Last nights speach

[buckman]

Good morning,

Well what did you think? He's the magic man right? He's going to save us and there is nothing we can do.

Petty bringing up Bush's little trillion dollar deficit to a huge round of cheers.

A pathetic group of children we have in there right now. You must be proud

[spence]

I thought it was pretty good overall. He certainly made the liberal argument quite well at the end.

I liked that he left the door on tort reform open (even if just a little) and stated in no uncertain terms the deficit spending wasn't an option. Even if this isn't very feasible, it will force the Dems to cut costs or face their own words come election time.

What I found much more interesting was the Republican response. Quite tame compared to the town hall chaos, and seemed to be more of a road map for how the GOP was ready to compromise.

If that's all indeed the case, this speech could go a long way towards a bill that actually makes some sense.

-spence

[spence]

This guy scored some major dip %$%$%$%$ points...

Lawmaker?s ?You lie? outburst denounced - Health care reform- msnbc.com

-spence

[justplugit]

Good speech, can't take that away from him. Starts with 2 sob stories
and ends with 1 playing on emotion. But you can't let emotions rule your thinking.

Not any details as to how this program is going to pay for itself without
adding to the deficit. His cost of 900 billion sounds oh so much better than a Trillion
which will end up being a lot more than a Trillion, guaranteed.
Sounds like pie in the sky.

If it's possible to find 900 billion in costs cuts why now and not before? As he said,
significant details need to be ironed out.

Two things i didn't like, a public option which will allow employers to
drop health care onto the public option, making for what will become a
large government program. Second the fact that you will be required
to have HC. Another Freedom taken away from the American people.

The funniest thing i saw was Pelosi's face and how fast she reached for
her copy of the speech when he said the plan would not include illegal aliens.

All in all pretty good speech with what appeared to leave a crack open
for negotiations.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

I thought it was pretty good overall. He certainly made the liberal argument quite well at the end.

I liked that he left the door on tort reform open (even if just a little) and stated in no uncertain terms the deficit spending wasn't an option. Even if this isn't very feasible, it will force the Dems to cut costs or face their own words come election time.

What I found much more interesting was the Republican response. Quite tame compared to the town hall chaos, and seemed to be more of a road map for how the GOP was ready to compromise.

If that's all indeed the case, this speech could go a long way towards a bill that actually makes some sense.

-spence

Man, one of the best spence-isms I've read in awhile!
- stated in no uncertain terms the deficit spending wasn't an option.
- Even if this isn't very feasible

You applaud him for saying something, then in the next line say its not feasible!

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Man, one of the best spence-isms I've read in awhile!
- stated in no uncertain terms the deficit spending wasn't an option.
- Even if this isn't very feasible

You applaud him for saying something, then in the next line say its not feasible!

It clearly was a calculated line, but ultimately it's a move towards the middle...and that's what counts.

-spence

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

If it's possible to find 900 billion in costs cuts why now and not before?

Bush was too busy increasing the size of the entitlement

I think you need some reforms that can offset the impact of just cutting costs. This, if done right, might gain efficiencies that can offset the cuts without hurting the level of service.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

This guy scored some major dip %$%$%$%$ points...

Lawmaker?s ?You lie? outburst denounced - Health care reform- msnbc.com

-spence

"This evening I let my emotions get the best of me when listening to the President's remarks regarding the coverage of illegal immigrants in the health care bill," Wilson said. "While I disagree with the President's statement, my comments were inappropriate and regrettable. I extend sincere apologies to the President for this lack of civility." WILSON

..this is an honest apology for a momentary lapse



"Because this has been ratcheting up and I helped contribute to ratcheting it up, I want to make clear that in my choice of words I unfortunately gave an impression that I was maligning the Cambridge Police Department or Sgt. Crowley specifically and I could have calibrated those words differently."

"My sense is you've got two good people in a circumstance in which neither of them were able to resolve it the way the wanted to resolve it," Obama added..

