Health insurance

[spence]

I'm curious what people think the government should enforce in regards to health insurance regulation.

One thing that I think is really bad, is how insurance companies are dropping coverage because some people just aren't that profitable.

Pre-existing condition? Well, your new insurance won't cover that...

Loose your job? Get COBRA for 7-800 a month for a while...then you're screwed.

Those who actually read my posts know I'm not for a single payer system and don't necessarily advocate the public option.

That being said, reform is certainly necessary even if it cuts into corporate profits.

What say you?

-spence

[buckman]

Tort reform for starters, not as an after thought. I still wouldn't let this bunch of two faced hypocrits reform our Health Ins. If I had a young family I would be very leary of what they will pass. Read the proposed Bill. Everything you heard last night was a lie.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

I'm curious what people think the government should enforce in regards to health insurance regulation.

One thing that I think is really bad, is how insurance companies are dropping coverage because some people just aren't that profitable.

Pre-existing condition? Well, your new insurance won't cover that...

Loose your job? Get COBRA for 7-800 a month for a while...then you're screwed.

Those who actually read my posts know I'm not for a single payer system and don't necessarily advocate the public option.

That being said, reform is certainly necessary even if it cuts into corporate profits.

What say you?

-spence

spence, I've held off on this story awhile, but here it is 100% true.
Both my parents worked their entire lives, 10 years ago they semi-retired to Florida. My Mom took another career position, my Dad, worked part time. Due to corporate restructuring, my Mom was laid off. She was the insurance provider and went on Cobra. Well, then 6 months or so pass and we find out my Dad has cancer. My parents panic, I do a ton of research (which conflicts with your assertions above) and we find that as long as you do not let your insurance lapse, pre-existing conditions cannot be held against a person when applying for insurance. Its the LAW. My parents get private insurance and yup, its expensive, but way less than paying the medical costs of cancer treatment. So my sister and I offer to pay the insurance so my parents dont have the burder, they refuse. My Mom, a person who worked her entire life in an office, goes out and gets a job at a supermarket making donuts at 4am, just to get insurance. She fought to get the 30 hrs a week to be eligible for insurance, once again, prexisting conditions where not a factor since their insurance never lapsed and so they discontinued the private insurance and my mom got insurance from the supermarket. She got up 6 days a week at 4am, worked 5 hrs and then took care of my Dad. So........heres my eternal struggle as a conservative, maybe you all can help. How come my parents (mom) could do it? Is it becasue, they're lucky? blessed? white? educated (both only HS degrees)?, or just because they believed that their circumstances were their circumstances and they had to take care of themselves, please help me see the light?

[spence]

So how many people pay into their insurance plans but can't afford COBRA or find a new job with coverage?

I applaud your parents for making things work, but that's not a one size fits all solution.

-spence

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

So how many people pay into their insurance plans but can't afford COBRA or find a new job with coverage?

I applaud your parents for making things work, but that's not a one size fits all solution.

-spence

Spence, while there's not an easy solution that works for everyone, there are options out there. Dunkin Donuts offers BCBS health insurance for hourly employees that work 35 hours per week. And they're hiring f/t employees right now. And they're not the only company doing that. I guess some people might think they're above doing jobs that they think aren't good enough for them. Myself, I'd do what Jim's mom did and do what I have to to have insurance for my family.

The government has already made COBRA easier for people to afford with the American Recovery and Investment Act. The government now pays 65% of the person's premium and they also extended COBRA benefits. This is supposed to be temporary until 12/09, but there is already talk of extending it. And keep in mind that the cost of COBRA for a person is the total cost of the insurance company premium. It's what the employee was paying along with the portion that the employer was contributing. So if employees want to complain about the cost they pay, they should consider that the employer is picking up at least 60% and usually more of the total cost of the monthly premium.

The simple solution to making health insurance more affordable (not considering tort reform) is to have standardized costs for services. Certain procedures, surgeries, imaging, etc... will have a fixed price set by the governnment in conjunction with medical professionals and insurance companies. Hospitals will have fixed prices for rooms and medical devices also. I know it's probably a longer shot than tort reform, but to me it seems to be the most logical solution that wouldn't require 900 billion dollars right off the bat.

