didn't take long

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you completely lied about my sides stance, and i pointed it out. sorry if that rubbed you the wrong way.
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tell him that we fully support his right to choose to constantly supply proof that he is not very bright

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

why does your side then flip flop on letting them choose vaccines and masks?

in those cases, do they need some holier than thou liberal telling them what is right and wrong

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because he thinks he is likely to die if you don't get vaccinated or wear a mask...and then he won't be able to go golfing...

[Pete F.]

The right just wants to be left alone. Aside from controlling what women can & cannot do with their own bodies, controlling what teachers can & cannot teach, controlling the books our kids can & cannot read in school, controlling who can & cannot vote & controlling which votes can & cannot be counted… aside from that.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The right just wants to be left alone. Aside from controlling what women can & cannot do with their own bodies, controlling what teachers can & cannot teach, controlling the books our kids can & cannot read in school, controlling who can & cannot vote & controlling which votes can & cannot be counted… aside from that.
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which is why he gop never wins elections.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The right just wants to be left alone. Aside from controlling what women can & cannot do with their own bodies,

Women, for the most part, are free to do what they want with their own bodies. There are some things society prohibits for the common good and order such as not walking their bodies accross the street against a red light or not ingesting various prohibited substances, and a whole lot of stuff like that. Fetuses BTW, are not their body.

controlling what teachers can & cannot teach,

Education departments have been doing that from the beginning and under control of either Dem or Repub administrations.

controlling the books our kids can & cannot read in school,

Education departments have been doing that from the beginning and under control of either Dem or Repub administrations.

controlling who can & cannot vote

The Constitution and the States have always done that under all the different political administrations.

& controlling which votes can & cannot be counted…

States, no matter the party in power, have always done that.

aside from that.
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Aside from that, what?

[scottw]

so much good info here...could really help bridge the divide...

[wdmso]

Seems Republicans are on a Culture crusade to Save their vision of America against enemies and issues that dont exist except in their small Myopic world


Texas
Amber Briggle is speaking out again, after making headlines for inviting the Texas Attorney General to dinner in 2016. Texas Child Protective Services is investigating her family. 2022 her son is Transgender


Or Florida lawmakers back the creation of an election crimes investigative office


State republicans reasoning "Our job is to make sure our elections are as secure as possible, and you want to know why? Our constituents are demanding it,"

So that's it ? Truth and facts dont matter ? your passing laws on people's feelings not because you have a fraud Issue.. OK

Oh wait this isn't new in FLA

The Florida Senate passed a bill Tuesday that would prohibit “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity” in the state’s primary schools. The measure, dubbed the “Don’t Say Gay”

kindergarten through seventh grade I guess all these liberal teachers are turning Floridian Children Gay and Trans before High School and must be stopped


Mexicans are like what about us! dont worry you are on the radar but not until
30 days before the election

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Seems Republicans are on a Culture crusade to Save their vision of America against enemies and issues that dont exist except in their small Myopic world


Texas
Amber Briggle is speaking out again, after making headlines for inviting the Texas Attorney General to dinner in 2016. Texas Child Protective Services is investigating her family. 2022 her son is Transgender


Or Florida lawmakers back the creation of an election crimes investigative office


State republicans reasoning "Our job is to make sure our elections are as secure as possible, and you want to know why? Our constituents are demanding it,"

So that's it ? Truth and facts dont matter ? your passing laws on people's feelings not because you have a fraud Issue.. OK

Oh wait this isn't new in FLA

The Florida Senate passed a bill Tuesday that would prohibit “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity” in the state’s primary schools. The measure, dubbed the “Don’t Say Gay”

kindergarten through seventh grade I guess all these liberal teachers are turning Floridian Children Gay and Trans before High School and must be stopped


Mexicans are like what about us! dont worry you are on the radar but not until
30 days before the election

if no teachers are talking about sexuality, then zero
reason to complain about a bull
preventing it.

