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Old 04-03-2020, 08:34 AM   #61
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I see MRI1+2 are playing dingdong again

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

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Old 04-03-2020, 10:26 AM   #62
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This is what government looks like. Today during a crisis both federal and state



And Republicans think less Government is better?

Looking at this crisis I can only see that idea as crazier, than it was before this and it was crazy then
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Old 04-03-2020, 11:24 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
This is what government looks like. Today during a crisis both federal and state



And Republicans think less Government is better?

Looking at this crisis I can only see that idea as crazier, than it was before this and it was crazy then
Non sequitur. The total scope of government is a different concern than the amount of power within constitutionally allowed government.

China, for instance, under CCP rule has unlimited scope of government power. China does not suffer from less government. It's government is in total control of the entire society. Does China, with more government, "look like," as you put it, what you would want today.
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Old 04-03-2020, 12:22 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
This is what government looks like. Today during a crisis both federal and state



And Republicans think less Government is better?

Looking at this crisis I can only see that idea as crazier, than it was before this and it was crazy then
yes, this is why the liberal
places like CT and IL are in such fine shape.

conservatives want less government, in areas where people
can do just fine by themselves. no one is saying we should do away with government altogether? can you make a single post in his forum that’s not ridiculous?
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Old 04-03-2020, 12:39 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
yes, this is why the liberal
places like CT and IL are in such fine shape.

conservatives want less government, in areas where people
can do just fine by themselves. no one is saying we should do away with government altogether? can you make a single post in his forum that’s not ridiculous?
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No kidding their not saying no government their saying only the government they like and want

So theses Republican governors who have no restrictions in place, I should assume they can do fine by themselves, and the government shouldn't help them if this goes sideways on them ..
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Old 04-03-2020, 12:41 PM   #66
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God spoke to him (the owner). That was the report as to why he stayed open originally.

Looks like they are closing now.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyl...navirus-orders
is that really what he said?
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Old 04-03-2020, 12:45 PM   #67
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No kidding their not saying no government their saying only the government they like and want

So theses Republican governors who have no restrictions in place, I should assume they can do fine by themselves, and the government shouldn't help them if this goes sideways on them ..
the republican governors with no restrictions, in my opinion, are being reckless. very reckless.

but conservatives are not opposed to governments at all
levels taking steps to be prepared for these kinds of emergencies. even diehard libertarians don’t oppose this.

you need to learn a bit more about the basics. i don’t have any idea where you get them information you use to form your opinions if conservatives, but you’re being misinformed. instead of letting msnbc tell you what conservatives think, why not ask a conservative? you are comically, very misinformed.
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Old 04-03-2020, 12:48 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
yes, this is why the liberal
places like CT and IL are in such fine shape.
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I would take Connecticut in the heartbeat over the majority of those red States. After all look at the incompetent President they helped elect.
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Old 04-03-2020, 12:53 PM   #69
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Non sequitur. The total scope of government is a different concern than the amount of power within constitutionally allowed government.

China, for instance, under CCP rule has unlimited scope of government power. China does not suffer from less government. It's government is in total control of the entire society. Does China, with more government, "look like," as you put it, what you would want today.
Typical response jumping right to communism..

How would less government improve what we are seeing

Not saying more government is the right answer.

But for Trump to suggest the federal government is just a back up in this situation

He wants to be a leader only when winning. When things go south no so much


That navy Captain just fired is the example of a True leader , Placing the care and treatment of his men , Above his own self intrest

Trump is unable to do such a thing it's not his nature
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Old 04-03-2020, 12:53 PM   #70
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I would take Connecticut in the heartbeat over the majority of those red States
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who cares?

CT, one of the most beautiful states in the nation, is one of the few states that’s losing population. CT has so much going for
it, people should be fighting to get here. But they’re fleeing.

one persons opinion doesn’t make that wrong.

Our debt is also tens of thousands of dollars for every single
human being in the state. Did conservative economic
principles generate that massive debt, or liberal economic principles.


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Old 04-03-2020, 01:01 PM   #71
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who cares?

