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Old 01-16-2021, 05:50 PM   #151
Hookedagain
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Unfortunately most framers are not like you and I. I would make certain that every joint and miter was tight as a bulls ass in fly season. Seems like not many can read tape anymore....if its within a 1/4" its close enough. I worked for a guy a few years back and all my framing was on point, tight, clean. He decided to go by on a Saturday and "help me out". Money was my last day. Absolutely terrible! Where the framing net the pitch of the ceiling he used all square cuts, I mitered it, Headers were short, JACKS were short. I asked if he even knew the purpose of a jack stud. And the stew that broke the camels back is the post he put in to carry the beam...it sat on the floor boards ..between the floor joists.. with nothing on the floor below. I tried to explain point loads but it was useless. I told him I would either take things apart and re do them or fix them, he said it wasn't in the budget.....that was my last day. I couldn't in good conscience leave it that was and I sure couldn't keep going and have my name on it that way.
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Old 01-16-2021, 06:06 PM   #152
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Small kitchen is not necessarily a bad thing.....could be a more efficient work triangle than a large spread out one....
I used to be a hardcore home cook and definitely preferred a smaller kitchen where I didnít have to move far to reach things. Also invested in work tables that could be multi function. A kitchen table thatís rock maple I could make pasta on or a side cart that has an electric burner in it. Hardly ever use it but when you need it itís gold.


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Once in a while we get a customer who wants to save a few bucks and do their own painting. I chuckle to myself...seen it many times....they way underestimate the amount of time and effort it will take......then settle for a job they would never accept if they paid someone.
Iíve painted dozens of my own rooms and itís just not worth it unless itís a cheap starter house. Iíve got an awesome painter and they often spend more time prepping than painting, especially exterior. Always monitoring moisture levels and as clean as can be.
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Old 01-16-2021, 07:39 PM   #153
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WTF, I cut it twice and itís still short!
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Old 01-17-2021, 06:41 AM   #154
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WTF, I cut it twice and itís still short!
Attachment 67639
Ray....it's worse than that...I could have gone around taking a bunch of pictures of the crap job they did.....gaps everywhere!!!(here's where improper use of a nail gun is to blame......nails go in but lumber is not driven together ....like with the last blow from a 22 oz hammer).....out of plumb studs....wall intersections hardly nailed.....headers sticking past the studs.....i could go on....horrible! Bottom line is they lack the intelligence and skill to understand the process.....and dont give a crap what I think anyway. I was framing houses "the right way" before any of these guys were born. But exposing them as butchers would not change a thing... whoever replaces them will be just as bad or worse.....seen it before. Boss doesnt want to hear it either......rant over
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:38 AM   #155
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Ray....it's worse than that...I could have gone around taking a bunch of pictures of the crap job they did.....gaps everywhere!!!(here's where improper use of a nail gun is to blame......nails go in but lumber is not driven together ....like with the last blow from a 22 oz hammer).....out of plumb studs....wall intersections hardly nailed.....headers sticking past the studs.....i could go on....horrible! Bottom line is they lack the intelligence and skill to understand the process.....and dont give a crap what I think anyway. I was framing houses "the right way" before any of these guys were born. But exposing them as butchers would not change a thing... whoever replaces them will be just as bad or worse.....seen it before. Boss doesnt want to hear it either......rant over
Its just beer money for the week end...a job, thats all it it. They are not craftsmen at all.
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Old 01-17-2021, 04:00 PM   #156
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How bout these..

Nailing off strapping by hand....
Miter cut wooden gutters with hand saw miter box....
Nailing the last few cap shingles after the suns gone down to finish the roof in the middle of February and you hit your thumb....
Staging plank snaps with u on it...
One of the monkeys removed a temp stay and a gust of wind blows the gable wall falls off the end of the frame........
Carrying 1 1/8Ē ply on a commercial job...
Your lunch left in the pickup didnít thaw....
First day of deer season and no one shows for work.....
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Old 01-17-2021, 06:16 PM   #157
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While I can relate to this Guy....I always take deer season off. LOL
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Old 01-17-2021, 06:55 PM   #158
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Quote:
...whoever replaces them will be just as bad or worse...

Not that it would solve any problems, but with that trade not requiring a licensed tradesman for anyone touching a tool, the door's wide open to any Dick or Harry not knowing what all the little lines between the big numbers on a tape measure are to find employment.
Perhaps if the BI held that trade to a higher standard things would be different, but I imagine there just isn't enough time in a day. Or perhaps the tolerance levels for stick-framing are too loosey-goosey?
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Old 01-18-2021, 05:20 AM   #159
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Gilly.....You're right.... the trade I've spent most of my life learning and doing has been diminished to.... finding the cheapest source of labor....immigrants with questionable legal status. This has been going on for a long time now.
The houses will pass the building code....wont be falling down....but with no standards for tolerances or accuracy......sloppiness and discrepancies prevail.
I got my construction supervisors license in the '80s.....doesnt mean that I know anything about the proper way to frame a structure.....just how to read a code book.
I am strictly a finish carpenter now...but I spent many years framing houses, some with very complicated roof structures, with all the various types of rafters that need to be precisely laid out and cut, I excelled at it and took great pride in the accuracy of my work. I cant frame these houses now so I just complain here....

