President Obama's health care--

[fishbones]

Health care reform was one of the "big 3" issues Obama said he was going to address right off the bat. He's trying to push it through because he made such a big deal about it and he doesn't want it to come back and bite his rear end.

If you want to read something very interesting about health care costs and have a lot of time, check out this article from the New Yorker. It's legnthy but interesting in revealing one of the many reasons for the sky high costs of health care today. The article focuses on one extreme case, but you could probably find a trend if you looked at other towns in the US.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...urrentPage=all

[scottw]

As The New York Post has aptly pointed out, ObamaCare is a sick joke. Here are some facts that refuse to be ignored...

By 52 percent to 40 percent, voters are opposed to the healthcare bill introduced on July 14 to the House of Representatives.

Independents now oppose ObamaCare by a ratio of almost 2:1.

The World Health Organization ranked the United States No. 1 out of 191 countries for being responsive to patients' needs, including providing timely treatments and a choice of doctors. Among those currently insured, 84% are satisfied with their healthcare. But if you're happy, don't get too comfortable: ObamaCare will force people to change their insurance.

Americans recognize now that the Kenyan Kommunist is a left wing radical...I truly enjoy his childish rants and condescension when he fails to get his way, many democrats are backing away but the dem. leadership are committed radicals as well, this is not what many (the hypnotized) voted for and the ONE is slipping into Jimmy Carter territory where he belongs... when your entire foundation and career has been built on little more than hype...it's just a matter of time, enjoy the slide Obama...you can join Carter as a another whiny, failed, angry, bitter, Marxist, dictator hugging ex-President...

[Raven]

Originally Posted by scottw

The World Health Organization ranked the United States No. 1 out of 191 countries for being responsive to patients' needs, including providing timely treatments and
"a choice of doctors".

i have to dispute that statement because your health insurance provider dictates to you which Doctors you may choose from.

Then, you have to determine whether or not they are accepting
new patients ESPECIALLY when seeking a new primary care physician....

the worst thing about health care as i see it...

is the referral system which is left entirely up to the patient to follow up on to make sure they received it or you are billed IN FULL by the specialist's services. It's almost completely worth it to wait for a written referral letter and give the specialist's staff a copy to avoid this billing issue.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by Raven

i have to dispute that statement because your health insurance provider dictates to you which Doctors you may choose from.

Then, you have to determine whether or not they are accepting
new patients ESPECIALLY when seeking a new primary care physician....

the worst thing about health care as i see it...

is the referral system which is left entirely up to the patient to follow up on to make sure they received it or you are billed IN FULL by the specialist's services. It's almost completely worth it to wait for a written referral letter and give the specialist's staff a copy to avoid this billing issue.

Raven, he's using a statement from W.H.O. that compares health care in the US to other countries. Do you really think you would have more choices of physicians in another country? I haven't looked into it, but I'd be willing to bet my plug collection that there are more doctors to choose from with major health insurance companies here than there are in other countries.

[scottw]

and in a free country you may change healthcare providers if you don't like the doctors in their particular network, would prefer to have the government and it's bureaucrats determining who, when and for what treatments you may seek medical care...DO ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY READ WHAT IS HAPPENING IN OTHER COUNTRIES WITH GOVERNMENT ADMINISTERED SYSTEMS....or do you simply trust Obama's brilliance..OBAMA IS A LIAR....he has to constantly hold these "press conferences" to continually reinforce his lies...it's tough work...

[Raven]

yes it's a free country.... but in our case it is not really our choice.

the company my wife works for makes the decision for us
and recently switched from Tufts to Blue cross...

so, you basically follow what they provide you.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by Raven

yes it's a free country.... but in our case it is not really our choice.

the company my wife works for makes the decision for us and recently switched from Tufts to Blue cross...

so, you basically follow what they provide you.

It's still your choice. Your wife can quit her job and go somewhere else that offers the insurance you prefer ,or she can decline coverage and go to whatever doctor you want and pay out of pocket. It's really pretty simple. No plan is going to make everyone happy.

How do you think other countries have it better than us?