CT, one of the most beautiful states in the nation, is one of the few states that’s losing population. CT has so much going for
it, people should be fighting to get here. But they’re fleeing.

one persons opinion doesn’t make that wrong.

Our debt is also tens of thousands of dollars for every single
human being in the state. Did conservative economic
principles generate that massive debt, or liberal economic principles.


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Then leave.

As we have discussed dozens of times it is bc of the superior services provided in this liberal state. there are many facts that indicate people are better off in liberals states but you continue to harp on taxes while ignoring the better education and higher pay you get here.
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Old 04-03-2020, 01:03 PM   #72
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the republican governors with no restrictions, in my opinion, are being reckless. very reckless.

but conservatives are not opposed to governments at all
levels taking steps to be prepared for these kinds of emergencies. even diehard libertarians don’t oppose this.

you need to learn a bit more about the basics. i don’t have any idea where you get them information you use to form your opinions if conservatives, but you’re being misinformed. instead of letting msnbc tell you what conservatives think, why not ask a conservative? you are comically, very misinformed.
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Jim its happened in real time look at those Governors,,,, what other reason have they given ?.. why they have chosen to what their doing

Alabama Governor Kay Ivey, who just last week rejected any statewide action because “Y’all, we are not California. We’re not New York. We aren’t even Louisiana,


Thought this was spot on with some of these Governors so concerned with not upsetting Trumps base


I’d be happy to stand with the president,” the governor would quip, “if he’d just stand in the same place.”
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Old 04-03-2020, 01:04 PM   #73
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Another indication how sleazy this admin. is. Read the full article

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...8Bx?li=BBnb7Kz

The Trump administration on Friday changed its description of the Strategic National Stockpile on a government website after journalists noted that it contradicted a claim Jared Kushner had made about the program.

Kushner on Thursday evening offered a novel argument about the national stockpile. He said some states still had stockpiles that they hadn’t been employing for the coronavirus outbreak and that localities should go to them first. And then he suggested that the national stockpile wasn’t even meant for them.

“And the notion of the federal stockpile was it’s supposed to be our stockpile,” Kushner said. “It’s not supposed to be states’ stockpiles that they then use.”

As reporters quickly noted, that didn’t match with how the Department of Health and Human Services was describing the program. On its website, it said, “Strategic National Stockpile is the nation’s largest supply of life-saving pharmaceuticals and medical supplies for use in a public health emergency severe enough to cause local supplies to run out.” It continued to say, "When state, local, tribal, and territorial responders request federal assistance to support their response efforts, the stockpile ensures that the right medicines and supplies get to those who need them most during an emergency.”

“The Strategic National Stockpile’s role is to supplement state and local supplies during public health emergencies,” it now says. “Many states have products stockpiled, as well. The supplies, medicines, and devices for life-saving care contained in the stockpile can be used as a short-term stopgap buffer when the immediate supply of adequate amounts of these materials may not be immediately available.”
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Old 04-03-2020, 01:14 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
Jim its happened in real time look at those Governors,,,, what other reason have they given ?.. why they have chosen to what their doing

Alabama Governor Kay Ivey, who just last week rejected any statewide action because “Y’all, we are not California. We’re not New York. We aren’t even Louisiana,


Thought this was spot on with some of these Governors so concerned with not upsetting Trumps base


I’d be happy to stand with the president,” the governor would quip, “if he’d just stand in the same place.”
"
Jim its happened in real time look at those Governors,,,, what other reason have they given ?.. why they have chosen to what their doing"

They've said very clearly why they haven't imposed severe restrictions, and it's not because conservatives want less government. It's because in those states, governors feel the counts aren't high enough to justify crushing the state economy. It's not because they're conservative, it's because they don't feel thigs are that bad yet. I think its a dangerous gamble, but if the counts remain low in those states, the small business owners and employees will be very glad the governors did what they did. There are scientists who feel that the measures taken in most states are going too far. I don't happen to agree with them, but there are scientists who are still saying that. There's a chance that when all is said and done, we'll conclude that we didn't need to shut down the economy. In fact I hope that's what happens, because that would mean the virus wasn't catastrophic. Does that make sense?