..this is a lying weasel sort-of not really an apology for a calculated "calibrated" remark...

saying "acted stupidly" gave the impression that he was maligning the Cambridge police?? no way....how could anyone have gotten the wrong impression?


Obama was lying...Crowley was not acting stupidly

it is frightfully disingenuous for Obama or anyone in leadership to suggest that they would not like to provide healthcare or any other government services to illegals or anyone else...of course they do...if they can't grant amnesty they'll be trying to figure out every conceiveable way to lump them on the pile of government dependents...it's who they are

it may have been inappropriate but it's about time someone stood up and called this clown a bleepin' liar....

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by scottw

"This evening I let my emotions get the best of me when listening to the President's remarks regarding the coverage of illegal immigrants in the health care bill," Wilson said. "While I disagree with the President's statement, my comments were inappropriate and regrettable. I extend sincere apologies to the President for this lack of civility." WILSON

..this is an honest apology for a momentary lapse

A lot of Republicans are pissed about this. But, I guess even the cheerleaders kept cheering when the Dolphins went 1-15; you've obviously been practicing your spirit fingers. If the situation was reversed and someone had done this a year ago, you'd be all over them.

it may have been inappropriate but it's about time someone stood up and called this clown a bleepin' liar....

Actions like that make him and the rest of his party look like a bunch of assclowns. This isn't the British Parliament. Actions like that aren't acceptable here.

[fishbones]

He's a great speaker who had most of the people in that room swooning over every word. I can't remember in my life another president who came across so well when reading prepared statements. He definitely has a knack for getting people excited and bringing them together, whether he can deliver on his promises or not.

One confusing part for me was saying that healthcare will not be funded by taxes, but then compares it to public colleges and universities. Public colleges and universites are funded by taxes. I guess it doesn't matter anyways. If he says it, it must be true.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Actions like that make him and the rest of his party look like a bunch of assclowns. This isn't the British Parliament. Actions like that aren't acceptable here.

I think he made himself look bad, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that he made his party look like a bunch of "assclowns". Especially since all of the Republicans I saw interviewed about it condemned what Wilson did.

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

A lot of Republicans are pissed about this. But, I guess even the cheerleaders kept cheering when the Dolphins went 1-15; you've obviously been practicing your spirit fingers. If the situation was reversed and someone had done this a year ago, you'd be all over them.



Actions like that make him and the rest of his party look like a bunch of assclowns. This isn't the British Parliament. Actions like that aren't acceptable here.

I thought he was out of line and it was totally innapropriate. His foolish outburst did however, bring about THE most notable moment of the night. Nancy Pelosi's face following the outburst was absolutely amazing. If she could have, she would have had Wilson killed on the spot. It's that type of raw emotion that tells so much about a person. You get a brief glimpse (unless you have DVR and watch it over and over again) at what any angry and treacherous louse she is. It was great theatre.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

A lot of Republicans are pissed about this. But, I guess even the cheerleaders kept cheering when the Dolphins went 1-15; you've obviously been practicing your spirit fingers. If the situation was reversed and someone had done this a year ago, you'd be all over them.



Actions like that make him and the rest of his party look like a bunch of assclowns. This isn't the British Parliament. Actions like that aren't acceptable here.

JD...I absolutely love your way with words..hey, how do you think Obama would actually handle speaking in the British Parliament?...without his teleprompter?

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

Bush was too busy increasing the size of the entitlement

I think you need some reforms that can offset the impact of just cutting costs. This, if done right, might gain efficiencies that can offset the cuts without hurting the level of service.

-spence

Obama's HC will be one of the biggest entitlement plans ever and at the same time will take away another of your Freedoms of Choice by requiring you to have it.
While i didn't agree with a lot of Bush's policies, especially the spending, your
It's getting old. I thought we were turning a new page? Where is the CHANGE in spending?

