I NEVER KNEW

[UserRemoved1]

That the American flag caused RACIAL TENSION AND UNREST

School Makes Boy Take American Flag Off Bike - KTXL

[JohnnyD]

The pussification of America. Stuff like this really pisses me off. If I were the parents, I'd go completely out of my mind and be looking for those responsible to pay with their jobs.

First, kids can't wear tshirts with the American Flag on the 5th of May because it is offensive to the Mexican students (hop the fence right back to Mexico if you don't like our flag) and now a kid can't have a flag on his bike because other people have complained?

"Tolerance" and "Acceptance" will be the downfall of this society.

[iamskippy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

The pussification of America. ?

"Tolerance" and "Acceptance" will be the downfall of this society.

Johnny, can you elaberate a bit more please?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

First, kids can't wear tshirts with the American Flag on the 5th of May because it is offensive to the Mexican students (hop the fence right back to Mexico if you don't like our flag) and now a kid can't have a flag on his bike because other people have complained?

Can I make a statement w/out everybody going Apechit...

I agree that the reason they made him take it off his bike was complet BS. and I also agree that telling people that they can't wear it on a shirt because it will offend is also complete BS. And I would go ballistic if it happened to my kid.

But neither one of those ways of displaying the flag is appropriate Flag Ettiquette. The American Flag is NEVER supposed to be warn on clothing unless its a Military Uniform or another Patriotic Organization. and if flown on a Vehicle it needs to be mounted on the Right Front Fender...not on the back of a bike.

Like I said...I'm as patriotic as the next guy and I laud everybody who embraces their country and displays the flag however they want.

I just wish people would do it the way its supposed to be done.

One of my biggest pet peeves is when I see someone driving down the street with a couple of Big tattered beaten up flags waving on the back of their jeep...that is pretty disrespectful if you ask me.......

I guess I just wish people would show the Proper respect for the flag....all the time.


Have at me...I know its comin'

[buckman]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Can I make a statement w/out everybody going Apechit...

I agree that the reason they made him take it off his bike was complet BS. and I also agree that telling people that they can't wear it on a shirt because it will offend is also complete BS. And I would go ballistic if it happened to my kid.

But neither one of those ways of displaying the flag is appropriate Flag Ettiquette. The American Flag is NEVER supposed to be warn on clothing unless its a Military Uniform or another Patriotic Organization. and if flown on a Vehicle it needs to be mounted on the Right Front Fender...not on the back of a bike.

Like I said...I'm as patriotic as the next guy and I laud everybody who embraces their country and displays the flag however they want.

I just wish people would do it the way its supposed to be done.

One of my biggest pet peeves is when I see someone driving down the street with a couple of Big tattered beaten up flags waving on the back of their jeep...that is pretty disrespectful if you ask me.......

I guess I just wish people would show the Proper respect for the flag....all the time.


Have at me...I know its comin'

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Can I make a statement w/out everybody going Apechit...

I agree that the reason they made him take it off his bike was complet BS. and I also agree that telling people that they can't wear it on a shirt because it will offend is also complete BS. And I would go ballistic if it happened to my kid.

But neither one of those ways of displaying the flag is appropriate Flag Ettiquette. The American Flag is NEVER supposed to be warn on clothing unless its a Military Uniform or another Patriotic Organization. and if flown on a Vehicle it needs to be mounted on the Right Front Fender...not on the back of a bike.

Like I said...I'm as patriotic as the next guy and I laud everybody who embraces their country and displays the flag however they want.

I just wish people would do it the way its supposed to be done.

One of my biggest pet peeves is when I see someone driving down the street with a couple of Big tattered beaten up flags waving on the back of their jeep...that is pretty disrespectful if you ask me.......

I guess I just wish people would show the Proper respect for the flag....all the time.


Have at me...I know its comin'

I don't disagree with you one bit. The flags on people's cars that are all tattered irritate the hell out of me, as do the frequent occurrences when I see the American flag in someone's yard next to the flag from another country and they are at the same height.

To be honest, I don't think most people now-a-days are aware of proper Flag Etiquette.

