Truth and trust abandoned...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Actually we've never been here before.

Exactly here? No we haven't. But your side spent a lot of energy from 2017-2020, trying to find a way to undo the election. Because they hated the results.

I remember back after the 2016 election, many prominent liberals were calling on electors to give their votes to someone other than Trump. There was a LOT of that talk, there were TV commercials airing, it was everywhere in liberal circles, pleas for the electoral college to ignore the will of the people. I'll bet everything I have against the change in your pocket, that you didn't call that out for undermining democracy. Did you?

So while the specifics here are different (no two situations are exactly identical in every detail), both were cases of attempts to undermine a democratic election. One of those attempts was fine with you (there were actually multiple attempts, starting with begging the electoral college to vote for someone else, to calling for impeachment before he was sworn in, etc, but let's put them all in one bucket), the other is horrifying. The only difference, is the partisan aspect, which as we all know, is everything to you.

Try. Making. That. Wrong.

[Pete F.]

From the last election, I wonder who the Republicans were listening to?
Insert stupid period thing here......

A historic number of “faithless” electors -- seven in total--each cast their ballots on Monday for a candidate other than the one who won his or her state. What may be more surprising, given the level of protests against Donald Trump and the pressure exerted on Republican electors, is that a greater number were untrue to Hillary Clinton than to Mr. Trump.


Among the 538 electors chosen to represent their states in the Electoral College, five were faithless to the Democratic nominee and two to the Republican. Prior to this year, there hasn’t been more than one faithless elector in any presidential election since 1948.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

So when you complain about republicans subverting democracy, it's not pertinent for anyone to ask why you don't care when democrats do it?

It's a lot easier for you to call me Mr Whatboutism, than it is for you to admit your glaring hypocrisy, I guess.

How else do you point out naked hypocrisy, than to engage it whatboutism? Are you saying it's not worthwhile to avoid hypocrisy? Seems like that's what you're saying.

And your side no longer likes the word "mister", so you should use a non-binary phrase instead of calling me Mr Whataboutism,. shouldn't you?

Talking about impeachment is a political gamesmanship thing before a presidential election and Trump is more guilty of that crap than anyone; sh*t who hasn't he threatened with legal action these past four years.

Big difference when the sitting president and his boot licking republicans are attempting to tell citizens of this country, their vote doesn't matter and in the process steel an election that has already been certified.

Nobody is surprised about it sadly, because Trump has been announcing his plans for the past year, probably in an attempt to suppress the vote; ironically he probably is single handedly responsible for the biggest turnout in history.

These republicans are stepping up to fight for leadership roles in the new Trump style republican party, which it now apparently has become.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Talking about impeachment is a political gamesmanship thing before a presidential election and Trump is more guilty of that crap than anyone; sh*t who hasn't he threatened with legal action these past four years.

Big difference when the sitting president and his boot licking republicans are attempting to tell citizens of this country, their vote doesn't matter and in the process steel an election that has already been certified.

Nobody is surprised about it sadly, because Trump has been announcing his plans for the past year, probably in an attempt to suppress the vote; ironically he probably is single handedly responsible for the biggest turnout in history.

These republicans are stepping up to fight for leadership roles in the new Trump style republican party, which it now apparently has become.

"Talking about impeachment is a political gamesmanship thing before a presidential election "

They did it after the election, before the inauguration. It was one of may attempts to undermine the election. But you can dismiss it as gamesmanship.

"Trump is more guilty of that crap than anyone"

NOW WHO IS GUILTY OF WHATABOUTISM? As always, it's OK when you do it, only problematic when I do it?

"Big difference when the sitting president and his boot licking republicans are attempting to tell citizens of this country, their vote doesn't matter "

Again, democrats also tried to tell Americans that their vote doesn't matter, by trying to get electors (after the 2016 election) not to cast their votes for Trump, and by spending the better part of 4 years trying to find a way to remove him from office. When republicans try to say elections don't matter, you say that's bad (and I agree). When democrats do it, you dismiss it.

