Fox tell Trump to arm Teachers

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

States and share holders request their retirement or investments be divested for all sorts of reason environment human rights dictatorships ..

So a constituent asking his or her rep to stop taking money from the NRA who they see as caring only for its self and feel act irresponsibility .. isn't all that surprising, nor was his response or lack of one

In that particular setting, it wasn't a question, it was a set up. And Rubio (though I agree with him on most issues) is too much of an intellectual lightweight to respond appropriately.

If Rubio dodges like he did, he looks like a coward. If he explains the facts of life to a teenager who probably has 5 funerals to go to this week, he comes across as heartless. It was a set up from which Rubio had no escape, because there is no escape.

When is CNN going to have an abortion survivor on, and ask a Democrat senator when they are going to stop taking money from Planned Parenthood? Never, because CNN is openly pursuing a left-wing ideology.

[wdmso]

Trump says violent video games 'shape' young minds

Last week, Kentucky Governor Matt Bevin, reacting to the Florida shooting, also singled out video games as an influence on the way younger people viewed the world.

But lets blame Video games who does he blame in Kentucky for the
1,330 overdose deaths in Kentucky in 2016, 31% were among people ages 35-44.

Hollywood lack of morals ?

[spence]

One thing on this issue I haven't heard mentioned is if you have an armed teacher(s) and there's an active shooter they have to respond to...

...

Who's taking care of that classroom of kids?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

One thing on this issue I haven't heard mentioned is if you have an armed teacher(s) and there's an active shooter they have to respond to...

...

Who's taking care of that classroom of kids?

A fair and pertinent question. There would need to be a protocol, and there are ways to deal with that. Have a plan where a teacher can't leave his class to engage a shooter until he knows that his kids are in another class first.

Having the military in the school, would also eliminate that concern.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

A fair and pertinent question. There would need to be a protocol, and there are ways to deal with that. Have a plan where a teacher can't leave his class to engage a shooter until he knows that his kids are in another class first.

Sounds like a recipe for total chaos and inaction. The whole idea is so ridiculously stupid I can't even believe people are talking about it. Trump's remarks yesterday were laughable. I can't believe he really said you might have a teacher who had won a shooting contest so give them a bonus to carry in school.

Hell, even in FL a veteran police officer couldn't engage the shooter. You think a social studies teacher is just going to go all Rambo?

Even worse is taking the wrong actions...it's makes people think something has been done and they get complacent.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Sounds like a recipe for total chaos and inaction. The whole idea is so ridiculously stupid I can't even believe people are talking about it. Trump's remarks yesterday were laughable. I can't believe he really said you might have a teacher who had won a shooting contest so give them a bonus to carry in school.

Hell, even in FL a veteran police officer couldn't engage the shooter. You think a social studies teacher is just going to go all Rambo?

Even worse is taking the wrong actions...it's makes people think something has been done and they get complacent.

You’re doing what every other ideologue does. Only talking about one side of the issue. Yes, Spence, there are useless cops out there. That doesn’t mean that police don’t add value. Similarly, armed guards in school can not prevent every death. But they might well save lives.

When evaluating an idea, you consider the pros and the cons. Not just the cons. You never learned that?
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You’re doing what every other ideologue does. Only talking about one side of the issue. Yes, Spence, there are useless cops out there. That doesn’t mean that police don’t add value. Similarly, armed guards in school can not prevent every death. But they might well save lives.

When evaluating an idea, you consider the pros and the cons. Not just the cons. You never learned that?
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You're jumping to conclusions. Just because I don't weigh both sides of an argument in a post doesn't mean I don't hold them in my mind.

That being said, when the negatives outweigh the positives 10:1...

[PaulS]

I believe there have been laws restricting semi automatics and large capacity magazines that have upheld by courts. The laws say the 2nd amendment doesn't apply to semi autos. Don't know if they have been challenged. Maybe Virginia or Maryland?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I believe there have been laws restricting semi automatics and large capacity magazines that have upheld by courts. The laws say the 2nd amendment doesn't apply to semi autos. Don't know if they have been challenged. Maybe Virginia or Maryland?

CT did something pretty aggressive after Sandy Hook, right? Can you still buy an AR-15 in CT?

The courts have long held that the 2nd Amendment isn't absolute. Which is a good thing, I don't want Maxine Waters buying a nuke.

[Jim in CT]

Remember that town hall CNN sponsored after the Kate Steinle killing, when grieving family members of those who had been murdered by illegal aliens were able to question Democrat lawmakers who had voted in favor of sanctuary cities and open borders?

Neither do I.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Remember that town hall CNN sponsored after the Kate Steinle killing, when grieving family members of those who had been murdered by illegal aliens were able to question Democrat lawmakers who had voted in favor of sanctuary cities and open borders?

