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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

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Old 01-12-2018, 05:14 PM   #31
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It was a fact, not deke.
People mix prejudice and racism all the time. To claim something isn't racism because you didn't explicitly mention the race is a distraction from the root issue...it's a deke.
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:36 PM   #32
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People mix prejudice and racism all the time. To claim something isn't racism because you didn't explicitly mention the race is a distraction from the root issue...it's a deke.
Too accuse someone of racism without factual evidence of it is the root method of the type of vague and prejudicial verbiage that you so often practice.
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:37 PM   #33
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"You didn't qualify the word "empathy". So now you restrict it to not everyone we happen to feel sorry for"

I have empathy for everyone born into the 3rd world. That doesn't mean I think we should bring them all here. The ones we do bring, we do so, because of empathy and hope.

Empathy is a fine thing. Most of us empathize. But it cannot be a rational purpose for an immigration policy.

"You are not clear about what you suggest"

I apologize. I'll try to clarify. I suggest that if Trump truly doesn't know why it's noble to bring some people from horrible places here, then he is a bigger jerk than I thought. And I thought he was a pretty big jerk.

Where do you get that he doesn't know why it's noble? And is being noble another purpose besides empathy for an immigration policy?

"Historically, from the inception of this country, immigration "policy" has been very selective "

That's exactly true. Until, what, the Kennedy years?

Immigration and Nationality act of 1965--"It created a seven-category preference system, which gave priority to relatives of U.S. citizens and legal permanent residents and to professionals and other individuals with specialized skills." Still selective. And not based on empathy or nobility.

"there was no mention of "empathy" in it."

Oh. So if the word isn't explicitly stated on an immigration document, then immigration policy cannot be based on empathy? I thought it was kind of obvious.

The change in the 1965 immigration policy was to eliminate the preference for European immigrants, and to create a more "multicultural" society. It was not based on empathy or nobility. The immigration "problem" created by that change arose when amnesty was given to the millions of illegal "immigrants" here which not only brought about an unanticipated (by "Conservatives--maybe "liberals" did anticipate it) huge shift in demographics, especially when it was enhanced with chain migration. If you empathize with chain migration and think it is a noble thing, you're welcome to your opinion. I don't agree with such an opinion.

"What he doesn't want is massive thousands (of any kind) immigrating here within a vey short space of time, among whom would be many, if not a majority of those, especially from sh*thole countries, who do not fit the type 'you want"

That's not what he said. If he said "I don't want immigrants who won't be good neighbors", no one would take issue with that. No one. That's not what he said.

Nor did he say anything about race. He has said, at other times, similar things about immigration which you espouse.

People cannot control what country they are born into. I'm not a huge fan of attacking people for things they did not choose, and have zero control over.

When did he "attack" some because of the country they were born in?

"You read racism into what he said"

Possibly racist in my opinion. I don't have a history of screaming racism every time someone I disagree with opens his mouth. It takes something to get me to that point. To assume that people from Norway are automatically superior to people from Africa and Haiti, isn't something I like coming out of the mouth of my POTUS. If he runs against Hilary again in 2020, I will once again have his sign on my lawn. But I thought this statement was deeply offensive.

Was he referring to "whites" or to a compatible culture peopled by those who are far more likely to have the skill sets and attitudes that fit our needs then those raised in a sh*thole?

I'm not even saying I'm opposed to being more selective in immigration, to bring people who are more likely to thrive and more likely to embrace our culture, I have no problem with that. He just sounded like a eugenicist. Let the liberals worship Margaret Sanger, I don't want that filth where I breathe.
From what he has said about immigration at other times, it sounds that you and he are more in agreement than disagreement. You may be giving him more credit than he deserves for being scientifically inclined. I think business, not eugenics, is his wheelhouse and point of view. He certainly has not said he believed in eugenics.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:46 PM   #34
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I wonder if some of that Clinton Foundation $ found its way to Haiti as it was supposed to if the place would less of a shiithole ��
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I read today today that a total of 6 homes were built with funds from the Clinton Foundation, cost was a little less than was spent on Chelsea's wedding
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:06 PM   #35
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I read today today that a total of 6 homes were built with funds from the Clinton Foundation, cost was a little less than was spent on Chelsea's wedding


You ask me this website has become a ShiitHole ever since this political forum was added.
Not a day goes by there’s no political post & replies and nothing about fishing
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:25 PM   #36
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You ask me this website has become a ShiitHole ever since this political forum was added.
Not a day goes by there’s no political post & replies and nothing about fishing
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Well there is that one thread in the Ice Fishing section that has been ok. Seen a few good pictures of bass and some big trout on there. And I enjoy seeing some of those beautiful flies that SaltyDog posts.

