the Tampa crowd and team president Randy Levine.

I don't think George will do a lot of big-name shopping. Most of his big money guys are still under contract. Not re-upping Bernie Williams and Kevin Brown will free up $27 million, but Matsui's deal is also up and he's gonna command a lot more than what he's currently making (8 million). And, I think he's still paying a good piece of Soriano's contract with the Rangers as part of the A-Rod trade.

His two aces, Johnson and Mussina, will be a year older and neither has ever been a post-season phenom But, he's stuck with them. He might be more active in the trade market than the free agent one.

Some of the fixes bandied about in the papers down here are laughable--like trading Sheffield for Manny Like, Epstein would ever be dumb enough to trade Manny within the Division, let alone to the Yankees. Altho watching Manny try to play right field would be worth the entertainment value

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

The Total Collapse of the Yankees Empire, The Tearing down of Yankee Stadium, Steinbrenner filing for bankruptcy, and Jeter and A-Fraud finally coming out of the closet nationally and Admitting thay are Homosexual Lovers.

Then I'll have everything I need...

OK, that had me laughing my ass off

Originally Posted by Mike P

I would also suspect he's gonna need a new GM, as Cashman's contract expires on Halloween, and it's widely rumored here that Cashman is fed up with having his authority undercut by the Tampa crowd and team president Randy Levine.

I don't think George will do a lot of big-name shopping. Most of his big money guys are still under contract. Not re-upping Bernie Williams and Kevin Brown will free up $27 million, but Matsui's deal is also up and he's gonna command a lot more than what he's currently making (8 million). And, I think he's still paying a good piece of Soriano's contract with the Rangers as part of the A-Rod trade.

His two aces, Johnson and Mussina, will be a year older and neither has ever been a post-season phenom But, he's stuck with them. He might be more active in the trade market than the free agent one.

Some of the fixes bandied about in the papers down here are laughable--like trading Sheffield for Manny Like, Epstein would ever be dumb enough to trade Manny within the Division, let alone to the Yankees. Altho watching Manny try to play right field would be worth the entertainment value

Epstein wouldn't mind having GS take his 20+ mil so they could get pitching and more. That's part of why the past two years they've dangled him on the wire hoping Georgy would come take the bait...

A-Rod is NOT the MVP, that would be Ortiz - How many games did A-Rod "win"? How many were "clutch"?

[Arno]

quote: "Altho watching Manny try to play right field would be worth the entertainment value"

Right. But not for Yankee fans.

Yup - we can all agree that no way in the world will Ramirez be a Yankee. Steinbrenner would have to give up the ghost first. Besides, the Yankee fans would never put up with his nonsense. I figure they'd run him outta' town on a rail.
.

[ProfessorM]

quote: Besides, the Yankee fans would never put up with his nonsense. I figure they'd run him outta' town on a rail.
.
Baloney. When Manny hit 45 homers and drove in 140 RBI's they would put up with it just like we do up here. They have put up with all kinds of jerks in the past several years on Georges all mercenary team. K. Brown, Sheffield, Mr. personality R. Johnson, R. Mon., and of course the admitted cheater, steroid user Giambino. Hell they were ready to hang the guy from the Empire State building last year paying him all that cash and now he hits a few homers and he is great again. He was even voted, not by the fans, the comeback player of the year award. An admittted cheater WTF. So I think the NY fans would put up with Manny being Manny in a NY minute. To quote Al Davis " just win baby" is all that matters to them. Paul

[beachwalker]

it's alla bunch of shiite.

we won 2 more games than the sox this year and have a division championship to boot. end of story. see you in the spring

[Arno]

I was referring to on-field shenanigans. ON-field. Off the field, many ML ballplayers can be idiots. No big deal. But there are not that many players who have pulled the chit on the field that Manny Ramirez has. Can that honestly be denied?

And yes, the fans still love him. But not nearly as much toward the end of the season, for sure. Even the Boston sports writers were tiring of his antics - and wrote as much. And if you read some of the articles in the baseball magazines, you'll see many writers have offered the same.

As for him in New York - as I said, I don't think the fans would tolerate him. Not for long, anyway. That's my opinion. But chances are good we'll never know.

Being neither a Red Sox nor a Yankee fan, I'm not bridled by blind fan devotion. So we non-fans can be a bit more objective. Not necessarily more accurate in our opinions, just more objective.

By the way, I'm not about to defend Yankee players - the ones you mentioned in your post in particular. As said, I'm not a Yankee fan anyway, and I definitely don't care for Steinbrenner.

Ramirez is, of course, a gifted batter. But I can't remember any ball player who's pulled more on-the-field stunts and blunders as he has. But yet, a large segment of the fans love him. "He's our Manny", as the expression goes. Ya' gotta' love it.
.

[beachwalker]

it's cool on this end. i'm just messing about

[ProfessorM]

The end of the season and playoffs are when he shined. If it was not for him and Ortiz they would have been looking in at the playoffs, probably would have been better that way. I am just busting your jewels. I think any fans would like his offense and probably put up with it to get it. True he is a fruitcake but as long as he drives in runs I personally can over look his shenanigans. I know what you are saying I just think differently. Go Celtics BTW that is the name of my boat, Shennanigans. Paul

[Mike P]

Fans are funny. When Clemens first came to NY from the Jays, most Yankee fans were adamant--"he ain't now and he'll never be a 'true' Yankee". For the first year or two, that held.

