Sec.Defense Hagel warns ISIS is-

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/26/world/...led/index.html

Second American jihadi kia.... Are there dozens, hundreds? Interesting how the State Department notified the family....who had no idea????

The news said 1 other was killed in the same fight.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[justplugit]

There in lies the problem. Seems like nobody knows. The administration
has known about isisi for two years but had no strategy to deal with them
and according to Obama still has none.
How is it possible that someone has been asleep at the switch for 2 years ?
Same old kick the can down the road and HOPE nothing happens, but then
again the President did campaign on HOPE.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

How is it possible that someone has been asleep at the switch for 2 years ?

I think that's just the knee jerk in you talking

-spence

[Raven]

of course then again he might just be SCOTTISH

from the BLACK watch Clan

known to walk softly but carry a big stick

pffffffffffff.....T mmmng mng cough sputter

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

I think that's just the knee jerk in you talking

-spence

Spence, that's all you got.

[Raven]

what was really chilling today was hearing about the laptop of death

[spence]

Originally Posted by Raven

what was really chilling today was hearing about the laptop of death

Or it could be somewhat media hype. Certainly ISIS is serious but it's an issue to be dealt with, the world isn't ending.

Right now I'd be much more concerned with ebola spreading from west Africa than ISIS trying to weaponize biological contagions.

-spence

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by spence

Or it could be somewhat media hype. Certainly ISIS is serious but it's an issue to be dealt with, the world isn't ending.

Right now I'd be much more concerned with ebola spreading from west Africa than ISIS trying to weaponize biological contagions.

-spence

More Democratic smoke being blown up our collective ass.... "Look, look over here... this is a more serious problem we're focusing on in the public interest"

[nightfighter]

....

[spence]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

More Democratic smoke being blown up our collective ass.... "Look, look over here... this is a more serious problem we're focusing on in the public interest"

You guys been drinking from the same well?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Or it could be somewhat media hype. Certainly ISIS is serious but it's an issue to be dealt with, the world isn't ending.

Right now I'd be much more concerned with ebola spreading from west Africa than ISIS trying to weaponize biological contagions.

-spence

That's not what the secretary of defense said .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

More Democratic smoke being blown up our collective ass.... "Look, look over here... this is a more serious problem we're focusing on in the public interest"

Bingo NF, and now let's get back to the links and fund raising.
Now that's a plan.
This guy is in way over his head, at our expense.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Bingo NF, and now let's get back to the links and fund raising.
Now that's a plan.
This guy is in way over his head, at our expense.

He doesn't care. Some people use drugs to escape reality , he uses golf and fund raisers . He can feel relevant there. Sad and dangerous times for America
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Spence, that's all you got.

I think it's pretty silly to think the Administration has been ignoring the issue for 2 years. We've been trying to get the Iraqi government to take some responsibility in the matter. How are we supposed to take the blame for military acting French?

This stuff has been brewing for so long but you can't resist the opportunity to blame blame blame rather than think about what we can and should do. It's a very complex situation with no easy options.

The positive side to things being this dangerous is that the other Arab nations are finally waking up to the monsters they've helped create.

What about the summer suit? No outrage about the suit?

-spence

[nightfighter]

He missed his opportunity by not getting a coalition into Syria early, IMO. ISIS/ISIL became a force from within the rebel void of power. The US could have had an ally had they supported the early rebellion against Assad.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

This stuff has been brewing for so long but you can't resist the opportunity to blame blame blame rather than think about what we can and should do. It's a very complex situation with no easy options.



-spence

Can and should do, and no easy options?
Too late, there should have been strategies on the table
for contingencies as the troops were withdrawn.
The biggest blunder was not anticipating isis would come across the border. They should have been hit hard as they crossed, BEFORE they became entrenched.
But that would have taken an out front leader with forward planning rather than leading from behind and hoping it goes away.
Day late and a dollar short.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Bingo NF, and now let's get back to the links and fund raising.
Now that's a plan.
This guy is in way over his head, at our expense.

