But there's no income inequality

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

come on. what made the
middle
class was the fact that american manufacturing was king. that made the middle class. we
manufactured everything.
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Several things that made the middle class are different today.
People were trained and promoted from within.
Before we were married my wife rented an apartment in someone’s Vermont home that was the Head of one of the big brokerage houses on the NYSE
He started in the mailroom and worked his way up.
My father started in aerospace out of HS and worked his way up.
These guys knew what the people below them do and they were not just occupants of a cubicle.
Corporations acted as important members of communities and felt responsible to them and their employees and also their shareholders.
With the prevalence of the MBA
Shareholders have become #1 and employees and communities are just a somewhat necessary evil.
There were also strong unions that stood up for their members and increased wages and benefits which then raised opportunities across the board.
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

It’s pretty funny you guys still cling to these falsehoods years later. Still losing sleep over Vince Foster?
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Only an idiot would deny it happened. Not the Vince Foster part,but the stealing from the white house( which they paid for when caught).
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Nebe

They probably heard it on infowars 😂😂😂😌😌😌
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I know you are not so stupid that you would deny it happened. Educate yourself before spouting off like a fool would.even your fake news stations reported the story. But you may have missed it with Trump et al.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Several things that made the middle class are different today.
People were trained and promoted from within.
Before we were married my wife rented an apartment in someone’s Vermont home that was the Head of one of the big brokerage houses on the NYSE
He started in the mailroom and worked his way up.
My father started in aerospace out of HS and worked his way up.
These guys knew what the people below them do and they were not just occupants of a cubicle.
Corporations acted as important members of communities and felt responsible to them and their employees and also their shareholders.
With the prevalence of the MBA
Shareholders have become #1 and employees and communities are just a somewhat necessary evil.
There were also strong unions that stood up for their members and increased wages and benefits which then raised opportunities across the board.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

“communities are a necessary evil”.

gimme a break. you spout off all these vague generalizations which can’t be proven nor disproven. i worked at aetna, travelers, and the hartford, all
werenterrific
corporate citizens.

you are correct when you say companies are leaner and
more efficient. the downside is reductions in employee perks. what you
conveniently
left out, is that the upside
is lower prices. do you never ship
for the best price? how do you suppose “best price” happens?
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[Rmarsh]

Originally Posted by scottw

yet the modern average family struggling to make ends meet still has big screen tvs, cable/statellite, several cell phones, multiple gas guzzling cars, kids in expensive club sports, eat out more that any 70's family, have you seen what the average American family spends on Christmas?....in the 70's NOBODY in my neighborhood owned a new car or went on vacation very often and it was a pretty average neighborhood...you wanna go back to the 70's...Eben just likes the clothes

Scott...I have to agree. Growing up poor in the 50's and 60's, my seven brothers and sisters and I were not poor but, our clothes were hand-me downs or from thrift shops, we never went out to eat anywhere, one car for my Dad to get to work, we ate mostly loaves of old bread that gets taken off the shelves. our shoes got new heels put on when they wore out. Most of all the kids I knew were skin and bone thin, overweight kids were a rarity. My parents would not accept welfare and felt the financial burden for raising us was their responsibility.


Knowing that I would never have anything unless I worked very hard for it, I worked and saved and at age 20 I bought and paid for an acre of land and the following year built a home on it for my bride and myself with no help from anyone. Glad I never got anything for free, I might have become a slacker.

Today I see so called poor people with all brand new clothes, sneakers, jewelry, cell phones, cars, getting their nails done, tatoos, buying booze, drugs, scratch tickets etc. and many, many of them are obese from all the junk food they eat.
I dont feel sorry for them...they feel entitled because look at all the rich people.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

yet the modern average family struggling to make ends meet still has big screen tvs, cable/statellite, several cell phones, multiple gas guzzling cars, kids in expensive club sports, eat out more that any 70's family, have you seen what the average American family spends on Christmas?....in the 70's NOBODY in my neighborhood owned a new car or went on vacation very often and it was a pretty average neighborhood...you wanna go back to the 70's...Eben just likes the clothes

This is also a good point, we spend WAY, WAY too much money on crap.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Rmarsh

.they feel entitled because look at all the rich people.

It is amazing to me, how obsessed the left is with rich people. Who cares?

