Ukraine

[spence]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Too bad about all that weaponry we left in Afghanistan...... Just imagine if that had been put in someone else's hands

Seems like those stories while in know way insignificant were grossly overstated.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

JUST imagine if trump were still president, actually you don’t have to, just read his statements

. (Reuters) -Former President Donald Trump condemned on Saturday Russia's invasion of Ukraine and said he was praying for Ukrainians . . .

Trump expressed empathy for Ukrainians and this time praised Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, calling him "brave" as he stays in Kyiv, the capital.

"The Russian attack on Ukraine is appalling. We are praying for the proud people of Ukraine. God bless them all," Trump said.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

. (Reuters) -Former President Donald Trump condemned on Saturday Russia's invasion of Ukraine and said he was praying for Ukrainians . . .

Trump expressed empathy for Ukrainians and this time praised Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, calling him "brave" as he stays in Kyiv, the capital.

"The Russian attack on Ukraine is appalling. We are praying for the proud people of Ukraine. God bless them all," Trump said.

Correction: Putin invaded Ukraine because he believed Trump had weakened NATO, split the allies, and divided America.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Correction: Putin invaded Ukraine because he believed Trump had weakened NATO, split the allies, and divided America.
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which is why he waited for more than a year after trump was gone....

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnR

I think this was good. They tried to get China to assist - no surprise they didn't , but it is good others know.

.

seems like we overestimated our influence with China, underestimated the relationship China has with Russia....Russian got all of our intelligence and a stronger alliance with and reassurances from China...not sure how that is good

maybe we can give putin our intelligence regarding china and taiwan and ask him to encourage them not to invade

[scottw]

is putin simply "wrecking Ukraine"?

pretty interesting from 2015

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Correction: Putin invaded Ukraine because he believed Trump had weakened NATO, split the allies, and divided America.
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No, NATO is divided because Central/Western Europe but particularly Germany got used to spending less on their own defense and expecting the USA to pick up their defense. Putin has for well over a decade done everything possible to erode NATO.

Trump surely divided you.

Originally Posted by scottw

seems like we overestimated our influence with China, underestimated the relationship China has with Russia....Russian got all of our intelligence and a stronger alliance with and reassurances from China...not sure how that is good

maybe we can give putin our intelligence regarding china and taiwan and ask him to encourage them not to invade

No, we'll still need to work with them and vice versa - for now. Wait till we bring up Climate Change.

Originally Posted by scottw

is putin simply "wrecking Ukraine"?

pretty interesting from 2015

Going to cost Putin Russia at this rate.

[nightfighter]

Well Germany has finally come with their checkbook. $100 billion Euro commitment to a military fund. Just this morning in an emergency Sunday morning session.

BERLIN (AP) — German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said Sunday that Germany is committing 100 billion euros to a special fund for its armed forces, raising its defense spending above 2 percent of GDP.



Not exactly what I would have thought they could do, but clearly a major shift in their defense and security policy

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Too bad about all that weaponry we left in Afghanistan...... Just imagine if that had been put in someone else's hands

if Afghan fought like the Ukcrains (as we expected them and fight for Their Freedoms )after we left Biden would have been a Hero

But as we know it never happened

[scottw]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Well Germany has finally come with their checkbook. $100 billion Euro commitment to a military fund. Just this morning in an emergency Sunday morning session.

BERLIN (AP) — German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said Sunday that Germany is committing 100 billion euros to a special fund for its armed forces, raising its defense spending above 2 percent of GDP.



Not exactly what I would have thought they could do, but clearly a major shift in their defense and security policy

emphasis on "finally"...

It has become clear that “we need to invest significantly more in the security of our country, in order to protect our freedom and our democracy,” Scholz said.

Germany has been widely criticized for what many describe as meager investment in its military and its slow and lackluster response to Russia’s military buildup around, and subsequent invasion of, Ukraine.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by scottw

which is why he waited for more than a year after trump was gone....

Trump if re-elected would have withdrawn the USA from NATO, as he had threatened.
Trump had arms for Ukraine removed from the Republican Party platform as a candidate, Congress had to make arms for Ukraine veto proof and add provisions to prevent the Trump administration from holding up the aid.
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[wdmso]

Ukraine, agrees to meeting

lets see how this Goes

I could see the possibilities Ukraine telling Russia you withDraw your forces we will Agree not to Join NATO but will Join the EU ..

