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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

 
 
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Old 10-03-2018, 01:29 PM   #1
Pete F.
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman View Post
The Russians have been meddling in our elections for decades, and its never been "OK"

This isn't new
They are getting better at it and better voting machines will not do a thing.
An airtight case, she acknowledges, may never be possible. In the introduction to her new book, she writes that any case for influence will likely be similar to that in a civil legal trial, “in which the verdict is rendered not with the certainty that e=mc2 but rather based on the preponderance of evidence.” But, she points out, “we do make most of life’s decisions based on less-than-rock-solid, incontrovertible evidence.” In Philadelphia, she noted to me that “we convict people on probabilities rather than absolute certainty, and we’ve executed people based on inferences from available evidence.” She argued that “the standard of proof being demanded” by people claiming it’s impossible to know whether Russia delivered the White House to Trump is “substantially higher than the standard of proof we ordinarily use in our lives.”

Her case is based on a growing body of knowledge about the electronic warfare waged by Russian trolls and hackers—whom she terms “discourse saboteurs”—and on five decades’ worth of academic studies about what kinds of persuasion can influence voters, and under what circumstances. Democracies around the world, she told me, have begun to realize that subverting an election doesn’t require tampering with voting machines. Extensive studies of past campaigns, Jamieson said, have demonstrated that “you can affect people, who then change their decision, and that alters the outcome.” She continued, “I’m not arguing that Russians pulled the voting levers. I’m arguing that they persuaded enough people to either vote a certain way or not vote at all.”

The effect of such manipulations could be momentous in an election as close as the 2016 race, in which Clinton got nearly 2.9 million more votes than Trump, and Trump won the Electoral College only because some eighty thousand votes went his way in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. In two hundred and twenty-four pages of extremely dry prose, with four appendixes of charts and graphs and fifty-four pages of footnotes, Jamieson makes a strong case that, in 2016, “Russian masterminds” pulled off a technological and political coup. Moreover, she concludes, the American media “inadvertently helped them achieve their goals.”

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?

Lets Go Darwin
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Old 10-03-2018, 02:18 PM   #2
detbuch
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
They are getting better at it

That's called progress. Progressives should admire that. Meddling is a living breathing thing. History progresses toward the good.

She argued that “the standard of proof being demanded” by people claiming it’s impossible to know whether Russia delivered the White House to Trump is “substantially higher than the standard of proof we ordinarily use” to smear Kavanaugh.


Extensive studies of past campaigns, of American politicians Jamieson said, have demonstrated that “you can affect people, who then change their decision, and that alters the outcome.”

Like Democrats and Republicans do every election and in between.

She continued, “I’m not arguing that Russians pulled the voting levers. I’m arguing that Republicans and Democrats persuaded enough people to either vote a certain way or not vote at all.”

The effect of such manipulations could be momentous in an election

Our pols have figured that out long ago. They use the tactic to subvert our elections all the time.

Moreover, she concludes, the American media “inadvertently helped them achieve their goals.”
No . . . don't tell me . . . I can't believe that fake news colluded with the Russians to actually help Trump. Things are so murky and meddled with in our politics that the poor voter just can't know who or what to believe. Probably we should consult the world about it.
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Old 10-03-2018, 02:56 PM   #3
Pete F.
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Join Date: Jun 2003
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Originally Posted by detbuch View Post
No . . . don't tell me . . . I can't believe that fake news colluded with the Russians to actually help Trump. Things are so murky and meddled with in our politics that the poor voter just can't know who or what to believe. Probably we should consult the world about it.
Spoken like a russian troll.

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?

Lets Go Darwin
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Old 10-03-2018, 03:11 PM   #4
detbuch
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Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
Spoken like a russian troll.
Wow. Like a Russian troll. I'm getting good.

BTW, this from the article in your What does the world think thread: "The country giving the U.S. its lowest rating in the survey, and the place where the biggest drop in U.S. favorability has taken place over the past year, is Russia." Must be a Putin tactic. You know, to make the Russian collusion seem a bit less credible. And he and Trump can keep their Bromance under the radar.

Last edited by detbuch; 10-03-2018 at 05:06 PM..
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