Bailing out GM

[UserRemoved1]

WTF is with these people that feel the need to get money from the govt? Hey if I frig my business up and have too many employees, make too much inventory, and generally couldnt sell my product because the economy turned downward why would it be ok for me to get a bailout??

They made their beds. NOW LIE IN IT. GM is the ones who gave these execs $50 gajillion dollars a year. Hey they didn't have to do that. They could have automatically curbed what they paid people 2 years ago when they SHOULD have seen the writing on the wall.

Look at all the cash they would have had then. Let the guys make $500k a year which is a great days pay ($1400 a DAY...$41,000 a MONTH) This is just downright frikkin STUPID if they bail these guys out.

If they bail GM out I'm calling my state Senator and asking for a bailout too.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

[RIJIMMY]

yup

[striperman36]

but we bail out the financial dudes, but not the blue collar work force?

[RIJIMMY]

just my 2 cents,

lets say your garbage man goes out of business, the town would have to pitch in and either pick up the garbage or bail out the garbage man, he provides an essential service.
The bailout of the banks is needed because they provide an essential service. They are the core of our economic engine. Can you say the same for GM?

Just food for thought.

[UserRemoved1]

RI JIM I see what your saying and said the same thing to myself before I posted this....but if there's more than one garbage man that can pickup the trash then again why bail them out?

Sure it's jobs...sure it keeps money flowing in the economy through the manufacturing and through distribution-dealers etc...

But if it's poorly managed and you don't pay attention to your business while you give millions away without thought for your future then why use tax dollars that you and I pay to bail them out. Like I said earlier...they made their beds now lie in it...

GM says they'll be out of cash by the spring. SO DO SOMETHING TO RAISE CASH to get you through the rough time. So you don't make a billion in profits...break even if you have to. LOSE money if you have to in the long run but DO SOMETHING to raise some funds.

THIS would be the kickstart to any economy...sell goods...need inventory....buy more...other companies sell their goods...then they need inventory....pretty soon everyone is smelling roses all down the line.

How taking tax dollars and putting it into a PRIVATE investor owned company makes ANY sense is absolutely beyond me as a business owner for 19 years. If the writing on the wall is saying things are going to slow down for sales then you don't stock so much stuff...you don't manufacture so much stuff...This has been going on for how long now? The fact that they all of a sudden have their hands out for a bailout is laughable.

JUST in the last 2 days now the whining has increased TEN fold.

[RIJIMMY]

i agree, I am against any bailouts. let 'em fail.
Just posting the rationale behind it.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Here's your tax dollars hard at work...I say the hell with all of them. How many people's annual salary did they just blow on a couple of days of partying...

Another AIG Resort "Junket": Top Execs Caught on Tape

Even as the company was pleading the federal government for another $40 billion dollars in loans, AIG sent top executives to a secret gathering at a luxury resort in Phoenix last week.

Brian Ross investigates the AIG executives' latest "business seminar."
Reporters for abc15.com (KNXV) caught the AIG executives on hidden cameras poolside and leaving the spa at the Pointe Hilton Squaw Peak Resort, despite apparent efforts by the company to disguise its involvement.

"AIG made significant efforts to disguise the conference, making sure there were no AIG logos or signs anywhere on the property," KNXV reported.

A hotel employee told KNXV reporter Josh Bernstein, "We can't even say the word [AIG]."

A company spokesperson, Nick Ashooh, confirmed AIG instructed the hotel to make sure there were no AIG signs or mention of the company by staff.

"We're trying to avoid confrontation, keep our profile low," said Ashooh. "Some of our employees have been harassed."

What do they have to hide," asked Congressman Elijah Cummings (D-MD) who said he had been promised by AIG CEO Edward Liddy that the company would stop such "junkets."

"They came to us and said they were drowning and needed help. A person who is drowning doesn't jump up and start partying," said Congressman Cummings.

Cummings said Liddy should resign as AIG CEO.

The AIG spokesman said Cummings "was mistaken" about the nature of the Phoenix event.

