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Sure, some will say this is the minority but I dont think so, this is consistent with most of the opinions I have heard at the occupy sites. yes, there were some wackos at the tea party protests but way less than here,,,,,'
'
Weren't you one of the ones arguing that even though the Tea Party rallies were full of nitwits, we shouldn't discount the cor principles of the movement?
the "core princilpes" of the Tea Party were demonstrated as they handed out pocket Constitutions, called for a return to the "core principles" that this country was founded on, held permitted rallys and cleaned up after themselves and slept in hotels rather than in the streets and parks of America.....
the "core principles" of this mob are on full display and unlike many of the claims that were made against the Tea Party which could not be substantiated, these jokers are happy to provide plenty of audio and video as evidence...
the former was/is calling for a rebuilding of America based adherence to it's founding principles
the latter is calling for(and has been for a long time) a destruction of America as founded and "fundamental transformation".....Obama just hasn't moved fast enough for their liking and they probably fear that they are running out of time.....
not that hard to understand...........
and don't call them socialists
interesting to note those that had nothing but disdain and venom for the Tea Party....and who is now lining up in support of these people
interesting to note those that had nothing but disdain and venom for the Tea Party....and who is now lining up in support of these people
Actually, I think most are lining up in support of their right to protest. I also think there is a lot of similarity between the grabbing of soundbites from crackpots or extremists on both sides to paint one as racist and the other as violent stoners (oxymoron?)
I'm pretty ambivalent on these Occupy protests.
do I think there a bunch of people there for the wrong reasons? Absolutely.
Do I think their message is clouded and multi-stung depending on which person you talk to.
Yup.
Are there a lot of them who are really just frustrated, and don't want the world handed to them, but just want to see more opportunities for jobs and careers? I think so. Will these protests go to that end? Probably not.
Bryan
Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
the "core princilpes" of the Tea Party were demonstrated as they handed out pocket Constitutions, called for a return to the "core principles" that this country was founded on, held permitted rallys and cleaned up after themselves and slept in hotels rather than in the streets and parks of America.....
the "core principles" of this mob are on full display and unlike many of the claims that were made against the Tea Party which could not be substantiated, these jokers are happy to provide plenty of audio and video as evidence...
the former was/is calling for a rebuilding of America based adherence to it's founding principles
the latter is calling for(and has been for a long time) a destruction of America as founded and "fundamental transformation".....Obama just hasn't moved fast enough for their liking and they probably fear that they are running out of time.....
not that hard to understand...........
and don't call them socialists
interesting to note those that had nothing but disdain and venom for the Tea Party....and who is now lining up in support of these people
johnny, scott sums it up. The wacko percentage is much higher with this bunch. As analysis has proved the tea party is made up of WORKING people....ie taxpayers. Id love to see the analysis of incomes and taxes paid by this crew. Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
I think the people bringing up the tea party are are bringing them up in support of their rights to protest
clarified...
Bryan
Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
Scott W nailed it. The Tea Party and this group of anarchists, could not have LESS in common.
There were zero cases of mass arrests at Tea Party rallies. The OWS group is nothing but a feral, radical, anarchist, marxist mob. Every single occupation is a violation of local laws, where they are daring elected officials to enforce duly constituted laws.
On a positive note, they are also doing more damage to Obama than anyone else could, because they are forcing him to side with them, which will only alienate Obama from the moderates he needs (and ain't gettin') to win in 2012.
I think the people bringing up the tea party are are bringing them up in support of their rights to protest
clarified...
they got permits, they showed up, they cleaned up after themselves and they left...rights + responsibilities
these peole have shown up, overstayed their time and are making a mess and harassing the people that also have a "right" to the various locations
no comparison...sorry
I heard a long interview with two of the Ocupy Prov. organizers the other day who had little to offer with regard to what exactly their purpose was "spokesmen"........ but the money quote from them was..."we decided that we could sit in our office all day and complain that grants and funding weren't coming in...or we could get out there and do something"...so now they are camped out on the street with a bunch of losers ...
I also think there is a lot of similarity between the grabbing of soundbites from crackpots or extremists on both sides to paint one as racist and the other as violent stoners (oxymoron?)
That is not how RIJimmy sees it. As he repeatedly does, if he can find a video or a report of someone from the party he hates, he states it is indicitive of that whole party.
The demographics seem much different b/t the 2 groups. The teabaggers where much older folks so comparing income levels is laughable.
but just want to see more opportunities for jobs and careers? I think so. .
