Climate Change

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

I think fisherman, who can see tangible evidence of mans impact on the oceans (overfishing, acidification) should have a stronger appreciation for mans impact on the climate system as a whole.

I think fishermen probably do have an above-average appreciation.

I really, really like nature. Before we had kids, my wife and I spent a lot of our money, too much, going to Alaska repetedly. I want that pristine, healthy place for future generations to enjoy.

But over-reacting, can have lethal consequences. Here's what I mean by that...

Not all that long ago, it was determined that spraying DDT to kill mosquitoes, was causing bird eggs to be so thin-shelled, that the eggs were crushed when the mother sat on the eggs. So the environmentalists got a ban on DDT.

Great for the birds. Not so great for the untold thousands of African children who needlessly died of malaria, because the mosquito population exploded.

So when the deep-thinker George Clooney says something to the effect of "why not implement some of the green energy ideas, the worst that will happen, is we'll clean up the planet a bit", he has no idea what he's talking about and should have his head examined to see what's in there, where his brain is supposed to be. But the left gives him a pretty large platform, from which he can spew the lunacy that there's no downside if we change course suddenly. For damn sure, no one on the left challenges his notion that there is no downside.

People who live in the developed world, enjoy a LOT of benefits - more comforts, better health, longer life expectancies. Much of the third world wants those things just as badly as we want them. I don't know on what basis we get to tell them, that they can't have them, just because we got there first and now we're going to change the rules and make it much harder to develop they way we did.

I hear every word you are saying, and I agree with a lot of it, you don't come across as a thoughtless fanatic at all. We just need to look before we leap.

And as usual, we need to stop demonizing everyone who has a slightly different opinion. I'm not an idiot, I'm not a science denier, I'm not anything that they claim I am...you don't advance a major ideological agenda that way.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I think fishermen probably do have an above-average appreciation.

I really, really like nature. Before we had kids, my wife and I spent a lot of our money, too much, going to Alaska repetedly. I want that pristine, healthy place for future generations to enjoy.

But over-reacting, can have lethal consequences. Here's what I mean by that...

Not all that long ago, it was determined that spraying DDT to kill mosquitoes, was causing bird eggs to be so thin-shelled, that the eggs were crushed when the mother sat on the eggs. So the environmentalists got a ban on DDT.

Great for the birds. Not so great for the untold thousands of African children who needlessly died of malaria, because the mosquito population exploded.

So when the deep-thinker George Clooney says something to the effect of "why not implement some of the green energy ideas, the worst that will happen, is we'll clean up the planet a bit", he has no idea what he's talking about and should have his head examined to see what's in there, where his brain is supposed to be. But the left gives him a pretty large platform, from which he can spew the lunacy that there's no downside if we change course suddenly. For damn sure, no one on the left challenges his notion that there is no downside.

People who live in the developed world, enjoy a LOT of benefits - more comforts, better health, longer life expectancies. Much of the third world wants those things just as badly as we want them. I don't know on what basis we get to tell them, that they can't have them.

I hear every word you are saying, and I agree with a lot of it, you don't come across as a thoughtless fanatic at all. We just need to look before we leap.

And as usual, we need to stop demonizing everyone who has a slightly different opinion. I'm not an idiot, I'm not a science denier, I'm not anything that they claim I am...you don't advance a major ideological agenda that way.

All of that is why things like the Paris Accord (and Koyoto before that) allow developing countries more leeway. You have a more thoughtful approach to that than many on the right.

This will ultimately become an economic issue; unwise coastal development + increasing sea level + storms (and lets assume the same frequency and intensity of storms) will continue to cost us more and more in the coming years. Swiss Re and Munich Re adopted climate change impacts and as their part of their risk assessment

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

All of that is why things like the Paris Accord (and Koyoto before that) allow developing countries more leeway. You have a more thoughtful approach to that than many on the right.

This will ultimately become an economic issue; unwise coastal development + increasing sea level + storms (and lets assume the same frequency and intensity of storms) will continue to cost us more and more in the coming years. Swiss Re and Munich Re adopted climate change impacts and as their part of their risk assessment

"You have a more thoughtful approach to that than many on the right."

Same to you, thanks.

"This will ultimately become an economic issue"

Agreed.

Every insurance company closely monitors frequency and severity of hurricanes, and tries to best guess what future trends will be. Those that don't do that, filed for Chapter 11 the day after Hurricane Andrew.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

All of that is why things like the Paris Accord (and Koyoto before that) allow developing countries more leeway. You have a more thoughtful approach to that than many on the right.

I want everyone on the planet to be healthy, comfortable, and to thrive. Despite what you hear said about me on TV every night, that's exactly what I want, and what I pray for.