Obama has had 8 months to cut spending, and the only thing he's done is spend, spend, spend.
Where are the cuts??? Spending cuts are more important now,
with the economy the way it is, then ever before.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Obama's HC will be one of the biggest entitlement plans ever and at the same time will take away another of your Freedoms of Choice by requiring you to have it.

I plan to have healthcare for my family, so how is this limiting my freedom?

While i didn't agree with a lot of Bush's policies, especially the spending, your
It's getting old. I thought we were turning a new page? Where is the CHANGE in spending?

Did you really expect Obama to take office and start slashing the Federal budget?

He's talking cuts now as a measure to gain bi-partisan support.

-spence

[FishermanTim]

What about him being late for a "scheduled" televised press conference?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

A lot of Republicans are pissed about this. But, I guess even the cheerleaders kept cheering when the Dolphins went 1-15; you've obviously been practicing your spirit fingers. If the situation was reversed and someone had done this a year ago, you'd be all over them.



Actions like that make him and the rest of his party look like a bunch of assclowns. This isn't the British Parliament. Actions like that aren't acceptable here.

I can remember seeing Ted Kennedy asleep at Bush's speaches and the disrespect by Pelosi was there for anyone willing to look. You people have short memories.

While I hate to see the office direspected it's a little late for the left to be concerned with this. Joe was just calling it like it is.

900 billion $$ and no tax money or deficit spending.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

I plan to have healthcare for my family, so how is this limiting my freedom?

He's talking cuts now as a measure to gain bi-partisan support.

-spence

You may or may not have planned on HC for your family, but NOW you'll have no freedom of choice.

Yes Spence, I wasn't born yesterday, I'm well aware of his and other's political games.
Unfortunate, they weren't elected by the American people to play games.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

You may or may not have planned on HC for your family, but NOW you'll have no freedom of choice.

I don't think the actual law is going to limit my choices all that much. Considering the health insurance we have today, which costs in excess of 13K really sucks...I'm note one who's happy with their present coverage.

Yes Spence, I wasn't born yesterday, I'm well aware of his and other's political games.
Unfortunate, they weren't elected by the American people to play games.

It's all part of the negotiation process

-spence

[Swimmer]

Its just 40 million more people on a federal assistance (40 million more votes for the democrats) program by any other name is welfare. Do you actually believe for one minute once the program starts it would be stopped because taxes need to be raised to pay for it?

I remember some pretty nasty moments when Bush was speaking. I can't believe that anyone thinks he is being truthful.

I wonder how many special little money projects for the repub's who vote for this are attached to this bill.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

I remember some pretty nasty moments when Bush was speaking. I can't believe that anyone thinks he is being truthful.

It's funny how this is such a big deal, but when Bush was giving his State of the Union Address in 2005, it was perfectly fine for the Democrats (Pelosi included) to boo and heckle him. I wouldn't say that there's a double standard, but to me is seems like there might be 2 different standards depending on which party you support.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Public colleges and universites are funded by taxes. I guess it doesn't matter anyways. If he says it, it must be true.

Most public universities do not get much in the way of taxpayer support. URI only gets about 15% of it's funding from taxes - the rest it earns in tuition, patents derived from research, its endowment and contributions.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by fishbones

It's funny how this is such a big deal, but when Bush was giving his State of the Union Address in 2005, it was perfectly fine for the Democrats (Pelosi included) to boo and heckle him. I wouldn't say that there's a double standard, but to me is seems like there might be 2 different standards depending on which party you support.

heck·ling: To try to embarrass and annoy (someone speaking or performing in public) by questions, gibes, or objections; badger.

It's ok to boo, but it's a breach of decorum to heckle. Big difference, not a double standard. John McCain said what he did was inexcusable.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by Joe

Most public universities do not get much in the way of taxpayer support. URI only gets about 15% of it's funding from taxes - the rest it earns in tuition, patents derived from research, its endowment and contributions.