"It's terrible," said former AIG chairman Hank Greenberg. "I don't think the left hand knows what the right hand is doing there."

AIG came under fire last month when Congressional investigators revealed its executives attended a seminar for independent insurance agents at another luxury resort, in Southern California.

The AIG spokesman said the meeting in Phoenix was for independent financial advisors and "was the kind of thing we have to do to run our business."

Company officials confirmed the company spent an estimated $343,000 to sponsor the 2008 Asset Management Conference. A spokesperson said much of the cost would be recouped from product sponsors at the conference.

KNXV said the president of AIG unit Royal Alliance Associates, Art Tambaro, stayed in a two-story Casita suite and worked out at the spa while others participated in seminars.

Tambaro and other AIG executives declined to comment when approached by KNXV.

Reporters for abc15.com (KNXV) caught the AIG executives on hidden cameras poolside and leaving the spa at the Pointe Hilton Squaw Peak Resort, despite apparent efforts by the company to disguise its involvement.The AIG spokesman said the Casita suite was provided for free by the hotel because it had booked so many rooms.

AIG confirmed that former football quarterback Terry Bradshaw had been scheduled to appear and sign autographs. The company said it canceled Bradshaw's appearance which was to have been paid for by another company that was a sponsor of the event.

AIG said it conducted a "top to bottom review" of expenses "to validate that only expenses required to ensure the meeting's success are incurred."

The president of the AIG Advisor Group, CEO Larry Roth declined to speak to KNXV.

In a written statement, he said "We take very seriously our commitment to aggressively manage meeting costs." He said financial planners were charged a registration fee and for their travel.

[Joe]

Let the jobs sink, cut social services and unemployment benefits, and let the displaced workers beg in the streets like they do in Calcutta, they did not vote for McCain anyway, so f-them. The bankers are good republicans, so that's different.
Or, maybe we should weigh whether or not a bailout will allow the auto industry to continue and re-tool and survive and prosper when times are better, or if it won't, before we decide. I'm for looking at it a little more before a knee-jerk decision is made.
Its not just the jobs at GM that are at stake, in states like Ohio, Michigan a huge part of the economy is tied to the auto industry between aftermarket replacement part manufacturers and subcontractors - its a huge industry to concede.
GM is leading the way on developing an electric car, the Chevy Volt - its almost at the delivery stage, interesting that they should sink when they are on the cusp of a disruptive technology.

[RIJIMMY]

Joe, how is this a political argument?
its the New Orleans scenario.....do you keep rebuliding something that you know will be destryoed again or do you move on and find higher ground?

When do we stop bailing? Computer companies, airlines, food manufacturers? To Saltys point, it peoples job to be planning for the business, if they fail, they planned poorly and should lose their jobs. Pumping money into a business that loses money will only mean more lost money.

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Here's your tax dollars hard at work...I say the hell with all of them. How many people's annual salary did they just blow on a couple of days of partying...

In a written statement, he said "We take very seriously our commitment to aggressively manage meeting costs." He said financial planners were charged a registration fee and for their travel.

And we bail out these guys?

[Joe]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Joe, how is this a political argument?
its the New Orleans scenario.....do you keep rebuliding something that you know will be destryoed again or do you move on and find higher ground?

When do we stop bailing? Computer companies, airlines, food manufacturers? To Saltys point, it peoples job to be planning for the business, if they fail, they planned poorly and should lose their jobs. Pumping money into a business that loses money will only mean more lost money.

If we prescribe to darwinian economics at this point in time, then no industry is going to be viable - including yours. It the auto industry collaspes, its going to hasten the avalanche.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Joe

If we prescribe to darwinian economics at this point in time, then no industry is going to be viable - including yours. It the auto industry collaspes, its going to hasten the avalanche.

I dont think that its darwinian economics.........just economics. Or at least that what they called it when I went to school.

[striperman36]

Challenge the Automakers with.
Increase fleet consumption to 35 mpg in 5 years.
Increase alternate energy vehicles fleet by 500 pct in 5 years
Reduce model to market times by 75%

Meet with the Automakers and the Unions, come to some kind of benefit accord.