Sometimes this political forum reminds me to much of the comment sections on all the online news sites. The fish don't care who you voted for. I would bet that more than a few fishing friendships or possible friendships have been soured or prevented by this forum alone.

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Old 01-12-2018, 08:01 PM   #37
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From what he has said about immigration at other times, it sounds that you and he are more in agreement than disagreement. You may be giving him more credit than he deserves for being scientifically inclined. I think business, not eugenics, is his wheelhouse and point of view. He certainly has not said he believed in eugenics.
"Empathy is a fine thing. Most of us empathize. But it cannot be a rational purpose for an immigration policy."

The Battle Hymn Of The Republic says, I think, "as He died to make men holy, let us die to set them free". If empathy for people is a valid reason to go to war, surely it's enough of a reason to let some people come here.

"Where do you get that he doesn't know why it's noble? "

He asked why we are bringing in people from these countries? That tells me, he doesn't currently know why we would want to do it.

"If you empathize with chain migration and think it is a noble thing, you're welcome to your opinion. I don't agree with such an opinion."

I think I agree with you on that one. Being related to someone who is here, isn't a good enough reason, in and of itself.

"it sounds that you and he are more in agreement than disagreement"

I would bet you are probably right. I agree with most of his policy agenda. It's just that his choice of wording, is so unnecessarily offensive. Who would deny that Haiti is a sh*thole country?

I agree that these are sh*thole countries. They are beyond dysfunctional, horribly run, and causing immeasurable despair. But that's exactly why I want to bring some people from those places. People in Norway aren't tortured to death for speaking against the government, they don't need our help.

"You may be giving him more credit than he deserves for being scientifically inclined"

You re probably right on that score, as well.

The other aspect of this that angers me, is about domestic politics. Because of the economy, and because of which senators are up for re-election in November, what the democrats should be talking about, is whether or not the GOP will win unanimously in November. But because of this guy's inability to keep from saying godawful things, if the elections were today, the democrats would probably re-take the house. I don't want that nutjob Pelosi as speaker of the House again, and Trump is making that more likely, and I just can't stand it.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:09 PM   #38
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I read today today that a total of 6 homes were built with funds from the Clinton Foundation, cost was a little less than was spent on Chelsea's wedding
Oh good lord.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:20 PM   #39
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You ask me this website has become a ShiitHole ever since this political forum was added.
Not a day goes by there’s no political post & replies and nothing about fishing
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Agreed. I come here to check for new posts. See none other than this forum. Go over to other site for stuff to read about fishing or the tavern...

“Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms.” – James Madison.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:27 PM   #40
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I always find it odd, how it's always someone says they heard or a he said she said crap. I work in the government and every meeting there is someone taking notes or recording the meeting for others to view later. It's just weird to have no record of what was actually said or not.

And besides the point, who cares if he said, shiithole countries. Trump is a capitalist and isnt thinking like a racist, he is purely thinking it is economically smarter to be more careful where we accept the most immigrants from. I have not been to Haiti, but I have been to Peru, Ecuador, Shri Lanka, Papua New Guinea, Malaysia, Philippines, and Indonesia to name a few of the countries that I would call shiithole countries. Many of the people there are great, friendly and hard working, but their government policies and economic hardships make them shiithole countries. I believe that it wouldnt be a bad idea to accept immigrants from all or most all countries, with them all having similar limits on how many. If we have a limit of 500 from Sweden then Mexico should have the same 500 with the same requirements for employability and such. Shiithole countries are not necessarily filled with shiiity people. If we accept them then we should ensure they have the ability to succeed and not just let them all in. By limiting them and making certain requirements we help both them and America.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:08 PM   #41
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What really happened...
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:09 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
"Empathy is a fine thing. Most of us empathize. But it cannot be a rational purpose for an immigration policy."

The Battle Hymn Of The Republic says, I think, "as He died to make men holy, let us die to set them free". If empathy for people is a valid reason to go to war, surely it's enough of a reason to let some people come here.