You’re right, FL and TX stink, which is why everyone is leaving there, no one is moving there.

i jave zero problem
with homosexuality, i was in favor of gay marriage long before it was popular, i was in favor of it when hilary and obama were adamantly opposed and yet everyone lives them.

but i wouldn’t want it discussed in public school. It’s my job to teach my kids about that stuff, not the teachers. teachers job is to teach math, science, literature.
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[Pete F.]

Wonder which states have the highest rates of divorce and teen pregnancy?
Better just let them learn about the birds and the bees at recess, huh

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Wonder which states have the highest rates of divorce and teen pregnancy?
Better just let them learn about the birds and the bees at recess, huh

Plenty of teen pregnancies in liberal-run cities, last time i checked.

We weren't talking how to avoid getting pregnant. For sure we weren't talking about stable marriages. We were talking about pornography, homosexuality, etc.

It doesn't belong in public school IMO.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Plenty of teen pregnancies in liberal-run cities, last time i checked.

We weren't talking how to avoid getting pregnant. For sure we weren't talking about stable marriages. We were talking about pornography, homosexuality, etc.

It doesn't belong in public school IMO.

In whose opinion does it?

I think they should confine those things to Catholic schools as it historically has.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

In whose opinion does it?

I think they should confine those things to Catholic schools as it historically has.
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in many liberals
opinion, it belongs in public school.

there was a book with illustrations of young boys blowing each other. conservatives wanted it out of school libraries. you guys all said the conservatives were a bunch of book burning, pro-censorship, homophobes
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

in many liberals
opinion, it belongs in public school.

there was a book with illustrations of young boys blowing each other. conservatives wanted it out of school libraries. you guys all said the conservatives were a bunch of book burning, pro-censorship, homophobes
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Many liberals.........

What's actually happening is that, after many many many decades of conservatives undercutting education, trying to ban books, and censoring what students can learn, the left had a little more cultural power and a sense of urgency thanks to Trump, and they capitalized on it.

There is a lot to criticize with how some progressive people have capitalized on this moment - what they're prioritizing, the kind of reductive ideas they're teaching. But they are not the new catalyst for right-wing censorship, lying, and attempts to outlaw teaching history.

Or I guess I should say: They are one catalyst for the current right-wing freak-out and attendant attempts at censorship and outlawing teaching accurate US history. But the right has long, long been censoring, lying and removing truth from the classroom. It's not new.

The right didn't start these egregious behaviors yesterday solely in response to the left. They've been doing this for a LONG time. Progressives reacted and had some wins. Now the right is doubling down on these long-standing impulses toward censorship and anti-intellectualism.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

right-wing censorship, lying, and attempts to outlaw teaching history.

Outlawing the teaching of history? Is this some widespread attempt? Really? How so?

Or I guess I should say: They are one catalyst for the current right-wing freak-out and attendant attempts at censorship and outlawing teaching accurate US history.

Massive successful attempts of censorship are coming from the left now, big time. The right has to create its own internet platforms now if it wants to reach the masses.

And "accurate US history" is an interesting locution. Would you consider books that comment on US history by Thomas Sowell to be "accurate"? They give a different picture than that painted by Critical Race Theorists.

Now the right is doubling down on these long-standing impulses toward censorship and anti-intellectualism.

Is an "impulse toward censorship" some constant and indiscriminate urge by all on "the right"? Or do some on "the right" at various times succumb to this "impulse"?

And is "the right" teeming with those (anti-intellectuals) who have long-standingly deprecated education, philosophy, art, literature, and science? I don't know anybody on "the right" who have a "long-standing impulse" to do so.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Many liberals.........

What's actually happening is that, after many many many decades of conservatives undercutting education, trying to ban books, and censoring what students can learn, the left had a little more cultural power and a sense of urgency thanks to Trump, and they capitalized on it.

