Rumors or where there's smoke there's something

[spence]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

This isn't complicated:

1) Trump corruptly demanded something of personal value in exchange for official action.
2) That's the legal definition of bribery.
3) The Constitution specifies bribery as grounds for impeachment.

To say there's no impeachable offense is just nonsense.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I think the framers were thinking of the president being bribed, that being said this is a massive scandal and it's getting worse every day. Wait till the public hearings start, Senate repubs will be throwing up in the chamber.

[wdmso]

Trump Must Pay $2 Million Over Misuse Of Foundation Funds

the judgement, that money "was used for Mr. Trump's political campaign and disbursed by Mr. Trump's campaign staff, rather than by the Foundation," which is unlawful. However, Justice Saliann Scarpulla says the funds did eventually reach charity organizations supporting veterans.

"The Trump Foundation has shut down... let me guess its just another coordinated attack liberals to discredit Trump

[scottw]

schiff should be in jail

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Why is asking for an investigation into Biden corruption a personal value for Trump?

What Trump required was a public announcement that there would be an investigation into Biden and Burisma. Not an investigation but merely an announcement, far more valuable than an unannounced investigation.
Sort of like the investigations in the last presidential election that were and were not announced.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What Trump required was a public announcement that there would be an investigation into Biden and Burisma. Not an investigation but merely an announcement, far more valuable than an unannounced investigation.
Sort of like the investigations in the last presidential election that were and were not announced.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Oh, so he didn't want an investigation. (Maybe Rudy didn't get the message.) (And the transcript of the phone call wasn't really Trump talking when it was asked if Zelensky could investigate corruption and also look into the Biden thing.) And the Ukraine President announcing that his justice dept. was going to investigate corruption into the Burisma thing was supposed to be very valuable to Trump's campaign (did he specifically ask that the announcement would mention the Bidens?) and would somehow be interfering with our election. And did Trump assume that there would be no investigation, just an announcement?

[Pete F.]

If the Dems argument was that
“We picked this case out of the several Trump was investigating”, it would be purely political.
But this administration has investigated almost no corruption, reduced anti corruption programs and then sent Colludy and crew to do a back channel investigation.
With the best investigative agencies in the world at hand, he sets up his own. And all he is interested in concerns his political adversaries
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

you are on the wrong side of history pete...

it's not going well for the democrats corrupt, collusive scam....

Oops! Adam Schiff’s star witness may have lied under oath -- not a good look for public testimony slated next week in the "impeachment inquiry." Last night, Tucker Carlson revealed that his show had received exclusive access to an email from the personal account of former Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch that contradicts testimony she offered under oath. The fired former ambassador who disagrees with Trump administration policy is a key witness for Adam Schiff’s impeachment efforts.

[Pete F.]

It wasn’t a “shadow foreign policy”: It was a use & abuse of access to foreign leaders, official acts & public officials, for personal political gain. That’s not conducting US foreign policy, that’s corruptly executing a political strategy for a candidate.
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[scottw]

also heard she was dating hunter biden...

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

It wasn’t a “shadow foreign policy”: It was a use & abuse of access to foreign leaders, official acts & public officials, for personal political gain. That’s not conducting US foreign policy, that’s corruptly executing a political strategy for a candidate.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

trump was seeking the truth which is a real problem for these corrupt democrats and deep state hacks

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Trump Must Pay $2 Million Over Misuse Of Foundation Funds

the judgement, that money "was used for Mr. Trump's political campaign and disbursed by Mr. Trump's campaign staff, rather than by the Foundation," which is unlawful. However, Justice Saliann Scarpulla says the funds did eventually reach charity organizations supporting veterans.

"The Trump Foundation has shut down... let me guess its just another coordinated attack liberals to discredit Trump

Just another Trump con, used it for making it appear he was helping veterans, while using the money for his campaign expenses, fools fooled by a fool.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

you are on the wrong side of history pete...

it's not going well for the democrats corrupt, collusive scam....

