Washington Post says Trump is 'complicit' in Hurricane Florence

[Jim in CT]

This is really starting to look like a bad, a very bad, SNL skit.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...ous-storm.html

Even if you grant that human behavior plays a major role in determining the frequency and severity of these storms, I sit really Trump's fault? Not China or India?

Bonkers. The left has gone absolutely bonkers.

[Nebe]

Considering trump pulled us out of the Paris climate agreement, I’m happy to put blame on trump for any climate related issues. Did you know he had seawalls built on his golf course in Scotland to protect against sea level rise? Isn’t that the most hypocritical thing you can think of?
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Considering trump pulled us out of the Paris climate agreement, I’m happy to put blame on trump for any climate related issues.


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and there you have it

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by scottw

and there you have it

Have you joined the flat earth society yet?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Have you joined the flat earth society yet?
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Nebe, if the left had any accuracy on this issue, why haven't any of their dire predictions come true?

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Nebe, if the left had any accuracy on this issue, why haven't any of their dire predictions come true?

Paging RI Rockhound....
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[spence]

Good lord, a news paper writes an attention getting headline!

The opinion piece is right on and sends a very important message.

[Nebe]

Maybe the hurricane is God’s way of punishing the evangelical south for supporting such a sleezebag. 😂😂😆😆
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[Nebe]

Good luck with that. I disagree with you but respect your beliefs.
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[Pete F.]

Nobody has to live in a yurt.
The thing we need to do for example is when we build a new house or renovate an old one is be willing to invest in energy conservation measures. People ask what is the ROI for the upgraded insulation package, it could be five or ten years. But they never ask about the ROI on the granite countertops.
This takes time and money, other countries are making the investment and we will be behind again. Money we waste on energy is money we can’t invest
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Nobody has to live in a yurt.
The thing we need to do for example is when we build a new house or renovate an old one is be willing to invest in energy conservation measures. People ask what is the ROI for the upgraded insulation package, it could be five or ten years. But they never ask about the ROI on the granite countertops.
This takes time and money, other countries are making the investment and we will be behind again. Money we waste on energy is money we can’t invest
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most people can’t afford solar panels or geothermal systems. i have panels at my house because i wanted to do it, but it’s stupudly expensive.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

most people can’t afford solar panels or geothermal systems. i have panels at my house because i wanted to do it, but it’s stupudly expensive.
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I would not advise doing ground source heat pumps in NE, we do not have real warm geothermal here. Your gain over air source will not pay for your investment during the life of the system. If you were in Iceland geothermal is plentiful, in fact they can in some locations just pump hot water out of the ground. Here the soil temperature is roughly equal to the latitude.
An air to air ductless heatpump is typically one of the most economical ways to heat and has one of the lowest installation costs. If you go to this site you can compare costs for different types of fuels and heating systems, based on your energy costs.
https://www.efficiencymaine.com/ener...or-homeowners/
You can do a solar system for 0$ up front here in VT, not sure how the rate structure is in CT.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I would not advise doing ground source heat pumps in NE, we do not have real warm geothermal here. Your gain over air source will not pay for your investment during the life of the system. If you were in Iceland geothermal is plentiful, in fact they can in some locations just pump hot water out of the ground. Here the soil temperature is roughly equal to the latitude.
An air to air ductless heatpump is typically one of the most economical ways to heat and has one of the lowest installation costs. If you go to this site you can compare costs for different types of fuels and heating systems, based on your energy costs.
https://www.efficiencymaine.com/ener...or-homeowners/
You can do a solar system for 0$ up front here in VT, not sure how the rate structure is in CT.

I did my solar with $0 laid out, but I don't save much, as I have to buy the electricity from the solar panel company. Would have been $30k to buy it, which is absurd.

We've also had an issue with birds nesting under there and then dying, so you can make a case I'm not really helping the planet. Had to spend more money to put guards under the panels to prevent bird infestation. Then it might make it harder to sell my house, because you can only do a 25 year lease. It's not NEARLY as user friendly as it could be.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I did my solar with $0 laid out, but I don't save much, as I have to buy the electricity from the solar panel company. Would have been $30k to buy it, which is absurd.