Neither do I.

Probably because illegal immigrants commit much less violent crime than the population as a whole. It's not a top of mind issue like school shootings and mass shootings.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by wdmso

So please stop the "traditional" family values, argument thats everyones responsibility as a parent

Because everyone is doing such a fine job raising their kids.

Originally Posted by Nebe

I want to know why people think that fully automatic ar-15’s are “too scary” for civialian ownership if the argument that banning a semi automatic one is unconstitutional siting the well regulated militia argument. A militia needs military tools that are equal to the tools that our governments soldiers have access too. It does not make sense to me.
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Interesting question. From a purely 2A perspective civilians should also have artillery and F22s. 2A as interpreted in Heller -v- DC, allows for firearms and allows for types of firearms for self defense. So based on this we should have access to full auto too. But we don't.

Originally Posted by spence

Hell, even in FL a veteran police officer couldn't engage the shooter. You think a social studies teacher is just going to go all Rambo?

Even worse is taking the wrong actions...it's makes people think something has been done and they get complacent.

That school SRO failed his charges, those kids. Some of those kids acted with far higher guts and integrity than did that SRO.

A lot of different people and organizations dropped the ball on Parkland.

NUMEROUS opportunities to prevent that tragedy where there, some ignored, some not followed through.

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Interesting question. From a purely 2A perspective civilians should also have artillery and F22s. 2A as interpreted in Heller -v- DC, allows for firearms and allows for types of firearms for self defense. So based on this we should have access to full auto too. But we don't.

It's probably worth noting here that a big reason access to full auto firearms was restricted is because Congress at the time was concerned with their increasing use in violent crime. (and taxes)

It's also probably worth noting here that a big reason you rarely ever see full auto firearms used in violent crime today is because they're hard to get.

[Sea Dangles]

If they can't prevent such a happening,what do you think could given the current restrictions?
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

If they can't prevent such a happening,what do you think could given the current restrictions?
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I think the point that gun-controllers would make is that the only thing that would totally prevent mass shootings would be the outlawing of rifle or pistol semi- automatic guns--actually the ELIMINATION of such guns or even other guns since criminals would not be stopped from getting guns merely by making them illegal.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I think the point that gun-controllers would make is that the only thing that would totally prevent mass shootings would be the outlawing of rifle or pistol semi- automatic guns--actually the ELIMINATION of such guns or even other guns since criminals would not be stopped from getting guns merely by making them illegal.

Gun control does not equal Prevention of Crime no more than a only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy can stop Mass shootings

people think Family values are to Blame and use the past as examples
but leave out what was missing (the availability of weapons and how differently they were marketed )


current / 1950

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Gun control does not equal Prevention of Crime no more than a only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy can stop Mass shootings

people think Family values are to Blame and use the past as examples
but leave out what was missing (the availability of weapons and how differently they were marketed )


current / 1950

Handguns can be used quite effectively in mass shootings, ask major Hassan and the 13 families of his victims. Handguns were available back in the heyday if family values, yet mass shootings didn’t happen with this regularity.

It’s not just family values, and I never said it was. That’s one piece. Availability of sexy looking guns is another, guns whose loooks fuel the dark fantasies of a very small number of very sick people. Mental health issues, the internet, crappy parenting, lack of religion. And the violence we bombard our kids with, all play into it. And you’d have to be next generation thoughtless, to truly believe that trained, armed guards wouldn’t help just because of a recent failure. Reagan was shot in 1980, and no one was silly enough to say we don’t need the secret service.
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[Sea Dangles]

I have to laugh at the blatant stupidity that gets shared here. Wayne,is your implication that the president of the country should not have armed security because Reagan got shot? Or is this more ramblings from the lunatic fringe? Perhaps they should just hug it out and make them promise not to shoot again.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I have to laugh at the blatant stupidity that gets shared here. Wayne,is your implication that the president of the country should not have armed security because Reagan got shot? Or is this more ramblings from the lunatic fringe? Perhaps they should just hug it out and make them promise not to shoot again.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Correct, they are saying that because having armed guards isn't 100% foolproof, that it's therefore not a good idea. Perfect is now the enemy of good.

No one idea is fool-proof. Gun control sure as hell isn't.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Correct, they are saying that because having armed guards isn't 100% foolproof, that it's therefore not a good idea. Perfect is now the enemy of good.