Jim, Jim, Jim . . . you're a Christian . . . put a little religion in a religious battle hymn. Making men holy is not about empathy or being noble. Verses like "He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath [not empathy] are stored . . . they have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps; I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps . . . He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment seat; O be swift, my soul, to answer Him! Be jubilant my feet . . . with a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me; as He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free, while God is marching on" are not about being empathetic or noble. They are about doing what is righteous in the eyes of God. "Wrath. . . altar . . . judgment," and a soul answering to Him (God), transfiguring us so as to make us capable and righteous and God fearing and God loving enough to die to make men free from the sin of slavery are about Christian duty not about empathy or nobility.

Great song BTW. It was supposed to have inspired the Northern troops. But not because of empathy for the slaves.



"Where do you get that he doesn't know why it's noble? "

He asked why we are bringing in people from these countries? That tells me, he doesn't currently know why we would want to do it.

It sounds more like a rhetorical "why" rather than an inquisitive one.

"If you empathize with chain migration and think it is a noble thing, you're welcome to your opinion. I don't agree with such an opinion."

I think I agree with you on that one. Being related to someone who is here, isn't a good enough reason, in and of itself.

"it sounds that you and he are more in agreement than disagreement"

I would bet you are probably right. I agree with most of his policy agenda. It's just that his choice of wording, is so unnecessarily offensive. Who would deny that Haiti is a sh*thole country?

It's a sign of desperation when the left's attacks are reduced to Trump's choice of words.

I agree that these are sh*thole countries. They are beyond dysfunctional, horribly run, and causing immeasurable despair. But that's exactly why I want to bring some people from those places. People in Norway aren't tortured to death for speaking against the government, they don't need our help.

But the point of immigration is to help us, not to help Norway, or Haiti, or any country from whence immigrants come.

"You may be giving him more credit than he deserves for being scientifically inclined"

You re probably right on that score, as well.

The other aspect of this that angers me, is about domestic politics. Because of the economy, and because of which senators are up for re-election in November, what the democrats should be talking about, is whether or not the GOP will win unanimously in November. But because of this guy's inability to keep from saying godawful things, if the elections were today, the democrats would probably re-take the house. I don't want that nutjob Pelosi as speaker of the House again, and Trump is making that more likely, and I just can't stand it.
You may be right about that. The Dems and their media lackeys are latching on to anything they can find or manufacture in order to distract from Trump's significant achievements to this point. They have to hurry up and stop his cannonball express before it gathers enough steam to roll right over them.

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Old 01-13-2018, 04:56 AM   #43
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Seems people have accepted the the POTUS should not be held to any standard.. of behavior or decency... Trump demands respect for himself and the Country and his office

But he does not give respect All Americans he shames the office and disrespects other Nations .. and his base rally around his Nationalism
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:59 AM   #44
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You ask me this website has become a ShiitHole ever since this political forum was added.
Not a day goes by there’s no political post & replies and nothing about fishing
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Say's the guy who seldom starts a thread in the fishing section during the year

at least in a political post you cant get accused of spot burning
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:44 AM   #45
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Detbuch, if Trump had said "we can't take in untold millions of penniless immigrants. We need more people who are already self sufficient and who live in a culture more like ours". If he had said that, I wouldn't have a problem with it, because the unfortunate truth is that it's an accurate thing to say.

It's also OK to call Haiti a #^&#^&#^&#^&hole country, because that's exactly what it is. Violently oppressive, horribly corrupt, beyond dysfunctional. He didn't say, or even come close to implying, that all Haitians are #^&#^&#^&#^&ty people, yet of course that's exactly how the media is spinning it. I saw people on every channel last night talking about the wonderful Haitian people they know. That's absurd. He was talking about the way the country is run. And he is right.

A year in, he has to know that statement, will be painted as if he said "we need fewer blacks and more whites". Maybe that's what he meant. Maybe it's not close to what he meant. But the media is going to act as if that's exactly what he said, and that increases the likelihood that Nancy Pelosi becomes the speaker again. We can't have that.
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:45 AM   #46
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Stormy Daniels LOL
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:53 AM   #47
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There also may be some question as to what Trump actually said. Trump is denying it, which is to be taken with a grain of salt.

Dick Durbin claims he said it, which is also to be taken with a grain of salt.

Senator Tom Cotton (Republican who has been very critical of Trump in the past, graduate of Harvard and Harvard Law, Iraq combat veteran), claims he didn't hear Trump say sh*thole.