Was pissy when the Ospreys flew over my house last night. 5 Million dollars to generate 500K

The world IS falling apart and no small thanks to this fustercluck of an administration. No, it is not all Obama's fault, but part of it - the LEADERSHIP, is his responsibility. The lack of good Advisers and/or listening to good advice IS his responsbility.

Lets see the issues:

ME Peace
ISIL
UKRAINE
IRAN Nukes (not that we have heard much - is that effective policy? Or just not enough room above the fold?)
Iraq Collapsing
Race relations
Afghansitan Collapsing
Russia expansionism/ re-imperialism
China expansionism
Immigration (The only nation than can enforce borders but does not enforce?)
Ebola


Yes - things are being deftly managed. /sarc

Looks like he is becoming unhinged. I am really getting concerned that this guy is loosing it.

Originally Posted by spence

I think it's pretty silly to think the Administration has been ignoring the issue for 2 years. We've been trying to get the Iraqi government to take some responsibility in the matter. How are we supposed to take the blame for military acting French?

This stuff has been brewing for so long but you can't resist the opportunity to blame blame blame rather than think about what we can and should do. It's a very complex situation with no easy options.

The positive side to things being this dangerous is that the other Arab nations are finally waking up to the monsters they've helped create.

What about the summer suit? No outrage about the suit?

-spence

No, suit is a minor . I'm afraid the Administration has been screwing things up the last 2 years. Too much Hope & Ideology, not enough Realism

Originally Posted by nightfighter

He missed his opportunity by not getting a coalition into Syria early, IMO. ISIS/ISIL became a force from within the rebel void of power. The US could have had an ally had they supported the early rebellion against Assad.

No, the opportunity was missed when a Status Of Forces Agreement was not established/pursued with Iraq to leave a force of sufficient personnel in place to bolster the Iraqi Army to keep ISIL in Syria. The ability to lean on Maliki to NOT further peees on the dissatisfied.

Seatbelt light is on folks, expect much turbulence ahead. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

[spence]

You guys are armchair quarterbacking...

What would you be willing to give up for US troops to stay in Iraq? Bush had to give up some legal protections just to keep us there until 2011. What about contractors?

How do you build a coalition against Syria with steadfast Russian opposition? If the terrorist threat isn't imminent how do you get Arab support?

Don't we have to test Iraq and see if they can stand on their own? Isn't this nearly the same welfare dependency argument Conservatives are glued to at home?

Wouldn't a President Romney or McCain likely be saddled with the exact same constraints as Obama?

I think they would be.

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

You guys are armchair quarterbacking...

What would you be willing to give up for US troops to stay in Iraq? Bush had to give up some legal protections just to keep us there until 2011. What about contractors?

How do you build a coalition against Syria with steadfast Russian opposition? If the terrorist threat isn't imminent how do you get Arab support?

Don't we have to test Iraq and see if they can stand on their own? Isn't this nearly the same welfare dependency argument Conservatives are glued to at home?

Wouldn't a President Romney or McCain likely be saddled with the exact same constraints as Obama?

I think they would be.

-spence

You're right .... What time do we tee off ?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

I think it's pretty silly to think the Administration has been ignoring the issue for 2 years. We've been trying to get the Iraqi government to take some responsibility in the matter. How are we supposed to take the blame for military acting French?

The Iraqi government has taken responsibility . . . just not in a way that anyone else would approve. Oh, wait . . . the way they chose is pretty much the same way as most governments (administrations) choose. It has done what it thinks is the best way to stay in power and strengthen their ideological and religious position along with that of their political allies and cronies . . . rather than what is good for ALL of the people under their rule. And it has conveniently disregarded those good notions in their charter of government in order to achieve the ascendance of its ideology.

Surely, Obama was able to foresee and understand that when he chose to remove all troops from Iraq. Surely, he would have understood that the Iraqi government would choose to act in the very way that he has chosen to act in his administration. What kind of "responsibility" did he think the Iraqi government would take? A better one than his own?

