Critical Race Theory

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I would be upset if someone as myopic as the teacher you refer to was actually allowed to teach history.

Slavery has been a part of the recorded world longer than it not being part of it. It's even still part of the world that is older than "America."

So, by this teacher's reasoning, the whole world of human nations must have been "born" as much in chains as in freedom. The whole world must need CRT.

The amalgamation of what was referred to as America was not a separate sovereign nation during most of the 400 years. And since it became a sovereign republic, slavery was only part of the republic for 89 of it's 245 years, so it has been a part of the U.S. far less than when it wasn't a part of the U.S..

So, if this more than less formula is a model for needing CRT, maybe we are less in need of CRT than most. If in need at all. If CRT can actually and satisfactorily solve racial inequity without creating a worse systemic monster. In my opinion, it is the old authoritarian, actually dictatorial, way of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Easy enough to change that to “on this continent.” Unless you claim that with the Declaration of Independence we were miraculously reborn with blank minds.
We are not dealing with the rest of the world. Aren’t you the guy who says we should let the rest of the world take care of itself, that we shouldn’t be the world’s policeman.
Slavery was so much a part of this country that 750,000 Americans died in a fight over it 150 years ago, then we had the 14th, 15th and 24th amendments reconstruction, Jim Crow which lasted thru WW2
Then the civil rights act of 1957, 64, 68, 91
But pay no attention to any of that, everything in America is and has always been perfect.
Because the conservative position is that all criticism or change is bad. Except climate change, which doesn't exist.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Easy enough to change that to “on this continent.”

Slavery existed on this continent before Columbus.
And, on this continent, several Blacks owned slaves.

Unless you claim that with the Declaration of Independence we were miraculously reborn with blank minds.

It wasn't miraculous, nor was it rebirth. It was a birth delivered in blood and conceived not by blank minds, but by brave men with minds formed through the rare experience of actual freedom from the grips of tyrannical government. They did not believe that what they created was perfect. But more perfect than before and a blueprint for becoming more so.

We are not dealing with the rest of the world. Aren’t you the guy who says we should let the rest of the world take care of itself, that we shouldn’t be the world’s policeman.

Analysis and policing are not the same. Comparative analysis is highly instructive. The the larger and more universal the scope, the greater the reliability of the results. Unless you prefer little minds trapped in provincial tunnel vision.

Slavery was so much a part of this country that 750,000 Americans died in a fight over it 150 years ago, then we had the 14th, 15th and 24th amendments reconstruction, Jim Crow which lasted thru WW2
Then the civil rights act of 1957, 64, 68, 91

I don't know why you think that I, nor anyone I know, doesn't know all that.

But pay no attention to any of that, everything in America is and has always been perfect.

Nor do I know why you think I or anyone I know believes that. The Founders certainly didn't. They instituted a government that would give us a chance to evolve toward that elusive but impossible perfection. But, if we are to believe what CRT tells us, because they were all "white" their Constitution is riddled with "whiteness" and therefor systemically racist.

Because the conservative position is that all criticism or change is bad. Except climate change, which doesn't exist.
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Since you ask me to pay no attention because of what you claim is the conservative position (I assume you think I am a "conservative"), I am flummoxed at how you arrive at such proclamations about me. I don't think all criticism is bad. I do a lot of criticism. As I'm sure those who you point to as "conservative" do as well. And it certainly is no position that I nor any Republicans I know hold that all change is bad. I'm sure that most of us, including you, believe that some changes can be bad.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Since you ask me to pay no attention because of what you claim is the conservative position (I assume you think I am a "conservative"), I am flummoxed at how you arrive at such proclamations about me. I don't think all criticism is bad. I do a lot of criticism. As I'm sure those who you point to as "conservative" do as well. And it certainly is no position that I nor any Republicans I know hold that all change is bad. I'm sure that most of us, including you, believe that some changes can be bad.

So?
Lots of verbal diarrhea, claiming that anyone looking at our history thru a unfiltered lense will do just what?
Or is it that because some people hold the cards they should continue to decide what filters are acceptable?
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

So?

??