There is a lot to criticize with how some progressive people have capitalized on this moment - what they're prioritizing, the kind of reductive ideas they're teaching. But they are not the new catalyst for right-wing censorship, lying, and attempts to outlaw teaching history.

Or I guess I should say: They are one catalyst for the current right-wing freak-out and attendant attempts at censorship and outlawing teaching accurate US history. But the right has long, long been censoring, lying and removing truth from the classroom. It's not new.

The right didn't start these egregious behaviors yesterday solely in response to the left. They've been doing this for a LONG time. Progressives reacted and had some wins. Now the right is doubling down on these long-standing impulses toward censorship and anti-intellectualism.

if i say schools don’t need books showing adolescent boys boeing each other, that makes me anti intellectual?

i’m saying kids need more time developing their intellect ( math, science, literature), and less time getting indoctrinated with political ideology. Pretty sure that doesn’t make me an anti intellectual. i want schools to focus on developing the intellect. leave the divisive social issues to parents.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

if i say schools don’t need books showing adolescent boys boeing each other, that makes me anti intellectual?

i’m saying kids need more time developing their intellect ( math, science, literature), and less time getting indoctrinated with political ideology. Pretty sure that doesn’t make me an anti intellectual. i want schools to focus on developing the intellect. leave the divisive social issues to parents.
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the difference between you and pete is.... you would never want to force pete's kids to learn those things, if pete wants to teach his kids those things at home that's fine...but pete is happy to have your kids forced to learn those things at school

that makes pete a good person in his mind, and you a bad person and anti-intellectual...see how it works?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by scottw

the difference between you and pete is.... you would never want to force pete's kids to learn those things, if pete wants to teach his kids those things at home that's fine...but pete is happy to have your kids forced to learn those things at school

that makes pete a good person in his mind, and you a bad person and anti-intellectual...see how it works?

Silly troll, the straw man of one book becomes justification.

The party of book burning, banning local gov'ts from decisions, enabling lawsuits against teachers over hurt feelings, bounties on women seeking medical help, laws restricting voting access for all, & trying to legislate LBGTQ to not exist... has concerns about gov't overreach...
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Silly troll, the straw man of one book becomes justification.

The party of book burning, banning local gov'ts from decisions, enabling lawsuits against teachers over hurt feelings, bounties on women seeking medical help, laws restricting voting access for all, & trying to legislate LBGTQ to not exist... has concerns about gov't overreach...
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^^^someone needs his medication

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Silly troll, the straw man of one book becomes justification.

The party of book burning, banning local gov'ts from decisions, enabling lawsuits against teachers over hurt feelings, bounties on women seeking medical help, laws restricting voting access for all, & trying to legislate LBGTQ to not exist... has concerns about gov't overreach...
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schools having books with illustrations of boys blowing each other isn’t government overreach. it’s government stupidity.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

schools having books with illustrations of boys blowing each other isn’t government overreach. it’s government stupidity.
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you are an incompetent parent who won't teach them these skills at home...so it's up to the schools

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

schools having books with illustrations of boys blowing each other isn’t government overreach. it’s government stupidity.
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Yes the plan is to make sure that book is in every school
You believe that?
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[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Wonder which states have the highest rates of divorce and teen pregnancy?
Better just let them learn about the birds and the bees at recess, huh

How about you post some stats that lead in number of marriages each year along with the highest divorce rates ?
No one gets married any more compared to generations past so naturally divorce rates will be higher were they actually Get Married.

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Yes the plan is to make sure that book is in every school
You believe that?
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Something tells me you wrote the book & have lots of experience in the subject

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

Something tells me you wrote the book & have lots of experience in the subject

Poor boy
If you were to imagine the littlest whiny weenie, of all the whiniest little weenies ever and bark like a little purse dog, it would be you. I’m glad you exists as the reciprocal of what it means to be a man.
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[Pete F.]

Oh look - An actual assault on free speech.