Who knows.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:08 AM   #48
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You ask me this website has become a ShiitHole ever since this political forum was added.
Not a day goes by there’s no political post & replies and nothing about fishing
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Not true but it's a free country still last time I checked so you can exaggerate, there were zero posts in this forum for 2 full days on the 7th and 8th. Don't believe me? go check yourself.
You think the site is a shiithole, try being more positive instead of negative. But nobody asked you. Don't read the stuff you don't like. simple, so be more positive Ronnie or at least try to be

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Old 01-13-2018, 09:38 AM   #49
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Detbuch, if Trump had said "we can't take in untold millions of penniless immigrants. We need more people who are already self sufficient and who live in a culture more like ours". If he had said that, I wouldn't have a problem with it, because the unfortunate truth is that it's an accurate thing to say.

It's also OK to call Haiti a #^&#^&#^&#^&hole country, because that's exactly what it is. Violently oppressive, horribly corrupt, beyond dysfunctional. He didn't say, or even come close to implying, that all Haitians are #^&#^&#^&#^&ty people, yet of course that's exactly how the media is spinning it. I saw people on every channel last night talking about the wonderful Haitian people they know. That's absurd. He was talking about the way the country is run. And he is right.

A year in, he has to know that statement, will be painted as if he said "we need fewer blacks and more whites". Maybe that's what he meant. Maybe it's not close to what he meant. But the media is going to act as if that's exactly what he said, and that increases the likelihood that Nancy Pelosi becomes the speaker again. We can't have that.
Whatever he said or didn't say, it was not a public statement. It was in a closed door session. I don't believe that Dick Durbin, or Nancy Pelosi, or Bill Clinton, Or Barack Obama always used polite language in such sessions. It is recorded that many past presidents had potty mouths when not speaking to the public. Even Trump's presidential opponent, HRC, has been accused of foul mouthed language behind the scenes. It didn't bother her base or the mainstream media that she did. With Trump, it's a different matter. When he does it, he is unfit to be President.

It may be that, just as other Presidents and politicians were not seriously harmed for overly salty language, it may not hurt Trump. Of course, re Trump, it must always be "racist," or one of the other pick your poison phobes.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:28 AM   #50
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Whatever he said or didn't say, it was not a public statement. It was in a closed door session. I don't believe that Dick Durbin, or Nancy Pelosi, or Bill Clinton, Or Barack Obama always used polite language in such sessions. It is recorded that many past presidents had potty mouths when not speaking to the public. Even Trump's presidential opponent, HRC, has been accused of foul mouthed language behind the scenes. It didn't bother her base or the mainstream media that she did. With Trump, it's a different matter. When he does it, he is unfit to be President.

It may be that, just as other Presidents and politicians were not seriously harmed for overly salty language, it may not hurt Trump. Of course, re Trump, it must always be "racist," or one of the other pick your poison phobes.
"It didn't bother her base or the mainstream media that she did. With Trump, it's a different matter. When he does it, he is unfit to be President."

That's true. And it's unfair. And it's also the reality, and Trump needs to remember that and not play into their hands in a way that helps them. I love it when he beats the media at their own game of fighting dirty. But I don't like it when he makes it easier for them to csling mud.

"it may not hurt Trump."

But it may hurt some GOP candidates running in purple districts. I want to keep the majority in the house. Trump needs to act as if that's his top priority.

I got caught up in an emotional reaction to what I was told he said. Even if he said it, while I wouldn't advise him to use that language until after the midterms, it's probably not as godawful a thing to say as I initially reacted. Those are sh*thole countries, that cannot be denied. That is not a criticism of the innocent people who live there, it's a criticism of the tyrants who run those places.

Detbuch, there is a family that runs the local gas station/convenience store in my town, been there for 15 years. I go in there most Sundays to fill my tank and buy the paper. They were from Liberia, one of the worst countries that ever existed. Came with nothing.

Got a job running the gas station. When they first got there, every Sunday, I'd see the Mom, Dad, son, and daughter. Always working. The kids were not playing video games, they were either working or studying. I got to know these people fairly well. They could not believe there was a place where they could work in an air conditioned building with running water and a flush toilet, selling things to happy customers all day long. They usually work 7 days a week. They could not believe the schools their kids went to with computers, teachers specializing in different classes, band, choir, activities. They could not believe they lived in an apartment that was comfortable and had a TV. They could not believe there was a country that took them out of the hell they were in, and transported them here.

The kids are both out of medical school, doing their residency or internships together.

Th parents cannot believe their good fortune, at what their kids are doing, compared to what might have happened.

