Forbes issues warning

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by scottw

nobody ever does this

where have you been? Did you go tarpon fishing again?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

where have you been? Did you go tarpon fishing again?

soon...you are more than welcome to join me for a few days...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Jim are you really stating the extremely small sampling the Gallup poll takes is a true representation of the millions of Americans? Please stop suggesting we refuse to acknowledge the good things Trump has done, the simple truth is many, myself included, don’t see them as good. But hang in there, your defense ordeal is almost over, a vacation for your efforts is days away.

ok. so al of a sudden, you have reason to suspect their science is flawed. it may well be, but Gallup has been around for awhile, and i don’t recall you being skeptical. or are you only skeptical of polls you disagree with.

tax cuts
low unemployment
lowest black unemployment ever
soaring stock market
criminal justice reform
energy independence
peace accords in middle east
increased funding for black colleges
routing ISIS
no kids dying in questionable wars
very pro Israel

now, that’s not a comprehensive list of results, it’s only a list of what I’d call positive results. he had some big failures, did nothing to expand healthcare to the poor, etc. it also completely ignores his personality.

but when i look at that list, and i see a poll that says 56% of americans feel those things , altogether, improved their lives, i’m not sure
my reaction is to be doubtful. i would doubt that many americans would respond favorably to those things.

Do you?

if anyone else had accomplished these things, how different would the conversation be? and again, that doesn’t mean i think we should ignore his ethics, he absolutely should be measured by that as well.

But the democrats here seem completely unable
to ever talk about anything other than his horrible personality. that’s part of his presidency, but is it literally all there is? i don’t think it’s honest to ignore the good. When i say that, you guys tend to respond as if i’m saying ignore the bad, and i’ve never said that.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

ok. so al of a sudden, you have reason to suspect their science is flawed. it may well be, but Gallup has been around for awhile, and i don’t recall you being skeptical. or are you only skeptical of polls you disagree with.

tax cuts
low unemployment
lowest black unemployment ever
soaring stock market
criminal justice reform
energy independence
peace accords in middle east
increased funding for black colleges
routing ISIS
no kids dying in questionable wars
very pro Israel

now, that’s not a comprehensive list of results, it’s only a list of what I’d call positive results. he had some big failures, did nothing to expand healthcare to the poor, etc. it also completely ignores his personality.

but when i look at that list, and i see a poll that says 56% of americans feel those things , altogether, improved their lives, i’m not sure
my reaction is to be doubtful. i would doubt that many americans would respond favorably to those things.

Do you?

if anyone else had accomplished these things, how different would the conversation be? and again, that doesn’t mean i think we should ignore his ethics, he absolutely should be measured by that as well.

But the democrats here seem completely unable
to ever talk about anything other than his horrible personality. that’s part of his presidency, but is it literally all there is? i don’t think it’s honest to ignore the good. When i say that, you guys tend to respond as if i’m saying ignore the bad, and i’ve never said that.
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After four years of Tweety, America is poorer, sicker, less respected in the world, monumentally more in debt and more divided than any time since Civil War. Under him, Republicans lost WH, Senate and House. Think about it. Was it worth it?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

After four years of Tweety, America is poorer, sicker, less respected in the world, monumentally more in debt and more divided than any time since Civil War. Under him, Republicans lost WH, Senate and House. Think about it. Was it worth it?

before the deaths at the capital i would have said well worth it. i still
think it was.

Obama left the democrats holding fewer elected positions than any time since the civil war. was he worth it? did you ever ask that question ( no, you didn’t).

If the democrats give voting rights to illegals, poof, TX is blue and you won’t see a republican president for decades at least. i dont know why they wouldn’t do that. i don’t know f joe manchin is committed to stopping them.

if they don’t do that, all the gop needs to do is run someone who will
deliver Trump-like policies without the immense personal baggage.

Make no mistake, 2020 was a complete disaster for the GOP. But they’re way better off then they were at this point in 2009 when obama
had a much larger majority in the house and a filibuster proof
majority in the senate. and the gop came roaring back from that.

which is exactly why i can’t see why they wouldn’t secure voting rights for illegals.
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[Pete F.]

You just have to watch the House Republicans defending Tweety today

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

After four years of Tweety, America is poorer, sicker, less respected in the world, monumentally more in debt and more divided than any time since Civil War. Under him, Republicans lost WH, Senate and House. Think about it. Was it worth it?

