OBL(UBL) Killed

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Not really a womans magazine, but it was the first link that popped up. There's plenty of others...

If you want to question this being a trillion dollar war just count the Congressional appropriations on record (around 900B) and the fact that we still have tens of thousands of troops and contractors as taxpayer liabilities. Obviously, this doesn't factor in the even more dramatic soft costs.

As for the quality of intel changing dramatically the day after Obama took office...I call bull#^&#^&#^&#^&. You're either completely off your rocker or just making things up.

As for the head of the CIA not keeping his mouth shut, did he say anything else or are you going to hinge your entire argument on one statement you're simply reading into what you want to hear?

-spence

YouTube it Spence. It comes right from his mouth.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by buckman

YouTube it Spence. It comes right from his mouth.

you are missing the part where the administration sent a lackey right out to explain that what came out of his mouth, didn't come out of his mouth...let me be clear aaaaaand don't spike the football

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

YouTube it Spence. It comes right from his mouth.

What comes from his mouth? Please be more specific...

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

What comes from his mouth? Please be more specific...

-spence

NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams: News and videos from the evening broadcast- msnbc.com

Watch please

Intelligence garnered from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him, CIA Chief Leon Panetta told NBC News on Tuesday.
"Enhanced interrogation techniques" were used to extract information that led to the mission's success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams: News and videos from the evening broadcast- msnbc.com

Watch please

Intelligence garnered from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him, CIA Chief Leon Panetta told NBC News on Tuesday.
"Enhanced interrogation techniques" were used to extract information that led to the mission's success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.

I thought we had discussed this already.

Before you can assert that waterboarding "works" you'd first want to establish if it played a signifigant part in the operation. By Panetta's own words, the information gained from detainees who had at some time (I believe years previously) been subjected to EIT's was a small piece of a large network of intel and arguably could have been gained by other means.

To give waterboarding credit for the mission success in this light doesn't seem to pass a simple logic test, and is contrary to what we do know as fact, that the primary reason we found OBL was through many years of hard work by the intelligence community.

I don't have a problem with some who believe torture is morally justified, but to use this instance as affirmation of its effectiveness is a different issue and one that doesn't seem to be supported by the known facts or the CIA Director.

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

I thought we had discussed this already.

Before you can assert that waterboarding "works" you'd first want to establish if it played a signifigant part in the operation. By Panetta's own words, the information gained from detainees who had at some time (I believe years previously) been subjected to EIT's was a small piece of a large network of intel and arguably could have been gained by other means.

To give waterboarding credit for the mission success in this light doesn't seem to pass a simple logic test, and is contrary to what we do know as fact, that the primary reason we found OBL was through many years of hard work by the intelligence community.

I don't have a problem with some who believe torture is morally justified, but to use this instance as affirmation of its effectiveness is a different issue and one that doesn't seem to be supported by the known facts or the CIA Director.

-spence

"Enhanced interrogation techniques" were used to extract information that led to the mission's success, Panetta said

Your logic that the information would be handed over anyway or was not usefull is contrary to what the head of the CIA believes. This is not a moral issue Spence. This is life or death.

This is a NBC report......not the evil Fox network

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

"Enhanced interrogation techniques" were used to extract information that led to the mission's success, Panetta said

Panetta is not denying that EIT's were in the mix at some point, but he in no way is crediting them as a substantial contributor...he actually goes pretty far to make this point clear.

Your logic that the information would be handed over anyway or was not usefull is contrary to what the head of the CIA believes. This is not a moral issue Spence. This is life or death.

For you to say that water boarding "worked" means they were able to get intel from it they wouldn't have got otherwise, and that this intel aided substantially in the hunt for Bin Laden. Cause and effect. I've yet to see anything that indicates this is the case...at all.

I did also notice that on the Sunday shows the intel people were very careful on this point...hell, even #^&#^&#^&#^& Cheney danced around it...

And usually Cheney doesn't dance around anything

-spence

[striperman36]

Actually he's been on ice for years. Obama brought him out of the freezer to move the nation away from his fake birth certificate



Red Alert: Government Had Osama bin Laden Frozen for Years Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Panetta is not denying that EIT's were in the mix at some point, but he in no way is crediting them as a substantial contributor...he actually goes pretty far to make this point clear.



For you to say that water boarding "worked" means they were able to get intel from it they wouldn't have got otherwise, and that this intel aided substantially in the hunt for Bin Laden. Cause and effect. I've yet to see anything that indicates this is the case...at all.

I did also notice that on the Sunday shows the intel people were very careful on this point...hell, even #^&#^&#^&#^& Cheney danced around it...

And usually Cheney doesn't dance around anything

-spence

They would not have been able to get the intel by other means. That is the damn point Spence.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Panetta is not denying that EIT's were in the mix at some point, but he in no way is crediting them as a substantial contributor...he actually goes pretty far to make this point clear.



For you to say that water boarding "worked" means they were able to get intel from it they wouldn't have got otherwise, and that this intel aided substantially in the hunt for Bin Laden. Cause and effect. I've yet to see anything that indicates this is the case...at all.

I did also notice that on the Sunday shows the intel people were very careful on this point...hell, even #^&#^&#^&#^& Cheney danced around it...

And usually Cheney doesn't dance around anything

-spence

Spence, I have never seen anyone so unwilling to admit facts that don't serve their personal political agenda...

Obama's CIA chief said that enhanced interrogation produced actionable intelligence in this investigation. It worked.

In an earlier post, you seemed to gloat that KSM didn't offer anything "while being waterboarded".

Newsflash...no one gets interrgoated while they are being waterboarded. Waterboarding is designed to break down resistance, so that subsequent interrogations are more productive.

Spence, for God's sake, a CHILD understands that most people will be willing to do more things under durress than they will do if you ask "pretty please". If you want to talk about whether or not it's moral, that's a different (though equally obvious) argument...but almost no one is still denying that it works. Only the completely brainwashed and ideological.

You are clearly someone who has made up his mind, and someone who ignores everything that doesn't support your established position. You cannot possibly learn anything that way...