And our military understood and told Obama that it was too soon to withdraw all troops. It warned him that there was a definite possibility that the Iraqi military would act French.

This stuff has been brewing for so long but you can't resist the opportunity to blame blame blame rather than think about what we can and should do. It's a very complex situation with no easy options.

Easy options? Is that what Presidents and Commanders in Chief are for? To deal with easy options? If so, who needs them? Life ain't easy, brother. Us common citizen grunts have to constantly deal with the not so easy. On the other hand, it would be so much more convenient, and the choices, as few as would even be needed, if we all would just get along and do what our government incessantly legislates that we must do. The complexity would disappear and we would achieve the progressive dream of the societal utopian bee hive.

The positive side to things being this dangerous is that the other Arab nations are finally waking up to the monsters they've helped create.

-spence

Finally? They have been aware of the monsters for a long time. Why do you think they usually resort to tyrannical regimes? To mollify the "good" Muslims? It has always been "this dangerous." And the only way to suppress the monsters has been the way of all tyrannies--force, coercion, suppression, pandering. It has been the "easy" option. Individual freedom and responsibility has not been inherent in their cultural and societal identities. A free people would have long ago revolted and taken "Responsibility" for self governance.

Oh, wait. That is a tired old train, as you would put it. They're beyond that nonsense. They are so much more ahead in their historical perspective than those who are stuck in some ancient time warp and its illusions of individual life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. They understand the need to meld into the collective and be herded by more intelligent experts and masterminds.

Surely, Obama would have understood this and not expected the Iraqi government to take some kind of responsibility other than that which they did. Wouldn't he have done the same? Hasn't he taken that responsibility to fundamentally transform America? Hasn't that transformation progressively been molded toward governance by a central power rather than local and individual responsibilities?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

You guys are armchair quarterbacking...

So . . . are you saying that's a bad thing? You do it a lot. Even in this thread and in this post to which I'm replying.

What would you be willing to give up for US troops to stay in Iraq? Bush had to give up some legal protections just to keep us there until 2011. What about contractors?

If you believe that the Arab nations are finally waking up to the monsters they've helped to create, wouldn't that make it an "easier" option for them to give us a wider latitude in helping them fight those monsters?

How do you build a coalition against Syria with steadfast Russian opposition? If the terrorist threat isn't imminent how do you get Arab support?

Perhaps the Arab's do not entirely desire a coalition with non-Arabs against terrorist threats, except those traditional coalitions such as being left to their own devices (tyranny, etc.) and a little economic and military support. But without ideological or utopian requests to become democracies, or to tolerate others, etc. Perhaps Arab rulers don't want to support that which lessens their power. Is that so hard for utopian masterminds to understand?

Don't we have to test Iraq and see if they can stand on their own? Isn't this nearly the same welfare dependency argument Conservatives are glued to at home?

Oh wait . . . so you agree with the "welfare dependency argument"? And you're glued to it like the Conservatives? Or do you just see it as a bunch of hooie, and are more inclined toward the progressive notion that one cannot stand on his own? That he can't build it on his own? This is confusing--you believe that Iraq can stand on its own, but on the other hand, maybe not? Which is it?

And no, it isn't nearly the same welfare dependency argument. The Federal government's constitutional duty, as conservatives see it, is to allow individuals or their local governments who represent their wishes to be independent, and to actually build things on their own, and to self govern. Its constitutional duty is to protect them from foreign threats, not to make foreign governments dependent on us. The Federal government's primary responsibility in Iraq is to do that which protects our homeland and its people from the foreign threats that are brewing there. If that takes seeing to it that the Iraqi government is able to fight our enemies, with whatever help it needs from us, that is what it should do, or if that government is not able, then to handle the matter ourselves with whatever might and power necessary.

And if it takes a more powerful military to do so, it should focus on that, not on micromanaging our personal lives.

Wouldn't a President Romney or McCain likely be saddled with the exact same constraints as Obama?

I think they would be.

-spence

There you go doing that armchair quarterbacking thing.

