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Old 09-15-2022, 02:15 PM   #31
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Well, you said it was "smart" when someone else posted that covoid deaths are a reason why there are a huge number of unfilled jobs. I don't see data to support that, and the demographics of covid deaths suggest that covid deaths aren't likely a big reason why. Getting people addicted to generous unemployment benefits may have been a larger contributor. But I doubt you care bout that either, because it doesn't serve liberalism.
I always said you have horrible reading comprehension.
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Old 09-15-2022, 02:20 PM   #32
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1.05 million officially * 30% = 315,000 people.
Plus all the other factors listed, no one said it was the ONLY factor, it was A factor.
obviously a cause. Who knows to what degree.

Bryan, do you think itís fair that southern border states have to bear the burden caused by people in DC choosing not to secure the border? isnt border security a national issue? why is it unfair for TX and AZ to expect that all 50 states take a proportionate share of illegals? i really donít see what thatís not fair and logical.

i respect what you say and is he curious to see your take on that one aspect of this. Do border states have all the responsibility due to their bad luck of being in the border? Or do all 50 states share the responsibility?
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Old 09-15-2022, 02:21 PM   #33
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I always said you have horrible reading comprehension.
ok.

any chance you can answer this - do southern border states deserve to shoulder this burden, or do all 50 states have a responsibility to deal with it? Why is it unfair for southern states to expect that each state take a proportionate share of these immigrants? Why do southern states deserve this burden?
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Old 09-15-2022, 02:24 PM   #34
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Well, you said it was "smart" when someone else posted that covoid deaths are a reason why there are a huge number of unfilled jobs. That is not what I meant.
I don't see data to support that, and the demographics of covid deaths suggest that covid deaths aren't likely a big reason why. Getting people addicted to generous unemployment benefits may have been a larger contributor. But I doubt you care bout that either, because it doesn't serve liberalism.How would you know what I care about. You sound like an idiot when you post things like that.
And you are wrong about unemployment benefits. It just caused pain to those receiving the benefits - which given the conserv. states track record appears to be what was intended.

State governors, largely Republicans, said the federal funds were keeping recipients from looking for jobs, making it harder for businesses to hire and holding back the economic recovery.

However, Census Bureau data suggests recipients didnít rush to find jobs in the weeks following the first batch of state withdrawals, according to Arindrajit Dube, an economics professor at the University of Massachusetts Amherst.

Specifically, the share of adults receiving unemployment benefits fell sharply (by 2.2 percentage points) in the dozen states that cut federal funding on June 12 or 19, according to Dube. That translates to a 60% reduction in unemployment rolls in those states, he said.

But there wasnít a corresponding increase in employment among this group ó in fact, the share of adults with a job fell by 1.4 percentage points over the same period, according to Dube. (Employment rose by 0.2 percentage points in states that didnít end the pandemic benefits.)

Together, the data shows there wasnít an immediate job boost following the cuts, Dube said.
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Old 09-15-2022, 02:54 PM   #35
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i respect what you say and is he curious to see your take on that one aspect of this. Do border states have all the responsibility due to their bad luck of being in the border? Or do all 50 states share the responsibility?
Yes, they do share responsibility. There is no easy fix. Busing them (or flying) for a political stunt to various liberal states with no infrastructure or plan is not the answer, however.

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Old 09-15-2022, 03:10 PM   #36
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Yes, they do share responsibility. There is no easy fix. Busing them (or flying) for a political stunt to various liberal states with no infrastructure or plan is not the answer, however.
they share responsibility? democrats are going berserk that a tiny tiny number were sent to blue states

there’s an extremely easy fix. Build a wall. China pulled it off with the Great Wall in 200 BC. That wall is 13,000 miles long. . The mexican border is around 2,000 miles.

You say we should all pitch in, yet you say it’s a political stunt when border states asks other states to ante up. Which is it?

If border states encounter 2 million immigrants this year ( and i think it’s projected to be higher than that for the first time), why not send them proportionately to all 50 states?

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Old 09-15-2022, 03:24 PM   #37
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they share responsibility? democrats are going berserk that arenít number weíre sent to blue states

thereís an extremely easy fix. Build a wall. China pulled it off with the Great Wall in 200 BC. That wall is 13,000 miles long. . The mexican border is around 2,000 miles.

You say we should all pitch in, yet you say itís a political stunt when border states asks other states to ante up. Which is it?

If border states encounter 2 million immigrants this year ( and i think itís projected to be higher than that for the first time), why not send them proportionately to all 50 states?
How many of those 2 million are turned back vs let in?

