US raid against Islamic State

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

bullsh*t.

the fact that we let girls
go to school, drive, and not force them to dress like ninjas, is enough to make them want to kill us all. the fact that i choose not to wear a beard is enough to make them
want to kill us all. appeasement isn’t a viable option here, nor should we aspire to it.

can you libs get one right, even by accident, once in a while?
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What drugs are you on, where does anything i wrote say appeasement is the thing to do.

Giving them ammunition for propaganda like the Orange Idiot did is foolish and equally as valuable as guns to them.

No human is born hating, they are taught to hate.

[Jim in CT]

to those who think the answer, or even part of the answer, is to make them like us more...consider the fate of Kayla Mueller.

Kayla was a young american girl, who was so moved by the pain of the syrian civil war, that she joined a humanitarian mission to work at a hospital there. she was kidnapped by ISIS, held for a time by the same exact guy we just killed. we know for a fact that he repeatedly tortured Kayla and raped her. eventually they killed her and dumped her body, her parents will
never even be able to bury her.

Pete and Got Stripers, I’d like for you to tell me what Kayla Mueller was doing that was so offensive to Muslims.

This war isn’t a misunderstanding that can be cleared up by putting ourselves in the other guys shoes. Bin Laden was educated and from a wealthy family, he wasn’t a lost, desperate soul.

And they named this mission after Kayla Mueller, hope she’s resting a little easier today.


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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What drugs are you on, where does anything i wrote say appeasement is the thing to do.

Giving them ammunition for propaganda like the Orange Idiot did is foolish and equally as valuable as guns to them.

No human is born hating, they are taught to hate.

you’re saying we should
avoid giving them recruiting propaganda. someone said that. it’s completely absurd. no matter what we do, unless we live exactly like them, they will hate us. hell, they hate other muslims who are only slightly different than they are.
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[scottw]

providing universal basic income and banning plastic straws over there would probably go a long way to solving our problems with the middle east

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Pete, this did not happen in a vacuum, overnight. What was the cause 20-30 years ago? 100 years ago? 500?

What changed 100 years ago when the Ottoman Empire was partitioned after WWI?




Has not been applied for decades and the results show.

When we began the so-called War on Terror after 9/11, we held the moral high ground not only in our own eyes but in the eyes of people around the world. We lost a great deal of that moral high ground over the years during incidents like Abu Ghraib and Nisour Square that showed our personnel behaving not much better than the people we fought. But even then, our Embassy spokespeople and public affairs staff were able to point to our justice system and explain that — unlike the terrorists — we have a foundational commitment to holding bad actors accountable. And we could differentiate between ourselves and the terrorists we killed because we were defending ourselves, not taking delight in death or coming close to sounding sadistic. Our friends and partners could see us claim that, though we have been at war in the Middle East for almost two decades, we don’t enjoy it and wish it were otherwise. We gave bin Laden a proper Muslim burial not because we cared about him, but because retaining the moral high ground meant showing respect for religion if not for the man. And we always talked about that killing as a necessity, not a delight. Trump, in using almost gleeful language that echoes language the terrorists themselves use when they talk about killing Americans, eroded some of our remaining moral high ground. And that, in turn, will make it more difficult to find or keep friends and partners we may need in the future. This is but one of America's strengths that Trump is throwing away.

I will give Trump credit for recognizing that it was critical to make sure that al-Baghdadi’s followers or those who might be inspired in the future do not see him as having died a hero or a martyr. But Trump, as usual, could not resist gilding the lily without apparent concern for the consequences.

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Then some of those same gloss over that austere religious scholar.

Reason # 136 you have Trump

The #WaPoDeathNotice was hilarious https://twitter.com/search?q=%23WaPo...ypeahead_click

Did you bother to read the obit or just decide to get baited by trolls?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you’re saying we should
avoid giving them recruiting propaganda. someone said that. it’s completely absurd. no matter what we do, unless we live exactly like them, they will hate us. hell, they hate other muslims who are only slightly different than they are.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I said that and it is in no way absurd, it may be hard.

Do you think it should be the policy of the United States to eradicate Muslims from the face of the earth?

If not, how do you propose to choose the good from the bad?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Did you bother to read the obit or just decide to get baited by trolls?

democrats and al-bagdude have a lot in common...I can understand why they would like to participate in the celebration of his life

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I said that and it is in no way absurd, it may be hard.

Do you think it should be the policy of the United States to eradicate Muslims from the face of the earth?

