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Old 09-18-2016, 09:42 AM   #61
detbuch
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Originally Posted by spence View Post
Because it's not. The vast majority of Americans believe in legal, responsible gun ownership with some limitations...not repealing the Second Amendment. Only the *extreme* fringe left wishes to abolish.
There is the legitimate way of repealing the Second Amendment--the amendment process itself. Repeal the legitimate way is not possible as long as the "vast majority of Americans" are against it. And persuading the vast majority with the ongoing propaganda war against private gun ownership can take too long to win.

Repeal in the illegitimate way, placing "some limitations," and then some more, and then some more, through bogus "interpretations" until the Second Amendment is meaningless is a faster, surer way to do it.

What was once the *extreme* fringe left has now become the mainstream left--the Progressive left. And Progressives are not merely about repealing this or that Amendment. They want to reinterpret the entire Constitution, and in such a way that limitations on government are removed. The Second Amendment is just another tidbit (albeit a rather large tidbit) among the interpretive destructions that have already been accomplished.
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Old 09-18-2016, 10:12 AM   #62
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[QUOTE=JohnR;1108573]Nebe - you really voting for Trump? Really? Truly? Were you drinking?

Many of us are voting for Trump, not because of who he personally is, but because he is on the ticket for the party that has any realistic chance of reversing the Progressive takeover of the American political process and reshaping it into their own authoritarian image.

Trump got the nomination. For good or ill, that's the big elephant fact in the room. If he wins, he won't be around forever. Probably only one term, if he lasts that long. And we still haven't been transformed to the point that the President is a total dictator. We're inching toward that, at least toward the point where he is the visible figurehead of an all-powerful central government.

So he will be held in check not only by Progressives, but by those in his party who oppose that kind of transformation. Because so many in his party oppose him, his use of the bully pulpit will only go as far as his majority in Congress will allow him--if he has a majority. That would, as well, at least temporarily, hold in check our trajectory into authoritarianism. So the only real concern, as far as the future direction of the country goes, would be whom he nominates for the Court. And, like anything else he will do, he will be advised. And, I am guessing, his advisers won't be Progressive.
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Old 09-18-2016, 10:20 AM   #63
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[QUOTE=detbuch;1108577]
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Originally Posted by JohnR View Post
Nebe - you really voting for Trump? Really? Truly? Were you drinking?

Many of us are voting for Trump, not because of who he personally is, but because he is on the ticket for the party that has any realistic chance of reversing the Progressive takeover of the American political process and reshaping it into their own authoritarian image.

Trump got the nomination. For good or ill, that's the big elephant fact in the room. If he wins, he won't be around forever. Probably only one term, if he lasts that long. And we still haven't been transformed to the point that the President is a total dictator. We're inching toward that, at least toward the point where he is the visible figurehead of an all-powerful central government.

So he will be held in check not only by Progressives, but by those in his party who oppose that kind of transformation. Because so many in his party oppose him, his use of the bully pulpit will only go as far as his majority in Congress will allow him--if he has a majority. That would, as well, at least temporarily, hold in check our trajectory into authoritarianism. So the only real concern, as far as the future direction of the country goes, would be whom he nominates for the Court. And, like anything else he will do, he will be advised. And, I am guessing, his advisers won't be Progressive.
For starters - I understand why people vote for Trump - good and bad. I am shocked that Nebe is there so I suspect a high degree of mischief in the post

I can't vote for Trump. I just can't. We have the candidate that has done wrong in ForPol and we have the candidate that will do wrong in ForPol. I don't see a high degree of difference between the two (though shockingly HC is not as bad as DT). Hillary will digest things to a fault before making a bad decision, The Donald will ready and fire no aiming.

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Old 09-18-2016, 10:48 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by detbuch View Post
What was once the *extreme* fringe left has now become the mainstream left--the Progressive left. And Progressives are not merely about repealing this or that Amendment. They want to reinterpret the entire Constitution, and in such a way that limitations on government are removed. The Second Amendment is just another tidbit (albeit a rather large tidbit) among the interpretive destructions that have already been accomplished.
Under Obama, one of these *extreme* fringe leftists you speak about gun ownership and gun rights have gone up. Is he just really bad at it?
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Old 09-18-2016, 11:02 AM   #65
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[QUOTE=JohnR;1108579]
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Originally Posted by detbuch View Post
Hillary will digest things to a fault before making a bad decision, The Donald will ready and fire no aiming.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/sizing-u...ief-1474064606
Hillary has been digesting things all her political life, and she still comes up with bad decisions. I don't think it's so much the digesting as it is about eating bad politics in the first place which leads to her decisions. That won't change no matter how much she digests the poisoned meat.

As for Trump, according to pundits including Spence, his every move is calculated. It would have taken a lot of calculating in his business ventures. Some good, some bad. And he won't be making decisions on his own whim. He surrounds himself with "good" advisers. And his party will, no doubt, be advising the hell out of him. It's their Arse, not just his. The image I get of him is that he likes to take the credit for other people's good work.