[Raven]

that is an option true

just not realistic.... for us.

i made no comparison between the USA
and other countries

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Raven

yes it's a free country.... but in our case it is not really our choice.

the company my wife works for makes the decision for us and recently switched from Tufts to Blue cross...

so, you basically follow what they provide you.

or you opt out of what your company provides and go get your own...I listened to a caller to a show who was a small business owner whine that he couldn't afford healthcare yesterday...appparently it was not high on his priority list...there ARE options...46% of the so-called uninsured 18-64 can afford health insurance and chose not to purchase it, probably in lieu of a nice car...

I've been self employed or more than 20 years, when BC/BS reached 1000/month to insure my family I began to look around, at the time in RI the options were BC/BS and United, everyone else had left the state probably due to the level of corruption exitsing between the dems in the state house and BC/BS making it impossible to compete..

I've been with Midwest National Life for years...my monthly premium for a family of 5 is 300/month...I pay for dental visits, checkups, persciptions up to a reasonable deductible out of pocket...hey, just like car insurance...I have relatively high deductibles for major medical but they are a fraction of the difference in yearly premiums that I was paying...allowing me to save

bottom line...if you want healthcare provided to you anytime, anywhere with low or no deductibles and co-pays simply flash a card....it is going to cost you...very attractive on it's face...never going to happen...this "reform" is a disaster if it is passed...

Obama claiming that he can provide the above at low cost is a joke...

[Raven]

the emergency room fee's just changed from 50 dollars per visit
to 150 dollars per visit and that's just ridiculous....


seems like the Doctors are all adamant to get you to go get a cat scan or an MRI (someone told me they get a kick back)
and then they don't seem to care about following up on the results after wards.

Orin Hatch just announced today: He's out and no longer going to debate health care...

that's what his JOB is....

what if all politicians suddenly took his position.

Generally it takes a team of wild horses to drag me to a Doctors office in the first place.

[scottw]

have you checked different emergency rooms or clinics for prices? this is part of the problem, people will drive miles out of the way to get 10 cent cheaper gas or buy in bulk at BJ's but never "shop" for perscriptions, Dr. visits or other health care in general, it's because they've been conditioned to believe that they can just go get whatever they want or need and someone else will take care of everything...

and now they're told "healthcare(insurance) is a right", when in fact what you are losing is all of your rights as a user of the healthcare system to a large and oppressive government

would you prefer $10 per visit and Larry, Mo and Curly for doctors? "calling Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine"

[Raven]

Originally Posted by scottw

would you prefer $10 per visit and Larry, Mo and Curly for doctors? "calling Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine"

I called Blue + Shield and got sent around the merry go round
with the Autobot recordings ... 6 times

Same thing when i called the hospital just to see what an emergency room visit costs.... and i was transfered 5 times
then i got this DAN characters voice mail and he ain't there.

i guess i lacked a siren....

[justplugit]

So, aside from the fact that the millionaires will pay for health care,
what did the American people learn from the President's infomercial/ press conference
on Health-Care?

Almost damaging to your brain to try and figure this stuff out.

[Fishpart]

"It will be at a lower cost" which really means what healthcare you get will be rationed so don't get old or really sick....

Why get government involved? If we could drive down the cost of the insurance Dr's pay, we could cut healthcare costs... Oh, I forgot all the lawmakers are lawyers how stupid of me.

Interesting information I got from another source:
The biggest argument for healthcare reform is the uninsured. The number reform advocates like to use is 46 million or a little over 15% of the population. The reformers never tell us who these people are or why they are uninsured. Doing so would damage their attempt at wholesale changes. According to the Census Bureau in 2007, 9.7 million or 21.0% are non-citizens. There are 18.3 million or 40% of the uninsured are young adults in the 18 – 34 age range. Many of these people don’t see the necessity of paying a health care premium when they are young and healthy. In 2005, the Kaiser Foundation found out that 6 million of the 8 million uninsured children were eligible for existing Federal health insurance, but were not enrolled. 3.1 million parents of these children were also eligible for Federal programs, but were not enrolled. These groups compose over 70% of the uninsured. If you don’t believe that age should be a determining factor in health insurance cover!age, the Census Bureau breaks down the income range of the uninsured. 17.5 million have incomes of $50,000 or more, which goes against the advocates’ picture of everyone being poor, and thus unable to afford coverage.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Fishpart

Why get government involved?

