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Old 11-28-2018, 09:16 PM   #1
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Let's start

a gofund me page to send spence to see bill and hillary live on tour....I hear they need the help getting people to show up for this thing...
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Old 11-29-2018, 08:20 AM   #2
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a gofund me page to send spence to see bill and hillary live on tour....I hear they need the help getting people to show up for this thing...
they are playing some dinky arenas, that’s for sure, their stop in Wallingford CT is about the size of a high school gym. not exactly dripping with dignity.
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:34 AM   #3
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they are playing some dinky arenas, that’s for sure, their stop in Wallingford CT is about the size of a high school gym. not exactly dripping with dignity.
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You don’t hold an intimate speaking event in Madison Square Garden there Jim. I think the fact that they can make millions off of this speaks volumes.
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:11 AM   #4
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You don’t hold an intimate speaking event in Madison Square Garden there Jim. I think the fact that they can make millions off of this speaks volumes.
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maybe they should aim for something a little more intimate...


..as they gazed out at the more than 15,000 empty seats facing them last night in Toronto on their stadium speaking tour. Even though curtains were erected cutting the arena in half, the vacant seats far outnumbered the occupied ones. The U.K. Daily Mail reports that 3,300 tickets were sold in the Scotiabank Arena, which holds 19,800, 16.6% of capacity.

Perhaps even more humiliating, while ticket prices began at $53 (Canadian), the U.K. Daily Mail reported that "one ticket was going for $6.55 in the final minutes before the event."

Clinton-friendly CNN reports: And even Democrats loyal to the Clintons are questioning the decision to embark on the tour.

"I just think the optics of going to an event where people are paying to see them, and they are financially gaining from this, I am not sure that is the right way to reingratiate them back into the public sphere," said a former Clinton aide.

The very progressive Toronto Star's review of the performance headlined, "Hillary and Bill Clinton just won't go away."




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Old 11-29-2018, 10:15 AM   #5
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Extreme intimacy

The kind that echoes
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:30 AM   #6
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maybe they should aim for something a little more intimate...
I believe they only sold seats for a portion of the arena, the rest was blocked off intentionally. Most of the other venues look to be 2500-5000 seats.
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Old 11-29-2018, 11:17 AM   #7
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"While the aging Clintons spent much of the night bashing President Trump, they did so in front of a nearly empty room that proves just how out of touch they have both become."

in a related story...

another deranged former democrat president..

"I know we're in oil country and we need American energy, and by the way, American energy production," Obama told the audience gathered at Rice University's Baker Institute on Tuesday night. "You wouldn't always know it but it went up every year I was president. That whole, suddenly America's like the biggest oil producer and the biggest gas – that was ME, people." ...

"Just say thank you please."
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:42 PM   #8
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Half the people that showed up were told the were going to see The Nut Cracker, boy were they disappointed when they found out it wasn't the Ballet.
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Old 11-29-2018, 03:03 PM   #9
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You don’t hold an intimate speaking event in Madison Square Garden there Jim. I think the fact that they can make millions off of this speaks volumes.
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so they aren’t playing dinky arenas
because they are morally bankrupt has-beens. It’s because they want an intimate setting! If by ‘intimate’, you mean that Bill wants a good
look at all the boobies in the crowd, I agree.

You can spin with the best of them. Never a critical syllable, not now, not ever.
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Old 11-30-2018, 03:14 AM   #10
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I think the fact that they can make millions off of this speaks volumes.

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" I mean, I do think at a certain point you've made enough money. "

-Barak Obama


Newsweek-.

"So when some Americans, including Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren, saw former President Barack Obama accepting $400,000 speeches from Wall Street, signing book deals worth $65 million and vacationing with billionaires off the coast of Tahiti in a $300 million yacht, you can bet they were perplexed."

"He raked in $400,000–the equivalent to his annual presidential salary–for a 90-minute interview Thursday in midtown Manhattan, where he spoke with a presidential historian on things like income inequality.......But the Obamas are set to earn an unprecedented post-presidency income, "

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Old 11-30-2018, 04:38 AM   #11
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" I mean, I do think at a certain point you've made enough money. "

-Barak Obama did he state how much that was ?


Newsweek-.

"So when some Americans, including Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren, saw former President Barack Obama accepting $400,000 speeches from Wall Street, signing book deals worth $65 million and vacationing with billionaires off the coast of Tahiti in a $300 million yacht, you can bet they were perplexed."