[Sea Dangles]

So Salty is disrespectful in your opinion?I think it is more about intent,but please answer the question honestly because his van certainly does not meet your criteria.

[UserRemoved1]

Oh do tell sea jangles everyone is dying to hear your opinion



Shame you got such a boner for me pal.

[Sea Dangles]

Actually Booger,In this rare instance my intent is not to belittle you.It's just that your vehicle,which I think is badass and patriotic,was the first thing that came to mind when I read TDF's filibuster.This is called a discussion,sometimes they can be constructive and inciteful when you get respectful points of view.But in this instance,instead of your van ,we can say a vehicle with similar creativity.IMO your ride is 4th of July parade material.

[UserRemoved1]

Then I make an apology. I based my comment on previous issues.

Thanks for the compliment. Fishfreak takes credit.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

So Salty is disrespectful in your opinion?I think it is more about intent,but please answer the question honestly because his van certainly does not meet your criteria.

I guess you missed this part

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Like I said...I'm as patriotic as the next guy and I laud everybody who embraces their country and displays the flag however they want.

[Raven]

if it was my kid he would be home schooled
from that day forward



I rest my Case

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I guess you missed this part

TDF, I'm trying to interpret the entire post rather than single paragraphs.Seems a little contradictory though.Especially when you can choose to laud someone who,at the same time, when in your words he is being disrespectful by showing his patriotism with a tattered flag on his vehicle or home.Which you called one of your biggest pet peeves.Please don't take it personally,I guess I need to be educated regarding flag ettiquette.So, it's NOT OK when emblazoned on a shirt,but is fine when emblazoned on a vehicle as long as it is not depicted as tattered?Please clarify your statement because the initial post you made seems confusing.

[BigFish]

Is it ok on a fishing lure??

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

TDF, I'm trying to interpret the entire post rather than single paragraphs.Seems a little contradictory though.Especially when you can choose to laud someone who,at the same time, when in your words he is being disrespectful by showing his patriotism with a tattered flag on his vehicle or home.Which you called one of your biggest pet peeves.Please don't take it personally,I guess I need to be educated regarding flag ettiquette.So, it's NOT OK when emblazoned on a shirt,but is fine when emblazoned on a vehicle as long as it is not depicted as tattered?Please clarify your statement because the initial post you made seems confusing.

Its mixed emotions.....May seem a little contradictory because me and the written word don't exactly get along perfectly at times

I can't be mad at somebody for showing patriotism, but lots of times it is not done by proper flag etiquette.

Technically the flag should not be on either places. The flag is supposed to be a flag....waving freely and in a good condition.

its funny too, but JohnnyD (not picking on you just pointing it out) says he gets upset when he sees a flag of another country at the same hight as the american flag....that actually IS proper flag etiquette.....as long as the American Flag is to the right (See Below)

a lot of people get fired up about disrespecting the flag....but don't really know what the proper etiquette is.

here is a list of what is proper flag etiquette.....

The Flag Code, which formalizes and unifies the traditional ways in which we give respect to the flag, also contains specific instructions on how the flag is not to be used. They are:

The flag should never be dipped to any person or thing. It is flown upside down only as a distress signal.

The flag should not be used as a drapery, or for covering a speakers desk, draping a platform, or for any decoration in general. Bunting of blue, white and red stripes is available for these purposes. The blue stripe of the bunting should be on the top.

The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard

The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, fireman, policeman and members of patriotic organizations.

The flag should never have placed on it, or attached to it, any mark, insignia, letter, word, number, figure, or drawing of any kind.

The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.

When the flag is lowered, no part of it should touch the ground or any other object; it should be received by waiting hands and arms. To store the flag it should be folded neatly and ceremoniously.

The flag should be cleaned and mended when necessary.

When a flag is so worn it is no longer fit to serve as a symbol of our country, it should be destroyed by burning in a dignified manner.

When the flag is displayed from a staff projecting from a window, balcony, or a building, the union should be at the peak of the staff unless the flag is at half staff.