"“Y’all, we are not California. We’re not New York. We aren’t even Louisiana"

and he's talking about not having as many sick people. It's math, not politics.
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Old 04-03-2020, 01:24 PM   #75
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Then leave.

As we have discussed dozens of times it is bc of the superior services provided in this liberal state. there are many facts that indicate people are better off in liberals states but you continue to harp on taxes while ignoring the better education and higher pay you get here.
You don't get it. Rather, you won't admit you get it, because that would dispute your "point"...it doesn't matter if I stay or go, of if you like it here or not. What matters is that a beautiful and convenient state, is one of the nation's leaders in population loss over the last 10 years. There is only 1 explanation for why this is happening in such a beautiful place with so much opportunity. You just can't say it out loud, like most liberals (note I didn't say all) you cannot process even the most obvious empirical data unless it serves your agenda.

When clinging to your beliefs requires you to deny facts that are staring you in the face, maybe ask why you believe what you believe. I was a registered democrat when I graduated from college, because it made a lot of sense to me to eliminate poverty by just taking a tiny bit more from billionaires who wouldn't miss it. Who could oppose something so obvious? but the thing is, it doesn't work. It just doesn't work. It has never worked, not once. So I stopped believing that was the answer.

"bc of the superior services provided in this liberal state.'

What planet do you live on, exactly? Ask just about anyone who works in state social services how their budget has changed in the last 10 years here in CT. Budgets are cut across the board, services offered to our needy neighbors being cut across the board. State funding to universities cut massively across the board.

You can't help anyone, when you're broke.

"there are many facts that indicate people are better off in liberals states "

Then why are successful people leaving (in general) liberal states, and moving to (in general) conservative states? Because they're too stupid to see that CT is better than the suburbs of Charlotte?
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Old 04-03-2020, 01:44 PM   #76
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You don't get it and constantly ignore the facts that other than taxes (cost of living) things are much better in the liberal states than the conservative states.

The colder states lose pop. when people are retiring and moving south to the warmer climates.
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Old 04-03-2020, 02:50 PM   #77
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Clearly the greatest president of our generation
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Old 04-03-2020, 03:06 PM   #78
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You don't get it and constantly ignore the facts that other than taxes (cost of living) things are much better in the liberal states than the conservative states.

The colder states lose pop. when people are retiring and moving south to the warmer climates.
"facts that other than taxes (cost of living) things are much better in the liberal states than the conservative states"

Sure, drugs, crime, poverty, fatherlessness, suicide, none f those thigs exist in liberal places.

"The colder states lose pop. when people are retiring and moving south to the warmer climates"


If that were it, NH would also be losing population. Yet in the nice suburbs, they cannot build $600,000 houses fast enough. Also doesn't explain the population exodus from CA. What does explain it, is that people are realizing that it's not necessary to overpay for a good quality of life.
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Old 04-03-2020, 04:08 PM   #79
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Typical response jumping right to communism..

I didn't jump to communism. I pointed out that more government does not equate to better solutions.

How would less government improve what we are seeing

The amount of government is not the answer.

Not saying more government is the right answer.

I don't know what you're saying here.

But for Trump to suggest the federal government is just a back up in this situation

He has done more than "just" back up. But back up is a big portion of what the federal government is supposed to do in cases of pandemic. See post 6 in the Welcome to seat of the pants government thread.


He wants to be a leader only when winning. When things go south no so much

Yeah, right.

That navy Captain just fired is the example of a True leader , Placing the care and treatment of his men , Above his own self intrest

Trump is unable to do such a thing it's not his nature
Good to know that we have such expert insights as yours on this forum. But I do prefer, personally, that the President's personal interests don't get in the way of executing the duties as prescribed in Article II.
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Old 04-03-2020, 05:01 PM   #80
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Job #1 is ratings

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
Mar 29
“President Trump is a ratings hit. Since reviving the daily White House briefing Mr. Trump and his coronavirus updates have attracted an average audience of 8.5 million on cable news, roughly the viewership of the season finale of ‘The Bachelor.’ Numbers are continuing to rise...

