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Old 02-25-2011, 07:33 AM   #1
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OH YIPPPEEEE

We need more of those shovel ready jobs and 700 million dollar bailouts.

looks like I'll be on the bike within the next month. When diesel hits $5 a gallon again soon it won't make $$ sense to go to work anymore.....it's not if now....it's WHEN.


By Catherine Rampell, Motoko Rich and David Streitfeld THE NEW YORK TIMES

The U.S. economy just can't catch a break.

Last year, as things started looking up, the European debt crisis flustered the fragile recovery. Now, under similar economic circumstances, comes the turmoil in the Middle East.

Energy prices have surged in recent days, as a result of the political violence in Libya that has disrupted oil production there. Prices are also climbing because of fears the unrest may continue to spread to other oil-producing countries.

If the recent rise in oil prices sticks, it will most likely slow a growth rate that is already too sluggish to produce many jobs in this country. Some economists are predicting that oil prices, just above $97 a barrel Thursday, could be sustained well above $100 a barrel, a benchmark.

Even if energy costs don't rise higher, lingering uncertainty over the stability of the Middle East could drag down growth, not just in the United States but around the world.

“We've gone beyond responding to the sort of brutal Technicolor of the crisis in Libya,” said Daniel H. Yergin, oil historian and chairman of IHS Cambridge Energy Research Associates. “There's also a strong element of fear of what's next, and what's next after next.”

Before the outbreak of violence in Libya, the Federal Reserve had raised its forecast for U.S. growth in 2011, and a stronger stock market had helped consumers be more confident about the future and more willing to spend.

But other sources of economic uncertainty besides oil prices have come into sharper focus in recent days. After a few false starts, housing prices have slid further. New-home sales dropped sharply in January, as did sales of big-ticket items like appliances, the government reported Thursday.

Although the initial panic from last year has faded, Europe's deep debt problems remain, creating another wild card for the global economy. Protests turned violent in Greece this week in response to new austerity measures.

Budget and debt problems at all levels of U.S. government also threaten to crimp the domestic recovery. Struggling state and local governments may dismiss more workers this year as many face their deepest shortfalls since the economic downturn began, and a congressional stalemate over the country's budget could even lead to a federal government shutdown.

“The irony is that we just barely got ourselves up and off the ground from the devastating financial crisis,” said Bernard Baumohl, chief global economist at the Economic Outlook Group, who had been optimistic about the country's prospects. “The recovery itself is less than two years in, and we haven't yet seen jobs make a decent comeback. Now we're being hit with this new, very ominous event, so the timing couldn't be worse.”

Most economists are not yet talking about the United States dipping back into recession, and it is too soon to tell how far the pro-democracy protests that have roiled Egypt, Bahrain and Libya will spread. For now, most analysts are not predicting that Iran and Saudi Arabia, repressive governments that also happen to be two of the world's biggest oil producers, will catch the revolutionary fever.

“But revolutions are notoriously difficult to forecast,” said Chris Lafakas, an economist at Moody's Analytics who focuses on energy.

Disruptions of oil supplies in Saudi Arabia and Iran in particular, he said, “would be catastrophic for prices. Saudi Arabia alone could cause maybe a 20 to 25 percent increase in oil prices overnight.”

In the past week, oil prices have risen more than 10 percent and even breached $100 a barrel. A sustained $10 increase in oil prices would shave about two-tenths of a percentage point off economic growth, according to Dean Maki, chief U.S. economist at Barclays Capital. The Federal Reserve had forecast last week that the United States economy would grow by 3.4 percent to 3.9 percent in 2011, up from 2.9 percent last year.

Higher oil prices restrain growth because they translate to higher fuel prices for consumers and businesses. Lafakas estimates that oil prices are on track to average $90 a barrel in 2011, from $80 in 2010, an increase that would offset nearly a quarter of the $120 billion payroll tax cut that Congress had intended to stimulate the economy this year.

“Revenue is down, costs are up, and you can't make any money,” said R. Jerol Kivett, the owner of Kivett's Inc., a company that manufactures pews and other church furniture in Clinton, N.C. “You're just trying to meet payroll and keep people working, hoping the economy will turn. But it just seems like setback after setback after setback.”

And the money that consumers and businesses spend on oil often does not stay within the U.S. economy. Nor do the expanded coffers in oil-producing countries raise demand for American exports, because they often bank it as reserves.

“The countries that are getting this bonus basically get an enormous benefit,” said Raghuram G. Rajan, an economics professor at the University of Chicago. “But if they can't spend it quickly, it doesn't add to aggregate demand.”

The rise in oil prices could also create a vicious cycle, as higher energy costs propel already rising food prices, which in turn can lead to more political unrest and more global uncertainty.

Even without the Middle East, the domestic economy has a number of weaknesses that have proved hard to overcome. The recession was provoked by housing and worsened by housing, and housing is likely to remain frail in parts of the country until the end of the decade.

After a couple of brief growth spurts, home prices have started declining again in earnest. This week, Yale economist Robert Shiller speculated about another drop as large as 25 percent. Anything close to that would push millions more households to the point where they owe more on their houses than the houses are worth, generating a lot of sour moods — which can depress consumer spending — more foreclosures and potential job losses.

Oil prices pose latest threat to US economy
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:01 PM   #2
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if you are smart you will buy a couple of electric vehicals from Government Motors and some solar panels and curly fries lightbulbs from Government Electric and maybe even a wind turbine too...then you'll be all set to prosper in the new economy ...oh and while you are at it you should apply for a waiver from Government Healthcare...just till they get all the bugs worked out
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:11 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Saltys View Post
Disruptions of oil supplies in Saudi Arabia and Iran in particular, he said, “would be catastrophic for prices.

