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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi: |
11-05-2010, 02:08 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD
Like I said, statistics are useless without context.
The whole subject is about who made out better. Dollars speak a whole lot louder and mean a whole lot more than percentages do.
$11,500 > $1000
The guy making $250k benefited more.
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Johnny, my undergraduate degree (from UCONN) is in statistics. This is NOT statistics, it is elementary school mathematics. A 33 percent tax decrease is larger than an 11.6 percent tax decrease. Sorry if that ruffles your political feathers.
I'd also argue that giving an extra $1,000 to a guy making $20k a year, means more to him than giving $11,500 back to a guy making $250K. Why? Something called "diminishing marginal returns". Simply puit, a $100 raise means more to someone earning minimum wage than a $1 million raise to Bill Gates.
Every time someone proves you wrong, you just keep telling yourself that they are "taking it out of context". The other kook here keeps accusing me of "spin" for making the outrageous claim that 33 is, in fact, greater than 11.6.
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11-05-2010, 02:23 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 5,238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Johnny, my undergraduate degree (from UCONN) is in statistics. This is NOT statistics, it is elementary school mathematics. A 33 percent tax decrease is larger than an 11.6 percent tax decrease. Sorry if that ruffles your political feathers.
I'd also argue that giving an extra $1,000 to a guy making $20k a year, means more to him than giving $11,500 back to a guy making $250K. Why? Something called "diminishing marginal returns". Simply puit, a $100 raise means more to someone earning minimum wage than a $1 million raise to Bill Gates.
Every time someone proves you wrong, you just keep telling yourself that they are "taking it out of context". The other kook here keeps accusing me of "spin" for making the outrageous claim that 33 is, in fact, greater than 11.6.
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Ah, a fellow Husky, I was a senior when the men's and women's teams won the championships in the same year.
You're right. I keep typing statistics and that's the completely incorrect term. I'm a jackass in that aspect. You aren't ruffling my political feathers at all... mostly because, like usual from very partisan people, you think I'm a liberal because I disagree with you.
And every time someone proves you wrong, you change the context of your original statement. First, who benefited more from the change in policy, then it's who appreciates it more, now it's whoever pays more overall is screwed? Benefits can be quantified, appreciation cannot.
If I give a bum on the street a $100 bill, he'll certainly appreciate it more than someone on Wall Street that cashed in a $1M deal. But the bum certainly didn't benefit more.
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11-05-2010, 02:31 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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[QUOTE=JohnnyD;808316]If I give a bum on the street a $100 bill
QUOTE]
if you are truly a liberal you will take a hundred dollar bill from your neighbor and give it to the bum... and then congratulate yourself....see, you both benefit
now to debate who benefits more...the bum or the liberal
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11-05-2010, 05:52 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD
Ah, a fellow Husky, I was a senior when the men's and women's teams won the championships in the same year.
You're right. I keep typing statistics and that's the completely incorrect term. I'm a jackass in that aspect. You aren't ruffling my political feathers at all... mostly because, like usual from very partisan people, you think I'm a liberal because I disagree with you.
And every time someone proves you wrong, you change the context of your original statement. First, who benefited more from the change in policy, then it's who appreciates it more, now it's whoever pays more overall is screwed? Benefits can be quantified, appreciation cannot.
If I give a bum on the street a $100 bill, he'll certainly appreciate it more than someone on Wall Street that cashed in a $1M deal. But the bum certainly didn't benefit more.
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You're all over the place. You even sort of proved my point.
Consider the bum getting $100 or Warren Buffet getting $1 million. The $1 million is meaningless to Buffet, it doesn't change his life at all. $100 to a homeless person can have a very meaningful impact (that's the 'diminishing marginal returns' I was referring to).
A bum "makes out better" getting $100 than Buffet does getting $1 million. You practically said that yourself. Because the $100 adds more incrementalutility to the bum's life than $1 million does to Buffet.
Same logic with the tax decrease, it's the same thing.