Oops! Adam Schiff’s star witness may have lied under oath -- not a good look for public testimony slated next week in the "impeachment inquiry." Last night, Tucker Carlson revealed that his show had received exclusive access to an email from the personal account of former Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch that contradicts testimony she offered under oath. The fired former ambassador who disagrees with Trump administration policy is a key witness for Adam Schiff’s impeachment efforts.

Sure looks like she lied under oath about contacting the democrats. Again, that doesn't necessarily mean that her testimony is false, but it's one more suspicious event in a growing pile.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by scottw

you are on the wrong side of history pete...

it's not going well for the democrats corrupt, collusive scam....

Oops! Adam Schiff’s star witness may have lied under oath -- not a good look for public testimony slated next week in the "impeachment inquiry." Last night, Tucker Carlson revealed that his show had received exclusive access to an email from the personal account of former Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch that contradicts testimony she offered under oath. The fired former ambassador who disagrees with Trump administration policy is a key witness for Adam Schiff’s impeachment efforts.

🍔
🍑🤡
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Just another Trump con, used it for making it appear he was helping veterans, while using the money for his campaign expenses, fools fooled by a fool.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Trump has done more for our veterans than any president in my lifetime.
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[Got Stripers]

Didn’t say he hasn’t done some good as he should as president, but that specific “charitable” organization was a sham and now he has to pay the price.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

There is way more credible evidence that Rep. Gym Jordan covered up a sexual abuse scandal at Ohio State than there is evidence Joe Biden did anything wrong related to Ukraine.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Didn’t say he hasn’t done some good as he should as president, but that specific “charitable” organization was a sham and now he has to pay the price.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

he should get don junior a no-show job with burisma to raise the money to pay the fine

[spence]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What Trump required was a public announcement that there would be an investigation into Biden and Burisma. Not an investigation but merely an announcement, far more valuable than an unannounced investigation.
Sort of like the investigations in the last presidential election that were and were not announced.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

He’s just trolling you
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

There is way more credible evidence that Rep. Gym Jordan covered up a sexual abuse scandal at Ohio State than there is evidence Joe Biden did anything wrong related to Ukraine.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

so whataboutism is ok when you do
it, but not when anyone else does it?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by scottw

he should get don junior a no-show job with burisma to raise the money to pay the fine

Boy you guys are stuck solidly in the way back machine, it's a constant stream of whataboutism.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

so whataboutism is ok when you do
it, but not when anyone else does it?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Sure,

(1) EXTORTING Ukraine: “No defense aid unless you smear Biden & clear Putin re 2016”

AND

(2) soliciting a BRIBE from Ukraine: “If you help me win 2020, I’ll help you defend your country against Russia.”

[Sea Dangles]

Lunch is served

🍔👍🏿
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Sure,

(1) EXTORTING Ukraine: “No defense aid unless you smear Biden & clear Putin re 2016”

AND

(2) soliciting a BRIBE from Ukraine: “If you help me win 2020, I’ll help you defend your country against Russia.”

biden didn’t extort Ukraine?
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

biden didn’t extort Ukraine?
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He did,but two wrongs don’t make a right.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Sure,

(1) EXTORTING Ukraine: “No defense aid unless you smear Biden & clear Putin re 2016”

AND

(2) soliciting a BRIBE from Ukraine: “If you help me win 2020, I’ll help you defend your country against Russia.”

now you sound exactly like that idiot schiff

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

biden didn’t extort Ukraine?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

No, extortion is a crime Jim.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

No, extortion is a crime Jim.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Well I'm not a lawyer, but I did hear Biden brag that he threatened to withhold monetary aid to Ukraine, unless they did what he wanted. I hear a lot of people saying Trump should be impeached for essentially doing the same thing. Of course, that's after years of them saying he should be impeached just because they didn't like him, so the threshold is somewhat nebulous and flexible, for what constitutes an impeachable offense. Apparently it all depends on whose ox is getting gored.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Well I'm not a lawyer, but I did hear Biden brag that he threatened to withhold monetary aid to Ukraine, unless they did what he (and the US state department, Congress, the IMF, the EU etc.) wanted. I hear a lot of people saying Trump should be impeached for essentially doing the same thing. Of course, that's after years of them saying he should be impeached just because they didn't like him, so the threshold is somewhat nebulous and flexible, for what constitutes an impeachable offense. Apparently it all depends on whose ox is getting gored.