Anyway, if we have already arrived at the point where the President can, without the approval of Congress, do whatever he wants, then it is too late. If we are at that point, then the system, along with the country, is in for a huge collapse.
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Old 09-18-2016, 11:06 AM   #66
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Under Obama, one of these *extreme* fringe leftists you speak about gun ownership and gun rights have gone up. Is he just really bad at it?
That is so hilarious. Are you imputing the rise of gun ownership and whatever rights have been solidified (not gone up) in the Courts to the efforts of Obama? Is that what you call intellectual honesty?

You're deeper in the tank than I thought.
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Old 09-18-2016, 11:32 AM   #67
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As for Trump, according to pundits including Spence, his every move is calculated.
Quite the contrary, I've repeatedly said he's very erratic. I do think his offensive remarks are a combination of calculation and just revealing who he really is.


Quote:
It would have taken a lot of calculating in his business ventures. Some good, some bad. And he won't be making decisions on his own whim. He surrounds himself with "good" advisers. And his party will, no doubt, be advising the hell out of him. It's their Arse, not just his. The image I get of him is that he likes to take the credit for other people's good work.
And lie about his numerous failures and scandals. Must have been nice to start a career with millions of dollars and the system in your father's pocket. When that cashflow dried up there's always Wall Street to fleece, and the taxpayers. Good thing he's possibly got Russian oligarchs propping his business up. One thing Trump is good at is profiting off of other's losses.

Quote:
Anyway, if we have already arrived at the point where the President can, without the approval of Congress, do whatever he wants, then it is too late. If we are at that point, then the system, along with the country, is in for a huge collapse.
I think we're a long way from that.
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Old 09-18-2016, 11:33 AM   #68
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That is so hilarious. Are you imputing the rise of gun ownership and whatever rights have been solidified (not gone up) in the Courts to the efforts of Obama?
That's not what I said...
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Old 09-18-2016, 01:56 PM   #69
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And lie about his numerous failures and scandals. .
Boy howdy, are you selective in requiring honesty in your candidates. Hilary passes your honesty test...that must be some curve you grade on...Kate Upton couldn't hope for such curves.
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Old 09-18-2016, 02:02 PM   #70
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hillary isn't white? or is it because Trump is orange?
the latter
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Old 09-18-2016, 03:52 PM   #71
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Under Obama, one of these *extreme* fringe leftists you speak about gun ownership and gun rights have gone up. Is he just really bad at it?
Really? You're going to throw that statement out there like that and not quantify it? How about stating why gun ownership has gone up?

The future ain't what it used to be. --Yogi Berra
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Old 09-18-2016, 05:09 PM   #72
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Quite the contrary, I've repeatedly said he's very erratic. I do think his offensive remarks are a combination of calculation and just revealing who he really is.

You said "Trump either outright lies or just makes stuff up pretty much every time he opens his mouth. He does it as strategy to distract, confuse and toy with the media." Sounds pretty calculating to me--and every time he opens his mouth. Sounds like he is always calculating, not very erratic.

And lie about his numerous failures and scandals. Must have been nice to start a career with millions of dollars and the system in your father's pocket. When that cashflow dried up there's always Wall Street to fleece, and the taxpayers. Good thing he's possibly got Russian oligarchs propping his business up. One thing Trump is good at is profiting off of other's losses.

The way you put it, it sounds like he really knows how to work the system. Sounds pretty savvy. Sounds pretty effective. He knows how to get things done in a milieu of corruption such as existed in New York and New Jersey(and exists now in most government and big union entities). You had to know the right people who could help you work with and around corrupt unions, corrupt politicians and corrupt State, City, and Federal officials, as well as dangerous Mafia bosses. I'm sure Trump learned a lot of things about big money being in bed with government, and with shady people who had to be dealt with. He knew he had to cozy up to Democrats, attend a wedding or two, make some big donations. You know, scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.

Sounds like he knows how to make deals with powerful people and groups. Perhaps he's learned enough to handle shysters like Putin and Iranian bureaucrats without giving away the store.

As for profiting off of other's losses, that's what big money people do. Your boy Warren Buffet is good at that. If you are in the stock market in any way, you do it too. And that's what businesses do when they compete with others.


I think we're a long way from that.
I hope your right, except that "a long way from" still implies that it will happen. You progressives are very persistent.

But if that is so (that we have not already arrived at the point where the President can, without the approval of Congress, do whatever he wants), then why are you guys so afraid of Trump? Perhaps, you should all be more afraid of our corrupted, authoritarian government. And maybe Trump can be the guy who blows it up.

Last edited by detbuch; 09-18-2016 at 05:35 PM..
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Old 09-18-2016, 07:07 PM   #73
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exactly right debutch

I'd pay money to see a debate between you and spence rather than watch a presidential debate

The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.

1984 was a warning, not a guidebook!

It's time more people spoke up with the truth. Every time we let a leftist lie go uncorrected, the commies get stronger.
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Old 09-18-2016, 07:52 PM   #74
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One thing Trump is good at is profiting off of other's losses.


.
Hmmm...your candidate, as an attorney, defended a man who raped a child. That's not profiting from someone else's loss?

Do you have ANY principles? I mean, actual principles? Other than conservative=bad, and liberal=good?
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Old 09-19-2016, 07:39 AM   #75
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Hillary mentioned bomb yesterday....socialist news media edits it out and attacks Trump for the word bomb.....

"When its not about money,it's all about money."...
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