House to vote on impeachment

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

vague insults from a little
twerp who can never criticize his own side or compliment the other side. bleating of the sheep spence, that’s 90% of what you do. what did i stay exactly, that was wrong?

You have pretty much all of it wrong. You are fact intolerant.

Quit with the stupid insults. I think you're better than that and you'll never be as big of a prick as your mentor SD.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

You have pretty much all of it wrong. You are fact intolerant.

Quit with the stupid insults. I think you're better than that and you'll never be as big of a prick as your mentor SD.

you called me misinformed, then have the sack to ask
me to drop the insults.

i have it all wrong? i’ll go slowly...

(1)did obama, or did he not, ask
a russian official to postpone missile talks until after his reelection, because in obama’s words, he’s have more flexibility to work with the Russians, after his last election, therefore after he was answerable?

(2) did three democrats in the us senate ask ukraine to
investigate their political opponents, or did they not?

(3) did biden, or did he not, brag about withholding ukrainian aid if they didn’t fire a prosecutor, at a time when his son had a lucrative job for which his qualifications were questionable, at a ukrainian company known to be corrupt?

all of that is wrong? no truth there?

have you thought about where you’ll hide in 2020 if it doesn’t go your way?

i’m not even a little bit of a
prick. but i’ll call your crap when
you lob it at me.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you called me misinformed, then have the sack to ask
me to drop the insults.

i have it all wrong? i’ll go slowly...

(1)did obama, or did he not, ask
a russian official to postpone missile talks until after his reelection, because in obama’s words, he’s have more flexibility to work with the Russians, after his last election, therefore after he was answerable?

(2) did three democrats in the us senate ask ukraine to
investigate their political opponents, or did they not?

(3) did biden, or did he not, brag about withholding ukrainian aid if they didn’t fire a prosecutor, at a time when his son had a lucrative job for which his qualifications were questionable, at a ukrainian company known to be corrupt?

all of that is wrong? no truth there?

have you thought about where you’ll hide in 2020 if it doesn’t go your way?

i’m not even a little bit of a
prick. but i’ll call your crap when
you lob it at me.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim they are all irrelevant to the topic and what Trump did .. with hold aid . Unless a foreign goverment gave him dirt on a political opponent..

None of your examples are remotely the same no matter how you insist their the same ..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Jim they are all irrelevant to the topic and what Trump did .. with hold aid . Unless a foreign goverment gave him dirt on a political opponent..

None of your examples are remotely the same no matter how you insist their the same ..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

it’s very easy to say “‘those aren’t the same.”. please
explain the specific differences. i assume there’s a reason you didn’t do that.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you called me misinformed, then have the sack to ask
me to drop the insults.

i have it all wrong? i’ll go slowly...

(1)did obama, or did he not, ask
a russian official to postpone missile talks until after his reelection, because in obama’s words, he’s have more flexibility to work with the Russians, after his last election, therefore after he was answerable?

What's the illegal action? Starting negotiations after an election is not illegal.
Obama was quoted the following day saying he wasn’t trying to “hide the ball,” and would carry through with negotiations with Russia. In May 2016, after nearly a decade of planning (and over the continued objections of Russia), the NATO missile defense system in Europe was finally launched.

(2) did three democrats in the us senate ask ukraine to
investigate their political opponents, or did they not?

The three senators sent this public letter https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/m...estigation.pdf asking the Ukrainian Prosecutor General to answer some questions regarding interference and cooperation with the ongoing Mueller investigation.

(3) did biden, or did he not, brag about withholding ukrainian aid if they didn’t fire a prosecutor, at a time when his son had a lucrative job for which his qualifications were questionable, at a ukrainian company known to be corrupt?

He absolutely bragged about it as he should have. But you missed the facts to push another fairy tale.
Ukraine has long struggled to combat corruption, and anti-graft efforts scaled up in the wake of the 2014 Ukrainian revolution that toppled then-President Viktor Yanukovych.
Paul Manafort spent from 2004 to 2014 as a consultant to Ukraine's Party of Regions and its standardbearer, Viktor Yanukovych.
In 2014, then-Vice President Biden’s son Hunter joined the board of Burisma Holdings, a large private Ukrainian gas firm. Also in 2014, the firm’s owner, Mykola Zlochevsky (the former Ukrainian ecology minister and a political ally of Yanukovych), came under investigation for corrupt business dealings. In 2015, Viktor Shokin was appointed to the role of prosecutor general and thus assumed control over the investigation into Zlochevsky and his businesses.