It will be a hard Choice For Them to Make or they decide just to go down Swinging no matter the Cost

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Trump if re-elected would have withdrawn the USA from NATO, as he had threatened.

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he threatened to get those European countries to commit more...seems like he was right about a lot...

NOV 2018 MILITARY TIMES

President Donald Trump on Monday unloaded on the U.S.’s European allies, and appeared to threaten to pull out of NATO, French President Emmanuel Macron openly rebuked Trump’s political philosophy in a speech the day before.

The U.S. by far spends the most in NATO, both on its own defense budget and on programs to increase the readiness and capabilities of its European allies.

In 2014, NATO countries agreed to raise their defense spending to 2 percent of gross domestic product by 2024. So far, only five countries — mainly in eastern and central Europe where the threat of Russia looms large — have met that pledge.

Since his campaign days, Trump has demanded NATO countries meet that 2 percent figure, or even double it, immediately.

Germany, Europe's biggest economy, has expressed little interest in hitting that benchmark.

Greece is one of the few NATO countries that meet the 2percent spending mark, but it spends much of that on pensions.

[Pete F.]

WASHINGTON — There are few things that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia desires more than the weakening of NATO, the military alliance among the United States, Europe and Canada that has deterred Soviet and Russian aggression for 70 years.

Last year, President Trump suggested a move tantamount to destroying NATO: the withdrawal of the United States.

Senior administration officials told The New York Times that several times over the course of 2018, Mr. Trump privately said he wanted to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Current and former officials who support the alliance said they feared Mr. Trump could return to his threat as allied military spending continued to lag behind the goals the president had set.

In the days around a tumultuous NATO summit meeting last summer, they said, Mr. Trump told his top national security officials that he did not see the point of the military alliance, which he presented as a drain on the United States.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

he threatened to get those European countries to commit more...seems like he was right about a lot...

NOV 2018 MILITARY TIMES

President Donald Trump on Monday unloaded on the U.S.’s European allies, and appeared to threaten to pull out of NATO, French President Emmanuel Macron openly rebuked Trump’s political philosophy in a speech the day before.

The U.S. by far spends the most in NATO, both on its own defense budget and on programs to increase the readiness and capabilities of its European allies.

In 2014, NATO countries agreed to raise their defense spending to 2 percent of gross domestic product by 2024. So far, only five countries — mainly in eastern and central Europe where the threat of Russia looms large — have met that pledge.

Since his campaign days, Trump has demanded NATO countries meet that 2 percent figure, or even double it, immediately.

Germany, Europe's biggest economy, has expressed little interest in hitting that benchmark.

Greece is one of the few NATO countries that meet the 2percent spending mark, but it spends much of that on pensions.

Trump nor Biden are responsible for Putin's Invasion Putin is solely Responsible

yet Feel free to Ignore the rest of Trump Actions with NATO and Ukraine and the removal of 12k troops from Germany ...

Trump is Playing you if you think his intentions were to get NATO to Pay More Just like he is still claiming the election was Rigged .. Keep supporting Trump who is more like Putin than your willing to Admit and His past action Show how he's on the Same page as Putin when is comes NATO and Ukraine joining NATO


Cheney Rips Trump, Pompeo for 'Praising' Russian President: 'Putin Is Evil'

Funny I've been pointing these people Siding with Putin showering him with praise offering no condemnation out since this started

and the response from the TRUMP fan club was "who" and now you are attempting to spin Trump's current Action with nonsense from 2018

[Pete F.]

Putin's war effort in Ukraine seems rather Trumpian in its half-assedness.
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[wdmso]

Putin nuclear warning 'dangerous'


Lets see if the russian Military are that stupid to open that pandora's Box

even a small Tactical nuke would be disastrous

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Last year, President Trump suggested a move tantamount to destroying NATO: the withdrawal of the United States.

Senior administration officials told The New York Times that several times over the course of 2018, Mr. Trump privately said he wanted to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization....
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dear pete...it is currently 2022

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Trump nor Biden are responsible for Putin's Invasion Putin is solely Responsible

yet Feel free to Ignore the rest of Trump Actions with NATO and Ukraine and the removal of 12k troops from Germany ...