Friend of Murderers

Just spoke to my friend MBS (Crown Prince) of Saudi Arabia, who spoke with President Putin of Russia, & I expect & hope that they will be cutting back approximately 10 Million Barrels, and maybe substantially more which, if it happens, will be GREAT for the oil & gas industry!

Coming soon.............Infrastructure week

from the daily misinformation rally

He could keep himself out of so much trouble if he just read what was put in front of him instead of trying to riff on it and sound smarter or more informed than he is.

"We continue to study the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine," Trump says, reading, and will keep Americans updated.

Then, ad-libbing, he says, "I don't know, it's looking like it's having some good results."

Trump is clear as mud on cloth masks. CDC recommends all Americans wear cloth masks when they're out. "It's probably good. I'm not going to do it. You can if you want.

Trump continuing to ad-lib vague optimism: "Stay at home. This is ending. This will end. You'll some bad things...and some really good things. It's not going to be too long."

Trump says hospitals and healthcare providers treating uninsured patients with coronavirus will be reimbursed by the federal government through the CARES Act (remember that)

Trump is prohibiting the export of “scare medical supplies” like N95 respirators, surgical masks, gloves and other PPE through the Defense Production Act. (3 months after other countries)

It is so disconcerting watching the president deliver important news, and being surprised by it because he is reading it for the first time as he’s trying to tell us about it.

-Why aren’t you wearing a face mask?

-I just can’t sit behind that beautiful Resolute desk wearing a mask.

That wasn’t actually the recommendation, of course.
Surgeon general now trying to step in and do cleanup.

Hard to imagine another President that would personally reject a CDC guideline.

Maybe Fillmore.

And because we know you love her so much, let me present......
Nancy Pelosi
We’re up to about 90% of Americans being under shelter-in-place orders. It should be 100 percent.

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?

Lets Go Darwin
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Old 04-03-2020, 05:09 PM   #81
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Great work Bitchslappedboy
😷
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Old 04-03-2020, 05:18 PM   #82
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Another comment from the MRI1
Karma is a funny thing

Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!

Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?

Lets Go Darwin
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Old 04-03-2020, 06:13 PM   #83
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Sure, drugs, crime, poverty, fatherlessness, suicide, none f those thigs exist in liberal places.
No one claimed that the liberal states don't have those problems but liberal states have less crime less suicide less poverty and less drugs abuse, less fatherlessness, than conservative States.

I think you need to ask yourself the following:

When clinging to your beliefs requires you to deny facts that are staring you in the face, maybe ask why you believe what you believe
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Last edited by PaulS; 04-03-2020 at 06:25 PM..
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Old 04-03-2020, 09:13 PM   #84
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Another comment from the MRI1
Karma is a funny thing
Not as funny as watching the Bitchslappedboy flail.
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PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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Old 04-04-2020, 05:12 AM   #85
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That navy Captain just fired is the example of a True leader , Placing the care and treatment of his men , Above his own self intrest

"Modly said Crozier had cc’ed more than 20 people, including some outside the chain of command, over unsecured and unclassified systems, assuring the memo’s leak.

He also said Crozier did not speak to his direct superior, carrier strike group commander Rear Adm. Stuart Baker, about his concerns before sending the memo, despite Baker being on the carrier and living within feet of Crozier.

Modly said Crozier was not fired for expressing concerns, but the way he chose to do so.

The chain of command doesn’t exist merely to keep order. It also exists to keep information from the public. Crozier commanded one of only ten Nimitz-class nuclear-powered aircraft carriers in the Navy. These ships are considered the backbone of America’s naval fighting force.

By going public with his complaints, Crozier essentially sent a giant banner up into the sky announcing to America’s enemies that one of the primary weapons in America’s arsenal might be out of commission. You can see, therefore, why the Navy took a very dim view of Crozier bypassing the chain of command to announce that he had a problem."