After three years of Trump (can't call him Tweety anymore--been lifetime banned from it) what you said is mostly false. That fourth year saw the whole world become sicker and poorer (not sure about China, but nobody can be sure that what China says is true). Putting the sicker and poorer on Trump is not honest. We would have been poorer and sicker under any other President given the pandemic.

Being divided is a two way highway. One side is not the sole problem. Pointing fingers at the other guy doesn't solve it. The division has been growing for a long while. Remember the divide between the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street? Couldn't get more divided than that. The aftermath of those two movements morphed into the current parties. If you don't think the likes of Ocasio, Rashida, Ilhan, and the rise of the social justice/Post Modern/and Socialist elements in the Democrat Party are not equal partners in the division between them and traditionalist, "conservative" America, and prefer to put the blame on Trump, I, even further than usual, question your honesty, as well as your ability to think rationally, logically, or with some common sense.

You are, obviously, very intelligent. But you betray that by abandoning total honesty and using divisive, deceitful rhetoric. I understand the use of the rhetorical version of scorched earth in order to totally defeat an ideological or political opponent. But that is war, not honest dialog. Winning a war does not necessarily make a country, or a party, or a person, just, wise truthful, and good. It does not make you right in the battleground of ideas. It can lead to the opposite of all that is good. Many evil people and regimes have won wars and created misery and oppression.

If you are seen as tricky, deceitful, in dialog, your opinions are not trusted. You are far more likely persuade those who disagree with you if your argument is rigorously honest. Ranting, raving, and demagoguery is more likely to divide us than unite us.

[Pete F.]

History judges on the whole of a persons performance.

The divide is like between the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street?
One a powerful part of a major party and the other a splinter group?

Yes, Occupy Wall Street is like the left wing of the democratic party, but the Trumplican Cult is far to the right of most Americans.

Few people see Nixon as having a good record, well then again you wouldn't be happy with his successes anyways.

[Got Stripers]

Ten republicans voted yes and Trump has no social media account to spew his hate for them, it’s going to be a rough night in the residence.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

History judges on the whole of a persons performance.

Is history already judging? Are you a historian in judgement? What particular history are you referring to? Henry Ford said "History is more or less bunk."

I think he was partially right. Depends on how accurate and truthful it is.

Pure history doesn't judge. It records. If history is of any use to us other than some sort of academic pleasure, if it is used as a tool in making general or particular judgments on how to live in the present, then the more accurate, the more truthful it is, the more valuable it is.

What we say today is only useful to the future if it is true. So it behooves us to make accurate, truthful, arguments and reports. Commentary that is speculative, conjectural, rather than factual, can mislead those in the future who depend on the record of what we say today. And that can lead to false judgments and failed societies who read them as truth.

The divide is like between the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street?

I didn't say that. I mentioned it as an example of the major division that was already brewing well before Trump. In my opinion, Trump is a result of our huge divide, not the cause of it.

One a powerful part of a major party and the other a splinter group?

They were developing trends. They were indicators of which direction the parties were going. Of what message either party would use to give the base a choice. Many establishment Republicans were afraid of the Tea Party, considered it a splinter group of sorts, and helped to eventually marginalize it. Especially after it helped them to win elections, they pretty much abandoned anything to do with it.

Yes, Occupy Wall Street is like the left wing of the democratic party, but the Trumplican Cult is far to the right of most Americans.

Few people see Nixon as having a good record, well then again you wouldn't be happy with his successes anyways.

Trump won in 2016 and reportedly got 74 million votes in 2020. That's a pretty huge "cult." And he doesn't seem to be far right, whatever that is. How many times does he have to condemn white supremacy, if that's what you mean by far right. He got a greater percentage of Black and Latino votes than many previous Republican Presidents.

You're deep into labeling and branding. To me that's an escape from fact to metaphor. Not very useful, other than to smear and deceitfully win political war.

And Nixon was quite Progressive, whatever that's worth. Nixon is refried political leftovers. Feast on him as much as you want. Not interested at this time.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by detbuch

How many times does he have to condemn white supremacy .