Trump is Playing you if you think his intentions were to get NATO to Pay More Just like he is still claiming the election was Rigged .. Keep supporting Trump who is more like Putin than your willing to Admit and His past action Show how he's on the Same page as Putin when is comes NATO and Ukraine joining NATO


Cheney Rips Trump, Pompeo for 'Praising' Russian President: 'Putin Is Evil'

Funny I've been pointing these people Siding with Putin showering him with praise offering no condemnation out since this started

and the response from the TRUMP fan club was "who" and now you are attempting to spin Trump's current Action with nonsense from 2018

you are great at getting just about everything wrong

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Funny I've been pointing these people Siding with Putin showering him with praise offering no condemnation out since this started

I didn't see you show that any one person was siding with Putin.

Saying he's cunning and formidable and smart, isn't nearly the same as saying "I hope he wins in Ukraine".

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I didn't see you show that any one person was siding with Putin.

Saying he's cunning and formidable and smart, isn't nearly the same as saying "I hope he wins in Ukraine".

he's pretty evil....seems like the euro-weenies are just figuring that out

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

he's pretty evil....seems like the euro-weenies are just figuring that out

Correct. He's evil. Unfortunately, he's not a buffoon. I wish he was.

That I say he's not a buffoon, doesn't mean I'm siding with him, and you'd be fairly idiotic to say it does mean I'm siding with him.

Tucker Carlson DID say he was siding with Russia, and said he was "obviously kidding". It's a pretty godawful thing to kid about.

[Pete F.]

Sad, but it’s perfectly ok isn’t it

“I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius.’ Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful,” Trump told conservative podcaster Buck Sexton.

I said, ‘How smart is that?’ And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force… We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right,” Trump continued. “Here’s a guy who’s very savvy… I know him very well. Very, very well.”

Then you have the useful idiot Tucker who suggested that Putin’s invasion is just a border dispute. He’s suggested that Biden is doing this to pay off imagined debts to Ukrainian Oligarchs. Tucker laid out Putin’s plan for costs to impose on Americans, in terms of energy costs. Tucker included every single false claim about Ukraine that Russia has been planting since 2016. Every single one.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I didn't see you show that any one person was siding with Putin.

Saying he's cunning and formidable and smart, isn't nearly the same as saying "I hope he wins in Ukraine".

your Rationalization skills and denial skills once again clearly on display !

Mitt Romney calls pro-Putin sentiments from some in GOP and media ‘almost treasonous’

you dont know him either or he's Just another RINO

[wdmso]

another Tucker 2018 0r 2019 moment I am Sure will He be defended as it was Just Humor or Hyperbole


But How Dare the POTUS claim to want to defeat Cancer !

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Sad, but it’s perfectly ok isn’t it

“I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius.’ Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful,” Trump told conservative podcaster Buck Sexton.

I said, ‘How smart is that?’ And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force… We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right,” Trump continued. “Here’s a guy who’s very savvy… I know him very well. Very, very well.”

You left out Trump's word "No" between the sentences "They’re gonna keep peace all right,” and “Here’s a guy who’s very savvy… ” He said No after the sarcastically stated "They're gonna keep peace all right" bit. I listened to the whole podcast. In it Trump said the invasion was a disaster. He was being sarcastic about the "Oh, that's wonderful," and the "They're gonna keep peace all right,"--his tone was his usual sarcasm re that and the "he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper." He didn't actually mean that the invasion was wonderful or that it was a "peace keeping" invasion--He said "No" to that. He actually said in the podcast that it was a disaster.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

You left out Trump's word "No" between the sentences "They’re gonna keep peace all right,” and “Here’s a guy who’s very savvy… ” He said No after the sarcastically stated "They're gonna keep peace all right" bit. I listened to the whole podcast. In it Trump said the invasion was a disaster. He was being sarcastic about the "Oh, that's wonderful," and the "They're gonna keep peace all right,"--his tone was his usual sarcasm re that and the "he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper." He didn't actually mean that the invasion was wonderful or that it was a "peace keeping" invasion--He said "No" to that. He actually said in the podcast that it was a disaster.

Russian newscasts make it sound much better
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Russian newscasts make it sound much better
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The Buxton and Travis shows are on Apple podcasts.