And how does storming the Brooklyn Bridge, throwing a brick through a bank window, or urinating in a public park, increase one's chances of landing a productive job, exactly?
The demands I see include a $20/hr minimum wage, and immediate forgiveness of all debt (student loans, credit card debt, mortgage debt).
Do you know what the unemployment rate would be if the minimum wage was $20 an hour?
Their demands can be summed up thusly...GIMME, GIMME, GIMME!
Their demands can be summed up thusly...GIMME, GIMME, GIMME!
And the teabaggers demands can be summed up in "I don't want to pay any taxes for anything or want any of my taxes to go to support anyone less fortunate than myself"
2 extremes which don't represent the vast majority of the population.
That is not how RIJimmy sees it. As he repeatedly does, if he can find a video or a report of someone from the party he hates, he states it is indicitive of that whole party.
The demographics seem much different b/t the 2 groups. The teabaggers where much older folks so comparing income levels is laughable.
Paul, I research, I listen, I learn. Nice try but I have read everything I could on the occupy movement, liberal talk radio, you name it. Do some searching and you will clearly see that the majority are people who are looking for handouts. The web is FULL of these idiots. FULL. The demographics ARE NOTthat different from the tea party- many occupy people are 30s, 40s, 50s. The difference in income levels is that tea parties busted their butts to make money, occupy people took student loans to study sociology, french art and now cant afford to pay the loans. Waa, waa, waa.
And the teabaggers demands can be summed up in "I don't want to pay any taxes for anything or want any of my taxes to go to support anyone less fortunate than myself"
2 extremes which don't represent the vast majority of the population.
PaulS, the demands I posted are actual demands from the occupiers websites. That is irrefutable FACT. A $20/hr minimum wage and elimination of all debt. I'm not making that up, that's what they say they want.
You respond by making up radical jibberish (not wanting to pay any taxes) that are positions that have never been endorsed by the Tea Party. Go ahead PaulS, you post a link showing where any official Tea Party group said they don't want to pay any taxes.
The Tea Party does NOT want a 0% tax rate. We want responsible, sustainable tax rates. If that sounds radical to you, so be it. But don't compare that position to the notion that we can eliminate all debt with the push of a button.
I'm sorry if the actual facts make liberals seem deranged, but don't take that out on Tea partiers.
You may also be interested to know (though I doubt it) that conservatives have been shown to actually be more generous than liberals (more likely to donate time to charity, more likely to give $$ to charity, more likely to give blood). This makes sense to me, as conservatives are more religious, as a group, than liberals. The study was called Who Really Cares, and here is an analysis of it from the New York Times, which even though it's a liberal rag, could not refute it.
Here you go paul......remember, these kids are EDUCATED. Im not quoting the few random rednecks at a tea party rally.
Hmmm Paul, I guess I missed this type of dialog at the rea party rallies.....are you a history buff? Any memory of what was the underlying themes behind hitler and stalin? They hated the banks and the 1%
for you baby -
Every newscast I have seen of the occupiers is of 20 somethings with a small mixture of older folks. The teabaggers were much, much older - and from many of the comments I saw, I would call them idiots, morans, selfish bastards, etc. HA, HA, HA
I don't doubt that cons. donate more to charities. But isn't a large % of it self serving and going to their churches - I know a large part of my donations goes to my church?
Shouldn't you also be commenting on their looks?
The *ant* works hard in the withering heat and the rain all summer long,
building his house
and laying up supplies for the winter.
The *grasshopper* thinks the *ant* is a fool and laughs and dances and plays
the summer away.
Come winter, the shivering *grasshopper *calls a press conference and
demands to know why the *ant* should be allowed to be warm and well fed
while he is cold and starving. *
CBS, NBC , PBS, CNN,* and *ABC*
show up to provide pictures of the shivering *grasshopper *next to a video
of the *ant* in his comfortable home with
a table filled with food.*
America is stunned by the sharp contrast. *
How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor *grasshopper *
is
allowed to suffer so? *
[QUOTE=PaulS;896180]Shouldn't you also be commenting on their looks?
QUOTE]
should I? In my teens and 20s I had hair down to my mid-back, I was nicknamed "Jerry" because I always wore tie dies, I had both ears pierced multiple times and I have many tattoos.
I never asked for a dime from anyone, played in bands, travelled all over the country. I look at the world as my oyster. Nothing holds me back. Some hippie, free thinking types whine and complain about their student loans, others start apple computer and change the world. Whats the difference? The answer is in the mirror.
dont blame the banks, wall st or the government.