Agree to those targets and we'll give you bucks,

[Joe]

This is an unprecedented crisis - its not a good idea to take no action. Its not a good idea to throw good money after bad either.
Where should it end? What should we do?
I think we should evaluate on a case by case basis, whether or not steps can be taken to save major industries that employ vast numbers of people and if taking those steps is a worthwhile measure.
Saying that a failing business in the midst of a once in seventy years crisis is a poorly managed business is an oversimplification.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by striperman36

And we bail out these guys?

3 times...

[EarnedStripes44]

Apparently the Las Vegas Sands Corp., is in big trouble too. Stock price has been dropping like a rock from 122 to 7 bucks a share over the past year. Not gonna be a good year for Vegas.

[PaulS]

for some reason the car manuf. bother me much more than the financial industry. If they hadn't fought against increased CAFE standards for years, they might have some cars that appeal to the public.

[Nebe]

Right here right now is trickle down economics amplified times 10. The notion that by bailing these companies out is going to solve the problem is ludacris. When dozens of millions of people are flat broke and their credit rating is cooked and their cards are maxed out and they cant refinance thier home to come up with some money, how the %$%$%$%$ are the large companies that have been bailed out supposed to sell anything????

Lets take the trillions of dollars dedicated to a bail out and divide it up amongst every citizen and put it on a prepaid visa card and say 'spend it in 30 days, or your going to loose it'.. That is an economic bailout...The thing is this.. if we do that, its looked at as socialism.

I say let GM fail, OR give huge stipulations that any balout money has to go to the development of alternative energy vehicles.. THIS is the time to do it. But to bail them out so they can make more gas hog SUV's is insane.

[UserRemoved1]

YEA and one that any business owner could see a downturn coming too. Sure they employ lots of people but they've never been shy about layoffs before and they kept building building building. Look at any car lot right now will show proof of that. I'd be willing to bet the staging yards are stocked full still...

My point was this writing was on the wall not just last week. It's been there for a long time. Cut the fat raise some cash and move forward like any other business would. Don't rely on sticking your hand out for a gimme...Why should MY or YOUR tax dollars be used and then ultimately RAISED to put into some fat-cat exec who has a 35 million dollar house and makes 7.5 million a year. I DON'T think it's right.

Look at the link TDF posted. They havent done squat they're still pissing it away...what will they do next spring stick their hands out again? Yea they probably will because to them it's free money.

Originally Posted by Joe

This is an unprecedented crisis - its not a good idea to take no action. Its not a good idea to throw good money after bad either.
Where should it end? What should we do?
I think we should evaluate on a case by case basis, whether or not steps can be taken to save major industries that employ vast numbers of people and if taking those steps is a worthwhile measure.
Saying that a failing business in the midst of a once in seventy years crisis is a poorly managed business is an oversimplification.

Another classic example. People's extra money isn't there to piss it away on gambling. Should we start bailing out casino's now? These people make/have made hundreds of millions A DAY in profit. Another case same as above.

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

Apparently the Las Vegas Sands Corp., is in big trouble too. Stock price has been dropping like a rock from 122 to 7 bucks a share over the past year. Not gonna be a good year for Vegas.

[UserRemoved1]

: claps: NEBESTRADAMOUS you are so right.

Originally Posted by Nebe

Right here right now is trickle down economics amplified times 10. The notion that by bailing these companies out is going to solve the problem is ludacris. When dozens of millions of people are flat broke and their credit rating is cooked and their cards are maxed out and they cant refinance thier home to come up with some money, how the %$%$%$%$ are the large companies that have been bailed out supposed to sell anything????

Lets take the trillions of dollars dedicated to a bail out and divide it up amongst every citizen and put it on a prepaid visa card and say 'spend it in 30 days, or your going to loose it'.. That is an economic bailout...The thing is this.. if we do that, its looked at as socialism.

I say let GM fail, OR give huge stipulations that any balout money has to go to the development of alternative energy vehicles.. THIS is the time to do it. But to bail them out so they can make more gas hog SUV's is insane.