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Old 01-18-2021, 05:59 AM   #160
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I love it Ray!


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Originally Posted by Guppy View Post
How bout these..

Nailing off strapping by hand....switch hands when one arm goes numb
Miter cut wooden gutters with hand saw miter box....then drill for the lead outlet....trace and chisel out to set flush
Nailing the last few cap shingles after the suns gone down to finish the roof in the middle of February and you hit your thumb....or sitting on icy staging plank with snow melting off the roof
Staging plank snaps with u on it...then a spliced 2x4 pump jack pole snaps with me at the tippy top.
One of the monkeys removed a temp stay and a gust of wind blows the gable wall falls off the end of the frame........lift a wall to shoulder height and the wind takes it and throws it from the second floor
Carrying 1 1/8Ē ply on a commercial job...or two twelve foot sheets of 5/8 firecode with my nut job boss running with it
Your lunch left in the pickup didnít thaw....left it on a lumber pile and a dog ate mine
First day of deer season and no one shows for work.....for me would be first FAC day in june.
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Old 01-18-2021, 06:11 AM   #161
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Was working on a roof one time...putting in skylights with my brother and another guy. Very exclusive neighborhood....rich folks....when a barrage of small stones landed on the roof near us.. turned to see two yooths...riding off on a minibike.....I wasnt botherd but guy with us chased them down back to the mansion.....the maid said she would inform the parents about the incident.
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Old 01-18-2021, 11:56 AM   #162
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Did soffits on a big job one time. 2 stores high and we carried full sheets of 5/8 exterior plywood up ladders to a pick at 10 degrees and snowing. SUCKED!!!!!

No boat, back in the suds.
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Old 01-18-2021, 12:11 PM   #163
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Made snow a couple of winters in the 70s when construction was slow, at night, below freezing and water. At Killington you were responsible for guns on a trail, you got dropped off and walked up and down, moving and adjusting guns till your shift was over.
That was colder than framing in the winter here in Vermont.
Spent years doing that, weíd quit working if it was single digits and blowing.
Usually if it was an artic high the wind only blew when it came in.
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Old 01-19-2021, 05:15 AM   #164
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Just a couple of reasons why these framers suck! ...... they should have their nail guns confiscated
I dont do hiring or firing....if I did there might be nobody left. I keep hearing the plumber say to the framer boss...."so ...what are we going to f*ck up today"
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Old 01-19-2021, 01:35 PM   #165
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unfortunately the level of caring has been below 50% for a very long time. It is getting harder and harder to avoid incompetence in life not just the trades. I am not sure how much longer I can continue and deal with the morons out there but I know there are still plenty of good people that care. I am lucky that there still is a demand for quality work.

The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.

1984 was a warning, not a guidebook!
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Old 01-19-2021, 05:06 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Rmarsh View Post
Just a couple of reasons why these framers suck! ...... they should have their nail guns confiscated
I dont do hiring or firing....if I did there might be nobody left. I keep hearing the plumber say to the framer boss...."so ...what are we going to f*ck up today"
HACK
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Old 01-19-2021, 07:31 PM   #167
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I'm not sure I understand what you guys mean??

All those features are intentional.

"picture #1" = The framers are simply testing the integrity of the sheet-rock guys...wondering if they'll just rock right over it or report it. It's a simple matter of quality control....wish my framers would have "tested" my rockers' integrity like that.

"picture #2" = Perhaps you didn't know, but by carefully positioning a knot between some 2x's promotes a "Good Omen". They're simply wishing the owners Good Luck. Superstitious, is all it is. They know the owner's wife is a palm-reader.

"picture #3" = This is a Concept Trial. They are purposely missing the sheathing so they can then turn the nails back into the 2x6 for better security. This way the nail can't back out...this is a new code which was implemented in some of our hurricane states.

Bob took the picture prematurely....this is the after pick from the following day.
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...
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Old 01-19-2021, 08:20 PM   #168
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The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.

1984 was a warning, not a guidebook!
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Old 01-19-2021, 09:30 PM   #169
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Jenn....It's great that you finally got your new kitchen.....after 18 years! Small kitchen is not necessarily a bad thing.....could be a more efficient work triangle than a large spread out one....more counters just means more clutter and more to cleanup. Did you get all new appliances too? So whats next? Bathroom?