The trick is wanting what you have, not having what you want. The jealousy and laziness and entitlement is astounding.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

“communities are a necessary evil”.

gimme a break. you spout off all these vague generalizations which can’t be proven nor disproven. i worked at aetna, travelers, and the hartford, all
werenterrific
corporate citizens.

you are correct when you say companies are leaner and
more efficient. the downside is reductions in employee perks. what you
conveniently
left out, is that the upside
is lower prices. do you never ship
for the best price? how do you suppose “best price” happens?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You think corporations on a whole are better citizens than they were 50 years ago based on several large insurance companies
50 years ago minimum wage was $1.60
Trucks cost less? $2318
Medical care costs less? Less than $500 per capita
Housing costs less? $26600 average
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

50 years ago minimum wage was $1.60


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this is shameful...how was anyone supposed to live on this?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

It is amazing to me, how obsessed the left is with rich people. Who cares?

The trick is wanting what you have, not having what you want. The jealousy and laziness and entitlement is astounding.

wow your towing the party line hard and like most Conservatives arguments are as simplistic and aimed at 1st grader understanding of the world using the usual talking points jealousy and laziness and entitlement


The top 26 billionaires own $1.4 trillion — as much as 3.8 billion other people

The richest 1 percent now owns more of the USA country’s wealth than at any time in the past 50 years...


But theres no issues ... everyone else is lazy and entitled Sure they are

It not that we hate rich people we dislike how they and their business model operate .. even with record profits they lock out workers over pay.. they game the system they strong arm cities and states to build stadiums promise employment at expense of the taxpayer close power plant and walk away leaving a blight for who else the Taxpayer to fit the bill... only the blind can't see rebirth of the business 1st mentality pushed by the right .

At one time worker and owner had a symbiotic relationship that was beneficial for both ..

Todays Business model the employer isn't thankful for their employees

they expect their employees to be thankful to them for all they have, and they dare not bite the hand that feed them or complain about benefits

NOT all companies FIT THIS PROFILE but more do than don't...

but jealousy and laziness and entitlement is a simpleton's argument Just like just build a wall ..

as is putting one heads in the sand saying everything is fine

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You think corporations on a whole are better citizens than they were 50 years ago based on several large insurance companies
50 years ago minimum wage was $1.60
Trucks cost less? $2318
Medical care costs less? Less than $500 per capita
Housing costs less? $26600 average
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"You think corporations on a whole are better citizens than they were 50 years ago "

No. But I think prices for most consumer goods are far cheaper, relative to average income. Corporations are leaner and more efficient, which means more stingy compensation for employees, but lower prices for consumers.

Pete, if I opened a pizzeria in your town, and I paid my bus boys and cashiers $15 an hour with benefits, a large pie would cost $40. Would you eat there? No.

People want low prices, and then complain when companies do what they have to do, to deliver low prices. You seem like you want low prices and generous employee compensation. I'd like to have a thick head of curly blond hair and washboard abs. But this is the real world, not a fantasy world. You can't have it both ways. Do you understand that prices are a function of costs?

There are a million ways to be comfortably middle class, you just need to be thoughtful, and avoid stupid decisions. Helps to have good parents.

Most goods cost less, relative to average income, not necessarily in absolute dollars. But not big items like housing and healthcare and college.

"wow your towing the party line hard "

Not even close. I said in another thread that we should increase capital gains and dividend tax rates. Pete, I disagree ALL THE TIME with conservatism. What are the biggest items, on which you disagree with liberals? Because I never see you do it.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

It not that we hate rich people we dislike how they and their business model operate ..

At one time worker and owner had a symbiotic relationship that was beneficial for both ..

Todays Business model the employer isn't thankful for their employees

they expect their employees to be thankful to them for all they have, and they dare not bite the hand that feed them or complain about benefits

Wayne, how many companies and business owners have you worked for?

[Rmarsh]

Originally Posted by scottw

this is shameful...how was anyone supposed to live on this?

A mentor of mine, older guy who I got advice from, once told me,
"Bob, if you ever want to get ahead, 40 hours a week wont cut it"

So I got two minimum wage jobs and doubled my take home pay.
I was also very careful not to spend a penny on anything non essential. I started at minimum wage but moved up through the ranks by applying myself and committing to learn the carpentry trade.

In my view forty hours a week isn't all that much. We sleep more hours away in a week than that. Hard work pays more than just a wage, it builds character and self reliance......is that wrong?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

wow your towing the party line hard and like most Conservatives arguments are as simplistic and aimed at 1st grader understanding of the world using the usual talking points jealousy and laziness and entitlement


The top 26 billionaires own $1.4 trillion — as much as 3.8 billion other people

The richest 1 percent now owns more of the USA country’s wealth than at any time in the past 50 years...