You're right about URI, Joe. But, 15% is still a lot of taxpayer money. And most community colleges and many other 4 year schools don't have the research income that a school like URI has. Schools like URI also get a lot of out of state tuition, while many state schools don't get much at all.

And shouldn't you be trying to fix your computer right now instead of reading drivel from people like me in political forums? I just got an email from you saying you have technical difficulties. Get that computer problem fixed and sell some fishing stuff.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by Joe

heck·ling: To try to embarrass and annoy (someone speaking or performing in public) by questions, gibes, or objections; badger.

It's ok to boo, but it's a breach of decorum to heckle. Big difference, not a double standard. John McCain said what he did was inexcusable.

Sure it was inexcusable, just as the Dems were in 2005. But back then Bush was president, so the Dems didn't have to apologize for their bad behavior. My point about a double standard is correct. Heckling, booing, mooning or being disruptive in any manner is inexcusable when the President is speaking.

[Joe]

My web host has to fix the problem - until then I can read the drivel.
I agree that you should not dis the pres but booing fits within the standards of behavior expected of a member of congress, heckling does not.
Shouting down somebody in a wheelchair at a town meeting is bad form also.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by fishbones

You're right about URI, Joe. But, 15% is still a lot of taxpayer money. And most community colleges and many other 4 year schools don't have the research income that a school like URI has. Schools like URI also get a lot of out of state tuition, while many state schools don't get much at all.

And shouldn't you be trying to fix your computer right now instead of reading drivel from people like me in political forums? I just got an email from you saying you have technical difficulties. Get that computer problem fixed and sell some fishing stuff.

Actually URI's 15% state funding is much lower than most other public 4year colleges of similar size and research status... it was 30-40% a couple of decades ago.... Everytime we write a grant 49% of the cost goes to overhead for the university, largely because of that... so to do 10K worth of science we have to write a grant for 19K.... seems silly, huh?

One of the smaller goals I was hoping to come out of Obama's term was changes to the funding of universities, colleges and comm. colleges (smaller goal than say Iraq, Afganastan and Health care; people aren't going to suddenly die on college campuses due to insurgent fire)

[Joe]

Unless they go to VA Tech....

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

This guy scored some major dip %$%$%$%$ points...

Lawmaker?s ?You lie? outburst denounced - Health care reform- msnbc.com

-spence

Hmmmm.......think the former Editor of the Harvard Law Review has figured out that there is nothing in this bill to prevent illegals from enrolling in the public option? Of course he has. He's a Liar.[/B] Wilson is a Patriot.

WASHINGTON, July 22 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- As estimates of the costs of President Obama's national health care overhaul soar into the trillions of dollars, the powerful House Ways & Means Committee rejected an amendment last Friday that would have limited the taxpayers' liability by ensuring that illegal aliens would not qualify for the bill's health care benefits. In a straight party line vote, the committee's 26 Democrats rejected an amendment
offered by Rep. Dean Heller (R-Nev.) to the America's Affordable Health Care Choices Act, H.R. 3200.

The Heller amendment would have required the federal government to use the database set up by the federal government for states to determine eligibility for welfare benefits to also ensure that illegal aliens do not enroll in the government-run public health insurance plan. It would also have barred illegal aliens from qualifying for tax credits to subsidize the purchase of private health insurance coverage.

The defeated Heller amendment would have required applicants for government provided or subsidized health care to demonstrate eligibility through the Income and Eligibility Verification System (IEVS) and the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) systems. Similarly, people seeking affordability credits from the government to subsidize the purchase of private insurance would also need to verify their eligibility through IEVS and SAVE.
These provisions would have effectively barred illegal aliens from receiving taxpayer funded health care benefits.

[buckman]

fact: Illegal aliens will covered, they have health care now and that won't change. Unless they become 20 million more dem. voters when they pass the McCain/Kennedy bill. In which case Obama didn't lie, there won't be any illegal aliens.