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11-05-2010, 07:01 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Warwick
Posts: 541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Johnny, my undergraduate degree (from UCONN) is in statistics. This is NOT statistics, it is elementary school mathematics. A 33 percent tax decrease is larger than an 11.6 percent tax decrease. Sorry if that ruffles your political feathers.
I'd also argue that giving an extra $1,000 to a guy making $20k a year, means more to him than giving $11,500 back to a guy making $250K. Why? Something called "diminishing marginal returns". Simply puit, a $100 raise means more to someone earning minimum wage than a $1 million raise to Bill Gates.
Every time someone proves you wrong, you just keep telling yourself that they are "taking it out of context". The other kook here keeps accusing me of "spin" for making the outrageous claim that 33 is, in fact, greater than 11.6.
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i've been a cpa 25 years. Stick to economics where everything is theory - butter and guns. I deal with people and their money and taxes that is real life.
No tax accountant could make a client feel better with your % crap. They want real world results.
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11-05-2010, 09:09 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stcroixman
i've been a cpa 25 years. Stick to economics where everything is theory - butter and guns. I deal with people and their money and taxes that is real life.
No tax accountant could make a client feel better with your % crap. They want real world results.
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Wow. I'm an actuary, which is one of the few professions that demands greater quantitative skills than an accountant.
In my first post, I said that if your tax rate decreases from 15 percent to 10 percent, that's a 33% decrease in your tax obligation.
You disagreed.
I was right. You were wrong. You see, "10" is a number that is exactly 33.33 percent less than "15".
I'm glad you are not my accountant.
You need a refresher course. I'm sure you can find some continuing ed seminar somewhere...when you get your next issue of Pravda or "The Daily Worker", check the classifieds...
Last edited by Jim in CT; 11-06-2010 at 07:51 AM..
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11-06-2010, 06:10 AM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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11-06-2010, 09:51 AM
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#8
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Also known as OAK
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Westlery, RI
Posts: 10,349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Wow. I'm an actuary, which is one of the few professions that demands greater quantitative skills than an accountant.I'm glad you are not my accountant.You need a refresher course. I'm sure you can find some continuing ed seminar somewhere...when you get your next issue of Pravda or "The Daily Worker", check the classifieds...
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Wow. you just played the I'm smarter than you card. I think that's the first blatant use of it here in the PF. Usually it is just veiled a bit more than that...
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Bryan
Originally Posted by #^^^^^^^^^^^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
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11-06-2010, 10:49 AM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND
Wow. you just played the I'm smarter than you card....
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yeah, that's Spence's forte...this could mean war
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11-08-2010, 03:50 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 5,238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Wow. I'm an actuary, which is one of the few professions that demands greater quantitative skills than an accountant.
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Ahh... there it is. That self-defining pretentious attitude I encountered during my years living in CT from Connecticut residents who graduated from UConn.
Hunted trout all weekend... gotta catch up on the nonsense in here.
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11-08-2010, 04:04 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Easton, MA
Posts: 5,736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD
Ahh... there it is. That self-defining pretentious attitude I encountered during my years living in CT from Connecticut residents who graduated from UConn.
Hunted trout all weekend... gotta catch up on the nonsense in here.
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Seems to me that he's pointing out what he does for a living to explain his point. I'd consider an actuary a subject matter expert when it comes to tax discussions.
Do you think RIRockhound is being pretentious when he's explaining things having to do with science? To me, he's an SME because of what he does for a living.
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Conservatism is not about leaving people behind. Conservatism is about empowering people to catch up, to give them tools at their disposal that make it possible for them to access all the hope, all the promise, all the opportunity that America offers. - Marco Rubio
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11-08-2010, 04:15 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbones
Seems to me that he's pointing out what he does for a living to explain his point. I'd consider an actuary a subject matter expert when it comes to tax discussions.
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But don't you think he lost all credibilty when he started out with
"Over the last few years, I have heard every single Democrat, and everyone in the Media....."
As soon as I hear "every single" anything and I know its not true, I tend to tune that person out.
Sorry, but I hate "SME".
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11-08-2010, 04:30 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Easton, MA
Posts: 5,736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
But don't you think he lost all credibilty when he started out with
"Over the last few years, I have heard every single Democrat, and everyone in the Media....."