[justplugit]

God bless your Mom and Dad, Jimmy.

Sounds like your parents grew up and worked in the American tradition
where you find ways to take care of yourself.

Your Mom found there have always been ways in this country to take care of yourself if you are
willing to work and sacrifice without Nanny assistance.

[justplugit]

I would like to see Complete Tort Reform.

Interstate competition for current HC already in place.

Tax credits or rebates in a HC account for all Soc Sec card holders to help pay insurance premiums based on income.

Government enforcing the laws against the fraud/ waste of Medicare/ Medicaid.
If there is truly $900 Billion in waste and fraud, those dollars could be returned
to cover tax credits for HC premiums for everyone.

Use Medicare as a safety net for the unemployed seeking work.

Government regulation that all insurance companies offer a basic low cost
plan option.

The main reasons I'm against a government option is the additional cost to
set it up, and the temptation for employers to drop their HC plans forcing
a hugh expensive Government plan that we can't afford.

We already have things in place, tweak them and make them more affordable
being close to 80 % of Americans are happy with their current plan.

Just a few thought off the top of my head.

[Joe]

There's a lot of people working sh_t jobs for insurance purposes - they could better contribute to society if health insurance was affordable. I think affordable health insurance would free a lot of people to start their own businesses or work at better paying jobs that don't typically provide insurance.

[RIJIMMY]

salty, your insurance wont cover your sons broken leg? What DO they cover?
My mom was paying less than 700 a month, private insurance, with full blown cancer. Everything covered!

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

salty, your insurance wont cover your sons broken leg? What DO they cover?
My mom was paying less than 700 a month, private insurance, with full blown cancer. Everything covered!

Mass Commonweatlh Care won't pay. Mass has some of the highest premiums in the nation and some of the highest paid exec in the health ins..

Jim, did you folks get ins. in FL or RI

Tort Reform. my wife obgyn pays 600K are year for insurance.

[RIJIMMY]

all good info, I usually stay out of the healtcare debate because I dont have a solution. I do know that raising taxes and having the government run with it will be a bad thing. Reform i am for, but a government run plan is not a good thing. We have to stop the tax=solution problem with this country.
Why isnt a simple thing like - you get cheap government insurance if you volunteer 10 hours a month. The governmenr has a website, like ebay where you bid for the use of people's time. If I need help painting a house, I can search for a house painter in the area, I bid for his time, the money goes to the government to pay for insurance? May sound wacky but look how succesfull ebay and craigslist are. These are the type of things I expected from Obama, he was SUPPOSED to be young, hip, tech friendly, all we've seen is a lame democrat who over reaches and relies on tax. Where is the creativty all the youth movement wanted from him? His soluton.....hire a "czar" for every problem.

[buckman]

How's this for ironic, Comm. Care is managed by a NJ company. What a stupid state I live in

[striperman36]

Interesting writeup

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/op...stof.html?_r=1

See it anytime you go to the E-Room and wait

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by striperman36

Interesting writeup

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/op...stof.html?_r=1

See it anytime you go to the E-Room and wait

What first hit me as curious about this story was the sketchy account of Nikki having a job with health insurance and while on that job discovering she had lupus, then getting progressively sicker until she could no longer work, thereby losing her insurance. If, as stated, lupus can be controlled under a doctor's care, why wasn't that done while she was still employed with insurance?

Then, even more curious, because she couldn't re-acquire insurance because of the pre-existing condition, it was lack of insurance that caused her to die--NOT LACK OF MEDICAL ATTENTION. How about a little pro bono docs/hospitals. You do it all the time for others. Here's a young woman with a life threatening condition and you can't even offer her a cut-rate price (as is often done for uninsured in "insurance situations") and let her make monthly payments. Those might still be high, but there are, at least ways to make them--live at home, drive a used car, eat in, get financial help from parents, she doesn't have to "qualify" for those. And if you help her, she can be healthy enough to work and make the payments. But, no, it all must be INSURANCE, private, government, universal . . . we must all lower our quality of life so that some few can maintain theirs. That's an insult to people like Jimmy's parents.