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by striperman36

Challenge the Automakers with.
Increase fleet consumption to 35 mpg in 5 years.
Increase alternate energy vehicles fleet by 500 pct in 5 years
Reduce model to market times by 75%

Meet with the Automakers and the Unions, come to some kind of benefit accord.

Agree to those targets and we'll give you bucks,

Like I said, take a stand with them. I don't care if it sounds like socialism or federalism.

[BigFish]

Scott I agree 100%! Whats good for the goose isn't good for the gander!! Small business gets in trouble....hey thats the way the cookie crumbles...nothing in it for the big government folks but a big corporation goes belly up....well the big payoffs to governments reps and palm greasing might come to an end so lets save their ass!!! This is such bull%$%$%$%$!!!! I was not for the bank bailout and I sure as Sheboygan am not for bailing out the friggin' automakers!!! What next....Exxon doesn't show a profit so we have to bail their ass out too???!!! Who is bailing our asses out???? Can anyone tell me that??!!!!

[BigFish]

I love how they say "The Taxpayers" own X amount of % of the loan institutions we just bailed out and that we stand to make money!!!! How the "F" are we gonna make money??? Where are we gonna benefit from this financially!!!!!???? Its just the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer and if any of you think we should keep bailing these companies out man are you stupid!!!

If we bail out the car makers might we see a better deal on cars because "WE" (ya right) own a % of them because we bailed them out???!!! Can we go to a swanky resort in Arizona too???!!!

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by BigFish

I love how they say "The Taxpayers" own X amount of % of the loan institutions we just bailed out and that we stand to make money!!!! How the "F" are we gonna make money??? Where are we gonna benefit from this financially!!!!!???? Its just the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer and if any of you think we should keep bailing these companies out man are you stupid!!!

If we bail out the car makers might we see a better deal on cars because "WE" (ya right) own a % of them because we bailed them out???!!! Can we go to a swanky resort in Arizona too???!!!

You could the Friends and Family discount from GM

[BigFish]

You ain't kiddin' Striperman....this is getting pretty bad and its about to get worse!!! Where will this end and when will we see that 70 BILLION DOLLARS again???? If ever!!

[striperman36]

Oops, I already get the Friends and Family.
Just got a new mule on the horse farm.
38 pct off of invoice, 0 pct for 6 years, fully loaded Suburban.
25K cost.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

YEA and one that any business owner could see a downturn coming too. Sure they employ lots of people but they've never been shy about layoffs before and they kept building building building. Look at any car lot right now will show proof of that. I'd be willing to bet the staging yards are stocked full still...

My point was this writing was on the wall not just last week. It's been there for a long time.

This crisis is different b/c people aren't buying cars b/c they can't get credit which is a result of the banks not lending $. The car dealers are being impacted due to the banks being in trouble and not wanting to lend. One of the problems is that the gov. gave banks $ but the banks aren't using it to lend. Their sitting on it and want to use it for acquistions (which wasn't the intent of the loan). The next bunch of loans from the gov. is going to have more restrictions on them - no AIG style junkets (which is prob. being overblown), you have to lend the $, you can't pay huge bonus', etc.

[striperman36]

Who can't get credit?
I got a 60 mo 5.49 pct loan for a used vehicle on Saturday.

[BigFish]

I do not agree with that PaulS...the auto industry was in a tailspin before we bailed out the banks! The high cost of fuel set that in motion and the flailing economy! It was flailing before the bailout! This is such a pathetic joke I can't even believe it!!! The government bailing out companies with the money of the taxpayers!!!! When taxes go up soon....maybe some of you will also see the writing on the wall! The small people are struggling folks......thats us.....and nobody is going to bail us out...certainly not the government!!

[The Dad Fisherman]

I think I'm going to buy a 1/2 million dollar home this month then a new Escalade to tool around in......Can't afford it but what the hell.....then when they come to take them back because i can't pay for them i'll whine to the government to help me out....then When they send me a check....I'm taking the family to Disneyworld..WooooHoooo