Following cries from observers about Shokin’s own ineptitude and corruption and pressure from Vice President Biden, among others, Shokin was fired in 2016. Shokin’s firing drew praise from Western observers, including from the European Union’s envoy to Ukraine, who noted that the firing of Shokin “creates an opportunity to make a fresh start in the prosecutor general’s office” and expressed “hope that the new prosecutor general will ensure that [his] office ... becomes independent from political influence and pressure and enjoys public trust.”

Notably, Ukraine’s then-Prosecutor General Yuriy Lutsenko stated in May 2019 that he was aware of no evidence of criminal wrongdoing by Hunter Biden. The New York Times reports that “no evidence has surfaced to support” President Trump’s allegations that the former vice president sought to dismiss Shokin in order to help his son.

all of that is wrong? no truth there?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

All good false narratives have connections to the truth, but the dots don't connect.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

All good false narratives have connections to the truth, but the dots don't connect.

"What's the illegal action?

I didn't say there was an illegal action. I said it's an example of Obama asking a foreign power for a favor which would help him get reelected (obviously,Obama didn't want the voters to know his intentions regarding Russian missiles until after his election was behind him). Does that sound familiar, sound like any part of why Trump is being impeached? If it's OK for Obama to ask for a favor which would benefit him politically, why can't Trump do it?

"Obama was quoted the following day saying he wasn’t trying to “hide the ball,”"

And if you're going to believe what Obama says in a prepared statement after he got caught on a hot mic and take his word for it, we can take Trump at his word.

"The three senators sent this public letter https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/m...estigation.pdf asking the Ukrainian Prosecutor General to answer some questions regarding interference and cooperation with the ongoing Mueller investigation. "

In other words, they asked a foreign power to assist/investigate in getting dirt on a political rival. Does that sound familiar, sound like any part of why Trump is being impeached? If it's OK for senate democrats to ask a foreign power to assist in the investigation of a political rival, why isn't it OK for Trump to do it?

As to Biden, your response completely ignored the evidence that Biden's family, namely his son, personally benefitted from Biden's actions as VP. You dodged that issue completely. But if Biden can use the leverage of a quid pro quo to benefit his son, why can't Trump do the same to benefit himself? I'm not saying the prosecutor didn't deserve to be fired, I'm saying someone else should have pressured them to do it, someone whose son didn't have a lot at risk.

None of this will matter. He's probably getting impeached in the house, obviously not convicted in they Senate, and the voters can decide if the impeachment was legit or a sham based on previous similar actions that were OK at the time, and which you defend today.

Then the IG and Durham reports will come out, which you have already made up your mind are a sham, and which most conservatives have already made up their minds is legit.

I go where facts and common sense take me. In this case, I can make a very compelling case that Trump is being held to a different standard than Obama, senate democrats, and Biden. I don't believe that because I want it to be true (that's what you and Spence do), I believe it because the facts suggest it's true. If Trump in fact committed an impeachable offense, I'd be happy to see him impeached, I like Pence a lot better. Nicer guy, more truly conservative.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"What's the illegal action?

I didn't say there was an illegal action. I said it's an example of Obama asking a foreign power for a favor which would help him get reelected (obviously,Obama didn't want the voters to know his intentions regarding Russian missiles until after his election was behind him). Does that sound familiar, sound like any part of why Trump is being impeached? If it's OK for Obama to ask for a favor which would benefit him politically, why can't Trump do it?
Because it is a violation of his oath of office, to ask a foreign government for assistance in his election.

"Obama was quoted the following day saying he wasn’t trying to “hide the ball,”"

And if you're going to believe what Obama says in a prepared statement after he got caught on a hot mic and take his word for it, we can take Trump at his word.

"The three senators sent this public letter https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/m...estigation.pdf asking the Ukrainian Prosecutor General to answer some questions regarding interference and cooperation with the ongoing Mueller investigation. "

In other words, they asked a foreign power to assist/investigate in getting dirt on a political rival. Does that sound familiar, sound like any part of why Trump is being impeached? If it's OK for senate democrats to ask a foreign power to assist in the investigation of a political rival, why isn't it OK for Trump to do it?

