Pocahontas? So What?

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by DZ

Very well said Jim.

Well said. Not accurate. Big business and profits over public health, the environment (public health issue). Individual rights claim as a way to discriminate against others. Sanctity of life- if you are referring to abortion- maybe; sanctity of life when you are talking about the right to clean water and air, health care, food quality, no.

The abortion/religion connection is somewhat bogus as well. Most people don't like abortion. The difference is whether a women makes that decision for herself or if Jim decides. Is it sad so many babies are aborted? Sure. What about the 50% of fertilized eggs that don't successfully implant? Sad. What about for those that do? Another 20% end fail in the first trimester.

In US, the numbers come out to about 12 million fertilized eggs per year. 6 million pregnancies 4 million live births. more than a million each miscarriages and abortions of choice. 9 out of 12 million fertilized eggs are not born and only about 1 million of those is due to the choice of the woman.

Having 1 kid, no kid, or 30 kids is a personal choice. I won't tell you or anyone else how many you should have. If republicans and so concerned about how many fertilized eggs become live births, they might also focus on improving reproductive health rather than defunding planned parenthood.

Not a single real piece of evidence that republicans value life more than democrats. Totally bogus.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Well said. Not accurate. Big business and profits over public health, the environment (public health issue). Individual rights claim as a way to discriminate against others. Sanctity of life- if you are referring to abortion- maybe; sanctity of life when you are talking about the right to clean water and air, health care, food quality, no.

The abortion/religion connection is somewhat bogus as well. Most people don't like abortion. The difference is whether a women makes that decision for herself or if Jim decides. Is it sad so many babies are aborted? Sure. What about the 50% of fertilized eggs that don't successfully implant? Sad. What about for those that do? Another 20% end fail in the first trimester.

In US, the numbers come out to about 12 million fertilized eggs per year. 6 million pregnancies 4 million live births. more than a million each miscarriages and abortions of choice. 9 out of 12 million fertilized eggs are not born and only about 1 million of those is due to the choice of the woman.

Having 1 kid, no kid, or 30 kids is a personal choice. I won't tell you or anyone else how many you should have. If republicans and so concerned about how many fertilized eggs become live births, they might also focus on improving reproductive health rather than defunding planned parenthood.

Not a single real piece of evidence that republicans value life more than democrats. Totally bogus.

I don't know if Jesus was a true Christian. But there is no evidence that he believed that government, especially secular government, should be responsible for either the physical or spiritual life of individuals. He seems to have preached that individual responsibility nonsense that the GOP spouts.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by detbuch

He seems to have preached that individual responsibility nonsense that the GOP spouts.

Now that is comical. Good one

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Well said. Not accurate. Big business and profits over public health, the environment (public health issue). Individual rights claim as a way to discriminate against others. Sanctity of life- if you are referring to abortion- maybe; sanctity of life when you are talking about the right to clean water and air, health care, food quality, no.

The abortion/religion connection is somewhat bogus as well. Most people don't like abortion. The difference is whether a women makes that decision for herself or if Jim decides. Is it sad so many babies are aborted? Sure. What about the 50% of fertilized eggs that don't successfully implant? Sad. What about for those that do? Another 20% end fail in the first trimester.

In US, the numbers come out to about 12 million fertilized eggs per year. 6 million pregnancies 4 million live births. more than a million each miscarriages and abortions of choice. 9 out of 12 million fertilized eggs are not born and only about 1 million of those is due to the choice of the woman.

Having 1 kid, no kid, or 30 kids is a personal choice. I won't tell you or anyone else how many you should have. If republicans and so concerned about how many fertilized eggs become live births, they might also focus on improving reproductive health rather than defunding planned parenthood.

Not a single real piece of evidence that republicans value life more than democrats. Totally bogus.

"Big business "

What does this mean, exactly? There is a liberal myth that republicans are happy to let businesses maximize profits even if it means slaughtering their employees and selling their organs on the black market. It's not true. Republicans are less hostile to business than democrats, that's typically true. I've never heard a republican call for a repeal of labor laws to let business run amuck. So I have no idea what your point is when you say "big business". I have news for you. Big business isn't bad. I have worked for big business my whole life, they employ thousands of Americans, generate wealth for shareholders, and give a ton of money to local charities.