But theres no issues ... everyone else is lazy and entitled Sure they are

It not that we hate rich people we dislike how they and their business model operate .. even with record profits they lock out workers over pay.. they game the system they strong arm cities and states to build stadiums promise employment at expense of the taxpayer close power plant and walk away leaving a blight for who else the Taxpayer to fit the bill... only the blind can't see rebirth of the business 1st mentality pushed by the right .

At one time worker and owner had a symbiotic relationship that was beneficial for both ..

Todays Business model the employer isn't thankful for their employees

they expect their employees to be thankful to them for all they have, and they dare not bite the hand that feed them or complain about benefits

NOT all companies FIT THIS PROFILE but more do than don't...

but jealousy and laziness and entitlement is a simpleton's argument Just like just build a wall ..

as is putting one heads in the sand saying everything is fine

i don’t think you hate rich people, i think i you couldn’t be more wrong about the impact they have on everyone else. the math just doesn’t back it up. they aren’t worth obsessing over.
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[Sea Dangles]

The middle class nowadays has more than they ever had. Phones,cars,trips. Who goes without? Television and video games....cable tv. For crying out loud we have people on this board with beautiful boats and plenty of money for gas.....all while working unskilled jobs. Am I right about this Wayne?
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

The middle class nowadays has more than they ever had. Phones,cars,trips. Who goes without? Television and video games....cable tv. For crying out loud we have people on this board with beautiful boats and plenty of money for gas.....all while working unskilled jobs. Am I right about this Wayne?
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I am fortunate to already be in the middle class and took me 30 plus years to get here ... these thoughts I present have nothing to do with me and will have little effect on your or My future

they are aimed at the next generation AKA my children and theirs not based on some arrogant suggestion that people are lazy and entitled is the reason the middle class has shrunk.. its not that simple

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i don’t think you hate rich people, i think i you couldn’t be more wrong about the impact they have on everyone else. the math just doesn’t back it up. they aren’t worth obsessing over.
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what's the tipping point ? when do we pay attention to the trend ?

will we pay attention when we become an oligarchy or Plutocracy?

I am sure the British never thought British Empire would end these events are incremental and are happening some are visible and some are not but the trajectory doesn't look good ... like climate change if its not now. it's just a matter of when it's going to tip the scale

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by wdmso

I am fortunate to already be in the middle class and took me 30 plus years to get here ... these thoughts I present have nothing to do with me and will have little effect on your or My future

they are aimed at the next generation AKA my children and theirs not based on some arrogant suggestion that people are lazy and entitled is the reason the middle class has shrunk.. its not that simple

Our children’s future will become what they make of it. Hard work will always yield a positive result. I have seen it time and again. That alone is the recipe. No magic potion or political finger pointing will ever change that. You can characterize as you wish but the recipe will remain the same. There are countless 1% who struggled with poverty and overcame adversity to become wealthy. This country is known as the land of opportunity for a reason. That is why we need to build walls.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Only an idiot would deny it happened. Not the Vince Foster part,but the stealing from the white house( which they paid for when caught).
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Yea, such brilliant thieves they documented everything they took as a matter of public record. You do know they’ve killed like 28 people right?
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

This country is known as the land of opportunity for a reason. That is why we need to build walls.
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Very Reaganesque of you. WTF?
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

Yea, such brilliant thieves they documented everything they took as a matter of public record. You do know they’ve killed like 28 people right?
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You do know they were forced to pay for all the liberated items,right? Jeff, you want to deflect. First Vince Foster and now the killing of people. All to deflect from the fact the Clintons took items that did not belong to them. Rest easy,this just makes them untrustworthy,not murderers. They did,however return $28000 worth of the goods to the state department upon getting caught. Look it up. Google is your friend here.
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Several things that made the middle class are different today.
People were trained and promoted from within.
Before we were married my wife rented an apartment in someone’s Vermont home that was the Head of one of the big brokerage houses on the NYSE
He started in the mailroom and worked his way up.
My father started in aerospace out of HS and worked his way up.
These guys knew what the people below them do and they were not just occupants of a cubicle.
Corporations acted as important members of communities and felt responsible to them and their employees and also their shareholders.
With the prevalence of the MBA
Shareholders have become #1 and employees and communities are just a somewhat necessary evil.
There were also strong unions that stood up for their members and increased wages and benefits which then raised opportunities across the board.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Opportunity is still there. My friend is CEO of a fortune 100 company. His CFO is a man who came from India as child with $300 in his pocket. Smart guy,hard worker. Just another success story in the USA.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Opportunity is still there. My friend is CEO of a fortune 100 company. His CFO is a man who came from India as child with $300 in his pocket. Smart guy,hard worker. Just another success story in the USA.
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What’s your point
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Our children’s future will become what they make of it. Hard work will always yield a positive result. I have seen it time and again. That alone is the recipe. No magic potion or political finger pointing will ever change that. You can characterize as you wish but the recipe will remain the same. There are countless 1% who struggled with poverty and overcame adversity to become wealthy. This country is known as the land of opportunity for a reason. That is why we need to build walls.
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dangles, you are introducing the concept of responsibility. one of the pillars of current liberalism, is that no one is responsible for their lot in life. everything is someone else’s fault, preferably a white guy in a suit.