"He raked in $400,000–the equivalent to his annual presidential salary–for a 90-minute interview Thursday in midtown Manhattan, where he spoke with a presidential historian on things like income inequality.......But the Obamas are set to earn an unprecedented post-presidency income, "
Yet another example of the right hating Successful people.... based on you guessed it political party .... But have no issues with how Trump made his money .... LOL
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:07 AM   #12
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Yet another example of the right hating Successful people.... based on you guessed it political party .... But have no issues with how Trump made his money .... LOL
are you including Elizabeth Warren and Newsweek in "the right"? LOL

bloomberg...https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...t-get-too-rich

oooh..the guardian...you like those british sources https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...racial-justice

"His mission was never racial or economic justice. It’s time we stop pretending it was"



"There's only so much you can eat," he exclaimed with a grin. "There's only so big a house you can have. There's only so many nice trips you can take." Obama

After exiting the White House last year, the former president and Michelle Obama were photographed vacationing in various exotic locales around the world, including French Polynesia and Italy, among other spots.

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Old 11-30-2018, 08:24 AM   #13
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are you including Elizabeth Warren and Newsweek in "the right"? LOL

bloomberg...https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...t-get-too-rich

oooh..the guardian...you like those british sources https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...racial-justice

"His mission was never racial or economic justice. It’s time we stop pretending it was"



"There's only so much you can eat," he exclaimed with a grin. "There's only so big a house you can have. There's only so many nice trips you can take." Obama

After exiting the White House last year, the former president and Michelle Obama were photographed vacationing in various exotic locales around the world, including French Polynesia and Italy, among other spots.


Thanks for making my point. From Bloomberg

Deutsche Bank AG, the sprawling German financial giant, is in trouble again. And, to a certain extent, Deutsche's troubles are going to be President Donald Trump's troubles.


But you don’t have an issue with that why is that?
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Old 11-30-2018, 09:31 AM   #14
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WDMSO, Pete has been on a rampage lately against income inequality, but here you are defending the obamas right to become
billionaires.

Can we establish some consistent rules in when it’s ok to be wealthy, and when it’s not? It seems to me, that it’s totally fine for liberals to be wealthy, but sinister when anyone else gets wealthy. Is that what the rule
is?
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Old 11-30-2018, 09:38 AM   #15
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WDMSO, Pete has been on a rampage lately against income inequality, but here you are defending the obamas right to become
billionaires.

Can we establish some consistent rules in when it’s ok to be wealthy, and when it’s not? It seems to me, that it’s totally fine for liberals to be wealthy, but sinister when anyone else gets wealthy. Is that what the rule
is?
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Seems like these wealthy liberals also give a ton to charity. Ever think they might be using their status to make money to help,people?
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Old 11-30-2018, 09:47 AM   #16
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Seems like these wealthy liberals also give a ton to charity. Ever think they might be using their status to make money to help,people?
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but wealthy conservatives don’t give money to charity? Is that what you’re saying?

my god you are precious...

In all seriousness, Spence are you saying that being uber wealthy is OK, as long as you didn’t cheat or
steal to accumulate it, and as long as you try and do some
good with it? Because i can get on board with that idea. But that’s NOT how today’s liberals view the wealthy. They say wealth is bad because if the concurrent existence of poverty. You sound like
you’re coming dangerously close to disagreeing with contemporary liberalism...
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Old 11-30-2018, 09:52 AM   #17
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So Spence, here’s an article
about the Koch Brothers’ charitable works. Should
we stop demonizing these guys , using your logic? Or does your logic ( that wealth is good if it’s used to help people) get applied selectively?

Boy are you backed into a corner now...

https://www.usnews.com/news/the-repo...fts-to-society
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Old 11-30-2018, 11:04 AM   #18
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WDMSO, Pete has been on a rampage lately against income inequality, but here you are defending the obamas right to become
billionaires.

Can we establish some consistent rules in when it’s ok to be wealthy, and when it’s not? It seems to me, that it’s totally fine for liberals to be wealthy, but sinister when anyone else gets wealthy. Is that what the rule
is?
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My rampage as you call it and one in which I have some very wealthy compatriots, has not been about Income inequality, but about Wealth inequality. They are different. And Wealth inequality has grown in the last 30 years, but like Global warming some choose not to believe in it.
Here's a simple example and why as an old Wealthy man told me once: "Never touch the principal"
Joe and Sam both have an income of $25,000 per year. But Joe has a net worth of $1 million, and Sam has a net worth of $0. Here we have no income inequality, and yet Joe flourishes, while Sam struggles to survive. This is a very simple illustration of why wealth is what really matters, rather than income.

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?

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Old 11-30-2018, 11:19 AM   #19
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My rampage as you call it and one in which I have some very wealthy compatriots, has not been about Income inequality, but about Wealth inequality. They are different. And Wealth inequality has grown in the last 30 years, but like Global warming some choose not to believe in it.
Here's a simple example and why as an old Wealthy man told me once: "Never touch the principal"
Joe and Sam both have an income of $25,000 per year. But Joe has a net worth of $1 million, and Sam has a net worth of $0. Here we have no income inequality, and yet Joe flourishes, while Sam struggles to survive. This is a very simple illustration of why wealth is what really matters, rather than income.
so when is it acceptable to you, for someone to accumulate massive wealth, thus contributing to wealth inequality? Are the Clintons evil
for doing so? Are the Obamas evil for doing so?