It is a bit mind-twisting how when Obama does or doesn't do something you think that those who oppose him would do or don't do the same thing. Did that apply to the things that Bush did or didn't do? So when Obama blames Bush for the problems he has "inherited," does that mean he's just blowing smoke up our butts because he would have been "likely saddled with the exact same constraints" as Bush?

[justplugit]

Direct hits, Detbuch.

Maybe the answer is for O to make another apology tour for all our transgressions. Then the extreme islamists will feel sorry for us, being we confessed for all the terrible things we have done as a country, mostly under Bush,give up their believe to kill all infidels, lay down their arms and peace will reign forever.

Oh that's right, that's how we became perceived as a second rate power and
our enemies began to rise up again.

[JohnR]

I think they may have done some of the same things, though maybe better, and would have done different things.

I don't think there would be as high a sense of panic, as high a lack of strategy. And even if there were a lack of strategy. THEY WOULDN'T SAY IT like that. That is amateur hour.

Announcing to our enemies we would leave AFG in 2014. Amateur hour. Hey guys, take all the potshots you can us while you wait us out - we're leaving on '14 and you can't do nothing about it. Amateur hour.

I think they WOULD have listened to their military advisers more and better. Obama's military advisers have been cowed into speaking the party line and to putting things like transgender troops to the top of the heap in importance* or spending significant millions or training and resource budgets to foster green technology (should come from other guv funding). This is not what the military is supposed to do yet under Obama it is.

Russia, China, Iran, Islamic non state actors / groups are the counterweights on the US and EU. All of those perceive the US and EU to be weak and indecisive. Most likely correctly. They will use the opportunity, NOW and in the next year, to leverage our incompetence and lack of spine and grab whatever gains they can.


* Off topic - I am mixed on having GLB serving only because it is taking from the primary missions of the military. So we are playing social engineering with our military rather than focusing on the basics: which is to defend the US, build coalitions, mutual defense, and commonality with partner nations, and when necessary break a lot of the other guy's sh1t. Transgender - a bridge too far.

[nightfighter]

Amateur hour is correct. Much of administration is filled with unproven personnel and headed up by someone who was no more than a sophomore senator when first elected. Past administrations would attract and pursue the captains of industry, who had actual experience to fill cabinets and senior level leadership positions. This group didn't even consult with a single US health insurance company before they hired a Canadian firm (why???) to build the Obamacare software program. Oh, and that Canadian firm had no experience in building software on such a scale....

[afterhours]

[QUOTE=JohnR;1050526]
I think they WOULD have listened to their military advisers more and better. Obama's military advisers have been cowed into speaking the party line and to putting things like transgender troops to the top of the heap in importance* or spending significant millions or training and resource budgets to foster green technology (should come from other guv funding). This is not what the military is supposed to do yet under Obama it is.

Russia, China, Iran, Islamic non state actors / groups are the counterweights on the US and EU. All of those perceive the US and EU to be weak and indecisive. Most likely correctly. They will use the opportunity, NOW and in the next year, to leverage our incompetence and lack of spine and grab whatever gains they can.


Bingo....we have Bingo!

[justplugit]

[QUOTE=JohnR;1050526] So we are playing social engineering with our military rather than focusing on the basics: which is to defend the US, build coalitions, mutual defense, and commonality with partner nations, and when necessary break a lot of the other guy's sh1t. QUOTE]

This, all at the same time reducing our military spending to pre 9/11 levels.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by justplugit

This, all at the same time reducing our military spending to pre 9/11 levels.

That is another thread altogether. There is really bad decision making going on by the defense contractors, the Pentagon, and Congress on both sides of the aisle.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by JohnR

That is another thread altogether. There is really bad decision making going on by the defense contractors, the Pentagon, and Congress on both sides of the aisle.

Geez JR, can't I even hijack my own thread.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Geez JR, can't I even hijack my own thread.

[Raven]

that is....unless it's your Birthday

i'll betcha he put allot of Pennies on the railroad tracks