of course you are correct. i saw a shudybthat said that ifnpeople follow a few simple rules, ( get at least an associates degree, don’t have kids until
you are married), you have like a 7% chance of being poor. middle class is a bit harder to achieve than it was, with the loss of
manufacturing, but it’s still low hanging fruit.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

You do know they were forced to pay for all the liberated items,right? Jeff, you want to deflect. First Vince Foster and now the killing of people. All to deflect from the fact the Clintons took items that did not belong to them. Rest easy,this just makes them untrustworthy,not murderers. They did,however return $28000 worth of the goods to the state department upon getting caught. Look it up. Google is your friend here.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

he acts like they volunteered! i can see bill now, “hey, no one told
me we weren’t supposed to take the copper wiring out of the walls. and i need that ashtray i swiped, because they told me I can’t use young girls’ vaginas anymore.”.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Opportunity is still there. My friend is CEO of a fortune 100 company. His CFO is a man who came from India as child with $300 in his pocket. Smart guy,hard worker. Just another success story in the USA.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

my favorite story...the convenience store near my house is owned by a family from Liberia. mom, dad, two kids. i’d go in on sundays to fill
my tank
and get the sunday paper. the whole family was always in there, kids either working or studying. both kids got free rides to college. they came here with nothing, and their daughter is a doctor. they worked like dogs, and saw education as a gift from
god. he used to tell me, he couldn’t understand why liberals talk about what a crappy racist country this is. every town in the country has a family like that. i think he still works 6 days a week.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What’s your point
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He's showing the exception and selling it as the Rule its the conservative mantra everyone is one step from being a millionaire

[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

You do know they were forced to pay for all the liberated items,right? Jeff, you want to deflect. First Vince Foster and now the killing of people. All to deflect from the fact the Clintons took items that did not belong to them. Rest easy,this just makes them untrustworthy,not murderers. They did,however return $28000 worth of the goods to the state department upon getting caught. Look it up. Google is your friend here.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

They took what they thought was gifted to them, made an accurate public accounting and reconciled things later when items were clarified. That’s not theft. Use your own google, all the fact check sites label your claim as mostly false.

You and a Jim seem to think Hillary was stuffing silverware down her pants suit.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

He's showing the exception and selling it as the Rule

the exception, is the willingness to work for what you want. the general rule, is that we are limited by our abilities and our willingness to work. not by the system. sure, some people
do all the right things and have bad luck. that’s not the rule. take a stroll through the projects of hartford, you won’t see a lot of two parent households doing homework together. that breeds poverty. it’s mostly avoidable.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Our children’s future will become what they make of it. Hard work will always yield a positive result. I have seen it time and again. That alone is the recipe. No magic potion or political finger pointing will ever change that. You can characterize as you wish but the recipe will remain the same. There are countless 1% who struggled with poverty and overcame adversity to become wealthy. This country is known as the land of opportunity for a reason. That is why we need to build walls.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Why do people like you alway's think people are looking for free stuff or the easy way out? your brainwashed that hard work alone will always yield a positive result again a mantra projected by the right , 95 % of americans aren't looking to be rich they just what a fair shake a living wage to compensate them for their Hard work
the vast majority of Americans have under $1,000 saved and half of all Americans have nothing at all put away for retirement.

"Nearly half of families have no retirement account savings at all," the Economic Policy Institute (EPI) reported, even in savings vehicles such as IRAs and 401(k)s.

in your mind and others its because of big screen Tvs (that cost under 200 bucks) and Smartphones again simple views of a much bigger issue