The dad also tells me when he watches the news and he hears reporters talking about what a horrible racist place the US is, he cannot believe they are talking about the country that did so much for his family. He also told me something I will never, ever forget. He said it's better for a poor black man to be born in Africa and then to come here, than it is to be born in a place like Chicago. Because people in Chicago for some reason, embrace a culture that doesn't lend itself to a productive life. Whereas he had nothing, so he didn't take anything for granted. He can't believe that there are people who don't take full advantage of the opportunities here. I will never forget what he said, and I think he's exactly correct. But to hear it from his, is more profound and moving, than it is to hear it from a politician.

We can't take in all the world's poor. But I wouldn't want to limit immigration to self-sufficient white people either. Obviously it hurts poor Americans to import millions of unskilled penniless immigrants willing to work for 5 cents a day. We need some balance.

But there's something so right, so glorious, so uniquely American, about what this family's story is. And every town in America has families like that. These people love this country deeply, and have little patience for those who say that only the rich can get ahead, that there is institutional racism, etc.

Does that make any sense? I'm not even sure what I'm saying, I'm babbling a bit. I need to go get some gas and see this family, which always cheers me up. Always.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:55 AM   #51
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Thank goodness that there were a series of social welfare programs and a liberal imigration policy that let this family in and get their start.
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:24 PM   #52
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Whatever he said or didn't say, it was not a public statement. It was in a closed door session.
Doesn't matter.

Quote:
I don't believe that Dick Durbin, or Nancy Pelosi, or Bill Clinton, Or Barack Obama always used polite language in such sessions. It is recorded that many past presidents had potty mouths when not speaking to the public. Even Trump's presidential opponent, HRC, has been accused of foul mouthed language behind the scenes. It didn't bother her base or the mainstream media that she did. With Trump, it's a different matter. When he does it, he is unfit to be President
This has nothing to do with foul language.
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Old 01-13-2018, 01:13 PM   #53
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Any person who thinks Haiti is not a crap hole has not been there. If he said it I am not exactly shocked.
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Old 01-13-2018, 01:34 PM   #54
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Thank goodness that there were a series of social welfare programs and a liberal imigration policy that let this family in and get their start.
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Liberal programs brought him in - maybe. Once here, the nuclear family stayed very close together, worked 80+ hours a week, he kept a close eye on his kids, they go to church, and his kids studied like crazy. You tell me, does that more resemble liberalism or conservatism.

One generation - ONE - and his kids graduated from medical school. That doesn't happen in a racist country where we only care about the top 1%. Liberals never stop claiming otherwise, because it's much easier for poor people to be told that they are poor because wealthy people stole from them, then it is to hear that they are poor because they chose not to work as hard, or make as good decision, as this family.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:07 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
"It didn't bother her base or the mainstream media that she did. With Trump, it's a different matter. When he does it, he is unfit to be President."

That's true. And it's unfair. And it's also the reality, and Trump needs to remember that and not play into their hands in a way that helps them. I love it when he beats the media at their own game of fighting dirty. But I don't like it when he makes it easier for them to csling mud.

"it may not hurt Trump."

But it may hurt some GOP candidates running in purple districts. I want to keep the majority in the house. Trump needs to act as if that's his top priority

If the GOP candidates in purple states would quit acting purple instead of red, thus making it difficult for a Trump-like agenda to get passed, they might have a better chance to get re-elected than if Trump stopped being Trump.

I got caught up in an emotional reaction to what I was told he said. Even if he said it, while I wouldn't advise him to use that language until after the midterms, it's probably not as godawful a thing to say as I initially reacted. Those are sh*thole countries, that cannot be denied. That is not a criticism of the innocent people who live there, it's a criticism of the tyrants who run those places

The manufactured hullabaloo over what he supposedly said was exactly meant to get you and most everyone else caught up in an emotional reaction. It was not intended that you would recover and come to your senses so soon. It was meant that it would be another really shocking part of the continual pile on which will extend at least until the next election.


Detbuch, there is a family that runs the local gas station/convenience store in my town, been there for 15 years. I go in there most Sundays to fill my tank and buy the paper. They were from Liberia, one of the worst countries that ever existed. Came with nothing.