Oil prices pose latest threat to US economy

Disruption or cut off either way we are in the soup.

We import %51 of our oil and should be 2 plus years ahead
in new drilling and refining except for the green activists.

Without oil the only thing that will be green is the weeds
growing over what industries we have left.

Dreaming and thinking about green energy down the road and the reality of
us needing oil now are two different things.
Pie in the sky and reality are always on the opposite ends of the spectrum.

" Choose Life "
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:16 PM   #4
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Disruption or cut off either way we are in the soup.

We import %51 of our oil and should be 2 plus years ahead
in new drilling and refining except for the green activists.

Without oil the only thing that will be green is the weeds
growing over what industries we have left.

Dreaming and thinking about green energy down the road and the reality of
us needing oil now are two different things.
Pie in the sky and reality are always on the opposite ends of the spectrum.
Bingo, what he said...

We could be paying 99 cents a gallon if we could get our collective heads out of our butts and tap into the natural respources we have been blessed with.

And yeah, choose life. Very cool sig...
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Old 02-26-2011, 06:38 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saltys

“Revenue is down, costs are up, and you can't make any money,” said R. Jerol Kivett, the owner of Kivett's Inc., a company that manufactures pews and other church furniture in Clinton, N.C. “You're just trying to meet payroll and keep people working, hoping the economy will turn. But it just seems like setback after setback after setback.”

[B
Anything close to that would push millions more households to the point where they owe more on their houses than the houses are worth, generating a lot of sour moods — which can depress consumer spending — more foreclosures and potential job losses.[/B]

Oil prices pose latest threat to US economy
you should just be proud that we have a president and first lady that never let anything get in the way of their lavish parties and good times

Feb 24, 9:41 PM (ET)
By NANCY BENAC

Official Obama Website - Barack Obama Needs Your Help to Change Washington. Sign Up Today!
www.BarackObama.com(sign up now to join in the destruction of America)

WASHINGTON (AP) - The White House reverberated like a long-ago basement sound studio in Detroit on Thursday as the likes of John Legend, Seal, Jamie Foxx, Nick Jonas and Sheryl Crowe channeled their inner Motown before Michelle and Barack Obama(our king and queen). Musical pioneers Smokey Robinson and Stevie Wonder joined in for the celebration of all things Motown

remember..."shared sacrafice"


btw: yet another downward revision after much trumpeting and fanfare

February 25, 2011
Fourth-quarter GDP revised down
Government says GDP increased at annual rate of 2.8 percent Home prices at post-bust lows in most big cities

(AP) WASHINGTON -
The Commerce Department reported Friday that economic growth increased at an annual rate of 2.8 percent in the final quarter of last year. That was down from the initial estimate of 3.2 percent.

One of the crucial questions is whether consumers can spend enough this year to help offset negative forces in the economy notably struggling state and local governments and a wobbly housing market that has depressed homes values.

Rising energy prices also pose a danger. If oil prices were to rise to $150 or more a barrel and then stay there for months, another recession is possible, economists said. Gasoline prices would near $5 a gallon. Consumers and businesses would spend much less, and some employers might slash jobs.(no way...really????)



I'd like to see the class envy/warfare game turned right around on these two in 2012...the RNC should run commercials with clips of Americans struggling, losing their homes and jobs, soaring utility and food prices, the various unrest here and abroad and alternate those with pics of the royal couple vacationing, stuffing their faces and enjoying lavish parties ad nauseam, jetting here and there separately in many cases at the taxpayers expense....then let them go out and claim to be the champions of the little people

Last edited by scottw; 02-26-2011 at 07:12 AM..
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Old 02-27-2011, 08:57 AM   #6
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If the Arabs can get together and set the amount of oil they tap every day, why can't the Us shutdown the speculative market, why is there even a speculative market anyway? I mean once the oil is out of the ground, don't the big oil companies already purchase it from the arabs, I mean there is no middle man right?

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Spot NAZI
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Old 02-27-2011, 01:15 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by TheSpecialist View Post
If the Arabs can get together and set the amount of oil they tap every day, why can't the Us shutdown the speculative market, why is there even a speculative market anyway? I mean once the oil is out of the ground, don't the big oil companies already purchase it from the arabs, I mean there is no middle man right?
The US can not effectively do anything against energy speculation currently because they lack effective means to regulate the market. The electronic trading of oil contracts are exempt from the CFTC's large trader reports which is the CFTC's main way of regulating the markets. This was done in 2000 at the request of Enron and other large energy traders. Despite Enron and all that has gone on since with Dodd-Frank the exemption remains on the books. In addition energy traders can trade on ICE in the UK where their trading is outside the scope of the CFTC.
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:26 PM   #8
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The US can not effectively do anything against energy speculation currently because they lack effective means to regulate the market. .
We can drill our own oil, and tell OPEC to take a hike...of course, it will take awhile for that to bear fruit..
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Old 02-28-2011, 07:06 PM   #9
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We can drill our own oil, and tell OPEC to take a hike...of course, it will take awhile for that to bear fruit..
Unless you have transparency in the markets they can be gamed by speculators no matter what the source of the oil is.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:14 AM   #10
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We can drill our own oil, and tell OPEC to take a hike...of course, it will take awhile for that to bear fruit..
And we do not have an infite supply of domestic, economically useful oil.

Natural gas, we have a lot of however....

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
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