We've also had an issue with birds nesting under there and then dying, so you can make a case I'm not really helping the planet. Had to spend more money to put guards under the panels to prevent bird infestation. Then it might make it harder to sell my house, because you can only do a 25 year lease. It's not NEARLY as user friendly as it could be.

So you are saving money (and possibly the planet) and you think it should or could be easier. Sounds like a business opportunity. You could even recommend the bird guards for a slight additional cost.
How many panels do you have? I'm wondering how prices compare to VT

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I know Trump isn't responsible for a lot of that John come on really, but he owns his big fat mouth and constant denial that the death tolls reported in Puerto Rico are false. Even yesterday instead of taking the high road, a road he almost never travels down, he continued to state the few additional deaths over the initial reports are due to the hurricanes, in fact he spun it as if the Dems were responsible for the reporting to make him look bad. So who do you believe, someone who is living it and responsible for their citizens well being, or a guy who appears to be looking for the Guinness Book of Record for the most lies or miss truths spoken be any living being in a year?

He also owns his administrations policy decisions which will do nothing to curb global warming, in fact he really has no fear of global warming, because as you all know that's fake news. Global warming to him is like the reports that over 3000 died in Puerto Rico, or that his inauguration crowd was smaller than most recent presidents, or that he never knew Cohen paid off a porn star.

He spends is mornings watching Fox and tweeting more lies and hurtful messaging, I had little respect for this guy from the start and I can't wait until he is voted out or kicked to the curb.

Haha, Bob.

Trump, in his really crappy and often wrong way, is saying that the media frequently twists the truth to make him look bad. He is often correct. The media then runs with the crap he spews in his tweets, and they are then often correct.

Neither group is living in the land of honesty.

Lots of news and opnion outlets are blaming Trump and the FedGov's response to the PR hurricane disaster. The truth is that lots of things went right and lots wrong. If you (general you not Bob you ; ) ) are unwilling to wade into actual assessments and AAR.

I have seen enough inaccurate, biased, and opportunistic reporting RE PR/Maria to understand some of Trump's reactions to this.

The whining class however does not. They spun it while people died.

Here: Dig into the Executive Summary commissioned by PR regarding the casualties from Maria. PR was not prepared.

https://publichealth.gwu.edu/sites/d...rto%20Rico.pdf

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Lots of news and opnion outlets are blaming Trump and the FedGov's response to the PR hurricane disaster. The truth is that lots of things went right and lots wrong. If you (general you not Bob you ; ) ) are unwilling to wade into actual assessments and AAR.

Part of being a strong leader is recognizing the shortcomings for what they are and pushing everyone forward to higher ground. A sober assessment means little when the man ultimately responsible for catalyzing change is more concerned about his own appearance than the well being of those who are under his wing.

The timing and substance of the tweets this morning were shocking even for Trump.

[RIROCKHOUND]

I'm leaving at this Jim. Too busy to engage in pointless arguments on the internet.
1. The global cooling argument from the 70's is way over played (see this link for more on that) https://www.skepticalscience.com/What-1970s-science-said-about-global-cooling.html

2. Spence had a good take on this above. Models are not wildly speculative assumptions. This video offers a good explanation on how models are made using historic data and carried into the future. The take away is that the exact prediction of any model is not important, but the overall consensus of these various independent models on increasing levels of CO2 are warming the atmosphere, and in the case of this video, reducing the sea ice cover in the arctic

The geological record provides solid evidence of the implications of warmer worlds, times with higher CO2 and higher sea level than present. Let’s take Sea level rise since we are in the coastal area of New England.

Sea level is rising. Period. Observations and data (NOT MODELS) show it has accelerated within the last few decades and that that is driven by thermal expansion and melting of land based ice related to a warming planet.

Even if you want to conclude that sea level rise is not accelerating, it is rising, and that means that for every area prone to flooding from storms (and sea level rise), that it is not going to get better. How many coastal communities have installed tide gates on storm drains in recent years because low areas are now flooding just on spring tides w/o storm surge? That is largely due to ~1 ft of sea level rise. Now picture 3 -5 feet. The extreme scenarios in S. New England are >10ft.
The degree of how much worse it gets is up for debate. Prudent planning for the next decades to deal with this, rather than sticking fingers in our ears and yelling is short sighted and will make adaptation harder in the future. That isn’t even adding in the increased height of storm surge or potential for more intense or more frequent storms.