I think everyone on the right whom I admire, feels exactly the same way (obviously, there are plenty of thoughtless jerks on both sides, I am referring to the people I listen to, like George W Bush, Trey Gowdy, Tom Cotton, Charles Krauthammer, etc). If you think my thoughtfulness is the exception, I think you are being duped by media types who want you to believe that everyone to the right of Bernie Sanders, watches re-runs of 'Hee Haw' all day, and we only get up out of our chairs to scratch ourselves or beat our wives.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I want everyone on the planet to be healthy, comfortable, and to thrive. Despite what you hear said about me on TV every night, that's exactly what I want, and what I pray for.

I think everyone on the right whom I admire, feels exactly the same way (obviously, there are plenty of thoughtless jerks on both sides, I am referring to the people I listen to, like George W Bush, Trey Gowdy, Tom Cotton, Charles Krauthammer, etc). If you think my thoughtfulness is the exception, I think you are being duped by media types who want you to believe that everyone to the right of Bernie Sanders, watches re-runs of 'Hee Haw' all day, and we only get up out of our chairs to scratch ourselves or beat our wives.

I am sure they are good people.

So you take a Krauthammer approach? As I recall, he believes that CO2 is a threat but he thinks scientists can't predict what will happen in the future, so...punt on it for now I guess? Then he fell into the same trap of blaming models and the mythical 'pause'...

You are a thoughtful guy Jim, if CO2 IS a greenhouse gas, which has an impact on the climate system, shouldn't the US be leading on ways to reduce emissions to reduce that risk (and reduce our dependence on imported energy?). I say that while driving a car and using oil for hot water. I'm not advocating for all of us to bike to work, although efficiency is a big part of the story moving forward.

There is semi-good news, we have reduced the rate of rise a bit, largely by industry switching to natural gas from coal because it is cleaner and cheaper. The trend is still up for CO2, but at a slower rate. There are at least some workable solutions to start to work on this. Those nice thoughtful folks in the GOP are out-numbered by the Imhoffs of the world I'm afraid.

enough fun. back to work...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

I am sure they are good people.

So you take a Krauthammer approach? As I recall, he believes that CO2 is a threat but he thinks scientists can't predict what will happen in the future, so...punt on it for now I guess? Then he fell into the same trap of blaming models and the mythical 'pause'...

You are a thoughtful guy Jim, if CO2 IS a greenhouse gas, which has an impact on the climate system, shouldn't the US be leading on ways to reduce emissions to reduce that risk (and reduce our dependence on imported energy?). I say that while driving a car and using oil for hot water. I'm not advocating for all of us to bike to work, although efficiency is a big part of the story moving forward.

There is semi-good news, we have reduced the rate of rise a bit, largely by industry switching to natural gas from coal because it is cleaner and cheaper. The trend is still up for CO2, but at a slower rate. There are at least some workable solutions to start to work on this. Those nice thoughtful folks in the GOP are out-numbered by the Imhoffs of the world I'm afraid.

enough fun. back to work...

"So you take a Krauthammer approach?"

In general, I hope so. On this issue, I don't know where he stands.

"shouldn't the US be leading on ways to reduce emissions to reduce that risk (and reduce our dependence on imported energy?). I say that while driving a car and using oil for hot water. I'm not advocating for all of us to bike to work, although efficiency is a big part of the story moving forward."

Agreed 100%.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Those nice thoughtful folks in the GOP are out-numbered by the Imhoffs of the world I'm afraid.

k...

Not even close.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

if CO2 IS a greenhouse gas, which has an impact on the climate system, shouldn't the US be leading on ways to reduce emissions to reduce that risk (and reduce our dependence on imported energy?). I say that while driving a car and using oil for hot water. I'm not advocating for all of us to bike to work, although efficiency is a big part of the story moving forward.

...

I suspect we agree more on environmental issues than we disagree...I think everyone should have to keep all of their garbage on their premises for a month(or more) and figure out what to do with it...I have solar panels in the early 90's, which is funny because it was just established we didn't have those technologies a decade ago....my goal is to live in a tiny house and I'm considering a Co-Exist bumper sticker for my Subaru wagon.......the economic impact of falling overboard is much greater now than it was 20 years ago and this will always be true....20 years ago you probably would't have an Iphone in your pocket and expensive breathable jacket and bibs.....storms are going to happen and people will still build in their path and collect expensive trinkets to get wrecked

[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Those nice thoughtful folks in the GOP are out-numbered by the Imhoffs of the world I'm afraid.

..

I Googled Imhoff and got a basketball player(oh...probably a flat-earther) and a German engineer born in 1876....you'd think whoever you are talking about would rate higher in the rankings

[scottw]

though I'm not entirely sure about the Co-Exist sticker because the last one I saw was on a big SUV tailgating me then speeding east on 195 in E. Prov. driven by a woman going at least 85....I guess she was good with Co-Existing as long as everyone got the bleep out of her way....not sure I want to be associated with those people...I would like some bee hives and maybe a greenhouse for organic produce but now I'm concerned that it may not be safe inside a greenhouse with all of those harmful greenhouse gasses floating around

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by scottw

now I'm concerned that it may not be safe inside a greenhouse with all of those harmful greenhouse gasses floating around

So not exactly the same thing as GHG do not work that way, but what the hell