Lots of verbal diarrhea, claiming that anyone looking at our history thru a unfiltered lense will do just what?

???

Or is it that because some people hold the cards they should continue to decide what filters are acceptable?
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???? Needs some filters. Makes no sense. Maybe you should decide to change your filters.

[Pete F.]

Do conservatives not spend quality time with their kids? Does the party of family values not have values to impart to their kids?
I never worried my kid was going to turn out to be a bigot after they see a bigot on TV or read about one in a book. Nor did I think they would catch gay from someone.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I never worried my kid was going to turn out to be a bigot after they see a bigot on TV or read about one in a book. Nor did I think they would catch gay from someone.

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me neither X 3....

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Do conservatives not spend quality time with their kids? Does the party of family values not have values to impart to their kids?
I never worried my kid was going to turn out to be a bigot after they see a bigot on TV or read about one in a book. Nor did I think they would catch gay from someone.
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So parents with strong family values who spend quality time with their kids should not concern themselves with what schools teach their children? Nor should they be concerned about what is taught to the children of parents who don't spend quality time with them? Should they not be concerned and active in the politics of their community and of their country? Should they feel satisfied that their home life is sufficient to assure that their children will not be corrupted and damaged by what happens outside of their home?

Perhaps you shouldn't be so vociferously concerned with what goes on outside of your perfect home. Or be so insistent that things like the messaging of CRT should be introduced in our educational institutions. It's all good. Don't be afraid. Teaching children good traditional American "conservative" values (maybe even some intelligent design) won't hurt them. After all, you've inoculated yours against such trash with quality time in your perfect home.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

So parents with strong family values who spend quality time with their kids should not concern themselves with what schools teach their children? Nor should they be concerned about what is taught to the children of parents who don't spend quality time with them? Should they not be concerned and active in the politics of their community and of their country? Should they feel satisfied that their home life is sufficient to assure that their children will not be corrupted and damaged by what happens outside of their home?

Perhaps you shouldn't be so vociferously concerned with what goes on outside of your perfect home. Or be so insistent that things like the messaging of CRT should be introduced in our educational institutions. It's all good. Don't be afraid. Teaching children good traditional American "conservative" values (maybe even some intelligent design) won't hurt them. After all, you've inoculated yours against such trash with quality time in your perfect home.

Proposed list of books to be banned, children will be safe then
The Base should be happy

https://static.texastribune.org/medi...625.1635513476
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Proposed list of books to be banned, children will be safe then
The Base should be happy

https://static.texastribune.org/medi...625.1635513476
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But you should be happy too. Your children are immune to such stuff. You spend quality time with them.

[detbuch]

The great gaslighting is that Critical Race Theory is not being "taught" in the schools. The truth is that it is not being taught as a subject, rather it is being practiced in the schools. It is being done, brought to fruition, in the schools--critical race "praxis" is in our schools. This is part two, the final part, of the video in post 13:

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by detbuch

The great gaslighting is that Critical Race Theory is not being "taught" in the schools. The truth is that it is not being taught as a subject, rather it is being practiced in the schools. It is being done, brought to fruition, in the schools--critical race "praxis" is in our schools. This is part two, the final part, of the video in post 13:

liberals say “it’s not taught” because there’s no class called CRT. but i can teach marxism without there being a class explicitly called marxism. it’s nonsense.
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[Pete F.]

You can also teach white supremacy without calling it that.

Overt, ugly acts of bigotry attract the most attention, the most potent component of racism is "positioning the bigot as the actual victim."

"So the gay do not simply want to marry, they want to convert our children into sin," he wrote. "The Jews do not merely want to be left in peace, they actually are plotting world take-over. And the blacks are not actually victims of American power, but beneficiaries of the war against hard-working whites. This is a respectable, more sensible, bigotry, one that does not seek to name-call, preferring instead 'to' change the subject and strawman."

The recent debate over CRT is the latest variation of frame-flipping. But conservatives have used similar tactics to thwart the feminist movement and to notch victories in the culture wars on American campuses.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You can also teach white supremacy without calling it that.

Overt, ugly acts of bigotry attract the most attention, the most potent component of racism is "positioning the bigot as the actual victim."