Once in a while we get a customer who wants to save a few bucks and do their own painting. I chuckle to myself...seen it many times....they way underestimate the amount of time and effort it will take......then settle for a job they would never accept if they paid someone.
Oh you're funny "whats next"...whats next is paying off what we put on home equity to make it happen oh and the washer dryer combo is way overdue LOL! I almost feel like it's too fancy for the rest of the house now! HAHA! but I dont regret any of it...honestly it was our 20th anniversary present to each other! And I am no longer ashamed of what I called my dumpy kitchen! new range, hood and finally a dishwasher... kept fridge because it wasnt THAT old ... we had to got short a few years back to fit under old cabinets .. was not easy to find ...designer worked in space (removable panel)to fit common modern size when we need to upgrade which probably wont be long since every thing is made like crap these days...anyway everything new from tile up except fridge and we did not rip out plaster walls or ceiling (had skim coat put on ceiling though). I love the tile, under counter lighting, granite counter top, etc. I don't mind small kitchen itself but seating is limited to basically 4...not great especially with no separate dining room but as far as kitchen goes I love that I now have dishwasher, 3 times the counter space and ten times the cabinet space I used to have. Did not expand kitchen size at all but the space where the stove is now was bare wasted wall. To the right of fridge was the stove and as you can imagine counter and cabinet space was VERY minimal. Wish I had a good pic of crown molding it came out flawless especially for a 60 year old house! I feared it would be too much in such a small space but it wasn't , all in all the small is so much more functional (and beautiful) seating area stayed the same but over all we made better use of wasted space for higher function! I am too ashamed to show the before pics....but trust me the transformation was huge!
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Simplify.......
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Old Yesterday, 04:50 AM   #170
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I'm not sure I understand what you guys mean??

All those features are intentional.

"picture #1" = The framers are simply testing the integrity of the sheet-rock guys...wondering if they'll just rock right over it or report it. It's a simple matter of quality control....wish my framers would have "tested" my rockers' integrity like that.

"picture #2" = Perhaps you didn't know, but by carefully positioning a knot between some 2x's promotes a "Good Omen". They're simply wishing the owners Good Luck. Superstitious, is all it is. They know the owner's wife is a palm-reader.

"picture #3" = This is a Concept Trial. They are purposely missing the sheathing so they can then turn the nails back into the 2x6 for better security. This way the nail can't back out...this is a new code which was implemented in some of our hurricane states.

Bob took the picture prematurely....this is the after pick from the following day.

Funny stuff there Gilly.....We got a saying "Dont piss on my leg and then tell me it's raining" ...basically meaning..... dont make excuses or try to bull#^&#^&#^&#^& me. I have way to much experience for that.......cant be fooled.

Picture #2 ....is actually a (lucky) rock stuck between the top and double plate....notice the nails in the hurricane clip......into nothing....they didn't see the rock? Come on man!
The sheetrock guys would rock over anything and everything in their path.
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Old Yesterday, 05:02 AM   #171
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Oh you're funny "whats next"...whats next is paying off what we put on home equity to make it happen oh and the washer dryer combo is way overdue LOL! I almost feel like it's too fancy for the rest of the house now! HAHA! but I dont regret any of it...honestly it was our 20th anniversary present to each other! And I am no longer ashamed of what I called my dumpy kitchen! new range, hood and finally a dishwasher... kept fridge because it wasnt THAT old ... we had to got short a few years back to fit under old cabinets .. was not easy to find ...designer worked in space (removable panel)to fit common modern size when we need to upgrade which probably wont be long since every thing is made like crap these days...anyway everything new from tile up except fridge and we did not rip out plaster walls or ceiling (had skim coat put on ceiling though). I love the tile, under counter lighting, granite counter top, etc. I don't mind small kitchen itself but seating is limited to basically 4...not great especially with no separate dining room but as far as kitchen goes I love that I now have dishwasher, 3 times the counter space and ten times the cabinet space I used to have. Did not expand kitchen size at all but the space where the stove is now was bare wasted wall. To the right of fridge was the stove and as you can imagine counter and cabinet space was VERY minimal. Wish I had a good pic of crown molding it came out flawless especially for a 60 year old house! I feared it would be too much in such a small space but it wasn't , all in all the small is so much more functional (and beautiful) seating area stayed the same but over all we made better use of wasted space for higher function! I am too ashamed to show the before pics....but trust me the transformation was huge!

Kitchen looks great Jenn! I admire your patience and attitude.


The proverb ďall things come to those who waitĒ comes to mind.... if person is persistent and patient, they will finally achieve their goal.
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Old Yesterday, 10:56 AM   #172
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...Picture #2 ....is actually a (lucky) rock stuck between the top and double plate....
.... A rock?? How da-hell does a rock get on top of a wall that was stood up after being nailed together? I Thought for sure it had to be a knot that fell out and got ignored.

But a rock...That's a totally different omen.... a rock causes a cursed omen.
Run Bob....while you still can!!! I'll meet you at the ramp!

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Old Today, 04:55 AM   #173
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Framers were back to install the big front door unit at this house.....I went over to speak to one of them about the window headers.... right off he told me he didnt speak English......."thats okay" I said "You dont need to.... I'll point". He followed me over ....I pointed and he stood there looking at it...... dumbfounded! "There's more like that and they need to be fixed" I told him.
If I spoke spanish I would have said....."Es un hachazo lo que hiciste."
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