[Pete F.]

NO. The Democrats did not decline to accept defeat in 2016. Hillary Clinton conceded, albeit with insinuations that the Russians had helped Trump. But grumbling about your loss is a far cry from contesting it. A few Democrats lodged complaints about the vote in January 2017 when the Electoral College results were read out. Joe Biden, the then-president of the Senate and sitting vice-president handled those matters as he should according to the Constitution.

And playing your silly game about how "there are allegations of" is baloney, it matters now. Never more than now. It isn’t about the precedent that this might set for some imagined Democratic abuse of the future. The abuse is here. The abuse of power is now. This is a constitutional crisis because one party has decided that it cares more for power than for the American system. Giving one iota of support for Trump’s unconstitutional coup attempt is discrediting for every person, politician and commentator who fails to call it out loudly and unequivocally. A decent few, like Senators Ben Sasse and Mitt Romney have done so. Find your voice, or don’t insult the rest of us by calling yourself a patriot.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

NO. The Democrats did not decline to accept defeat in 2016. .

Bonkers and dishonest. God forbid you be critical of your side.

The only thing that democrats didn't say about 2016, was that they lost fair and square. They made every other conceivable claim. Including putting pressure on electors to vote for someone other than Trump after the election. Sorry Pete, that happened. Just because you can't being yourself to admit how terrifying that is, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[Got Stripers]

Jim I think same aged cheese would go nicely with your whine.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

The only thing that democrats didn't say about 2016, was that they lost fair and square. They made every other conceivable claim. Including putting pressure on electors to vote for someone other than Trump after the election. Sorry Pete, that happened. Just because you can't being yourself to admit how terrifying that is, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I had never even heard of Dems putting pressure on electors until you brought it up. Looks like is was mostly a few disgruntled Sanders supporters.

Jim, there’s no parallel for this. A sitting president just brazenly committed what is most likely election fraud and his base couldn’t care otherwise.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Hypocrite much

By David Hogarty • Published November 6, 2008 • Updated on November 6, 2008 at 2:11 pm

President-elect Barack Obama won't be inaugurated for another ten weeks, but groups are already forming on the Internet to call for his impeachment.

Several groups exist on the social networking site Facebook, calling for the removal of Obama from office for a number of reasons, including planning to not uphold the Constitution of the United States and campaign finance violations.

Impeach Barack Obama was formed under the assumption that the winner of Tuesday's election will waste little time in violating his oath of office and already has more than 2,500 members on Facebook:

"This group has been created under the assumption that it takes approximately 7 seconds for a modern day President to violate this oath. So we should be ready."

Impeach Barack Hussein Obama seems mostly concerned with the Democrat's prior support for an assault weapons ban and accusations that he's a closet Marxist.

"Obama has voiced support for various unconstitutional programs such as the assault weapons ban, universal healthcare, and various schemes for wealth distribution. What are we going to do about it? RESIST SOCIALISM! IMPEACH HIM!

might as well start before he gets in office."

Originally Posted by Pete F.

From the last election, I wonder who the Republicans were listening to?
Insert stupid period thing here......

A historic number of “faithless” electors -- seven in total--each cast their ballots on Monday for a candidate other than the one who won his or her state. What may be more surprising, given the level of protests against Donald Trump and the pressure exerted on Republican electors, is that a greater number were untrue to Hillary Clinton than to Mr. Trump.


Among the 538 electors chosen to represent their states in the Electoral College, five were faithless to the Democratic nominee and two to the Republican. Prior to this year, there hasn’t been more than one faithless elector in any presidential election since 1948.

Originally Posted by Pete F.

NO. The Democrats did not decline to accept defeat in 2016. Hillary Clinton conceded, albeit with insinuations that the Russians had helped Trump. But grumbling about your loss is a far cry from contesting it. A few Democrats lodged complaints about the vote in January 2017 when the Electoral College results were read out. Joe Biden, the then-president of the Senate and sitting vice-president handled those matters as he should according to the Constitution.