I guess it would have been ok if instead of sending an official letter as members of Congress, they had asked Rudy to do it for them with the assistance of a couple hirelings of Russian Oligarchs

As to Biden, your response completely ignored the evidence that Biden's family, namely his son, personally benefitted from Biden's actions as VP. You dodged that issue completely. But if Biden can use the leverage of a quid pro quo to benefit his son, why can't Trump do the same to benefit himself? I'm not saying the prosecutor didn't deserve to be fired, I'm saying someone else should have pressured them to do it, someone whose son didn't have a lot at risk.

What evidence is there that Hunter Biden's hiring was in exchange for anything? As far as pressure goes, lot's of other organizations wanted the corruption in Ukraine stopped, Biden was chosen to be the spokesman for the USA.

None of this will matter. He's probably getting impeached in the house, obviously not convicted in they Senate, and the voters can decide if the impeachment was legit or a sham based on previous similar actions that were OK at the time, and which you defend today.

Then the IG and Durham reports will come out, which you have already made up your mind are a sham, and which most conservatives have already made up their minds is legit.

I go where facts and common sense take me. In this case, I can make a very compelling case that Trump is being held to a different standard than Obama, senate democrats, and Biden. I don't believe that because I want it to be true (that's what you and Spence do), I believe it because the facts suggest it's true. If Trump in fact committed an impeachable offense, I'd be happy to see him impeached, I like Pence a lot better. Nicer guy, more truly conservative.

Kelley told Trump that if he hired a yes-man, he would be impeached.
There are plenty of people in this administration that know the truth and it is starting to open up.
Sondland is next, he will recant his testimony and I expect, admit that Trump told him to say there is no quid pro quo.
This is not the Trump Organization, it's the US government and it is hard to hide the underhanded BS like Trump did for years in his business. There's a reason he was party to thousands of lawsuits, in fact if you google "party to thousands of lawsuits" guess who is number one.
Things in Trumpland will crash fast, until weeks before his resignation Republicans stood firmly behind Nixon.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Kelley told Trump that if he hired a yes-man, he would be impeached.
There are plenty of people in this administration that know the truth and it is starting to open up.
Sondland is next, he will recant his testimony and I expect, admit that Trump told him to say there is no quid pro quo.
This is not the Trump Organization, it's the US government and it is hard to hide the underhanded BS like Trump did for years in his business. There's a reason he was party to thousands of lawsuits, in fact if you google "party to thousands of lawsuits" guess who is number one.
Things in Trumpland will crash fast, until weeks before his resignation Republicans stood firmly behind Nixon.

"Because it is a violation of his oath of office, to ask a foreign government for assistance in his election"

You mean it's a violationwhen Trump did it, not when Obama did it.

"I guess it would have been ok if instead of sending an official letter as members of Congress, they had asked Rudy to do it for them with the assistance of a couple hirelings of Russian Oligarchs "

Huh? Now you're saying what Trump did was wrong, because he didn't use official letterhead to make the request? Sure, that makes sense...You're talking absolute gibberish now.

"What evidence is there that Hunter Biden's hiring was in exchange for anything?"

So there's nothing to see, that Hunter got a very lucrative job on the board of a ukranian energy company. And he got that job not because his father was the Executive branch's point person in Ukraine, but because he was the most qualified for that job., based on getting kicked out of the Navy for drug use. And all the stories that the prosecutor was getting ready to look at this energy company are unfounded. They must be unfounded, because if it was legitimate, it would hurt the Bidens.

"Kelley told Trump that if he hired a yes-man, he would be impeached."

I love General Kelly.

"Things in Trumpland will crash fast"

You say so.

And let me take a wild guess. You predict that the IG report and Durhams report on the possible wrongdoings in the origins of the Russian probe, will be a nothingburger. The fact that Durham is a very accomplished prosecutor, and had this changed to a criminal probe, means nothing, that's just Trump being vindictive, it's not humanly possible that the Obama DOJ was acting as hired security for the Clinton campaign. You already know it's impossible, even though nothing in the investigations has been released. Do I have that right?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Because it is a violation of his oath of office, to ask a foreign government for assistance in his election"

You mean it's a violationwhen Trump did it, not when Obama did it.
No, not doing something is different than "do me a favor", it is legal. Bribery is not.