"Individual rights claim as a way to discriminate against others"

Certain rights are guaranteed in the constitution, even if liberals are offended by them. Hurt feelings do not trump the Constitution. Do you agree?

"Sanctity of life- if you are referring to abortion- maybe; sanctity of life when you are talking about the right to clean water and air, health care, food quality, no"

You are making these crazy assumptions, for example, that Republicans don't like clean water and air. I spend a lot more time outdoors than most people. I think we have a responsibility to safeguard these beautiful ecosystems that give us so much. We need honest research about such things, and common sense reaction to them. I don't know any part of the GOP platform that endorses pollution. But we aren't a bunch of fanatical tree huggers, either. The right answer is probably somewhere in the middle.

"The abortion/religion connection is somewhat bogus as well"

The hell it is. Most conservatives are anti-abortion, most liberals are pro-abortion.

"Is it sad so many babies are aborted? Sure. What about the 50% of fertilized eggs that don't successfully implant? Sad. What about for those that do? Another 20% end fail in the first trimester. "

Nonsensical comparison. The latter events, while sometimes tragic, are natural. Abortion isn't. Apples and oranges. I happen to believe all life is precious, which is why I oppose both abortion and the death penalty, for the same exact reason.

"only about 1 million of those is due to the choice of the woman. "

What the heck, what's a million babies slaughtered in the womb each year, why cry over spilled milk. No reason to get so worked up.

Democrats are in favor of snuffing out a million lives a year. And you are trying to claim that this platform, more closely embraces Christianity? That's taking some liberties, boy.

"If republicans and so concerned about how many fertilized eggs become live births, they might also focus on improving reproductive health rather than defunding planned parenthood."

Anoother demonstrable false, bullsh*t lie. The GOP plans to de-fund Planned Parenthood, called for every cent that was formerly going to PP, to go to other women's health centers that don't do abortions.

See, this is what your side does. If the GOP wants to fund actual health care but not elective abortions, you know you cannot win that argument. So you lie, and claim that we oppose women's health. There is zero truth to that. But your side frames it this way, so that your position doesn't seem as evil as it actually is.

Try to follow along. We favor the funding of women's health. That does NOT include elective abortions. Am I going too fast for you?

All you did, was recite MSNBC bumper stickers. Little truth or logic. But that's liberalism.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Well said. Not accurate. Big business and profits over public health, the environment (public health issue). Individual rights claim as a way to discriminate against others. Sanctity of life- if you are referring to abortion- maybe; sanctity of life when you are talking about the right to clean water and air, health care, food quality, no.

The abortion/religion connection is somewhat bogus as well. Most people don't like abortion. The difference is whether a women makes that decision for herself or if Jim decides. Is it sad so many babies are aborted? Sure. What about the 50% of fertilized eggs that don't successfully implant? Sad. What about for those that do? Another 20% end fail in the first trimester.

In US, the numbers come out to about 12 million fertilized eggs per year. 6 million pregnancies 4 million live births. more than a million each miscarriages and abortions of choice. 9 out of 12 million fertilized eggs are not born and only about 1 million of those is due to the choice of the woman.

Having 1 kid, no kid, or 30 kids is a personal choice. I won't tell you or anyone else how many you should have. If republicans and so concerned about how many fertilized eggs become live births, they might also focus on improving reproductive health rather than defunding planned parenthood.

Not a single real piece of evidence that republicans value life more than democrats. Totally bogus.

You said the following two things.

(1) only about 1 million of those (unborn deaths) is due to the choice of the woman.

And then,

(2) Not a single real piece of evidence that republicans value life more than democrats

Your side advocates for the right to slaughter a million unborn babies every single year. My side opposes that. And you don't concede, that means my side values life more than your side.

I also posted a study which says that conservatives are also more charitable (not by much at all) than liberals.

That's quite a bit of evidence that my side has more empathy for the voiceless and the vulnerable. Which is why I like my side.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You said the following two things.

(1) only about 1 million of those (unborn deaths) is due to the choice of the woman.