Sorry, I can't see videos at work. But again, I'm sure your pulling a video (probl. off a radical right wing website) and attributing it to a whole party.
Why would I care that one person is complaining about his brothers student loans? Just as I didn't cry about a couple of people holding up a Hitler sign w/Obama's photo.
I am providing evidence of the core of the movement, you will choose to ignore it. Here is CBS news stating that student loans are a big part of the beyotch. This guy is in boston.
In Boston, I've had open positions for MONTHS, publicly posted. Funny his resume never came past my desk......maybe I should have checked the walls of coffee houses for his resume. Maybe a Harvard grad never heard of networking?
Whatever the case, I'm sure its "the mans" fault.
Sorry, I can't see videos at work. But again, I'm sure your pulling a video (probl. off a radical right wing website) and attributing it to a whole party.
Why would I care that one person is complaining about his brothers student loans? Just as I didn't cry about a couple of people holding up a Hitler sign w/Obama's photo.
nope, sorry, not a radical web site. One called "youtube". Search for your self.
lets hear it straight from the horses mouth - from one of the occupy websites....
Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending “Freetrade” by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.
Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.
Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.
Demand four: Free college education.
Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.
Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.
Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America’s nuclear power plants.
Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.
Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.
Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.
Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the “Books.” World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the “Books.” And I don’t mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.
Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.
Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.
These demands will create so many jobs it will be completely impossible to fill them without an open borders policy.
Hey Paul S, would you please tell us all where you gotthe idea that tea partiers don't want to pay any taxes, and that they don't want to lift a finger to help anyone less fortunate?
EITHER TELL US WHERE YOU GOT THAT IDEA, OR KINDLY ADMIT THAT YOU MADE IT UP IN ORDER TO DEMONIZE THOSE WITH WHOM YOU DISAGREE.
Hint: we all know you made it up, which is precisely what liberal ideologues do, when you inevitably back them into a corner by exposing their ideas as the stupid jibberish that they clearly are. Instead of admitting that a $20 minimum wage is stupid, you try to cast tea partiers as "more" stupid. And since no tea partier has ever actually said anything more stupid than that, you can only accomplish your goal by fabricating lies about what we stand for.
That's the definition of intellectual dishonesty.
Finally, if you can only refute tea party positions by inventing lies about them, doesn't that mean that we maybe have a valid point?
PaulS, if you have a youtube video of a tea party spokesman saying he wants to pay no taxes, please share it. Because I would not want to identify with a group that said such things.
As to your claim of what the occupiers want...you are refusing to admit what they are actually saying, things like debt elimination.
You did bring up a point about the rich getting richer. Allow me to address that.
EARTH TO PAULS, SPENCE, AND OBAMA...
Yes, the rich usually get richer. Guess what? That doesn't do a SINGLE THING to reduce the chances of a poor person getting rich. PaulS, repeat this..."wealth is not finite, it's not like a pizza". If Warren Buffet earns another million today (and he will), that DOES NOT mean that there's a million less for the rest of us.
For the most part, the existence of rich folks has NO DETRIMENTAL impact to anyone else. In fact, we are BETTER OFF thanks to rich folks, because they pay a whole lot of taxes (reducing the burden on the rest of us), they give a lot to charity, and many of them create jobs.
Bill Gates and Oprah Winfey aren't holding anyone else back. They might make easy villains to simple-minded marxists, but the facts don't even come close to backing that up.
Instead of admitting that a $20 minimum wage is stupid
absolutely stupid. you don't deserve $20.00hr to flip burgers.
What is not stupid is the idea that we need more jobs in this pay range (something like $15-20/hr). Probably in the manufacturing sector.
I'm not siding with the Occupy protests. but I do believe it is/was originally rooted in a frustration not born out of 'laziness' or a sense of entitlement. Maybe thats what dominating it now...
banishing all debt is also stupid. putting in some ways to make the payback of the loans less crippling is not.
but, I have an undergraduate and graduate degrees (neither in sociology or french art BTW) w/ zero debt. parents helped alot w/ undergrad. moral support only during grad.... I've worked in or out of my field to stay (barely) in the black so I'm only an onbserver on the loan issue.
Bryan
Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
Paul, how do you feel about demand #2 in RIJimmy's post?
Conservatism is not about leaving people behind. Conservatism is about empowering people to catch up, to give them tools at their disposal that make it possible for them to access all the hope, all the promise, all the opportunity that America offers. - Marco Rubio
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