Here are some other things Trump said on the podcast you misrepresented:

RE NATO: "here were eight countries out of 28 that were paid up, including us. We were paid up. We were more than paid up. We were making up the difference. But we have 28 countries, and eight were paid up, and you had 20 countries that were not. And I was asked a question by one of the presidents of one of the countries in a closed meeting, “Does that mean…?” “Do you mean to say that you wouldn’t protect us?” And I said, “You mean you’re not paid up and you want us to protect you?” I said, “That’s right. We will not protect you if you’re not paid up.” You know what happened? The next day, billions of dollars flowed in."

RE PUTIN AND THE INVASION: "This would never have happened if we [Trump administration] were there. But . . . Chuck Todd asked that question. How come there was none of this happening during the Trump administration? . . I think he [Putin] sees this opportunity. I knew that he always wanted Ukraine. I used to talk to him about it. I said, “You can’t do it. You’re not gonna do it.”

[Pete F.]

More baloney from you and Trump

Trump, when he claims he got $130 billion extra, is really talking about indirect funding. Since 2006, each NATO member has had a guideline of spending at least 2 percent of gross domestic product on defense spending. At a 2014 summit, responding to Russian aggression in Ukraine, NATO members pledged to meet that guideline by 2024.
Note the date — that was three years before Trump became president, and a year before he even announced he was running for president. Yet he persistently claims credit for actions that were underway before he became president — and consistently misleads about where NATO funding was headed before he became president.

Trump’s foreign policy sought to do much of what Putin wants to achieve, including intimidating Ukraine by withholding vital defensive weapons.

Putin wanted to undermine the NATO alliance, and Trump undermined the NATO alliance. Putin wanted to weaken the E.U., and Trump did everything he could to damage the E.U. Putin wanted to weaken the U.S. political system, and Trump was constantly trying to weaken the U.S. political system.

If Trump had been re-elected, Russia would have become a member of the G8, the sanctions would have ended and Trump would have paved the way for Putin’s seizure of Ukraine
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

More baloney from you and Trump

What baloney? You said "JUST imagine if trump were still president, actually you don’t have to, just read his statements"

Which you followed by selecting parts of his statements out of full context and true meaning. I did, as you suggested, read his FULL statements, then corrected your baloney.

Trump, when he claims he got $130 billion extra, is really talking about indirect funding. Since 2006, each NATO member has had a guideline of spending at least 2 percent of gross domestic product on defense spending. At a 2014 summit, responding to Russian aggression in Ukraine, NATO members pledged to meet that guideline by 2024.
Note the date — that was three years before Trump became president, and a year before he even announced he was running for president. Yet he persistently claims credit for actions that were underway before he became president — and consistently misleads about where NATO funding was headed before he became president.

"Were underway? "was headed" Russia was going to wait until 2024? Eight countries had already achieved that goal. The U.S. was spending beyond that goal. The head of NATO praised Trump for helping to speed up the process. We're still almost 3 years away from 2024 and Russia has again done what was the reason for pledging the money.


Trump’s foreign policy sought to do much of what Putin wants to achieve, including intimidating Ukraine by withholding vital defensive weapons.

Trump's foreign policy did not "seek to do what Putin wants. It even countered Putin in some regards. Including the damage to Russias profits from oil with making us a net exporter of oil thus lowering the world price for it.

Ukraine got the vital defensive weapons. And now NATO members are ponying up more money to send Ukraine more weapons and other help. It seems like NATO needed a wake up call to action and spending well before 2024.

Putin wanted to undermine the NATO alliance, and Trump undermined the NATO alliance.

Trump did not undermine the alliance. And there was already grumbling within the alliance which was not putting up as strong a face to Russia as it should.

Putin wanted to weaken the E.U., and Trump did everything he could to damage the E.U.

Trump did not, as you say, do everything he could do to damage the E.U. And the E.U. members had forever conflicted and bickered and "damaged" the efficacy of the EU.

Putin wanted to weaken the U.S. political system, and Trump was constantly trying to weaken the U.S. political system.

Trump was not trying to weaken the U.S. political system. And the Progressives have a hundred year history of weakening the founded system and transforming it into an authoritarian system that is totally turningthe system on its head.

If Trump had been re-elected, Russia would have become a member of the G8, the sanctions would have ended and Trump would have paved the way for Putin’s seizure of Ukraine

The President doesn't have the authority to unilaterally decide who will be accepted into the intergovernmental forum. And, obviously, Putin didn't need being a member of the G8 to "pave his way."