As soon as I hear "every single" anything and I know its not true, I tend to tune that person out.
Sorry, but I hate "SME".
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No, he didn't lose credibility with me. I understand when someone uses a statement like that which although is hyperbole, it's not expected to be taken literally.
I don't blame you for hating SME's. Experts can be annoying when they know more about a topic than you.
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Conservatism is not about leaving people behind. Conservatism is about empowering people to catch up, to give them tools at their disposal that make it possible for them to access all the hope, all the promise, all the opportunity that America offers. - Marco Rubio
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11-08-2010, 07:45 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mansfield, MA
Posts: 5,238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbones
Seems to me that he's pointing out what he does for a living to explain his point. I'd consider an actuary a subject matter expert when it comes to tax discussions.
Do you think RIRockhound is being pretentious when he's explaining things having to do with science? To me, he's an SME because of what he does for a living.
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There's a whole lot of ribbing that goes on around here as we bust each other's chops. However, RIRockhound doesn't try to lift himself up by demeaning another person's career throwing out comments like "You need a refresher course. I'm sure you can find some continuing ed seminar somewhere...when you get your next issue of Pravda or "The Daily Worker", check the classifieds... ", and if so, I've missed them.
Last edited by JohnnyD; 11-08-2010 at 07:57 PM..
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11-09-2010, 05:53 AM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD
There's a whole lot of ribbing that goes on around here as we bust each other's chops. no, there are many here that LOVE to take their own shots and then whine indignant when responded to in kind, and particularly when shown to be wrong...this is a good example However, RIRockhound doesn't try to lift himself up by demeaning another person's career throwing out comments like "You need a refresher course. I'm sure you can find some continuing ed seminar somewhere...when you get your next issue of Pravda or "The Daily Worker", check the classifieds... ", and if so, I've missed them.
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actually it's Spence that throws the "Brian is a scientist so he can't be wrong" thing in you face...not so much recently given the state of the global warming debate....ahhhhh...climate change.......ehhhhh......ummmmm......errrrrr....no oooo....wait for it........YES....the new and improved term to scam the planet... GLOBAL CLIMATE DISRUPTION...we'll try that for a while and see if it catches on
hope it fares better than "man caused disasters"...a term that most aptly describes Obama
Jim, don't worry about these clowns, when they start insulting you at the end of an argument it means they lost miserably on substance and they hope you'll go away so you won't be around to continue to prove them wrong...note that the quality of the insults were pretty pathetic and unintelligible in JD's case...which isn't unusual
it's a little sad that you even have to explain some of these things
Last edited by scottw; 11-09-2010 at 06:10 AM..
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11-09-2010, 12:47 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 4,834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbones
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Do you think RIRockhound is being pretentious when he's explaining things having to do with science?
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Yes
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11-09-2010, 12:55 PM
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#17
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sick of bluefish
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 8,672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman
Yes
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I pick up a rock and throw it in the water, it sinks. Is there really anything more we need to know about geology?
The stone age has been over for 5000+ years!
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making s-b.com a kinder, gentler place for all
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11-09-2010, 12:58 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman
Yes
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that'll get you put on his ignore list...he's very sensitive...and clairvoyant
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11-08-2010, 08:08 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Warwick
Posts: 541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Wow. I'm an actuary, which is one of the few professions that demands greater quantitative skills than an accountant.
In my first post, I said that if your tax rate decreases from 15 percent to 10 percent, that's a 33% decrease in your tax obligation.
You disagreed.
I was right. You were wrong. You see, "10" is a number that is exactly 33.33 percent less than "15".
I'm glad you are not my accountant.
You need a refresher course. I'm sure you can find some continuing ed seminar somewhere...when you get your next issue of Pravda or "The Daily Worker", check the classifieds...
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my final comment:
Jim if you are such a tax expert why do you need an accountant? Obviously you are an internet tax expert.
I I want an opinion on a DB plan's unfunded obligation or whatever you call it - then you'll get a call.
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