And playing your silly game about how "there are allegations of" is baloney, it matters now. Never more than now. It isn’t about the precedent that this might set for some imagined Democratic abuse of the future. The abuse is here. The abuse of power is now. This is a constitutional crisis because one party has decided that it cares more for power than for the American system. Giving one iota of support for Trump’s unconstitutional coup attempt is discrediting for every person, politician and commentator who fails to call it out loudly and unequivocally. A decent few, like Senators Ben Sasse and Mitt Romney have done so. Find your voice, or don’t insult the rest of us by calling yourself a patriot.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Bonkers and dishonest. God forbid you be critical of your side.

The only thing that democrats didn't say about 2016, was that they lost fair and square. They made every other conceivable claim. Including putting pressure on electors to vote for someone other than Trump after the election. Sorry Pete, that happened. Just because you can't being yourself to admit how terrifying that is, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

You consistently ignore history to repeat Trumplican tropes.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Jim I think same aged cheese would go nicely with your whine.

don’t know what to suggest to pair with lies and denial, you can figure it out.

again, instead of insulting me, can you offer any evidence that you’re not engaging in hypocrisy and double standards?

why was it ok for democrats to spend every waking moment for 4 years to undermine the results of an election that didn’t go their way, but it’s bad when republicans do the same thing.

i assume there’s a reason why certification was made part of the process. IF i didn’t think an election was honest, i wouldn’t certify that it was. that doesn’t mean i like what the gop is doing here.

i don’t know to what degree there was fraud and cheating, but not one lefty here, not one, has expressed any skepticism at all, about vote counters being sent home at the same exact time that all the votes started going do biden in swing states. it could well be a harmless coincidence, i don’t know. i’m ready for it to be over, for sure. i’m bored with it all.


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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I had never even heard of Dems putting pressure on electors until you brought it up. Looks like is was mostly a few disgruntled Sanders supporters.

Jim, there’s no parallel for this. A sitting president just brazenly committed what is most likely election fraud and his base couldn’t care otherwise.
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dems putting pressure on electors was everywhere after the 2016 election. you were probably still too morbidly depressed, but i’m no making it up. it didn’t get the traction that decertification has now within the GOP. but neither did it get any public resistance from anyone i. the left. None.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

dems putting pressure on electors was everywhere after the 2016 election. you were probably still too morbidly depressed, but i’m no making it up. it didn’t get the traction that decertification has now within the GOP. but neither did it get any public resistance from anyone i. the left. None.
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Spence is playing drama queen again
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

Spence is playing drama queen again
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it makes democrats look bad? in that case, it didn’t happen.

scott, you and i have had respectful but spirited disagreements here, as i’ve had with Detbuch and dangles. these guys are engaging in one, big circle jerk of TDS.
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[Pete F.]

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

I had never even heard of Dems putting pressure on electors until you brought it up. Looks like is was mostly a few disgruntled Sanders supporters.

Jim, there’s no parallel for this. A sitting president just brazenly committed what is most likely election fraud and his base couldn’t care otherwise.
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If his base couldn’t care otherwise then why did a person who most likely identifies as R start this thread.
Stop being dramatic Jeff, your turtleneck is cutting off your circulation or Paul stole your password.

[Pete F.]

When will the Always Trumpers admit the Never Trumpers were right?

Tonight is a good night for everyone to remind themselves that Joe Biden absolutely blew Trump out of the water.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

If his base couldn’t care otherwise then why did a person who most likely identifies as R start this thread.
Stop being dramatic Jeff, your turtleneck is cutting off your circulation or Paul stole your password.

Just got another PM on another site from a member here stating what a scummy person you are and some instances from your past.

It is amazing that that has happened multiple times.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

dbut neither did it get any public resistance from anyone i. the left. None.
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THAT'S BECAUSE NOBODY KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT IT

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

THAT'S BECAUSE NOBODY KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT IT

or everyone knew, but many people aren’t capable of criticizing their own side. do you think you fall into that category?
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

If his base couldn’t care otherwise then why did a person who most likely identifies as R start this thread.
Stop being dramatic Jeff, your turtleneck is cutting off your circulation or Paul stole your password.

