Tell Me Something

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

You argue that the employees are actually the ones paying for their Health Insurance,yes that companies pass the cost down.yes

Maybe in math?

Two companies, exactly the same except Company 1 requires employees pay more towards Health Insurance.

Company 1 + Higher Employee Contribution = Wage 1


Company 2 + Lower Employee Contribution = Wage 2

Wage 2 is not necessarily lower than Wage 1 because Company 2 pays more towards Health Insurance.

what???

Concerning:
I pay 100% of my health insurance because I own a business. On the other hand, my employees only pay *a portion* of their health insurance because *I* pay the other portion out of *my* (the business's) revenue.

no, everything is paid out of your business' revenue, wages and benfits overhead, however you slice it up, you have a cost to insure that employee that is factored into your cost to employ them which reflects their value and what they are entitled to in the form of compensation...they are receiving the full value of that health insurance premium as a form of compensation for their work regardless of how you claim to pay it




their value to you as an employer is determined by their wages plus all benefits...you keep(withhold) a portion of whatever their health insurance premium has been determined to be from their check most likely....the entire amount of what is forwarded to the insurance company is figured in to your actual cost to employ that person, it has to be if you run a business just as you need to know the cost to produce the product that you sell or the value of your service...what is the difference between you signing your employees check and you signing a check to the insurance company on the employees behalf?.....nothing...the value of their work created the revenue for you to be able to write the check, that employee is ultimately entitled to the entire amount of salary and benefs that you incur to employ them, that is their value...if you were to end all benefits tomorrow, that employee ought to get an increase in wages that reflects your entire cost to employ them because that is their determined value and they would then need to go out and seek those benefits on their own...otherwise you are a greedy bastard....

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by scottw

no, everything is paid out of your business' revenue, wages and benfits overhead, however you slice it up, you have a cost to insure that employee that is factored into your cost to employ them which reflects their value and what they are entitled to in the form of compensation...they are receiving the full value of that health insurance premium as a form of compensation for their work regardless of how you claim to pay it




their value to you as an employer is determined by their wages plus all benefits...you keep(withhold) a portion of whatever their health insurance premium has been determined to be from their check most likely....the entire amount of what is forwarded to the insurance company is figured in to your actual cost to employ that person, it has to be if you run a business just as you need to know the cost to produce the product that you sell or the value of your service...what is the difference between you signing your employees check and you signing a check to the insurance company on the employees behalf?.....nothing...the value of their work created the revenue for you to be able to write the check, that employee is ultimately entitled to the entire amount of salary and benefs that you incur to employ them, that is their value...if you were to end all benefits tomorrow, that employee ought to get an increase in wages that reflects your entire cost to employ them because that is their determined value and they would then need to go out and seek those benefits on their own...otherwise you are a greedy bastard....

By your crazy twisted philosophy, my employees also pay for my heat, electricity and to put fuel into the delivery vehicles.

Employees are entitled to the salary agreed upon before hiring and the option to take part in the health insurance plan. Should they choose not to take part in the plan, they aren't entitled to an increase of pay. The check to Tufts is merely another line item on the expense sheet.

Next you're going to argue that employees that choose not to take part in the 401k are entitled to have the employer's matching percentage added into their paycheck. What's the difference?

You're confusing wages with benefits.

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

By your crazy twisted philosophy

It's not a philosophy, he's just a troll.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

By your crazy twisted philosophy, my employees also pay for my heat, electricity and to put fuel into the delivery vehicles.their labor "value" does

Employees are entitled to the salary and benefits package agreed upon before hiring and the option to take part in the health insurance plan is optional?. Should they choose not to take part in the plan, they aren't entitled to an increase of pay why not, what are you doing with the money?. The check to Tufts is merely another line item on the expense sheetas are wages, both of which happen to be dedicated to employees.

Next you're going to argue that employees that choose not to take part in the 401k are entitled to have the employer's matching percentage added into their paycheck. yes What's the difference?what IS the difference, why are you willing to pay it today if they opt in but not tomorrow if they opt out, are they less valuable to you if they chose the latter?

You're confusing wages with benefits.

not at all, they are all costs of doing business, if you eliminate all benefits tomorrow, you could afford to pay them more...correct? why wouldn't you then pay them more...the money was already dedicated to them or on their behalf to an insurance company or retirement plan...are they suddenly less valuable to you if you eliminate the benefits???? and yes, in many cases opting out of health insurance entitles employees to a cash benefit in the form of higher wage which is why there are so many 20 and 30 something "uninsureds"...wages and benefits are the same thing essentially, combined they determine the value that you place on your employee...they are all paid out of your revenues(your compensation for their labor), just depends on how you slice it up...

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

not at all, they are all costs of doing business, if you eliminate all benefits tomorrow, you could afford to pay them more...correct? why wouldn't you then pay them more...the money was already dedicated to them or on their behalf to an insurance company or retirement plan...are they suddenly less valuable to you if you eliminate the benefits???? and yes, in many cases opting out of health insurance entitles employees to a cash benefit in the form of higher wage which is why there are so many 20 and 30 something "uninsureds"...wages and benefits are the same thing essentially, combined they determine the value that you place on your employee...they are all paid out of your revenues(your compensation for their labor), just depends on how you slice it up...

As usual, you're mostly wrong.

Benefits have a notional value that typically far exceeds the cash equivelent through tax exemptions, consolidated buying power or upside in the case of equities.

Rarely would you see an employeer give the employee full credit for not taking a benefit. That's exactly the point, by not giving cash the employee can see more value...they are not equal.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Rarely would you see an employeer give the employee full credit for not taking a benefit.
-spence

another weak Spencism....sneaky...it would be nice if you could just be honest once in a while rather than constantly engaging in word games....

Concerning:
I pay 100% of my health insurance because I own a business. On the other hand, my employees only pay *a portion* of their health insurance because *I* pay the other portion out of *my* (the business's) revenue.


JD, whay do you make them pay anything? Why not just pay the entire portion out of your "business revenue" if it has nothing to do with their predetermined wages?

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

another weak Spencism....sneaky...it would be nice if you could just be honest once in a while rather than constantly engaging in word games....

This isn't a word game. An insurance plan at a mid to large size company could have a notional value of 100K, a benefit value of 10K and an opt out cash value of 2K.

Obviously the larger the company the better ability to leverage economies of scale.

-spence