I think you're reading that completely wrong.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I have to laugh at the blatant stupidity that gets shared here. Wayne,is your implication that the president of the country should not have armed security because Reagan got shot? Or is this more ramblings from the lunatic fringe? Perhaps they should just hug it out and make them promise not to shoot again.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

No my implication is as it always been there are many parts to this problem. . Trump's is on the side of whom ever his audience is at the time

[Sea Dangles]

Spence and Wayne, it's easy to be an armchair quarterback in situations like this,but seriously, instead of mocking Trump what would be your suggestions in how this can realistically be fixed? Obama had 8 years as president,what improvements did he make that made you feel safer?
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Spence and Wayne, it's easy to be an armchair quarterback in situations like this,but seriously, instead of mocking Trump what would be your suggestions in how this can realistically be fixed? Obama had 8 years as president,what improvements did he make that made you feel safer?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I think there's a lot you could do. Ensure schools have the proper security mechanisms so shooters can't get in, police guards, make high velocity weapons like the Ar-15 much harder to buy, integration of background checks with other data systems, Congressional appropriations to actually collect good data to study the issues including making it a requirement for states to pass data to the feds, better health studies on the impact of violence in media, buy backs etc... etc....not all of this is easy to implement I understand.

The 2ndA doesn't need to be repealed, people can still have plenty of guns for self protection and sport. You may not be able to get them immediately and there may be some that are really hard to get. But we can be doing a hell of a lot more than we are now.

[detbuch]

Why is it the responsibility of the POTUS to stop mass shootings?

[Sea Dangles]

No argument here, but using your logic the police guard idea is bad because of the coward who refused to do his job.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

No argument here, but using your logic the police guard idea is bad because of the coward who refused to do his job.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Trump called him a coward not me. Police guards could still be effective if you can ensure there's limited modes of ingress. I know I can't get into my kids schools without being buzzed in through the front door. Not sure how the FL shooter managed to get inside.

The other thing to do is not treat all gun violence as the same. Suicides aren't the same as gang violence as mass shootings. We need to compartmentalize the issues for what they are and address accordingly.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

Trump called him a coward not me. Police guards could still be effective if you can ensure there's limited modes of ingress. I know I can't get into my kids schools without being buzzed in through the front door. Not sure how the FL shooter managed to get inside.

The other thing to do is not treat all gun violence as the same. Suicides aren't the same as gang violence as mass shootings. We need to compartmentalize the issues for what they are and address accordingly.

Jeff,any person leaving your sons school would most likely hold the door open for an intruder. Getting in is most likely easy for anybody with the desire. If you use your common sense you will conclude that it is not quite as easy as you may think. This pile of #^&#^&#^&#^& got thrown on Trumps lap,let's hope he takes steps to help fix things,unlike his predecessors. It's a problem that warrants broad discussion more than your typical party blame game. I understand the suicide part but how does gang violence differ from mass shootings,isn't the intent the same?
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Jeff,any person leaving your sons school would most likely hold the door open for an intruder. Getting in is most likely easy for anybody with the desire. If you use your common sense you will conclude that it is not quite as easy as you may think. This pile of #^&#^&#^&#^& got thrown on Trumps lap,let's hope he takes steps to help fix things,unlike his predecessors. It's a problem that warrants broad discussion more than your typical party blame game.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I've been in that situation many times and nobody has held the door for me or nor have I. Regardless if that's the only entrance and you have an officer or someone inside you have another layer. School start and stop are more open but that's just another facet.

I still don't understand how he was able to enter the building with a long-gun. Lots of layers of failure here but his easy access to the weapon and access to the building seem key alongside the FBI #^&#^&#^&#^& up.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

I've been in that situation many times and nobody has held the door for me or nor have I. Regardless if that's the only entrance and you have an officer or someone inside you have another layer. School start and stop are more open but that's just another facet.

I still don't understand how he was able to enter the building with a long-gun. Lots of layers of failure here but his easy access to the weapon and access to the building seem key alongside the FBI #^&#^&#^&#^& up.

You are sketchy looking so I am not exactly shocked. But if your wife is getting buzzed into the school and a kid who looks like he is a student runs up behind her to enter while wearing a long coat.......
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Trump called him a coward not me. Police guards could still be effective if you can ensure there's limited modes of ingress. I know I can't get into my kids schools without being buzzed in through the front door. Not sure how the FL shooter managed to get inside.

The other thing to do is not treat all gun violence as the same. Suicides aren't the same as gang violence as mass shootings. We need to compartmentalize the issues for what they are and address accordingly.

The guy is a coward (though I can't say I like the POTUS saying that on TV, I'd hate to see the guy commit suicide over this).

The problem, Spence, is that people are pointing to his failure to act, as evidence that armed guards in schools are not a good idea. His failure to act is irrefutable evidence that armed guards are not fool-proof, it's not evidence that it's not a good idea. Anyone who says "see, this guy didn't act, therefore let's not talk about armed guards in schools" is beyond thoughtless. It's not all we need to consider, it won't eliminate the problem.