Also, this is through 2019, they do end up in all 50 states.
From the MPI; these are the top 10 states with 'unauthorized immigrants by share.
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Old 09-15-2022, 03:31 PM   #38
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ok.

any chance you can answer this - do southern border states deserve to shoulder this burden, or do all 50 states have a responsibility to deal with it? Why is it unfair for southern states to expect that each state take a proportionate share of these immigrants? Why do southern states deserve this burden?
All 50 states do.

But what was done w/MV was a stunt (as shown by the presence of the videographer). It was just meant to cause pain to those 50 people who were sent and a small island. But Obama has a house there so lets cause some pain to people.
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Old 09-15-2022, 03:35 PM   #39
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I never thought America would regress to a time when treating minorities inhumanely increased a politicianís popularity. Such cruelty has never been seen before. Itís outrageous.

Öoh wait, white politicians in America have been doing that for centuries.
Sorry if that makes you feel guilty
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Old 09-15-2022, 04:42 PM   #40
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they share responsibility? democrats are going berserk that a tiny tiny number were sent to blue states

thereís an extremely easy fix. Build a wall. China pulled it off with the Great Wall in 200 BC. That wall is 13,000 miles long. . The mexican border is around 2,000 miles.

You say we should all pitch in, yet you say itís a political stunt when border states asks other states to ante up. Which is it?

If border states encounter 2 million immigrants this year ( and i think itís projected to be higher than that for the first time), why not send them proportionately to all 50 states?
Itís to bad we couldnít get a president elected who promised to build it and if that failed his supporters would donate the money to get it built! Oh wait I think that sort of happened, but crimes got in the way.
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Old 09-15-2022, 06:24 PM   #41
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How about way more people crossing, way more fentanyl overdoses killing Americans?

You aren't aware of anything different at the border today, compared to 2 years ago, seriously?
Jim your being suckered again by your conservatives sources

Currently, China remains the primary source of fentanyl and fentanyl-related substances trafficked through international mail and express consignment operations environment, as well as the main source for all fentanyl-related substances trafficked into the United States. Seizures of fentanyl sourced from China

Not Mexico

And how about some personal responsibility donít take illegal drugs and maybe you wonít die from a Fentanyl overdose

So you canít answer what changed via physical and policy on the border .. the only thing that change is the volume of people coming to the US for a better life.. not sure why that offends people


Itís funny Marthaís Vineyard depends on immigration to run all the summer business via

H-2A and H-2B visas are for seasonal, or peak load, temporary workers in an agriculture (H-2A) or non-agricultural (H-2B) setting. Generally, these do not extend beyond a year.

Which Trump and Republicans supported Trump administration nearly doubles H-2B guest visa program, which brings many Mexican workers
In 2019

Then Trump signs order freezing visas for foreign workers through the end of the year in 2020


Like I said Republicans have ZERO intentions of trying to fix the border issue .. they think it can be closed Itís the same simple fantasy that having more drilling permits will lower gas prices

The Republican base is so uninformed. Itís amazing and Republicans leaders use it to their advantage daily
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Old 09-15-2022, 06:44 PM   #42
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Billions in funding for the border over the years. Trump literally built parts of his "wall" with funding for DoD programs and bragged the border was secured.

Did the wall come down? Did the border patrol stop operating?
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Old 09-15-2022, 06:54 PM   #43
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I think it's worth noting that Ron DeSantis himself was in Nantucket just last month s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g up to private equity for campaign contributions. Mr. 'Stick it to the Blue States' has no problem with MA when it suits his greed. As odious a man as you will ever find.
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Old 09-15-2022, 08:27 PM   #44
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Jim your being suckered again by your conservatives sources

Currently, China remains the primary source of fentanyl and fentanyl-related substances trafficked through international mail and express consignment operations environment, as well as the main source for all fentanyl-related substances trafficked into the United States. Seizures of fentanyl sourced from China

Not Mexico

And how about some personal responsibility donít take illegal drugs and maybe you wonít die from a Fentanyl overdose

So you canít answer what changed via physical and policy on the border .. the only thing that change is the volume of people coming to the US for a better life.. not sure why that offends people


Itís funny Marthaís Vineyard depends on immigration to run all the summer business via

H-2A and H-2B visas are for seasonal, or peak load, temporary workers in an agriculture (H-2A) or non-agricultural (H-2B) setting. Generally, these do not extend beyond a year.