Florida Lt. Governor: They will try to bully us like Disney doing. How dare they. They have no right to criticize legislation by duly elected legislators… Governor DeSantis and I won’t stand for it
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Yes the plan is to make sure that book is in every school
You believe that?
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i want to know how you concluded that from what i said.

i’m not worried it’s going to be in every school. but it doesn’t belong in any school:

you criticized parents who didn’t want that crap in their school. Meaning, you think it’s ok for kids to stare at that when they could be learning algebra or chemistry.

i’m comfortable with my side in this one. you’re going off the deep
end, as usual responding to things that i never even came close to saying.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i want to know how you concluded that from what i said.

i’m not worried it’s going to be in every school. but it doesn’t belong in any school:

you criticized parents who didn’t want that crap in their school. Meaning, you think it’s ok for kids to stare at that when they could be learning algebra or chemistry.

i’m comfortable with my side in this one. you’re going off the deep
end, as usual responding to things that i never even came close to saying.
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Jim, every public school in the USA has LOCAL control.
Why do you think that State or Federal government needs to control this?
Or are you, once again, playing your victim card.

For you, the straw man of one book becomes justification.

The party of book burning, banning local gov'ts from decisions, enabling lawsuits against teachers over hurt feelings, bounties on women seeking medical help, laws restricting voting access for all, & trying to legislate LBGTQ to not exist... has concerns about gov't overreach...
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Jim, every public school in the USA has LOCAL control.
Why do you think that State or Federal government needs to control this?
Or are you, once again, playing your victim card.

For you, the straw man of one book becomes justification.

The party of book burning, banning local gov'ts from decisions, enabling lawsuits against teachers over hurt feelings, bounties on women seeking medical help, laws restricting voting access for all, & trying to legislate LBGTQ to not exist... has concerns about gov't overreach...
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The answer from the politicians passing these laws

It’s what our gerrymander constituents want .

They called it leadership when it’s just playing to the Mob

These same people will be ok with camps …. to house these deviants
! If that’s what their constituents want !

All the pieces are in place , They just need Trump back in office.

Because they know he will willingly destroy whatever they want and He’s the key
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[wdmso]

Republican strategy: Representatives in multiple states are pushing bills that would attempt to limit what residents can and can't do even beyond state lines.

I get it some are against Abortion and anything transgender related. Not sure how they can support something like this .
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Jim, every public school in the USA has LOCAL control.
Why do you think that State or Federal government needs to control this?
Or are you, once again, playing your victim card.

For you, the straw man of one book becomes justification.

The party of book burning, banning local gov'ts from decisions, enabling lawsuits against teachers over hurt feelings, bounties on women seeking medical help, laws restricting voting access for all, & trying to legislate LBGTQ to not exist... has concerns about gov't overreach...
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"every public school in the USA has LOCAL control."

(1) wrong. Every public school in the USA has state and federal guidelines that they must abide by. I'm fine with less federal/state control, and more local control. I taught in CT, and there were ALL KINDS of state and federal rules that dictated some of what we had to do. There's nothing remotely new about state or federal intrusion.

(2) You're saying you're a proponent of local control, yet when local parents show up at local school board meetings to express local concerns, you dismiss them as crackpots. So you're kind of all over the place.

"once again, playing your victim card"

Again, not sure how you could conclude that. I'm saying you're demonstrably, laughably wrong if you think that Republicans are inventing the idea of state control.

With masks, Desantis wanted control to be at the most local level - the individual. Desantis didn't forbid anyone wearing masks in school. He forbid towns from forcing people to wear them. That's a big, big difference.

As to teaching sexuality to elementary school kids, I don't like it, but if a town wants to do it, I think they should be allowed to do it. If parents don't like it, they can elect a new school board. I think states and the feds should but out. But if you think Democrats want to leave education to local boards, you're wrong.

Pete, you just can't handle it when anyone isn't on 100% board with pure, unchecked liberalism, on any single issue. Which is why you may well need to check into rehab after the midterms.