That's what i say. Ford just posted a 2 billion dollar profit with 0 government help.

Just let capitalism do it's job.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Fishpart

Interesting information I got from another source:
The biggest argument for healthcare reform is the uninsured. The number reform advocates like to use is 46 million or a little over 15% of the population. The reformers never tell us who these people are or why they are uninsured. Doing so would damage their attempt at wholesale changes. According to the Census Bureau in 2007, 9.7 million or 21.0% are non-citizens. There are 18.3 million or 40% of the uninsured are young adults in the 18 – 34 age range. Many of these people don’t see the necessity of paying a health care premium when they are young and healthy. In 2005, the Kaiser Foundation found out that 6 million of the 8 million uninsured children were eligible for existing Federal health insurance, but were not enrolled. 3.1 million parents of these children were also eligible for Federal programs, but were not enrolled. These groups compose over 70% of the uninsured. If you don’t believe that age should be a determining factor in health insurance cover!age, the Census Bureau breaks down the income range of the uninsured. 17.5 million have incomes of $50,000 or more, which goes against the advocates’ picture of everyone being poor, and thus unable to afford coverage.

Yes, when you dig a little deeper you find statistics that don't support the 47 million people they say are not insured.

The Urban Institute reports 25% of the uninsured already qualify for some medical insurance program.

The National Bureau Of Economic Research says, "Based on plausible definitions and assumptions, health insurance is affordable for
between 3/4 and 1/4 quarters of adults who are NOT insured.

Those #s go along with what i heard on the news todaythat 43%
of the 47 million can afford insurance but choose not to buy it for whatever reasons.

That would drop the # of uninsured who can't afford insurance to 27 million people.

While there is a need for Health Insurance for the unemployed looking for work, and those that are truly disabled, imho there is no reason to revamp and change our whole current medical system for 277 million people to accommodate 27 million people.

JR may need to check my math, as usual.

[justplugit]

New Rasmussen Poll-- 54% polled said they don't want Health Care passed
this year.

The American people are catching up realizing the Administration's Emergencies
are a ploy to, among other things, takeover 1/6 th of the nation's economy
with Health Care.

[MAC]

Originally Posted by justplugit

New Rasmussen Poll-- 54% polled said they don't want Health Care passed
this year.

The American people are catching up realizing the Administration's Emergencies
are a ploy to, among other things, takeover 1/6 th of the nation's economy
with Health Care.

I'd bet that the only ones who do want it are the ones who have no insurance.....

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by MAC

I'd bet that the only ones who do want it are the ones who have no insurance.....

Huh? One question for everyone, when you were between 18 and 24 did you have or give a crap about health care? I didn't, and I know alot of you didn't either. Why should someone in that age group spend a lot of $$ on health care they are almost certain not to need. They do like I did save the monthly health care costs and pay for that 1 time a year visit that you may get sick and pocket the rest for beer and women.....

[RIROCKHOUND]

CB, that is one of the dumbest things I have heard said (I mean that in a nice way...)

What happens when you are 22 and you have a major car accident or cancer or something else catastrophic happens and you don't have the resources to pay your bills... you either go deeply in debt, or you suck of the gov't teet somehow...

almost certain....

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

CB, that is one of the dumbest things I have heard said (I mean that in a nice way...)

What happens when you are 22 and you have a major car accident or cancer or something else catastrophic happens and you don't have the resources to pay your bills... you either go deeply in debt, or you suck of the gov't teet somehow...

almost certain....

Almost certain NOT TO HAPPEN, which is why 22 year olds aren't concerned.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Almost certain NOT TO HAPPEN, which is why 22 year olds aren't concerned.

Aside from there always being a chance for something to happen, the reason 22 year olds aren't concerned is because they don't know better. They've probably been s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g from the parental teet for the last 22 years and don't realize the consequences until something *does* happen.

People in their 20's aren't immune from sickness, disease or stupidity. They statistically take more chances than people older, have a higher level of activity and as such, are at a higher risk of injury.

22 year olds do get sick, they do have injuries and vehicular accidents don't only involve soccer moms or the elderly. Then, if they do get injured or a sickness, good luck getting insurance to cover a pre-existing condition.