[scottw]

I have a dear friend that lives just down the street from me...he has been a sole proprietor of a small modest business in Newprort for about 25 years and is in his early 60's, he did not have health insurance several years back when he discovered that he had non- Hodgkins lymphoma, he has received at least two rounds of treatments since and it may be three, the treatments caused degredation of his lower spine and nerve problems resulting in severe neuropathy requiring fusion, he was bed ridden for most of the early part of the year and since reovered only to the point that he can barely get around on his own, his galbladder quit on him late Sunday night and he's been in the hospital since having it removed on Sunday/Monday am and recovering...my point to all of this is that he had/ has no health insurance....he should have had at least purchased a major medical policy but for some reason chose not to, he is not wealthy and despite all of this he has never been refused treatment, he has not lost his house nor his business and is not in danger of doing so, there are a remarkable number of charitable organizations and foundations available to help with expenses for these situations, he has no family but has had help from friends with recovery and day to day activities...if you believe the rhetoric coming from the proponents of this so called reform my friend should be bankrupt, on the street having lost his home and business but it is simply not the case...it's simply scare tactics designed to create an atmosphere that will allow them to massively expand government and it's control and direction of the lives of individual Americans on a daily basis and has nothing to do with compassion... it's socialism....and it's the wrong way for America

this just in...
September 17, 2009
Gee - only a week later we learn Obama was wrong about insurance sob story
Rick Moran
He stood in the well of the House a week ago, looked right into the camera at the American people and lied.

No, not that lie. Not the laughable notion that illegals will be unable to buy into Obamacare. This is a lie where he indicted the entire US healthcare system by claiming someone died because private insurance companies are too greedy.

Jonathan Weisman of the Wall Street Journal has uncovered the real story of what happened to the man Obama claimed was dropped by his insurance company during chemo treatment because of an unreported gallstone:


President Barack Obama, seeking to make a case for health-insurance regulation, told a poignant story to a joint session of Congress last week. An Illinois man getting chemotherapy was dropped from his insurance plan when his insurer discovered an unreported gallstone the patient hadn't known about. "They delayed his treatment, and he died because of it," the president said in the nationally televised address.

In fact, the man, Otto S. Raddatz, didn't die because the insurance company rescinded his coverage once he became ill, an act known as recission. The efforts of his sister and the office of Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan got Mr. Raddatz's policy reinstated within three weeks of his April 2005 rescission and secured a life-extending stem-cell transplant for him. Mr. Raddatz died this year, nearly four years after the insurance showdown.

Obama aides say the president got the essence of the story correct. Mr. Raddatz was dropped from his insurance plan weeks before a scheduled stem-cell transplant.


No, the president did most assuredly NOT get the "essence" of the story correct. In fact, he got the essence wrong - completely.

The "essence" of the story is that the patient died because his treatment was delayed by greedy, heartless, insurance companies. Any boob knows that the point Obama was trying to make was that the patient's death was directly the result of insurance company actions.

But the patient's sister testified before Congress:


The patient's sister, Peggy M. Raddatz, testified before the House Energy and Commerce oversight subcommittee June 16 that her brother ultimately received treatment that "extended his life approximately three years." Nowhere in the hearing did she say her brother died because of the delay. Ms. Raddatz didn't return calls seeking comment.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

I'm curious what people think the government should enforce in regards to health insurance regulation.-spence

Of course, we can disregard my suggestion in another thread that insurance IS the problem, and that paying out of pocket would solve that problem. Naturally, that is and old-fashioned concept and is not relevant to the modern world.

Perhaps, you might reframe your question. Instead of what regulations SHOULD the government enforce, might we instead ask what should the government DEREGULATE. Tort reform has been mentioned (damned good point that gets not even a tweak of a response). Instead of federally and by state restricting choices, ALLOW competition between private ins. cos.(not the false competition of privately run by profit versus government run by taxes, debt, and printing money). Insist that people should be AT LEAST as interested and involved in, and ready to pay for their health as they are in paying for TVs, cars, food, clothes, entertainment, education. . .