Easy answer, every time he is asked to do so, especially since it’s now well documented by the FBI and all intelligence agencies, white supremacy lead domestic terrorist attacks are this nations biggest threat, not the radical international terrorists.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Easy answer, every time he is asked to do so, especially since it’s now well documented by the FBI and all intelligence agencies, white supremacy lead domestic terrorist attacks are this nations biggest threat, not the radical international terrorists.

Oh, you mean that he may have changed his mind. Should we check in with him every week or so to make sure he hasn't changed his mind? How often should we ask Biden if he condemns Antifa?

What and who does white supremacy lead? And by how much? And what is the actual number and frequency of the attacks? Does the FBI mean, by "lead," that there are actually other terrorists? Should we not be concerned about there threat because they don't have the lead?

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Oh, you mean that he may have changed his mind. Should we check in with him every week or so to make sure he hasn't changed his mind? How often should we ask Biden if he condemns Antifa?

What and who does white supremacy lead? And by how much? And what is the actual number and frequency of the attacks? Does the FBI mean, by "lead," that there are actually other terrorists? Should we not be concerned about there threat because they don't have the lead?

You must be living in a bubble, I guess you think the organizers of the capital breach were normal every day run of the mill republicans, just looking to exercise their peaceful right to protest.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

You must be living in a bubble, I guess you think the organizers of the capital breach were normal every day run of the mill republicans, just looking to exercise their peaceful right to protest.

Nope. Don't think that. Never said that or anything like that. The rioters should be prosecuted. What did I say to evoke this response from you?

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Nope. Don't think that. Never said that or anything like that. The rioters should be prosecuted. What did I say to evoke this response from you?

Don’t hold your breath waiting for a sensible response.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

You must be living in a bubble, I guess you think the organizers of the capital breach were normal every day run of the mill republicans, just looking to exercise their peaceful right to protest.

i’d also like to know what he said here, that could possibly lead you to that conclusion.
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[scottw]

no rest for the bitter left

[Pete F.]

From the notorious left wing rag

The public warnings that law enforcement missed before Capitol riots

White nationalists, private militias had openly described plans

DHS official tells me:

“It was no different than Charlottesville...We were caught with our pants down.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/extremi...bshare_twitter

[PaulS]

Pete, you might have some company. Looks like Republicans are trying to cancel Chaney.
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[Pete F.]

UPDATE: "ANTIFA" ARRESTS SINCE JAN. 6 REMAIN far closer to ZERO
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

UPDATE: "ANTIFA" ARRESTS SINCE JAN. 6 REMAIN ZERO
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John Sullivan

ironically the founder of the civil rights group "Insurgence USA"

well known blm/antifa punk

John Sullivan was arrested and charged on January 14th, according to the Department of Justice, with “one count of knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority, one count of violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds, and one count of interfering with law enforcement engaged in the lawful performance of their official duties incident to and during the commission of civil disorder.”

[Pete F.]

"9 in 10 Americans oppose the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol, seven in 10 say Donald Trump bears at least some responsibility for it and a majority in a new ABC/WaPo poll – 56% – favors efforts in Congress to bar him from holding elected office again."
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[scottw]

oh good...meaningless snapshot polls from corrupt news organizations

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by scottw

oh good...meaningless snapshot polls from corrupt news organizations

Quiet, don’t tell Jim snapshot polls are meaningless.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Quiet, don’t tell Jim snapshot polls are meaningless.

🤦
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Traitors

Quiet, don’t tell Jim snapshot polls are meaningless.

I think you did...perhaps you should inform pete as well....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Traitors View Post

"are you really stating the extremely small sampling the XYZ poll takes is a true representation of the millions of Americans?"


it's funny how many things sail right over your head...

[Pete F.]

I didn’t think I had to quote him for people to get it.
You proved that I was correct
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I didn’t think I had to quote him for people to get it.
You proved that I was correct
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

correct about what pete? you are off to a slow start...

[scottw]

hey pete...let's not skip over what you were wrong about...I think it's fair to wonder how John Sullivan was able to get all the way into the Capitol building amongst all of those violent and angry racists ....apparently unscathed....

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by scottw

I think you did...perhaps you should inform pete as well....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Traitors View Post

"are you really stating the extremely small sampling the XYZ poll takes is a true representation of the millions of Americans?"


it's funny how many things sail right over your head...

Wow thanks captain obvious for pointing out something I was aware I posted, but thanks for reinforcing my jab at Jim.