When it is displayed from the same flagpole with another flag - of a state, community, society or Scout unit - the flag of the United States must always be at the top except that the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for Navy personnel when conducted by a Naval chaplain on a ship at sea.

When the flag is displayed over a street, it should be hung vertically, with the union to the north or east. If the flag is suspended over a sidewalk, the flag's union should be farthest from the building.

When flown with flags of states, communities, or societies on separate flag poles which are of the same height and in a straight line, the flag of the United States is always placed in the position of honor - to its own right.
..The other flags may be smaller but none may be larger.
..No other flag ever should be placed above it.
..The flag of the United States is always the first flag raised and the last to be lowered.

When flown with the national banner of other countries, each flag must be displayed from a separate pole of the same height. Each flag should be the same size. They should be raised and lowered simultaneously. The flag of one nation may not be displayed above that of another nation.

The flag should be raised briskly and lowered slowly and ceremoniously. Ordinarily it should be displayed only between sunrise and sunset. It should be illuminated if displayed at night.
The flag of the United States of America is saluted as it is hoisted and lowered. The salute is held until the flag is unsnapped from the halyard or through the last note of music, whichever is the longest.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Continued.....

Displaying the Flag Indoors
When on display, the flag is accorded the place of honor, always positioned to its own right. Place it to the right of the speaker or staging area or sanctuary. Other flags should be to the left.

The flag of the United States of America should be at the center and at the highest point of the group when a number of flags of states, localities, or societies are grouped for display.

When one flag is used with the flag of the United States of America and the staffs are crossed, the flag of the United States is placed on its own right with its staff in front of the other flag.

When displaying the flag against a wall, vertically or horizontally, the flag's union (stars) should be at the top, to the flag's own right, and to the observer's left.


Parading and Saluting the Flag
When carried in a procession, the flag should be to the right of the marchers. When other flags are carried, the flag of the United States may be centered in front of the others or carried to their right. When the flag passes in a procession, or when it is hoisted or lowered, all should face the flag and salute.


The Salute
To salute, all persons come to attention. Those in uniform give the appropriate formal salute. Citizens not in uniform salute by placing their right hand over the heart and men with head cover should remove it and hold it to left shoulder, hand over the heart. Members of organizations in formation salute upon command of the person in charge.

The Pledge of Allegiance and National Anthem
The pledge of allegiance should be rendered by standing at attention, facing the flag, and saluting.
When the national anthem is played or sung, citizens should stand at attention and salute at the first note and hold the salute through the last note. The salute is directed to the flag, if displayed, otherwise to the music.


The Flag in Mourning
To place the flag at half staff, hoist it to the peak for an instant and lower it to a position half way between the top and bottom of the staff. The flag is to be raised again to the peak for a moment before it is lowered. On Memorial Day the flag is displayed at half staff until noon and at full staff from noon to sunset.

The flag is to be flown at half staff in mourning for designated, principal government leaders and upon presidential or gubernatorial order.

When used to cover a casket, the flag should be placed with the union at the head and over the left shoulder. It should not be lowered into the grave.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Is it ok on a fishing lure??

or a condom?

apparently the libs in the bankrupt state of California have high on their priority list the following...banning American Flags, Happy Meals and Circumcision

all are highly offensive to many on the left and their varous constituency groups and should be eliminated or replaced with marajuana

[Sea Dangles]

Thank You TDF for a very thorough explanation.I'm 46 and had never seen such a list of requirements.I still stand by my original post when I mentioned intent.Salty must now send it to Maaco to atone for his patriotic advertising.

[scottw]

I attended a military funeral for a friend recently...watching the handling of the flag during that ceremony was remarkable and moving and my friend, who was a stickler for proper flag etiquitte would have been quite impressed..outside of the Boy Scouts and military, I'm not sure that it's taught or mentioned for the most part

[Raven]

in the SONG that is our National anthem

the line saying "and our Flag was still there"
yeah what was left of it....

it was completely shredded and tattered from explosions

yet it was the most beautiful sight
that the Observer jotted down what they were witnessing.