Last edited by The Dad Fisherman; 04-04-2020 at 07:30 AM..
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Old 04-04-2020, 07:04 AM   #86
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[QUOTE=scottw;1190056]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post

That navy Captain just fired is the example of a True leader , Placing the care and treatment of his men , Above his own self intrest

[/QUOTE


"Modly said Crozier had cc’ed more than 20 people, including some outside the chain of command, over unsecured and unclassified systems, assuring the memo’s leak.

He also said Crozier did not speak to his direct superior, carrier strike group commander Rear Adm. Stuart Baker, about his concerns before sending the memo, despite Baker being on the carrier and living within feet of Crozier.

Modly said Crozier was not fired for expressing concerns, but the way he chose to do so.

The chain of command doesn’t exist merely to keep order. It also exists to keep information from the public. Crozier commanded one of only ten Nimitz-class nuclear-powered aircraft carriers in the Navy. These ships are considered the backbone of America’s naval fighting force.

By going public with his complaints, Crozier essentially sent a giant banner up into the sky announcing to America’s enemies that one of the primary weapons in America’s arsenal might be out of commission. You can see, therefore, why the Navy took a very dim view of Crozier bypassing the chain of command to announce that he had a problem."
Like i said.put his men before himself..

I am sure he spoke to his chain of command. And was told to lay down so he went over their heads ..

And his cc to people so it would be leaked..

Please with the giveing info to the. Enemy is bs every family member knew what was going on, and where the ship was .

The Navy's playing damage control
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Old 04-04-2020, 07:06 AM   #87
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[QUOTE=scottw;1190056]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post

That navy Captain just fired is the example of a True leader , Placing the care and treatment of his men , Above his own self intrest

[/QUOTE


"Modly said Crozier had cc’ed more than 20 people, including some outside the chain of command, over unsecured and unclassified systems, assuring the memo’s leak.

He also said Crozier did not speak to his direct superior, carrier strike group commander Rear Adm. Stuart Baker, about his concerns before sending the memo, despite Baker being on the carrier and living within feet of Crozier.

Modly said Crozier was not fired for expressing concerns, but the way he chose to do so.

The chain of command doesn’t exist merely to keep order. It also exists to keep information from the public. Crozier commanded one of only ten Nimitz-class nuclear-powered aircraft carriers in the Navy. These ships are considered the backbone of America’s naval fighting force.

By going public with his complaints, Crozier essentially sent a giant banner up into the sky announcing to America’s enemies that one of the primary weapons in America’s arsenal might be out of commission. You can see, therefore, why the Navy took a very dim view of Crozier bypassing the chain of command to announce that he had a problem."
Like i said.put his men before himself..

I am sure he spoke to his chain of command. And was told to lay down so he went over their heads ..

And his cc to people so it would be leaked.. please who leaked it if you know who got copies

giveing info to the. Enemy is bs every family member knew what was going on, and where the ship was .

The Navy's playing damage control
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Old 04-04-2020, 07:15 AM   #88
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In an interesting twist of history, the aircraft carrier’s namesake was involved in a similar situation. During the summer of 1898, Colonel Theodore Roosevelt, U.S. Army, was leading the famed “Rough Riders” in Cuba. The Rough Riders were part of the Army’s Fifth Corps garrisoned near Santiago de Cuba. At the time, more than 4,000 of the Fifth Corps’ 4,270 soldiers were sick with malaria and yellow fever. Many were on the verge of dying. The eight divisional commanders, including Roosevelt, were convinced that if they remained in Cuba Fifth Corps would be wiped out.
The divisional commanders met with Major General William R. Shafter, Fifth Corps Commander, and requested that Fifth Corps immediately redeploy to the United States. While it is unclear how Shafter responded to the request, he was certainly aware that President McKinley wanted to maintain a military presence in Cuba until the United States was able to finish peace negotiations with Spain. Whatever his reaction, the divisional commanders left the meeting compelled to put their request in writing.