Scott, I like you, but F--- off unless you are going to actually contribute to these discussions.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Scott, I like you, but F--- off unless you are going to actually contribute to these discussions.

cranky dictator

[scottw]

when you want government to do everything....you allow and encourage everything to be politicized ..and weaponized...which is where we stand today....the left has wrapped themselves in the cloak of invincibility of many things...science, race, environment, immigration and on and on...standing on their pedestals they have politicized and every issue and weaponized one government agency (particularly through the 8 years of Obama) after another to attack anyone who might disagree with them...when you politicize and weaponize everything you create division and choosing of sides and mistrust.....the left has overblown through lies, distortion and exaggeration the information and "science" often with the aid of the "scientific community"....the left in so many ways today has created many of the boogiemen that they battle on a daily basis...I don't have much sympathy

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Trump is no more complicit in Florence than I am, but the moves he is making and his denial that climate change is happening, will not lessen the impact. Unless you just never ever watch national geographic or any of the outstanding documentaries that have air and documented what is happening, then keep believing climate change is a hoax. It won't impact you, it might not impact your children, but there will be significant implications down the road if the ice packs and glaciers continue to melt. Where do you think all the fing water is going?

Trump is complicit in the poor effort in the after math of Hugo in Puerto Rico, oh wait I'm sorry it was outstanding A+ job, he will likely do better in the Carolina's because they aren't some dirt bag island he doesn't give a sh*t about.

Did you know Trump is at fault for those millions of water bottles at Ciueba? Not sailing Comfort or Mercy (Hillary fixed that)? Not building a bridge before the storm from FL to PR in order to get trucks overnight to PR to repair the state of art Power Grid the US gave PR Many Millions to copy?

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Did you know Trump is at fault for those millions of water bottles at Ciueba? Not sailing Comfort or Mercy (Hillary fixed that)? Not building a bridge before the storm from FL to PR in order to get trucks overnight to PR to repair the state of art Power Grid the US gave PR Many Millions to copy?

I know Trump isn't responsible for a lot of that John come on really, but he owns his big fat mouth and constant denial that the death tolls reported in Puerto Rico are false. Even yesterday instead of taking the high road, a road he almost never travels down, he continued to state the few additional deaths over the initial reports are due to the hurricanes, in fact he spun it as if the Dems were responsible for the reporting to make him look bad. So who do you believe, someone who is living it and responsible for their citizens well being, or a guy who appears to be looking for the Guinness Book of Record for the most lies or miss truths spoken be any living being in a year?

He also owns his administrations policy decisions which will do nothing to curb global warming, in fact he really has no fear of global warming, because as you all know that's fake news. Global warming to him is like the reports that over 3000 died in Puerto Rico, or that his inauguration crowd was smaller than most recent presidents, or that he never knew Cohen paid off a porn star.

He spends is mornings watching Fox and tweeting more lies and hurtful messaging, I had little respect for this guy from the start and I can't wait until he is voted out or kicked to the curb.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

I'm leaving at this Jim. Too busy to engage in pointless arguments on the internet.
1. The global cooling argument from the 70's is way over played (see this link for more on that) https://www.skepticalscience.com/What-1970s-science-said-about-global-cooling.html

2. Spence had a good take on this above. Models are not wildly speculative assumptions. This video offers a good explanation on how models are made using historic data and carried into the future. The take away is that the exact prediction of any model is not important, but the overall consensus of these various independent models on increasing levels of CO2 are warming the atmosphere, and in the case of this video, reducing the sea ice cover in the arctic

The geological record provides solid evidence of the implications of warmer worlds, times with higher CO2 and higher sea level than present. Let’s take Sea level rise since we are in the coastal area of New England.

Sea level is rising. Period. Observations and data (NOT MODELS) show it has accelerated within the last few decades and that that is driven by thermal expansion and melting of land based ice related to a warming planet.

Even if you want to conclude that sea level rise is not accelerating, it is rising, and that means that for every area prone to flooding from storms (and sea level rise), that it is not going to get better. How many coastal communities have installed tide gates on storm drains in recent years because low areas are now flooding just on spring tides w/o storm surge? That is largely due to ~1 ft of sea level rise. Now picture 3 -5 feet. The extreme scenarios in S. New England are >10ft.
The degree of how much worse it gets is up for debate. Prudent planning for the next decades to deal with this, rather than sticking fingers in our ears and yelling is short sighted and will make adaptation harder in the future. That isn’t even adding in the increased height of storm surge or potential for more intense or more frequent storms.