Which Trump and Republicans supported Trump administration nearly doubles H-2B guest visa program, which brings many Mexican workers
In 2019

Then Trump signs order freezing visas for foreign workers through the end of the year in 2020


Like I said Republicans have ZERO intentions of trying to fix the border issue .. they think it can be closed Itís the same simple fantasy that having more drilling permits will lower gas prices

The Republican base is so uninformed. Itís amazing and Republicans leaders use it to their advantage daily
marthaís vineyard depends on legal, temporary immigration.

You see no difference between that and millions and millions of them living here, having lots of kids, requiring immense services

My god.
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Old 09-15-2022, 09:28 PM   #45
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Itís to bad we couldnít get a president elected who promised to build it and if that failed his supporters would donate the money to get it built! Oh wait I think that sort of happened, but crimes got in the way.
true.


iíll ask you, the fourth liberal here, the same question ( the other 3 dodged.)

By what logic should
americans in southern states, bear this burden? By what logic is it unfair to ask all 50 states to take. proportionate share of the illegals?
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Old 09-15-2022, 10:39 PM   #46
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The logic is that under the laws of this federal republic, immigration is the responsibility of the federal government. If youíre not happy with the laws change Congress.

And since federal laws likely were broken, the US Attorney in Massachusetts will be serving grand jury subpoenas no later than next week. DOD IG will commence investigation of use of USAF facilities.
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Old 09-16-2022, 04:50 AM   #47
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true.


iíll ask you, the fourth liberal here, the same question ( the other 3 dodged.)

By what logic should
americans in southern states, bear this burden? By what logic is it unfair to ask all 50 states to take. proportionate share of the illegals?
Jim Southern states do not just bear this burden. Conservatives were complaining about ghost flights the said were secret fly around immigrants in the dark . Which by they way werenít secret

You once again are being fooled by your conservatives mouth pieces

Top 5 states with the biggest immigrant population in order.

California, Texas , New York , Florida , New Jersey

Please do some research and some common sense .. if your on the Mexican border you going to get more immigration its the way itís been since the 1800ís

You want to fix immigration fix central American seeing the USA screwed them up for decades and a more recent view

Ronald Reagan Made Central America a Killing Field
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Old 09-16-2022, 05:06 AM   #48
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Jim Southern states do not just bear this burden. Conservatives were complaining about ghost flights the said were secret fly around immigrants in the dark . Which by they way weren’t secret

You once again are being fooled by your conservatives mouth pieces

Top 5 states with the biggest immigrant population in order.

California, Texas , New York , Florida , New Jersey

Please do some research and some common sense .. if your on the Mexican border you going to get more immigration its the way it’s been since the 18

You want to fix immigration fix central American seeing the USA screwed them up for decades and a more recent view

Ronald Reagan Made Central America a Killing Field
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please post a link showing those are the top 5’states for where illegal immigrants currently are. we’re talking about illegal
immigrants, not legal.

It’s not our job to fix central america. Please post how much money we’ve sent to mexico ans central america over the last 50 years. And we have military in food stamps. I say fix that first. You disagree? Boy is live to see your answer to that.

Yes southern states will get the illegals initially. But why can’t all 50 states take a share of them ? you didn’t answer that. Chicago shipped them off immediately, and martha’s vineyard officials say they’re going to donuts same thing. The DC mayor wants the national guard in there to deal with the few sent from TX. Where’s the love on the left?
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Old 09-16-2022, 06:11 AM   #49
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The difference in Floridaís reaction to people fleeing a socialist government in 1959-66 to people fleeing a socialist government in 2022 is startling. The first group got welcomed with open arms while second has been demeaned and trafficked against their will and knowledge.
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Old 09-16-2022, 06:24 AM   #50
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The difference in Floridaís reaction to people fleeing a socialist government in 1959-66 to people fleeing a socialist government in 2022 is startling. The first group got welcomed with open arms while second has been demeaned and trafficked against their will and knowledge.
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So you criticize FL for not welcoming them, but have nothing to say about Marthaís Vineyard officials saying theyíre going to similarly ship them off. The swells on the vineyard donít want them either, and they currently donít have any. FL has plenty.

Why canít Marthaís Vineyard ante up and accept a few??

When you advocate for open borders, this is what youíre advocating for. Illegal immigrants who need to be housed, fed, given medical attention, schools for their kids. If Mayor Lightfoot and the islanders in the Vineyard donít want them, maybe they should stop advocating for exactly this

Classic hypocritical ďIím for this, but not in my backyardĒ position. Big on talk, short on actual principles.
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Old 09-16-2022, 07:51 AM   #51
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Jim Southern states do not just bear this burden.
Umm
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Old 09-16-2022, 08:04 AM   #52
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So you criticize FL for not welcoming them, but have nothing to say about Marthaís Vineyard officials saying theyíre going to similarly ship them off. The swells on the vineyard donít want them either, and they currently donít have any. FL has plenty.