Wealth inequality wil
always increase as the economy grows, because wealthy people
have more to invest. Pete, would
you support a law, which tells
people that after their wealth surpasses a certain amount, that they are no longer allowed to work or to invest?

All of the bitching about wealth equality, is based on the demonstrably false
assumption, that one persons wealth causes someone else’s poverty, as if the economy is some
kind of see saw. One side goes up, the other must go down. It doesn’t work that way.
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Old 11-30-2018, 11:43 AM   #20
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so when is it acceptable to you, for someone to accumulate massive wealth, thus contributing to wealth inequality? Are the Clintons evil
for doing so? Are the Obamas evil for doing so?

Wealth inequality wil
always increase as the economy grows, because wealthy people
have more to invest. Pete, would
you support a law, which tells
people that after their wealth surpasses a certain amount, that they are no longer allowed to work or to invest?

All of the bitching about wealth equality, is based on the demonstrably false
assumption, that one persons wealth causes someone else’s poverty, as if the economy is some
kind of see saw. One side goes up, the other must go down. It doesn’t work that way.
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Jim, there are not just 2 people on the see saw.
There are people spread out all over it.
And in the last 30 years there are fewer on the wealthy side and the ones in the middle are moving ever closer to the poor side.
I guess I should just realize that middle america is lazy, ignorant and makes poor choices and that is why it is shrinking.

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?

Lets Go Darwin
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Old 11-30-2018, 11:59 AM   #21
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Jim, there are not just 2 people on the see saw.
There are people spread out all over it.
And in the last 30 years there are fewer on the wealthy side and the ones in the middle are moving ever closer to the poor side.
I guess I should just realize that middle america is lazy, ignorant and makes poor choices and that is why it is shrinking.
i know how many people are on the see saw. The fact that it’s more than two doesn’t matter.

Pete, consider this example. You have a wealthy guy with a billion dollars in a savings account, earning 10 million a year in interest. Let’s say he’s upset about wealth inequality, so he takes his billion dollars out of the bank, and puts it in his mattress. He no longer has any income, so his wealth will never increase. Thus, wealth inequality is less than it would
be, if he kept earning 10 million a year in interest.

He has helped to reduce wealth inequality. BUT HOW IS ANYONE BETTER OFF? WHO HAS HE HELPED?

Let me ask the same question from another angle. If he left his money in the bank and earned another ten million, wealth inequality has increased. BUT WHO HAS HE HURT? at a minimum, he pays federal income tax on that 10m, which helps the feds fund the programs that you and i both like.

If he earns more income, he isnt hurting anybody - nobody. If he forgoes the income, he isn’t helping anybody - nobody.

I can’t put it any simpler than that, if i put it that way to my dog, he would see that i’m right, and he’s not even smart as dogs go. The man isn’t taking that 10m away from anyone else. no one is better off if he chooses not to pursue the additional income.

Your argument is based on the idea that if he doesn’t accept that 10 million, it’s then available to give to the poor. Not true. Either he gets it, or no one does. His act if putting money in the bank isn’t taking wealth away from anyone. It’s creating wealth that won’t exist unless he acts to create it.

Why do you give a damn if he keeps his money in the bank and earns 10 million a year? Why does it concern you?

How do you not see this? How?
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Old 11-30-2018, 12:36 PM   #22
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"He" is not the problem, the fact that our current system has made it so that there is a greater and greater disparity is the problem. Extend the current trend and sooner or later our descendants will be serfs.
Here is how incomes have grown since 1982 by class
https://public.tableau.com/views/USI...play_count=yes

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?

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Old 11-30-2018, 01:27 PM   #23
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"He" is not the problem, the fact that our current system has made it so that there is a greater and greater disparity is the problem. Extend the current trend and sooner or later our descendants will be serfs.
Here is how incomes have grown since 1982 by class
https://public.tableau.com/views/USI...play_count=yes
Pete, stop switching and baiting. You keep going back and forth between income and wealth. After establishing that wealth was the important factor, you switch back here to income.

The chart you show here does not indicate that sooner or later, as you infer, our descendants will be serfs. All income levels grew, and most at substantial levels. That is not a trajectory heading toward serfdom. And we have safety nets for those who fall below the so-called poverty line. You consistently don't answer how income or wealth rates for the few growing at higher rates hurts those whose income grows at slower rates. You may be right, but if so, explain why.