[RIJIMMY]

Out of curiosity - who makes the "flag rules"?
BTW - my birthday is June 14, flag day. I used to go to school with cupcakes with little american flags in them!

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Out of curiosity - who makes the "flag rules"?

"The laws relating to the flag of the United States of America are found in detail in the United States Code. Title 4, Chapter 1 pertains to the flag; Title 18, Chapter 33, Section 700 regards criminal penalties for flag desecration; Title 36, Chapter 3 pertains to patriotic customs and observances. These laws were supplemented by Executive Orders and Presidential Proclamations."

[The Dad Fisherman]

FYI.... now that your little guy is in scouts, they will be discussing the flag every time he moves up (i.e. Tigers, wolves, bears and so on) all the way through Boy Scouts.

Our troop does 99 percent of all the flag retirings in Georgetown as a service to the community.

always got to remind people its not a flag burning....its a flag retirement

[RIJIMMY]

wow, very, very interesting! thanks Dad F.
I remember a lot of that from when I was in scouts.

If I may, for the sake of argument. There is a difference between a flag and the replication of a flag. A sticker on a bike, is a picture of a flag, its not the flag. A painting of a flag on a truck, lure, or any other structure is a painting, not a flag. A flag picture on a sweathshirt is a picture or emblem, not a flag.
I believe these rules apply to actual American Flag, not a replica.
I would think the military has pretty high standards for following these rules, but - flag stickers and emblems appear on military aircraft, tanks, jeeps, etc - yet their not taken off at night, their out in inclement weather, etc. Very different than an actual flag.
My 2 cents, and I've convinced myseld Im right

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

wow, very, very interesting! thanks Dad F.
I remember a lot of that from when I was in scouts.

If I may, for the sake of argument. There is a difference between a flag and the replication of a flag. A sticker on a bike, is a picture of a flag, its not the flag. A painting of a flag on a truck, lure, or any other structure is a painting, not a flag. A flag picture on a sweathshirt is a picture or emblem, not a flag.
I believe these rules apply to actual American Flag, not a replica.
I would think the military has pretty high standards for following these rules, but - flag stickers and emblems appear on military aircraft, tanks, jeeps, etc - yet their not taken off at night, their out in inclement weather, etc. Very different than an actual flag.
My 2 cents, and I've convinced myseld Im right

forget everything I just said...........

The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to
it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any
nature.
(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying,
or delivering anything.
(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner
whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or
handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or
boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising
signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

[Jim in CT]

For what it's worth, I'm a vet who is not offended by less than perfect display of the flag. I figure most people who go to the trouble of putting it on their car or bike have good intentions. I think more people SHOULD be aware of proper etiquette, but I don't get worked up by it.

As to this school, shame on them. And if the principal doesn't think student safety can be maintained if a kid has a flag on his bike, there are bigger problems at that school. If that was my kid, the flag simply would not have come off the bike, no way, no how. Anyone who is grotesquely offended by the sight of that flag is free to voice his/her disapproval, just as that kid is free to display the flag on his bike.

If this isn't the epitome of liberal political correctness run amuck, I don't know what is.

[UserRemoved1]

I'm out of 80 grit anyone got some to loan?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

For what it's worth, I'm a vet who is not offended by less than perfect display of the flag. I figure most people who go to the trouble of putting it on their car or bike have good intentions. I think more people SHOULD be aware of proper etiquette, but I don't get worked up by it.

Thats pretty much where I lie on the issue.....I consider this thread a Public Service Announcemnet

[JohnnyD]

TDF, thanks for the information. As is obvious from the above, I'm ignorant of many of the details when it comes to flag etiquette. Never was in scouts and never read an actual resource. All my knowledge was sourced from people that have told me X and Y about what you are and aren't suppose to do.

Thanks again.

[FishermanTim]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Thats pretty much where I lie on the issue.....I consider this thread a Public Service Announcemnet

Thank you for the reminder, since "flags, patriotism and love of country" seem to be taboo in our schools these days. It's now up to us to remind our children about all manners of "ettiquette".