"So the gay do not simply want to marry, they want to convert our children into sin," he wrote. "The Jews do not merely want to be left in peace, they actually are plotting world take-over. And the blacks are not actually victims of American power, but beneficiaries of the war against hard-working whites. This is a respectable, more sensible, bigotry, one that does not seek to name-call, preferring instead 'to' change the subject and strawman."

The recent debate over CRT is the latest variation of frame-flipping. But conservatives have used similar tactics to thwart the feminist movement and to notch victories in the culture wars on American campuses.
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yes pete, the public schools are really infested with maga right wingers.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

yes pete, the public schools are really infested with maga right wingers.
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Not right now they aren’t that’s the plan just ask the Moms of Liberty

The right has been waging war against intellectuals or in the MAGA world that’s anyone with a Brain .

Even in the red of red states they think their own teachers and school boards .. who were born and raised in their communities are the enemy .. that’s some serious brainwashing but then again these same people think Trump won the deep state is real .
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Not right now they aren’t that’s the plan just ask the Moms of Liberty

The right has been waging war against intellectuals or in the MAGA world that’s anyone with a Brain .

Even in the red of red states they think their own teachers and school boards .. who were born and raised in their communities are the enemy .. that’s some serious brainwashing but then again these same people think Trump won the deep state is real .
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

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I’ve been wondering about this Tin Hat fascination among some posters, has it actually kept you out of the rubber room?
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

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Let me guess You have never heard of mom’s of liberty.or their mission

Informed as ever Lol
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Not right now they aren’t that’s the plan just ask the Moms of Liberty

The right has been waging war against intellectuals or in the MAGA world that’s anyone with a Brain .

Even in the red of red states they think their own teachers and school boards .. who were born and raised in their communities are the enemy .. that’s some serious brainwashing but then again these same people think Trump won the deep state is real .
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you’re not cuckoo.

do you see a difference between not wanting radical liberalism taught, and wanting radical conservatism taught?
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you’re not cuckoo.

do you see a difference between not wanting radical liberalism taught, and wanting radical conservatism taught?
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Neither is being taught Iam just sane enough to understand that.

And clearly see what Moms of liberty agenda is

Moms for Liberty is dedicated to fighting for the survival of America by unifying, educating and empowering parents to defend their parental rights at all levels of government.


Fighting for the survival of America
Sounds radical to me
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You can also teach white supremacy without calling it that.

Tell us specifically how white supremacy is being taught in our public schools.

Overt, ugly acts of bigotry attract the most attention, the most potent component of racism is "positioning the bigot as the actual victim."

A most potent component of gaslighting, mischaracterizing, and outright lying is to call things what they are not. "Racist" and "racism" are powerful examples of words that are misused in order to cow the accused into silence or acquiescence.

"So the gay do not simply want to marry, they want to convert our children into sin," he wrote. "The Jews do not merely want to be left in peace, they actually are plotting world take-over. And the blacks are not actually victims of American power, but beneficiaries of the war against hard-working whites. This is a respectable, more sensible, bigotry, one that does not seek to name-call, preferring instead 'to' change the subject and strawman."

Imputing such notions to masses of people that don't have them is a most potent component of gaslighting those masses into compliance.

The recent debate over CRT is the latest variation of frame-flipping. But conservatives have used similar tactics to thwart the feminist movement and to notch victories in the culture wars on American campuses.
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CRT is a variation of frame-flipping.

And feminists do not all agree with each other, and some of the older advocates disagree with the rhetoric of new ones. Nor are most women feminists. Which is probably the most potent reason why feminists are thwarted.

Group think, in general, is a potent way to influence, and is more potent when various groups coalesce to create dominant cultures that clash with the prevailing one. The various anti "white supremacy" (especially white male supremacy) groups that have joined together have predominantly changed the culture in American education, especially university and college education, in order to support and teach their political and philosophical views. They have to a great degree flipped the American academic culture.

That cultural flip is all about power, not a debate or means to arrive at a universal truth. Power is the most potent component of the Post-Modern philosophy that fundamentally drives the Neo-Marxist component of most current leftist groups that are attempting to impose their will on the foundational components of what we refer to as Western Civilization--the foundation that spurred the American Revolution.