Got a job running the gas station. When they first got there, every Sunday, I'd see the Mom, Dad, son, and daughter. Always working. The kids were not playing video games, they were either working or studying. I got to know these people fairly well. They could not believe there was a place where they could work in an air conditioned building with running water and a flush toilet, selling things to happy customers all day long. They usually work 7 days a week. They could not believe the schools their kids went to with computers, teachers specializing in different classes, band, choir, activities. They could not believe they lived in an apartment that was comfortable and had a TV. They could not believe there was a country that took them out of the hell they were in, and transported them here.

The kids are both out of medical school, doing their residency or internships together.

Th parents cannot believe their good fortune, at what their kids are doing, compared to what might have happened.

The dad also tells me when he watches the news and he hears reporters talking about what a horrible racist place the US is, he cannot believe they are talking about the country that did so much for his family. He also told me something I will never, ever forget. He said it's better for a poor black man to be born in Africa and then to come here, than it is to be born in a place like Chicago. Because people in Chicago for some reason, embrace a culture that doesn't lend itself to a productive life. Whereas he had nothing, so he didn't take anything for granted. He can't believe that there are people who don't take full advantage of the opportunities here. I will never forget what he said, and I think he's exactly correct. But to hear it from his, is more profound and moving, than it is to hear it from a politician.

We can't take in all the world's poor. But I wouldn't want to limit immigration to self-sufficient white people either. Obviously it hurts poor Americans to import millions of unskilled penniless immigrants willing to work for 5 cents a day. We need some balance.

But there's something so right, so glorious, so uniquely American, about what this family's story is. And every town in America has families like that. These people love this country deeply, and have little patience for those who say that only the rich can get ahead, that there is institutional racism, etc.

Does that make any sense? I'm not even sure what I'm saying, I'm babbling a bit. I need to go get some gas and see this family, which always cheers me up. Always.
That's a wonderful story. As I said above, and a few times in other threads, I live in a community of Latinos most of whom emigrated here from Mexico. They have revived the neighborhood which was, as was much of Detroit, decaying in the care of unemployed and welfare dependent blacks, mostly, but likewise several remaining whites. Mexican Town which runs along the full length of Vernor Ave is thriving with small businesses and refurbished homes. So I know that story well--many times over. I also knew and worked with many blacks that emigrated from Jamaica and Nigeria. For the most part, they also did very well as far as education and employment. I also worked with more than a few Asians. They did extremely well, But, I also worked with and know many whites who came from Europe. And they too did and do very well.

So why do the immigrant spectrum of races do better than our abundant population of unproductive blacks and whites? Why do our homegrown "tired poor and huddled masses" so much remain that way? It's obviously, as our immigrants demonstrate, not because of race or poverty or discrimination. Why would your Liberian dad be correct when he says that "it's better for a poor black man to be born in Africa and then to come here, than it is to be born in a place like Chicago. Because people in Chicago for some reason, embrace a culture that doesn't lend itself to a productive life"? Why do those people in Chicago embrace an unproductive culture? I can't believe that the sheer number of our native poor and unproductive are merely at the mental bottom of the Bell Curve. There are too many for that to be the case.

If the Immigrants can do it, so should most of our home grown lackers. You and I, and "Conservatives" have been saying for a long time why they can't. But the intellectual, Progressive, elites, know better. We are the Yahoos. If it were left to us, the nation would be a backward bush country drenched in racism and redneck religion. Our retrograde notions of self reliance, individualism, personal responsibility, liberty, are all just a means of preserving the old status quo of white supremacy.

I got a rather disappointing insight a couple of decades ago into how the welfare state could plant its seeds of destruction. My wife tutored the kids of one of the Mexican families who we were very close with. Emilio and Yolanda came from Mexico and had an extended family here. They were all industrious, mostly self-employed in a beauty parlor and home handyman repair work. They wanted their kids to do better. So they asked my wife, a university English professor, to tutor them, especially in language and writing skills. Their daughter did well. Went to college and became a lawyer. I would rather her degree would have been in something more productive. But what really made my heart sink is that she became an advocate for social welfare justice for Latino families.

Apparently, what she learned in our educational system was that the way her parents did it was not the good mode. The good way was for the government to clear the path and assist along the way. And, more importantly, that the government should provide programs and services, family or otherwise, for those, the growing number of those, who needed "help," even permanent help because they would be held back by discrimination, etc., etc. I'm sure you know the drill.

So the first generation is happy to participate in "The American Dream." You know, that freedom and personal responsibility nonsense, etc. etc. And if they're successful enough, their kids can go to college and learn to be Social Justice Warriors, or social justice fellow travelers who help spread the word and educate the rest of us about what the good way is.