Scott, I like you, but F--- off unless you are going to actually contribute to these discussions.

bryan, i run models all day long, to predict insurance losses. in these models, i have tons of historical data to base my assumptions on. if i’m trying to estimate how many auto accidents we will have in RI for every 100 cars we ensure, i can look at the number of accidents per 100 cars for each of the last 50 years. so the models are highly predictive, because there is a credible amount of historical data.

not so with climate change effects. the models
make wildly speculative assumptions, because it’s all brand new. it’s more complicated, with more moving pieces.

the sea is rising, that’s settled. how much if that is due to man, is wildly speculative, because we can’t know what sea labels would have been if man didn’t exist.

it’s very very important stuff, it needs to be researched. but don’t tell me that there aren’t broad assumptions because of the unknowns.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Scott, I like you, but F--- off unless you are going to actually contribute to these discussions.

I'd note that I'm the only one who provided an example of what he asked for and was told to f--off....

typical democrat no surprise

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by scottw

I'd note that I'm the only one who provided an example of what he asked for and was told to f--off....

typical democrat no surprise

Again, I am not wasting the time wading into this here. We have rehashed the same arguments about models with Jim and I am not engaging. There are older posts about it, and I would just end up saying the same basic stuff.

Yes, you did post an example... You edited that post after just writing 'consensus, yawn' and admittedly, I didn't see it. After I posted, I saw your rant about government and then was off the forum the rest of the day.

You didn't post something to defend Jim's point anyways. A 2018 paper talking about the implications of 2deg C warming, which is a very reasonable outcome this century, is not a case where a projection was wrong.

Have a good day guys. May the continued circle-jerk be profound for you....

[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Have a good day guys. May the continued circle-jerk be profound for you....

geez get a grip...it's amusement...if you think you are going to solve the world's problems HERE....you really need some help

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by scottw

geez get a grip...it's amusement...if you think you are going to solve the world's problems HERE....you really need some help

Nothing to do with saving the world... I enjoy the banter, but not enough hours in the day to waste it here with you jamokes :-)
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by scottw

geez get a grip...it's amusement...if you think you are going to solve the world's problems HERE....you really need some help

I know, that’s what Facebook is for
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[Got Stripers]

Jim your statement “ can’t even decide what’s happening, let alone figure out the causes or what the effects might be” is so wrong, I pretty sure there is a definate concensu in the scientific community on global warming. Unless you don’t watch local news; it’s clear to Boston it will severely impact them if sea levels continue to rise, to the level building codes are changing in the seaport. I grew up in Scituate Ma and remember walking over a mile of nice sandy beach and today at high tide you would need waders to go much past the small beach level by minut center. My son just got back from Alaska and was bummed they couldn’t take the advertised glacier dog sled ride, but the guide explained it’s just become so unsafe due to the unusual melting the past several years. Mountains covered by snow for hundreds of years are now shedding their perpetual winter blanket, polar bears are starving due to the lack of sea ice to hunt on, add it all up and it’s pretty clear what is happening.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Jim your statement “ can’t even decide what’s happening, let alone figure out the causes or what the effects might be” is so wrong, I pretty sure there is a definate concensu in the scientific community on global warming. Unless you don’t watch local news; it’s clear to Boston it will severely impact them if sea levels continue to rise, to the level building codes are changing in the seaport. I grew up in Scituate Ma and remember walking over a mile of nice sandy beach and today at high tide you would need waders to go much past the small beach level by minut center. My son just got back from Alaska and was bummed they couldn’t take the advertised glacier dog sled ride, but the guide explained it’s just become so unsafe due to the unusual melting the past several years. Mountains covered by snow for hundreds of years are now shedding their perpetual winter blanket, polar bears are starving due to the lack of sea ice to hunt on, add it all up and it’s pretty clear what is happening.
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first it was global cooling. then global warming. then climate change.

the ice in antarctica is advancing, isn’t it?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

first it was global cooling. then global warming. then climate change.

the ice in antarctica is advancing, isn’t it?
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No
https://www.skepticalscience.com/ant...termediate.htm