Western Civilization promotes universal truths that apply to every individual. Unfortunately, "white" people supposedly were who nurtured and crafted this civilization. So, therefore, it is a creation in the interests of white people. Ergo, it oppresses the wills and desires of non-"whites."

Specifically, the American foundation, is accused of being a house of white cards. Non-whites are not allowed to join the game. Unless, of course, they show abaisance, bow and scrape, and do the white man's will, act white, do what is required by whites to succeed in a white world.

So, therefore within the "white" created structure which assures supreme "white" racial power, all whites are inherently "racist." And, of course, such a thing is fundamentally wrong and contemptible. Not sure why if there are no universal truths and the end game is power.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

CRT is a variation of frame-flipping.

And feminists do not all agree with each other, and some of the older advocates disagree with the rhetoric of new ones. Nor are most women feminists. Which is probably the most potent reason why feminists are thwarted.

Group think, in general, is a potent way to influence, and is more potent when various groups coalesce to create dominant cultures that clash with the prevailing one. The various anti "white supremacy" (especially white male supremacy) groups that have joined together have predominantly changed the culture in American education, especially university and college education, in order to support and teach their political and philosophical views. They have to a great degree flipped the American academic culture.

That cultural flip is all about power, not a debate or means to arrive at a universal truth. Power is the most potent component of the Post-Modern philosophy that fundamentally drives the Neo-Marxist component of most current leftist groups that are attempting to impose their will on the foundational components of what we refer to as Western Civilization--the foundation that spurred the American Revolution.

Western Civilization promotes universal truths that apply to every individual. Unfortunately, "white" people supposedly were who nurtured and crafted this civilization. So, therefore, it is a creation in the interests of white people. Ergo, it oppresses the wills and desires of non-"whites."

Specifically, the American foundation, is accused of being a house of white cards. Non-whites are not allowed to join the game. Unless, of course, they show abaisance, bow and scrape, and do the white man's will, act white, do what is required by whites to succeed in a white world.

So, therefore within the "white" created structure which assures supreme "white" racial power, all whites are inherently "racist." And, of course, such a thing is fundamentally wrong and contemptible. Not sure why if there are no universal truths and the end game is power.

As I’ve said many times

Poor victim
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

As I’ve said many times

Poor victim
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Yes, you've said or repeated many ambiguous, misleading, inconsistent, contradictory, unclear, and incoherent or even lying things many times. It may be that you lack a consistent core belief or vision. Perhaps you have fallen victim to the Post-Modern abyss void of any consistent, foundational meaning other than gaining and holding power. Which may lead you into seeing human society as a conflict between oppressors and oppressed--the rich fat cats and the poor victims. The current iteration being between the notion of a predatory "white supremacist" against everyone else.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Yes, you've said or repeated many ambiguous, misleading, inconsistent, contradictory, unclear, and incoherent or even lying things many times. It may be that you lack a consistent core belief or vision. Perhaps you have fallen victim to the Post-Modern abyss void of any consistent, foundational meaning other than gaining and holding power. Which may lead you into seeing human society as a conflict between oppressors and oppressed--the rich fat cats and the poor victims. The current iteration being between the notion of a predatory "white supremacist" against everyone else.

Perhaps you should consider that “maybe” you are wrong.

That may be why your views are held by a small minority of Americans.

Just remember which side thinks the other has the Jewish Space Laser, that Trump won and if it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Perhaps you should consider that “maybe” you are wrong.

That may be why your views are held by a small minority of Americans.

Just remember which side thinks the other has the Jewish Space Laser, that Trump won and if it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.
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I do consider that I might be wrong. I consider that every time I post something. I actually would appreciate you showing me why I am wrong. That would be actual, constructive, dialog. That would be the best purpose of a forum.

How and why am I wrong?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I do consider that I might be wrong. I consider that every time I post something. I actually would appreciate you showing me why I am wrong. That would be actual, constructive, dialog. That would be the best purpose of a forum.

How and why am I wrong?

Because you fall for the claim that the existence of structural racism means that you are a racist if you are white.