Why canít Marthaís Vineyard ante up and accept a few??

When you advocate for open borders, this is what youíre advocating for. Illegal immigrants who need to be housed, fed, given medical attention, schools for their kids. If Mayor Lightfoot and the islanders in the Vineyard donít want them, maybe they should stop advocating for exactly this

Classic hypocritical ďIím for this, but not in my backyardĒ position. Big on talk, short on actual principles.
Youíre claiming DeSantis has principles, MAGA Christians like you cheer on the cruelty and hate of Ron DeSantis.

Thankfully, most Christians believe in the actual teachings of Jesus Christ: ďFor I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me." Matthew 25:35.

1. DeSantis hired a woman named Perla to prowl the streets of San Antonio in Texas, lure migrants onto a plane under false pretenses of a trip to Boston and expedited work visas, and then dropped them in Marthaís Vineyard
2. The Venezuelan migrants that Ron DeSantis sent to Marthaís Vineyard were NOT here illegally. They were asylum seekers who fled the socialist Maduro regime, and have legitimate claims for asylum. Exploiting these vulnerable people for a political stunt is cruel and despicable.
3. Isn't it odd how all the talk is about borders in Texas and Arizona, but not California or New Mexico?
4. I love people acting like Massachusetts doesn't have one of the highest rates of non-native born residents in the US- higher than everywhere in the south except TX and FL. People are acting like no one is MA has ever seen an immigrant before and won't be able to cope...
5. The MAGA disinformation machine is cranking post and media segments that white liberals on Marthaís Vineyard are panicking and upset and in crisis mode. They have to feel that Desantis owns the libs. Itís largely based on a 30 second clip from one woman, but thatís all they need.
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Old 09-16-2022, 09:39 AM   #53
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Umm
well he claims that other states have the largest number of immigrants, but he did t provide any data, so he might have been referring to legal immigration, which is a totally separate issue

How would you like being a landowner in southern Texas? And hearing wealthy liberals say walls are bad, when those wealthy liberals will never, ever have to live with the effects of the open borders they advocate for.
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Old 09-16-2022, 09:48 AM   #54
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well he claims that other states have the largest number of immigrants, but he did t provide any data, so he might have been referring to legal immigration, which is a totally separate issue

How would you like being a landowner in southern Texas? And hearing wealthy liberals say walls are bad, when those wealthy liberals will never, ever have to live with the effects of the open borders they advocate for.
See post 37.
Massachusetts is #13 for Percent State Share of the Total Unauthorized Immigrant Population

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
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Old 09-16-2022, 03:35 PM   #55
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See post 37.
Massachusetts is #13 for Percent State Share of the Total Unauthorized Immigrant Population
I saw your post. that was my source also .. but those facts seem to always fall on deaf ears

And again with the open border nonsense …. it’s that same border Trump had I guess Jim never played red rover red rover , and if you walked from Thru 5 country’s to get to America any company should. Want to hire such a committed person. And they do !

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Old 09-16-2022, 04:39 PM   #56
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Just saw this - the more things change, the more they stay the same.

As the Republican governors of Texas, Arizona and Florida send busloads and planeloads of migrants to liberal bastions in the north to protest President Joe Biden's immigration policies, some have struck a comparison with a dark and mostly forgotten chapter of American history: the Reverse Freedom Rides of 1962.

Since April, governors Greg Abbott of Texas, Doug Ducey of Arizona and Ron DeSantis of Florida have collectively ordered thousands of migrants to be dropped in Democratic-led areas like Washington D.C., New York, Chicago and Martha's Vineyard.

According to many of the migrants who arrived in the small Massachusetts island on Wednesday, those traveling didn't exactly know their destination—but they were promised they would get jobs and housing upon their arrival.

That is not what awaited them in the north. While volunteers and authorities in Martha's Vineyard, Washington D.C. and New York scrambled to take care of the newly arrived migrants, officials have denounced a lack of resources and facilities to face the unexpected challenge coming from the southern states.

For some, the narrative that has guided the migrants to the liberal bastions in the north sounded familiar.

The Boston-based John F. Kennedy Presidential Library has drawn a parallel between the busing migrant crisis and DeSantis' program to fly planeloads of migrants outside of state lines to the Reverse Freedom Rides of 1962, when white southern segregationists tricked hundreds of Black Americans into moving north, promising them they would find jobs and housing in liberal states.