The writing allegedly fell to Colonel Roosevelt, as he was the lowest ranking officer among them and the only volunteer, which meant he had the least to lose, career-wise, in the event the chain of command was to react negatively to the letter. As documented in Roosevelt’s book The Rough Riders, published in 1899, the letter, known as the Round-Robin letter and signed by all of them, reads as follows:
MAJOR-GENERAL SHAFTER. SIR: In a meeting of the general and medical officers called by you at the Palace this morning we were all, as you know, unanimous in our views of what should be done with the army. To keep us here, in the opinion of every officer commanding a division or a brigade, will simply involve the destruction of thousands. There is no possible reason for not shipping practically the entire command North at once. Yellow-fever cases are very few in the cavalry division, where I command one of the two brigades, and not one true case of yellow fever has occurred in this division, except among the men sent to the hospital at Siboney, where they have, I believe, contracted it. But in this division there have been 1,500 cases of malarial fever. Hardly a man has yet died from it, but the whole command is so weakened and shattered as to be ripe for dying like rotten sheep, when a real yellow-fever epidemic instead of a fake epidemic, like the present one, strikes us, as it is bound to do if we stay here at the height of the sickness season, August and the beginning of September. Quarantine against malarial fever is much like quarantining against the toothache. All of us are certain that as soon as the authorities at Washington fully appreciate the condition of the army, we shall be sent home. If we are kept here it will in all human possibility mean an appalling disaster, for the surgeons here estimate that over half the army, if kept here during the sickly season, will die. This is not only terrible from the stand-point of the individual lives lost, but it means ruin from the stand-point of military efficiency of the flower of the American army, for the great bulk of the regulars are here with you. The sick list, large though it is, exceeding four thousand, affords but a faint index of the debilitation of the army. Not twenty per cent. are fit for active work. Six weeks on the North Maine coast, for instance, or elsewhere where the yellow-fever germ cannot possibly propagate, would make us all as fit as fighting-cocks, as able as we are eager to take a leading part in the great campaign against Havana in the fall, even if we are not allowed to try Porto Rico. We can be moved North, if moved at once, with absolute safety to the country, although, of course, it would have been infinitely better if we had been moved North or to Porto Rico two weeks ago. If there were any object in keeping us here, we would face yellow fever with as much indifference as we faced bullets. But there is no object. The four immune regiments ordered here are sufficient to garrison the city and surrounding towns, and there is absolutely nothing for us to do here, and there has not been since the city surrendered. It is impossible to move into the interior. Every shifting of camp doubles the sick-rate in our present weakened condition, and, anyhow, the interior is rather worse than the coast, as I have found by actual reconnoissance. Our present camps are as healthy as any camps at this end of the island can be. I write only because I cannot see our men, who have fought so bravely and who have endured extreme hardship and danger so uncomplainingly, go to destruction without striving so far as lies in me to avert a doom as fearful as it is unnecessary and undeserved. Yours respectfully,THEODORE ROOSEVELT, Colonel Commanding Second Cavalry Brigade.
Roosevelt delivered the letter to Shafter, but, presumably not convinced the corps commander would act on it in a timely fashion, also allegedly handed a copy of it to the Associated Press correspondent who was covering the Cuba beat. That correspondent quickly cabled the letter to AP headquarters and it published nationwide the same day.

The public outcry was overwhelming and unanimous in accusing the McKinley Administration of not caring about the troops. McKinley summoned his Secretary of War, Russell A. Alger, and vented his fury that the letter was leaked and ordered him to do what he could to make the problem go away.
Alger demurred when asked by the press whether the leak had caused him to react faster than he otherwise would have; however, he was on record as previously having asserted that no ships were available to bring Fifth Corps back from Cuba.
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Old 04-04-2020, 07:30 AM   #89
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[QUOTE=wdmso;1190059]
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I am sure he spoke to


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you don't know anything....
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Old 04-04-2020, 09:32 AM   #90
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you don't know anything....
I know enough that the captain in command of one the most powerful weapon in the US Military

Wouldn't have made these actions as his 1st choice . To address his concerns .

Unless all other choices were allready dead ends...

Why else whould he throw his future in the Navy down the Drain?
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