And then,

(2) Not a single real piece of evidence that republicans value life more than democrats

Your side advocates for the right to slaughter a million unborn babies every single year. My side opposes that. And you don't concede, that means my side values life more than your side.

I also posted a study which says that conservatives are also more charitable (not by much at all) than liberals.

That's quite a bit of evidence that my side has more empathy for the voiceless and the vulnerable. Which is why I like my side.

Again a simpleton response. There are another other 9 million babies that aren't born. A variety of health care issues that would help those unborn are ignored or negatively impacted directly or indirectly by republican supported policies. I think women are smart enough to make their own decision. Looking at the posts and responses of people in this forum only reinforces that I should trust women and their doctors, not the crowd who voted in Captain Traffic Cone.

The tendency of conservatives to be more charitable is directly related to tithing. Muslims would come out as one of the most charitable sub-groups in a such type of analysis.

Your side is delusional if it thinks there is evidence that it has more empathy for the voiceless and vulnerable.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Again a simpleton response. There are another other 9 million babies that aren't born. A variety of health care issues that would help those unborn are ignored or negatively impacted directly or indirectly by republican supported policies. I think women are smart enough to make their own decision. Looking at the posts and responses of people in this forum only reinforces that I should trust women and their doctors, not the crowd who voted in Captain Traffic Cone.

The tendency of conservatives to be more charitable is directly related to tithing. Muslims would come out as one of the most charitable sub-groups in a such type of analysis.

Your side is delusional if it thinks there is evidence that it has more empathy for the voiceless and vulnerable.

"Again a simpleton response"

I am a very simple guy.

"There are another other 9 million babies that aren't born"

You are talking about natural miscarriages and abortion, as if they are the same thing. Natural miscarriages do not happen because of a legislative mandate. Abortions do. We can't legislate who has miscarriages. Jeez.

"A variety of health care issues that would help those unborn are ignored or negatively impacted directly or indirectly by republican supported policies."

I notice that despite your opinion that there are a variety of such issues, you didn't specify any. I'm not sure much helps the unborn more, than being protected from slaughter. For example, availability of prenatal vitamins, doesn't do an aborted fetus a lot of good that I can see.

"I think women are smart enough to make their own decision. "

See, there is the dishonest framing of the issue again. My opposition to abortion, doesn't mean I think women are stupid. My wife is ten times smarter than me in every imaginable way. And I don't think she has the moral right to elect an abortion. But I know she's smarter than me.

Liberals FRAME this as about how conservatives view women - again, they like to gframe things in a dishonest way. It's not. If it was, why are so many women opposed to abortion? The only issue, is the rights (or lack thereof) of the fetus.

Pro-life folks are pro-life, because they have empathy for the fetus. But I have never, not once, ever - heard a liberal say "I respect that pro-life people have empathy for the fetus, but I think it's misplaced empathy". Liberals never say that, because as usual, the truth makes there side look evil. So they say we are opposed to women's health. It's obviously dishonest, but it sounds better to liberals, than admitting the ugly truth about what the two sides actually believe.

Liberals do this (demonize the opposition) all the time. If you think white cops are usually heroes, you hate blacks. If you are anti-abortion, you hate women. If you want secure borders, you hate Hispanics. If you think the bill of rights applies to bakers who are opposed to gay weddings, you hate gays. If you are worried about jihadists, you hate Muslims. If you think Social Security needs to be fixed, you hate old people. If you think there are limits to how much we can spend, you hate poor people. It never ends. Never.

"The tendency of conservatives to be more charitable is directly related to tithing. "

I thought you said Christians didn't care about the poor? So why do they tithe? You can't have it both ways! Which is it?

"Your side is delusional if it thinks there is evidence that it has more empathy for the voiceless and vulnerable"

Pretend you are an unborn baby with some health issues. God asks you whether you'd prefer to be placed in the womb of the head of the RNC or the head of the DNC. You going to claim that you wouldn't have a very strong preference?

I provided factual evidence that Republicans have more empathy (the issue of abortion, and charitable giving) You have provided zero evidence that I am wrong. You have slogans like "big business", and "profits before people". Bumper sticker slogans that dishonestly demonize conservatives. That's 90% of what liberalism is - dishonestly distorting what it is, that conservatives actually believe.