If you want private ins. cos. to exist, you must let them make the profit they desire. They are looking to make the best return on their investments. And if you restrict that, they can invest elsewhere. If bottom-line profits are so objectionable, then, by all means, let's have the public option. The beauty of that is that it will halt the booming progression of products that extend life. Research will wither for lack of profit motive. Existing drugs will eventually lose proprietary rights, falling into the public domain and be strictly produced for government distribution, many becoming obsolete as resistant biological strains develop. Life span will shrink, solving much of our social security, medicare, and health care costs. Population growth will halt, solving overpopulation, which will solve the global warming problem through decreased use of carbon. The terrorists will not think it worthwile to destroy such a diminished state, besides they won't have enough money due to falling oil sales. And people will finally see the necessity and greatness of an all-powerful, benevolent government and NEVER vote Republican again. UTOPIA!!!

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

I'm curious what people think the government should enforce in regards to health insurance regulation.

One thing that I think is really bad, is how insurance companies are dropping coverage because some people just aren't that profitable.

Pre-existing condition? Well, your new insurance won't cover that...

Loose your job? Get COBRA for 7-800 a month for a while...then you're screwed.

Those who actually read my posts know I'm not for a single payer system and don't necessarily advocate the public option.

That being said, reform is certainly necessary even if it cuts into corporate profits.

What say you?

-spence

the way that his question is phrased indicates that he is oblivious to any problems existing in healthcare that are not somehow the fault of the private sector, it's evil ceo's and it's management and the delivery of these services, no indication or admission that government's role in healthcare through legislation has led to the exploding costs, just the suggestion that the only way to "make it better" is for government to attach more leaches to the private sector in the form of harsh regulation, his examples regarding what's wrong are simplistic and inaccurate as usual...this is the fundamental reason for the huge impass with healthcare reform, the left is of the mind that the only way to "fix" healthcare is with massive government regulation, take over, dictates and control, unfortunately, they fail to recognize that the other programs currently run by government that you can look to as models of failure are what in fact are currently bankrupting the system, "the socialists(and their programmes) are running out of other peoples money" as Thatcher and Buck indicate and the typical solution from the left is for government to envelop a private sector entity and feed off of it's flesh for a while, until it collapses and dies and then government will move onto another victim (source of cash).....the necessary fixes for healthcare require government to get out of healthcare and reduce the regulatory demands that are put on the system and burden it with over regulation and let competition in the market reduce overall costs...just as with the housing crisis, it is government inserting itself into the system and dictating to the service providers what must and must not be done, or else..that leads to disaster...but a disaster that benefits the BIG government types because it gives them the excuse to insert themselves further of take over and run things themselves..

[justplugit]

I saw some poll figures yesterday:

Doctors are against the current proposed HC plan 2 to 1.

45% of Doctors said they would retire if the plan went through.

Where are all these Doc's coming from to handle another 20-50 million people
under this new plan?
The wait to see a specialist is long enough now.
My family had 2 occasions within the last 6 months to need specialists.
It was a 6 week wait to see a neurologist and 4 weeks to see a gastroenterologist. Then another 3 or so weeks to get the tests and wait for the results.
It's like 7 -9 weeks before you know what's wrong.
Imagine what it would be if HC passed.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by justplugit

45% of Doctors said they would retire if the plan went through.

RIIIIGGGHHHTT...
and 2 out of 3 dentists say...

I agree there are issues, but a line like that begs for a follow up..

Did they only interview doctors over 60?
I can't imagine the doctor who is 45, experienced, finally set-up and comfortable with a career, maybe has his loans paid off, to suddenly retire... right...

[justplugit]

I can only tell you what the poll said.
Having said that even if it was only the over 60's, that were fed up and retired, there still wouldn't be enough Docs to fill the breech.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by justplugit

I can only tell you what the poll said.
Having said that even if it was only the over 60's, that were fed up and retired, there still wouldn't be enough Docs to fill the breech.