"I guess it would have been ok if instead of sending an official letter as members of Congress, they had asked Rudy to do it for them with the assistance of a couple hirelings of Russian Oligarchs "

Huh? Now you're saying what Trump did was wrong, because he didn't use official letterhead to make the request? Sure, that makes sense...You're talking absolute gibberish now.

No, I was being facetious. What Trump did "do me a favor" in return for aid was a violation of his oath of office. The Senators asking for aid to an official investigation of the US government was not.


"What evidence is there that Hunter Biden's hiring was in exchange for anything?"

So there's nothing to see, that Hunter got a very lucrative job on the board of a ukranian energy company. And he got that job not because his father was the Executive branch's point person in Ukraine, but because he was the most qualified for that job., based on getting kicked out of the Navy for drug use. And all the stories that the prosecutor was getting ready to look at this energy company are unfounded. They must be unfounded, because if it was legitimate, it would hurt the Bidens.

What is illegal about that? Unethical at best, but what law was broken? He doesn't have a wimpy CV prior to 2014.

After graduating from law school, Biden took a position at MBNA America, a major bank holding company which was also a major contributor to his father's political campaigns. By 1998, he had risen to the rank of executive vice president. From 1998 to 2001, he served in the United States Department of Commerce, focusing on ecommerce policy. Biden became a lobbyist in 2001, co-founding the firm of Oldaker, Biden & Belair. According to Adam Entous of The New Yorker, Biden and his father established a relationship in which "Biden wouldn't ask Hunter about his lobbying clients, and Hunter wouldn't tell his father about them." In 2006, Biden and his uncle, James Biden, attempted to buy Paradigm, a hedge-fund group, but the deal fell apart before completion. That same year, Biden was appointed by President George W. Bush to the board of directors of Amtrak; he was on the board of Amtrak from 2006 to 2009.

Later career, 2009–present
After his father was elected as vice president in 2008, Biden resigned from his position on the Amtrak board of directors and left his career as a lobbyist. Along with Christopher Heinz, stepson of John Kerry, and Devon Archer, Biden founded the investment firm Rosemont Seneca.

He also became an attorney with the law firm Boies Schiller Flexner LLP, and founded Eudora Global, a venture capital firm.

"Kelley told Trump that if he hired a yes-man, he would be impeached."

I love General Kelly.

"Things in Trumpland will crash fast"

You say so.

And let me take a wild guess. You predict that the IG report and Durhams report on the possible wrongdoings in the origins of the Russian probe, will be a nothingburger. The fact that Durham is a very accomplished prosecutor, and had this changed to a criminal probe, means nothing, that's just Trump being vindictive, it's not humanly possible that the Obama DOJ was acting as hired security for the Clinton campaign. You already know it's impossible, even though nothing in the investigations has been released. Do I have that right?

Now your Adderall is kicking in.
We will see what Durham finds won't we?
You certainly believe in a deep state plot.
Durham’s reputation as a professional prosecutor “known for his modesty and restraint” gives reason for hope that this criminal investigation isn’t a runaway, politically-motivated escapade.

Barr’s reputation as a shameless toady gives reason to suspect the opposite.

We simply don’t know which sensibility is driving the investigation.

We’ll know soon enough. But until then, it’s probably best not to read too much into this development.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in Ct

If Trump in fact committed an impeachable offense, I'd be happy to see him impeached, I like Pence a lot better. Nicer guy, more truly conservative.

Pence needs to join with Republicans to survive, Trump will drag him down with him.
“The people around the Vice President are increasingly worried because he has his own political ambitions. It's no secret to anyone that he aspires to potentially run some day for President, and this could wind up being a real blemish on him"
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Pence needs to join with Republicans to survive, Trump will drag him down with him.
“The people around the Vice President are increasingly worried because he has his own political ambitions. It's no secret to anyone that he aspires to potentially run some day for President, and this could wind up being a real blemish on him"
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

wow, an anonymous quote. good enough for me.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

wow, an anonymous quote. good enough for me.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Pence's career is over -fittingly will go down with the Trump Titanic
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device