Answer directly, in your own words, Jim's questions and examples instead of deflecting and switching.
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Old 11-30-2018, 01:37 PM   #24
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"He" is not the problem, the fact that our current system has made it so that there is a greater and greater disparity is the problem. Extend the current trend and sooner or later our descendants will be serfs.
Here is how incomes have grown since 1982 by class
https://public.tableau.com/views/USI...play_count=yes
"He" is not the problem".

Agreed!! His wealth is not causing poverty!!

"the fact that our current system has made it so that there is a greater and greater disparity is the problem"

Wrong. You, like most liberals, are focusing on the disparity. The disparity isn't the problem, the poverty BY ITSELF, is the problem.

Compare a poor person to someone who is barely middle class.
Compare the poor person to someone who is upper middle class.
Compare the poor person to Bill Gates.

Those 3 comparisons show 3 very different disparities. Is the plight of the poor person any different, amongst those 3 comparisons? No. Because the disparity doesn't matter, all that matters is that the person is poor.

You focus on "the disparity" because a pillar of liberalism is that poor people didn't cause their own poverty, rather they have been victimized - either by a rich white guy, or by "the system".

You admitted that my hypothetical guy isn't the problem. If he's not the problem, than the disparity between his wealth and the wealth of a poor person, also isn't the problem.

The disparity isn't the cause of anything. It's the symptom. It's symptomatic of a culture where far too many people can't, or won't, do what it takes to not be poor.

How many poor people have degrees in engineering, or nursing, or accounting, or physical therapy, or education? How many poor people work in a trade or manufacturing, and work as hard as they can?

Stay in school. Get at least a B- average. Don't sleep around and create babies you aren't ready for. Either go to college, or community college, and get a degree that will lead to a job (stay away from useless majors). If you can't go to college, learn a trade. Don't have children unless you are in a stable, committed marriage.

That right there, is a recipe for avoiding poverty. You can't tell me that less than 90% of the population is perfectly capable of following that formula. For people who can't (like the disabled), I am happy and proud to pay taxes to fund programs to make you comfortable.

But there's another group of poor people. People who could follow those rules, but chose not to. I feel much less of an obligation to deny my children things, in order to help people who refused to listen to their parents and their teachers.
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Old 11-30-2018, 02:53 PM   #25
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How do you fit a billion dollars in a mattress?
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Old 11-30-2018, 03:06 PM   #26
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How do you fit a billion dollars in a mattress?
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Very carefully
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Old 11-30-2018, 03:07 PM   #27
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How do you fit a billion dollars in a mattress?
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big denominations.

i answered your question, can you answer mine? Since you said that wealth isn’t a problem in the hands of liberals who are charitable, arebtoubalso OK with wealthbin the hands of conservatives who are charitable? Or do you only give that pass to liberals?
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Old 11-30-2018, 03:12 PM   #28
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I disagree
Look at the GDP per person in 1982 and 2017
Look at the supposed wealth of the forbes 400 in 1982 and 2017
A much greater percentage of wealth is going to the top 400 now than in 1982
Have they earned it or has our current system made it so they can accummulate it.
Is that a good thing for society as we know it?
How has home ownership changed in the middle class since 1982 and why?
What drove Amherst, Cerebrus, Front yard, Pretium, Tricon to buy up foreclosed homes?
They have spent billions buying up homes.
Your kids will be serfs.

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?

Lets Go Darwin
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Old 11-30-2018, 03:13 PM   #29
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Pete, no one is denying that wealth inequality is getting worse. you said, in my example, that the billionaire isn’t the problem.

You have shown that wealth inequality exists. You haven’t shown, whatbthe connection is between wealthy people and poor people. please focus on that.
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Old 11-30-2018, 03:19 PM   #30
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I disagree
Look at the GDP per person in 1982 and 2017
Look at the supposed wealth of the forbes 400 in 1982 and 2017
A much greater percentage of wealth is going to the top 400 now than in 1982
Have they earned it or has our current system made it so they can accummulate it.
Is that a good thing for society as we know it?
How has home ownership changed in the middle class since 1982 and why?
What drove Amherst, Cerebrus, Front yard, Pretium, Tricon to buy up foreclosed homes?
They have spent billions buying up homes.
Your kids will be serfs.
" much greater percentage of wealth is going to the top 400 now than in 1982
Have they earned it or has our current system made it so they can accummulate it."

How would YOU know whether or not they "earned it"? And what kind of "system" would prevent wealth inequality? I'll ask for the second time, do you support laws which tell wealthy people, that they can no longer work or invest? Would you support a law which caps wealth?

"Your kids will be serfs"

Probably not.

It's so easy to blame someone else for your lot in life. Chances are, you own it.

Pete, what did a wealthy person ever do, to prevent you from being wealthy?

I'm not wealthy. "The system" didn't prevent me from being wealthy, nor did any wealthy person. I could have gone to medical school, I could work until 9PM every night and get a couple of promotions. I choose not to. My choice, I own the choice, I own the consequences.
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