Please reread your post, think, then edit if you feel appropriate.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

or everyone knew, but many people aren’t capable of criticizing their own side. do you think you fall into that category?
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I am pretty clued in on news stuff and don’t remember this happening in the past on either side, but it clearly wasn’t at this scale. Maybe I missed it.

I am only hearing about the Barbra boxer stuff now (on a story on msnbc this morning fwiw)....
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

I am pretty clued in on news stuff and don’t remember this happening in the past on either side, but it clearly wasn’t at this scale. Maybe I missed it.

I am only hearing about the Barbra boxer stuff now (on a story on msnbc this morning fwiw)....
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OK you know i think you’re fair and reasonable. it was in the news every day for 2 weeks in 2016. sorry, i’m not a liar bryan.

i said it wasn’t at this scale. but there was absolutely no opposition from the left. and if you consider all the excuses the left came up with as to why the 2016 election wasn’t fair, it was on this scale, hilary blamed her loss on everything conceivable, except losing fair and square. how many of the lefties here told her to just shut up and admit she lost a fair election?
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[The Dad Fisherman]

https://www.change.org/p/electoral-c...cember-19-2017
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

https://www.change.org/p/electoral-c...cember-19-2017
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you made that up.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

https://www.change.org/p/electoral-c...cember-19-2017
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plus senator boxer made a stink about the electoral votes in 2004, but again, that was ok.
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[Pete F.]

Somehow went from “Suck it up, Snowflake, you lost!” to “Oh we lost? Let’s shred the Constitution.”
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Somehow went from “Suck it up, Snowflake, you lost!” to “Oh we lost? Let’s shred the Constitution.”
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please tell us which part of the Constitution is being shredded

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

plus senator boxer made a stink about the electoral votes in 2004, but again, that was ok.
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democrats have a long history of opposing/challenging the electors....it was justified when they do it...like most things...but an abomination when the republicans do it...they are a joke and they are acting like people who are guilty



Sen. Chris Van Hollen, D-Md.,

"I believe that Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) and Representative Stephanie Tubbs Jones (D-OH) have performed a very valuable public service in bringing this debate before the Congress. As Americans, we should all be troubled by reports of voting problems in many parts of the country," Van Hollen, at the time a House member, said in a press release. "I have been particularly concerned about the lack of a verifiable paper record in connection with electronic voting systems.

Sen. Chris Van Hollen, D-Md.,

Sen. Hawley’s actions are grossly irresponsible. He’s attempting to undermine our democratic process, fuel Trump’s lies about voter fraud, and delay the certification of Biden’s win. In the end, this reckless stunt will fail, and Joe Biden will become President on Jan. 20, 2021.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

please tell us which part of the Constitution is being shredded

they live making that claim, then you ask them for specifics, and you get nothing.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

democrats have a long history of opposing/challenging the electors....it was justified when they do it...like most things...but an abomination when the republicans do it...they are a joke and they are acting like people who are guilty



Sen. Chris Van Hollen, D-Md.,

"I believe that Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) and Representative Stephanie Tubbs Jones (D-OH) have performed a very valuable public service in bringing this debate before the Congress. As Americans, we should all be troubled by reports of voting problems in many parts of the country," Van Hollen, at the time a House member, said in a press release. "I have been particularly concerned about the lack of a verifiable paper record in connection with electronic voting systems.

Sen. Chris Van Hollen, D-Md.,

Sen. Hawley’s actions are grossly irresponsible. He’s attempting to undermine our democratic process, fuel Trump’s lies about voter fraud, and delay the certification of Biden’s win. In the end, this reckless stunt will fail, and Joe Biden will become President on Jan. 20, 2021.

nice to see them stick to their principles! let’s wait to hear how you took it out of context.
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