There aren't enough doctors now in most areas with current demand. Some primary care physicians see over 100 patients in a day.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

RIIIIGGGHHHTT...
and 2 out of 3 dentists say...

I agree there are issues, but a line like that begs for a follow up..

Did they only interview doctors over 60?
I can't imagine the doctor who is 45, experienced, finally set-up and comfortable with a career, maybe has his loans paid off, to suddenly retire... right...

yep, Rock, it was probably like that CNN poll of Obama's speech where they polled 45% democrats and 16% republicans to find out what percentage of Americans were swayed by the messiah's words...

I know several young doctors that have closed their practices because they were tired of dealing with paperwork, insurance and regulatory nightmares....particularly related to medicare and the restrictions put on them...some just work for various clinics now and one volunteered at the VA for a while but found he spent most of his time filling out paperwork instead of doctoring...

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by scottw

I know several young doctors that have closed their practices because they were tired of dealing with paperwork, insurance and regulatory nightmares....particularly related to medicare and the restrictions put on them...some just work for various clinics now and one volunteered at the VA for a while but found he spent most of his time filling out paperwork instead of doctoring...

Yes, having worked in the medical field and still having contact
with a few physicians, i know how they feel about medicine now,
let alone what it may become.
Many are going into ER Medicine because there are set hours and they
don't have the headaches of overhead and paper work.

[scottw]

it's not just the "providing" of health insurance for everyone, you have to consider that once you begin providing it you have little control over how much the providees will use it, compounding the problem that you mention above...when you are getting something from the government or your employer that you think is your entitlement, you really have no reason not to overuse it, after all, you deserve it, don't you?

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by scottw

it's not just the "providing" of health insurance for everyone, you have to consider that once you begin providing it you have little control over how much the providees will use it, compounding the problem that you mention above...when you are getting something from the government or your employer that you think is your entitlement, you really have no reason not to overuse it, after all, you deserve it, don't you?

Yup, that's why the people in Japan go to the Doc 4 times more than Americans.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by scottw

when you are getting something from the government or your employer that you think is your entitlement, you really have no reason not to overuse it, after all, you deserve it, don't you?

LOL, just reminded me of my Mother-in-law. About 20 years ago the government
was handing out cheese every month to senior citizens.

She had a decent income and needed cheese like she needed a hole in the head.
But every month she would line up with the others and brag she got her "free" Cheese.

Little did she know, she and i were paying for it with our taxes.

Ya get nothin for nothin.

[Joe]

[QUOTE=justplugit;712156]LOL, just reminded me of my Mother-in-law. About 20 years ago the government
was handing out cheese every month to senior citizens.

She had a decent income and needed cheese like she needed a hole in the head.
But every month she would line up with the others and brag she got her "free" Cheese.

Little did she know, she and i were paying for it with our taxes.

Ya get nothin for nothin. [/QUOT]

We subsidize the dairy industry in case there is a problem with cows getting sick or producing bad milk in one area of the country, they can quarantine or destroy them and the country can still have milk from other parts. Milk is a necessity for children, the subsidies insure that we always have a safe milk source.

[buckman]

Here you go Spence.

Investors.com - 45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Here you go Spence.

Investors.com - 45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul

You are joking, right?

Let's do the math.

1376 doctors out of 800,000 doctors is a sample of .17%

This poll was done by mail, so we can assume somewhat that it's biased towards doctors who are opposed, as they are more motivated to voice their opinion. People who are content don't tend to be as vocal.

This "poll" appears to be contradicted by most other polls.

The 45% number is a (rather un-scientific) linear extrapolation by the author from the .17% to 100%.

I'm sure there are doctors opposed to reform, but this is complete nonsense.

It's like me talking to two people out of a thousand at a company, and because one of them liked my product that 50 people liked my product...

-spence

[Joe]

Originally Posted by spence

Let's do the math.
1376 doctors out of 800,000 doctors is a sample of .17%

So you divide da little numbah by da big numbah, and den you move dat little dot over to da right two numbas? Dats pretty smot!