Not the same thing at all.
Asking a foreign country to investigate an American, when there is no domestic criminal investigation into him and no predicate is a non-starter.
We have domestic law enforcement avenues for that.
If Floridaman really wanted to root out corruption there are US government processes to do that.

State Department bureau—the Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement (INL)—focused on law enforcement efforts overseas, including investigating corruption. For 2020 the Trump administration proposed cutting the budget for this by 40%, what does that say about the concern with corruption?

Alert the Ukraine ambassador, and let him deal with it
Ambassadors can’t interfere in a corruption investigation or direct that one be opened, but they can pass information along to experts at the embassy—including INL experts and Department of Justice personnel.

Request cooperation (officially)
If there were an actual U.S. government investigation into alleged criminal activity by Americans in Ukraine, or foreigners suspected of violating U.S. laws, a request for cooperation could have been made through a formal process that’s run by DOJ’s Office of International Affairs. Once MLAT requests are vetted by the DOJ, they are transmitted to a foreign country’s “central authority”—in this case, Ukraine's Ministry of Justice. If granted in the foreign country, this arrangement could allow the DOJ to obtain documents, locate people, take testimony, request searches and seizures, freeze assets and more. If the United States were actually pursuing criminal investigations into corruption in Ukraine, U.S. officials would have made a request under our MLAT for cooperation.

So was Trump's goal to investigate corruption and as Lindsey Graham suggests he is either too incompetent or too stupid to do it correctly or was his goal to get dirt on Biden and as Putin and Orban suggested to him, prove that Ukraine, not Russia was responsible for interference in the 2016 election.
Either way he is unfit for office.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Not the same thing at all.
Asking a foreign country to investigate an American, when there is no domestic criminal investigation into him and no predicate is a non-starter.
We have domestic law enforcement avenues for that.
If Floridaman really wanted to root out corruption there are US government processes to do that.

State Department bureau—the Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement (INL)—focused on law enforcement efforts overseas, including investigating corruption. For 2020 the Trump administration proposed cutting the budget for this by 40%, what does that say about the concern with corruption?

Alert the Ukraine ambassador, and let him deal with it
Ambassadors can’t interfere in a corruption investigation or direct that one be opened, but they can pass information along to experts at the embassy—including INL experts and Department of Justice personnel.

Request cooperation (officially)
If there were an actual U.S. government investigation into alleged criminal activity by Americans in Ukraine, or foreigners suspected of violating U.S. laws, a request for cooperation could have been made through a formal process that’s run by DOJ’s Office of International Affairs. Once MLAT requests are vetted by the DOJ, they are transmitted to a foreign country’s “central authority”—in this case, Ukraine's Ministry of Justice. If granted in the foreign country, this arrangement could allow the DOJ to obtain documents, locate people, take testimony, request searches and seizures, freeze assets and more. If the United States were actually pursuing criminal investigations into corruption in Ukraine, U.S. officials would have made a request under our MLAT for cooperation.

So was Trump's goal to investigate corruption and as Lindsey Graham suggests he is either too incompetent or too stupid to do it correctly or was his goal to get dirt on Biden and as Putin and Orban suggested to him, prove that Ukraine, not Russia was responsible for interference in the 2016 election.
Either way he is unfit for office.

so if state department also wanted ukraine to investigate biden, then what trump did was he OK to you? have you taken a poll of the state department to get their opinion in this?

you’ll say anything to make the case.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you’ll say anything to make the case.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

it's hot in pete's bunker