"To embarrass Northern liberals and humiliate Black people, southern White Citizens Councils started their so-called 'Reverse Freedom Rides,' giving Black people one-way tickets to northern cities with false promises of jobs, housing, and better lives," the library of the 35th U.S. president tweeted on Thursday.

The Reverse Freedom Rides were a parody of the Freedom Rides organized by the Congress of Racial Equality (CORE) and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) in the early 1960s, and were made in retaliation against northern liberals and the civil rights movement. Free one-way bus tickets were given to families who were lured into moving north with the promise of high-paid jobs and free housing. Some were even told they would meet President Kennedy.

But none of that happened.

Some 200 people boarded the Greyhound buses to progressive cities in the north, with the largest group—exactly 96 people—destined for Hyannis, Massachusetts—a short distance from Martha's Vineyard where some of today's migrants have been sent.

Hyannis is where the Williams, one of the first families who made it to the north from Arkansas, arrived in the summer of 1962, ready to meet the Kennedys, as they were told.

In 2019, Gabrielle Emanuel, a journalist with Boston public radio station WGBH, interviewed the families who had made the trip, including the Williams. Betty Williams, who was 18 at the time of the move, told WGBH that her mother Lela Mae was trying to give her nine children a better life.

"My mom thought that when she came to the North, she was going to have a better life for her children, better jobs and better housing," she said. "Better everything for all of us."

When they got off the bus in front of the Kennedys' home, there were cameras ready to film the arrivals of the Williams, prompted by the same Louisiana segregationist who had helped spearhead the Reverse Freedom Rides, Amis Guthridge.

While the then-president wasn't there to greet the Black family, civil rights activist Margaret Moseley was there, and she told WGBH in 2019 that the event "was one of the most inhuman things I have ever seen."

While Guthridge and George Singelmann —the original organizer of the rides— said that the Reverse Freedom Rides program was born "in a spirit of beneficence and humanitarianism," Moseley told WGBH she knew that the Black families were only pawns in a segregationist game.

While many found jobs and housing in the north eventually, some didn't. And life for the uprooted families was much different than the one they had envisioned before moving north.

'Pulling From A Playbook': The Migrant Busing Crisis
According to Abbott's office, more than 9,400 migrants have been dropped off in Washington since April—now likely over 9,500 with those left outside Vice President Kamala Harris' residence on Thursday—and more than 2,100 have been sent to New York. Since May, Arizona has sent 43 buses to Washington, D.C., transporting at least 1,500 migrants who are mainly from Colombia, Peru and Venezuela, according to Ducey.

On Wednesday, DeSantis claimed responsibility for flying some 50 migrants, mostly from Venezuela, to Martha's Vineyard. DeSantis said he's helping migrants "to go to greener pastures" in sanctuary jurisdictions.
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Old 09-16-2022, 05:06 PM   #57
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Yep an original idea from the party who loves living in the past when they told there supporters Blacks were the enemy to their way of life as they are now claiming the brown invasion is the latest assault against their way of life

Reverse Freedom Ridesí: An echo of Marthaís Vineyard migrant flights 60 years ago
Tricked by segregationists with promises of work and housing, Black families were dropped in Cape Cod with nothing. Sound familiar?

And guess what

Todayís migrants in Marthaís Vineyard are now being transported to the same Cape Cod military base that housed the ďReverse Freedom RidersĒ decades ago.
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Old 09-16-2022, 05:59 PM   #58
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Old 09-17-2022, 03:35 AM   #59
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"The Chamber of Commerce of Marthaís Vineyard said the island was facing a ďhumanitarian crisisĒ after Florida Governor Ron DeSantis sent just 50 migrants to the island this week. Yet more than 24,000 illegal immigrants would need to arrive on the island for it to equally share the burden faced by Del Rio, Texas, on the U.S.-Mexico border.

The Del Rio area had more than 49,500 migrant encounters in July alone ó more than the population of the city itself, which has a population of just over 34,500 people. By contrast, the year-round population of Marthaís Vineyard is 17,000 people and the island welcomed just 50 migrants when the ďhumanitarian crisisĒ was triggered."
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Old 09-17-2022, 05:28 AM   #60
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the vineyard is going to do what chicago
did, get rid of these people
as fast as they can get them out of their sight.

If liberals believes what they claim to believe, theyíd be welcoming the immigrants with open arms. Shows their hypocrisy, which is why itís dismissed as a stunt. I guess it is a stunt, but a very very effective one.

if youíre opposed to a wall, youíre advocating for more illegal immigration. Thatís what youíre supporting. So you should welcome more illegals.
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