[MAC]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

Huh? One question for everyone, when you were between 18 and 24 did you have or give a crap about health care? I didn't, and I know alot of you didn't either. Why should someone in that age group spend a lot of $$ on health care they are almost certain not to need. They do like I did save the monthly health care costs and pay for that 1 time a year visit that you may get sick and pocket the rest for beer and women.....

When I was 18 I had insurance. It came with the green uniform...

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by MAC

When I was 18 I had insurance. It came with the green uniform...

good response.

detbuch, my circle of people I know is not huge, but I can think of a few people who would have been seriously screwed if they didn't have insurance in the early 20's....

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

good response.

detbuch, my circle of people I know is not huge, but I can think of a few people who would have been seriously screwed if they didn't have insurance in the early 20's....

As stupid as this sounds, when I was 23, I got a plantar's wart on the bottom of my foot. Took 4 attempts of laser removal in a hospital until it finally never came back - no including the 3 attempts by my primary to freeze it off. Cost me about $60 when everything was said and done. Actual cost: about $2500 *per surgery*.

At 23, how exactly would I have paid for a $10,000 medical bill? I wouldn't have. The wart would have spread and got worse, and I'd probably still be dealing with it today.

But people in their 20's don't need health insurance, right?

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Almost certain NOT TO HAPPEN, which is why 22 year olds aren't concerned.

I'd wager there are a lot of 22 year old dying of cancer right now wishing you well in your health.

What's next, kids with leukemia?

-spence

[fishbones]

Why do some of you find it so hard to understand that many younger people decline health insurance? I work in a company with mostly young employees and we offer BCBS for ALL full-time workers. Most of our younger employees decline it because they don't think they're going to need it. The money is more important than the security to them. I know this because I have to ask all employees who decline coverage why they are declining. And when I mention younger employees, I mean the group from about 18 to 30 years old. Maybe it's hard for some of you to believe, but there are a lot of people out there willing to roll the dice when it comes to their health. When you were in your early 20's did you lie awake at night thinking you were going to be in a serious accident or get a serious illness? Probably not.

And Bryan, your car accident scenario sounds great, but most car accidents resulting in injury are covered by auto insurance. Check your policy for a PIP clause. And injuries and in some cases, illnesses caused by work are covered by workers compensation.

Keep in mind also that if someone is enrolled in college and take full-time credits, they are covered under their parents health insurance up to age 24 in some states. These people are naturally going to decline insurance from their employer.

[justplugit]

The problem is we don't know what the real # of people who can't afford health care is.

Obama says it's 47 million, but as mentioned above, other estimates make it around 27 million when taking into account the 43% of people
who can afford it but choose not to buy it.

In addition the Congressional Budget Office said today 10% are illegal aliens.

We need a plan under our current system, the best in the world, to cover our citizens that are unemployed and truly disabled.

To change everything and come up with a new government run plan that will afffect everyone is ridiculous to cover 9% of the population.

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by justplugit

The problem is we don't know what the real # of people who can't afford health care is.

Obama says it's 47 million, but as mentioned above, other estimates make it around 27 million when taking into account the 43% of people
who can afford it but choose not to buy it.

In addition the Congressional Budget Office said today 10% are illegal aliens.

We need a plan under our current system, the best in the world, to cover our citizens that are unemployed and truly disabled.

To change everything and come up with a new government run plan that will afffect everyone is ridiculous to cover 9% of the population.

Well said JPI. But in all reality its the government control of the system they are looking for, not improving the current system.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Why do some of you find it so hard to understand that many younger people decline health insurance? I work in a company with mostly young employees and we offer BCBS for ALL full-time workers. Most of our younger employees decline it because they don't think they're going to need it. The money is more important than the security to them. I know this because I have to ask all employees who decline coverage why they are declining. And when I mention younger employees, I mean the group from about 18 to 30 years old. Maybe it's hard for some of you to believe, but there are a lot of people out there willing to roll the dice when it comes to their health. When you were in your early 20's did you lie awake at night thinking you were going to be in a serious accident or get a serious illness? Probably not.

Everything you said is exactly my point. Younger people don't know any better. One major sickness could medically bankrupt a person and screw them over for the next 10+ years.