It is nice and heartwarming, even inspirational and affirmative of our belief in what used to be accepted as American values, to see the fleshed out stories similar to your Liberian family. And I hope, even wish, that their children and grandchildren will cherish their views on freedom and opportunity, on the American way, and not become creatures of the state.

But I prefer, rather than replacing with immigrants our failed millions who have had their integrity sucked out of them by the welfare state, that we replace immigration with our own dysfunctionals by forcing them to be functional. "Help" them emigrate from their government induced dystopian existence into the fulfilling existence of productive, responsible, independent humans, by giving them a sink or swim choice, just as the immigrants from foreign nations have had to choose.

If we don't do that, then we can look forward to massively adding to the number of dysfunctional unemployed as many of the children and grandchildren of the marvelous, productive, and grateful immigrants pass through our Progressive educational system, abandon their parents basic and humble ways, and become bitter, anti-American, Progressive SJW's or just add to the unemployment roles.

Last edited by detbuch; 01-13-2018 at 04:17 PM..
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:50 PM   #56
wdmso
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20 years active duty navy, stationed in Japan for 6 years, completed three 6 month deployments to the Gulf and three 6 month deployments to South America. I have been to just about every country in South America and Asia. We as a country cannot feed and help the world by bringing their people to America. Our resources are finite and in the end all you will do is make the US just as bad.

We need to stop giving "handouts" and start giving jobs and opportunity. Want to immigrate to the US, we should have a job site, where people can view jobs and locations, apply for the job, get hired, pass a back ground check and poof, now you are a legal immigrant that is helping the country and not hindering it.



We are the "Land of Opportunity", not "Lactation Nation" where we breast feed you from cradle to grave. Try to feed the world and you will end up very dried up and sagging to your knees.

Immigration should be connected with employment and opportunity and not based entirely on charity.

if you spent that much time in the navy you have seen the true face of immigration of those who stood next to you .. or did you treat them with the same arrogance and mis information you display here..

its a republican fantasy that immigration is based on charity ! thats the story it tell its base before they go to bed same with chain migration ... a lie

the current system is a republican design .. they had prayed that immigration was going to come from western europe and when they got here they would bring their families who were like them and all would be safe and white

but in the 70-and 80s the demographic change it was Africa and south Americans (brown people ) who came legally and brought their families under the system that republicans built..

Nigerians will 'never go back to their huts'
Haitians immigrants 'all have AIDS'
Lottery program sends us 'their worst'
Mexico is sending 'rapists' and 'drug dealers'

So feel free to keep defending this embarrassment
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:01 PM   #57
spence
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Any person who thinks Haiti is not a crap hole has not been there. If he said it I am not exactly shocked.
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Haiti might not be the best place to visit, but the people who reported after the tragic quake said they were amazed with the character and strength of the people.

Enjoy your bed tonight.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:05 PM   #58
detbuch
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Haiti might not be the best place to visit, but the people who reported after the tragic quake said they were amazed with the character and strength of the people.

Enjoy your bed tonight.
Such a people of great character and strength should be able to build a great nation. A great Haiti.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:28 PM   #59
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if you spent that much time in the navy you have seen the true face of immigration of those who stood next to you .. or did you treat them with the same arrogance and mis information you display here..

its a republican fantasy that immigration is based on charity ! thats the story it tell its base before they go to bed same with chain migration ... a lie

the current system is a republican design .. they had prayed that immigration was going to come from western europe and when they got here they would bring their families who were like them and all would be safe and white

but in the 70-and 80s the demographic change it was Africa and south Americans (brown people ) who came legally and brought their families under the system that republicans built..

Nigerians will 'never go back to their huts'
Haitians immigrants 'all have AIDS'
Lottery program sends us 'their worst'
Mexico is sending 'rapists' and 'drug dealers'

So feel free to keep defending this embarrassment
WOW! I am sorry I had no idea of the extent of your mental illness. If I offended you in any way please tell your Mommy that I am sorry that she raised a very "special" little boy/girl....

You didnt read a word I said or put even an ounce of thought into your reply, it's just utter nonsense...

Last edited by Cool Beans; 01-14-2018 at 10:49 AM..
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Old 01-14-2018, 07:32 AM   #60
Jim in CT
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When I used to give blood, they would ask if I had ever been to Haiti. If I answered yes, the Red Cross didn’t want my blood. If that’s not a sh*thole, is really hate to see what is.
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