Democracy is not in danger because we're polarized. We're polarized because it's a strategy to make it more difficult to see where the real danger to democracy comes from.

From the Kochs to the Heritage Foundation to the GOP, the "true aim" has been to kneecap liberal democracy in order to unshackle concentrated wealth. The strategy is to sow racial and social strife. The goal, though, is rule by the rich.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Because you fall for the claim that the existence of structural racism means that you are a racist if you are white.

Claiming that we are under a system of white privilege is claiming that whites are racist unless they renounce their privilege. Which would require that whites abandon those things that actuate their privilege. Which would amount to abandoning notions such as the so-called work ethic, the nuclear family, and rigorous, meaningful education. Whites who practice the things that actuate their privilege, are far more likely to "succeed" in our current "system." Blacks who practice those things are also far more likely to succeed than Blacks or whites who don't.

But, it is claimed by many, if not most, CRTers, blacks who engage in "whiteness," who act white, are not authentic and are in bondage to the white privilege system--they participate in a soft slavery that supports that system.

Democracy is not in danger because we're polarized. We're polarized because it's a strategy to make it more difficult to see where the real danger to democracy comes from.

From the Kochs to the Heritage Foundation to the GOP, the "true aim" has been to kneecap liberal democracy in order to unshackle concentrated wealth. The strategy is to sow racial and social strife. The goal, though, is rule by the rich.
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The Democrats are also in on this strategy of concentrated wealth and sowing racial strife--in my estimation, even more so. Which is why I have been saying that political Progressivism is actually a regression to the ancient rule by some elite, whether it be monarchy, oligarchy, dictatorship . . . or any form of unchecked central authority. And why I have said that our Constitution is still a new form of "rule" that makes individual freedom more possible within a functioning organized society. Anarchism would be freer, but humanity doesn't yet seem suited to such ultimate freedom.

[Pete F.]

More critical race theory for you

One eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the Union, but localized in the Southern half part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was, somehow, the cause of the war. To strengthen, perpetuate, and extend this interest was the object for which the insurgents would rend the Union, even by war; while the government claimed no right to do more than to restrict the territorial enlargement of it. Neither party expected for the war, the magnitude, or the duration, which it has already attained. Neither anticipated that the cause of the conflict might cease with, or even before, the conflict itself should cease. Each looked for an easier triumph, and a result less fundamental and astounding. Both read the same Bible, and pray to the same God; and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces; but let us judge not that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered; that of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. "Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!" If we shall suppose that American Slavery is one of those offences which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South, this terrible war, as the woe due to those by whom the offence came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope -- fervently do we pray -- that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said f[our] three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord, are true and righteous altogether"
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

More critical race theory for you

One eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the Union, but localized in the Southern half part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was, somehow, the cause of the war. To strengthen, perpetuate, and extend this interest was the object for which the insurgents would rend the Union, even by war; while the government claimed no right to do more than to restrict the territorial enlargement of it. Neither party expected for the war, the magnitude, or the duration, which it has already attained. Neither anticipated that the cause of the conflict might cease with, or even before, the conflict itself should cease. Each looked for an easier triumph, and a result less fundamental and astounding. Both read the same Bible, and pray to the same God; and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces; but let us judge not that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered; that of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. "Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!" If we shall suppose that American Slavery is one of those offences which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South, this terrible war, as the woe due to those by whom the offence came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope -- fervently do we pray -- that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said f[our] three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord, are true and righteous altogether"
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So now you're saying that Abraham Lincoln was an adherent of Critical Race Theory? And that CRT believes in the Judgment of God?

[scottw]

honey badger mom..."get a therapist, don't use my kids"

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

honey badger mom..."get a therapist, don't use my kids"

Cuz she’s blacked and thinks CRT it’s being taught ? It is? Or she’s against BLM is That’s why you posted it… funny You never heard of the moms of liberty but you found this clip, . odd

But not really Minnesota's Black Conservatives: The Exodus Movement. “I’m done with the Left. They’ve hurt black America. They’ve destroyed it.”

Conservatives and their One black friend …. Presented as see 99% of blacks are lying