They started warming to him, and rallying around him, when he drilled Piazza and (unfairly, IMO) got crucified by the Mets fans for it. When he sawed him off in Game 2 of the Series and threw the broken bat in his direction, I think many Yankee fans marked that as the moment he became a true Yankee Because they Mets laid down like dogs after that

He won over the few remaining holdouts when he pitched his guts out in Game 7 against Arizona in 2001, then sat in the dugout with the team while Rivera threw the Series away.

They could warm up to Manny. As much as mgt would like to dump his contract, I doubt they'd want to face him 19 times a year in their own division.

Manny to the Mets? Definitely a possibility, as Minaya is hot for him and he'd fit in better in that loose clubhouse.

Manny to the Yankees? Not a chance

[Arno]

You said, "...but as long as he drives in runs I personally can over look his shenanigans."

There's no question that you're not alone in that thinking. And I am NOT saying those of you who believe that way should be faulted. Not at all. 'Cause if that's the way you feel, then that's that. Period. And as often said, it'd be a boring world if everyone agreed on everything.

However... I think Ramirez brought a new standard to the game. At least in Boston. Boston is where fans put up with the likes of Don Buddin, for example. As someone here on the forum reminded us, even a Boston sportswriter had quipped that the number on his license plate should be "E-7". But as bad as he was, he tried his best. And that, I believe, is what caused some fans to be somewhat forgiving. At least for a while.

Another example is #^&#^&#^&#^& Stuart. The Boston fans gave him the best nickname in baseball. "Dr. Strangeglove." He could hit and he could field. That is, he could field as long as the ball was smacked to either side of him. The harder the better. But if a ball came straight at him, half the time you could forget about it. But the guy tried. The fans loved him when he'd plant the ball over the fence, but they'd boo him when he booted a ground ball. Yet he was a fan favorite. The guy was always giving it his best shot.

Now along comes Manny. A pure hitter. When he's on, he's as good as it gets. No question about it. But up above I mentioned that he brought a new standard to Boston. And I honestly believe he did. Sure, he produced big time. But he also displayed a lack of hustle I never witnessed before in Boston. Maybe here and there, but Manny raised the bar. Notice I'm not referring to his sleeping on the base paths, unfortunately that happens to others as well. (Although Manny probably does that best.)

The fact is the guy is lazy. He flat doesn't hustle. How many times have we seen him lope to first after hitting a grounder? Hell, I remember one time he never left the batter's box. Yet he's still a fan favorite. Hard to figure, because Boston fans weren't known for being tolerant of players who didn't always give it their all.

I think most fans will put up with almost anything except ball players who don't hustle. And for me, that's the ONLY thing I have against Manny Ramirez. In fact, it's funny in a way... because we've all seen Manny hoofing it full speed 'round the bases while the announcers took special note of him running hard. As if a ball player running hard should be something out of the ordinary - and something that should be pointed out. Fact is, for Manny it is.

Anyway, that's my take on Mr. Ramirez. If I was a Red Sox fan AND could choose my left fielder, it'd be someone like a healthy Gabe Kapler for example. The guy plays hard and gives his team mates and the fans 100% all the time. And there are others... that while they don't have the bat that Manny Ramirez has, you can be sure they won't lay down on their team either.

Oh, for the days of Freddy Lynn...

[MoroneSaxatilis]

I am no Manny appologist, I'd just like to put my 2¢ in...

Originally Posted by Arno

The fact is the guy is lazy. He flat doesn't hustle.

These 2 things should probably not be equated. There could be any number of reasons (or bad excuses) for Manny's curious lack of hustle at time. I don't believe laziness is one of them. He routinely shows up at the ballpark early and takes xtra batting practice, etc. It's more likely something like, "Oh sh*t! I didn't make solid contact and get a base hit. I bounced it to the shortstop and he's definately gonna throw me out at 1st anyway." (bad excuse)
As far as lack of hustle in the field goes, we saw too much of it, but I can't think of any particular times when it cost a run, and manny Did lead the majors in outfield assists (no doubt more a product of his quick realease than anything else). we've also seen him crash into more than one wall to try and make a play.

Originally Posted by Arno

If I was a Red Sox fan AND could choose my left fielder, it'd be someone like a healthy Gabe Kapler for example. The guy plays hard and gives his team mates and the fans 100% all the time. And there are others... that while they don't have the bat that Manny Ramirez has, you can be sure they won't lay down on their team either.

Everyone likes Kapler. His teamates, coaches, fans, media. And it's certainly true that he hustles on every play all the time. But the reality of the situation is that a team needs baserunners, RBI and homers. Players like Manny are few and far between in those categories.
I go to between 10 & 20 games per year. I don't wanna be driving home saying, "Well.. it's too bad they didn't score with all those chances they had, but at least they're nice guys who tried really hard!"