Ultra Violet Light

[Tagger]

If you can stand reading all this paint chemist jargin its a pretty good read .. Explains how everything interracts and some systems down fall . Seems main culprit assuming wood isn't moving too much underneath is UVL.. Even in the house. I know fish at night . I realize they are also selling a product . CPES .. A very good product in my opion .. why I bothered reading all this ,, very painful with my add . What do you paint sharpys think .. Salty ?

http://www.fiveyearclear.com/CCOW.html

[Woodbuster]

Thanks for posting that Tagger....interesting read.

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by Woodbuster

Thanks for posting that Tagger....interesting read.

Yes .. for me a big leap would be getting a moisture reader and learn how to use it .. Keep the wood from moving around and start from there. Serious ,,it was painful reading all that . Long post make my head hurt too .. anybody besides woodbuster and me get thru that ?

[smac]

Man, I have a headache.

[Slipknot]

I wish I hadn't flunked Chemistry

[massmike]

could you please repeat that ???

[Tagger]

Polyurethanes, traditional varnish and, for that matter, any clear finish will get more brittle with age. The reason old, flaking varnish curls outwards is that the outer surface becomes shorter than the inner surface due to the extra surface cross-linking from the ultraviolet light.
There are special chemicals designed to trap and neutralize these free radicals before they can do their damage. They are called antioxidants (something like vitamin-E, actually) and they work the same way your antioxidant vitamins work to keep you healthy.

Interestingly enough, conventional varnishes cure by a chemical reaction between the oil and the oxygen in the air. This is called oxidation, and the addition of antioxidants to a conventional varnish would poison the curing reaction. It is therefore impossible to add antioxidants to varnish and thus any varnish will lose its flexibility fairly rapidly with exposure to the sun. Some chemically cured coatings such as two-component polyurethanes are compatible with both ultraviolet absorbers and antioxidants, and those have the best maintenance of gloss and flexibility. Versions which are VOC-compliant are available for high-end applications. My company has been making such coatings for over fifteen years.

What about the free radicals,,, damm those bastadges .. 2 part component polyurethanes.. Hows about moisture cure ? floor products ,, my bud says his finish on his kitchens wood floor is 20 yrs. old ..looks pissa .. I guess what I'm saying is all this worrying about the rocks,,the water,,the salt .. Your plugs worst enemy is the Sun ... UVL just breaking it all down ..

[Slipknot]

Eddie, I clicked on the link to the product in that article and see that it is for Epifanes products, I just happen to recently use some of their high end varnish over a master bathroom solid cherry vanity countertop. First I coated it with a few coats of clear penetrating epoxy(system 3 clear coat epoxy) and then put 4 coats of varnish. It should hold up for 5 years like that. It was the designers idea to do a wood top in the bathroom Varnish is a pain in the butt in my dusty shop
Anyway, good to know I did it right.

I like the part where it talks about putting a coat over the CPES and having a better bond than if it were simply just on the wood itself.

[Tagger]

I like CPES .. not a very production minded product with cure time ..6-8 plugs it starts getting sticky . I hate this chem stuff . intimidated by all the jargin,, like lawyer talk .. soon the eyes glaze over.. Gotta get thru it though.. I'm going to read this stuff about 100 times ,,, would read Scotts 100 times too ,, but can't tell if he's pulling my leg .. Free the Radicals !!!!!!!

[thortum]

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

Ed I think the Hydrochlorothiazide interactions with the propylene oxide will cause Organometallic crosslinking... ................. ................................ cellular elastomers much better. Problem is then you have a stannous oxide by-product which is not good.

Best advise I can give is to use a premixed polyester polyol. Simple and effective.

I have to agree with you #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&. I seem to remember reading pretty much what you said in the Readers Digest about a year ago.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

Eddie, I clicked on the link to the product in that article and see that it is for Epifanes products, I just happen to recently use some of their high end varnish over a master bathroom solid cherry vanity countertop. First I coated it with a few coats of clear penetrating epoxy(system 3]

I used the Epifanes Wood Finish product over sanded raw teak and mahogany when i restored a 1967 Bristol ,and it held up for 5 years without any problems in salty conditions.

Gotta know the wood was dry though after 33 years. Did re-coat every year.

I liked it because you could re-coat within 72 hours without sanding.
Ended up using 18 coats on the original finish as it was so easy to apply without sanding and was the deepest luster i have seen.

No yellowing.

[Backbeach Jake]

You guys taking lucidity drugs?

[Finatic]

[Charleston]

Tagger, you make some very good observations; However, I don't think your plugs spend enough time in the sun for UVL to have an adverse effect.

When I was molding polyurethane (MDI) automotive facia we would slow down the cure to prevent the article from curling. We wanted the same rate of cure on the the core side as we had against the warmer cavity side in mold position. We added a retarder, it was known by it's buzz word as DMEA. It was called Dimethylethanolomine (I think??). While we achieved out intended goal we still had UVL problems. Adding antioxidants would cause other "off ratio" problems so we cured that problem using a better prime coat at paint.
If you ever see a dented urethane bumper that has paint failure and the substraight has turned yellow, that's the UVL working on the Polyurethane.


Those free radicals are funny little bastages and they are taken back by the color gold. Besure to put a cover on the contailers with your nose, belly and tail grommets in it. Those little buggers steal them at night and hide them like a squirrel hides his nuts

[Tagger]

We can understand how clear wood coatings exposed to the elements
can last for years by learning how and why such coatings fail. The “why” is three-fold: Water attacks the coating or the wood, ultraviolet light (which is an invisible part of both natural sunlight and interior fluorescent light) does the same, and the wood substrate moves .
__________________________________________________ __
Above is from the article .. paint scientist said it ... not me . There it is in a nut shell .. Reading that it tells me UVL attacks the surface inside the house too . It says flouresent light , so I assume shop type flouresent lights .. not light bulbs ,, even though alot of the new energy saving lights are flouresent .. Jake/Fred .. I have the same problem .. read a bunch of times like your pounding it in a concrete block ..

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by justplugit

I used the Epifanes Wood Finish

No yellowing.

Slip told me link was to that product .. What is it ?? 2 part urethane ? varnish ? They said no uvl protection can be added to varnish? yellowing seems to be associated with uvl protection .. I'm getting nuts again ..

[Pete F.]

Some more fun stuff to read
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/lpu.html

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Tagger

Slip told me link was to that product .. What is it ?? 2 part urethane ? varnish ? They said no uvl protection can be added to varnish? yellowing seems to be associated with uvl protection .. I'm getting nuts again ..

Eddie sounds like you've replaced your Creek Chub Encyclopedia ,to "Wood Finishes And How They Drive You Crazy" on your night stand.

The Epifanes Wood Finish is a varnish that contains Tung Oil and Phenolic Resins,whatever they are , and UV protectors.

They use it on boats in the tropics where regular varnish won't hold up under the tropical sun. Tung oil is a great sealer.
Gives a beautiful mirror finish but i have never tried it on plugs as i don't know how it would adhere to paint.
Of course $30 a Qt has nothing to do with it.

Have to start with a 10% solution, very thick, and go up to 50% then 100% so it's multiple coats, but no sanding within 72 hours.

If you try it , use the Gloss finish and crank up your paint box cause it stinks worse than U pol.

[Tagger]

Epifanes .. no good for plugs . too soft .. Steve Smith told me .. for real .. answer my pm dave..

HOME
Hello. I’m Steve Smith.
I’m a paint chemist

we been emailing back and forth ... really appreceate the guys honesty ...

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Tagger

Epifanes .... answer my pm dave

done