If not, how do you propose to choose the good from the bad?

it is absurd, because we know they’ll hate us no matter what. obama wasn’t nearly as offensive as trump is, now
many jihadists laid down their arms
because of obama’s charm? granted, spence probably had trouble functioning becUse he was always swooning, but i’m guessing obamas softer public stance and language, didn’t incentivize any jihadists into giving up the cause.

if trump had kept his
mouth shut, they’d find another propaganda tool. you’re talking about people who use adults with down’s syndrome as suicide bombers. they aren’t human, they’re filthy disgusting animals.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I

Do you think it should be the policy of the United States to eradicate Muslims from the face of the earth?

If not, how do you propose to choose the good from the bad?

muslims, no. jihadists, yes.

it’s not easy to differentiate, but when you know you’ve identified a bad one, trap him in a tunnel and sick the dogs like we did with this scumbag. better yet, wild hogs.

and it’s not our responsibility, but the worlds.
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[Jim in CT]

Pete and GS, what’s the evidence that ISIS recruits more jihadists when Trump speaks offensively, than they did when Obama was, what, more civilized and diplomatic?

i’m the first one to call out trumps offensive rhetoric, when it’s genuinely offensive. i loved what he said here. lived it. unfortunately for you, so do a lot of people
between the coasts.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Pete and GS, what’s the evidence that ISIS recruits more jihadists when Trump speaks offensively, than they did when Obama was, what, more civilized and diplomatic?

i’m the first one to call out trumps offensive rhetoric, when it’s genuinely offensive. i loved what he said here. lived it. unfortunately for you, so do a lot of people
between the coasts.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Once again you need "evidence" that what Trump did as opposed to what both Obama and Bush did was misguided.

The death of ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi on Saturday is being celebrated as a major victory, but terrorism and national security experts warn his death could serve as a recruitment tool for the terror group — and that Baghdadi's death doesn't signal the end of the fight against ISIS.

Despite the fall of its so-called caliphate and Baghdadi's death, some experts say ISIS could actually become even more dangerous now — particularly given the nature of the terrorist leader's death.

"It is almost certainly the case that Baghdadi's 'martyrdom' will become a propaganda bonanza for Islamic State," Michael S. Smith II, a terrorism analyst and lecturer at Johns Hopkins University's Global Security Studies Program, said.

Baghdadi killed himself with a suicide vest as US commandos stormed his compound in Syria's northwestern Idlib province. Smith noted that the fact Baghdadi killed himself "versus being captured or killed by the US is a sign of strength in the imaginations of Islamic State's current members, and, crucially, prospective new recruits — particularly people who may be persuaded to perpetrate terrorist attacks here in the West."

Smith said that while it's "good practice" to put "iconic leadership figures" from groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda "out of business," it also "doesn't necessarily make the world a less dangerous place — and it can actually have the effect of improving a group's capabilities to recruit and incite violence, particularly here in the US."

President Donald Trump described Baghdadi as "whimpering, crying and screaming all the way" during the raid. This claim has not been backed up by any clear evidence or other administration officials with knowledge of the operation. And some experts have suggested the president's language could bolster ISIS's narrative that the US is anti-Muslim and imperialistic, which is central to its recruiting efforts.

Michael Leiter, who directed the US National Counterterrorism Center from 2007 to 2011, told Vox that Trump "exaggerated Baghdadi's importance" and "repeatedly used language" that "feeds into the ISIS and the Al Qaeda narrative about the US being at war with Muslims in nations throughout the world, as well as solely caring about our own pecuniary, economic interests like oil."

Leiter said that Trump also exhibited a "clear lack of historical appreciation for how these organizations rise, take hold, and are potentially defeated."

"To the president it all became about finding and killing this one individual," Leiter added. "That's important, but it's not how these terrorist groups are ultimately ousted."

As Javed Ali, a former White House counterterrorism director, put it to The Washington Post: "In the annals of modern counterterrorism so far, what history has shown is these types of strikes do not lead to the strategic collapse or organizational defeat of a terrorism organization."

Consecutive US military operations took out Baghdadi and ISIS spokesperson Abu al-Hassan al-Muhajir in Syria over the weekend. But according to Newsweek, which initially broke the story of Baghdadi's death, the terror group already has already designated a new leader: Abdullah Qardash. It also seems to be the case that Baghdadi had largely become a symbolic leader for ISIS and not intricately involved in the group's day-to-day operations.

Joshua A. Geltzer, a former senior director for counterterrorism on the National Security Council in the Obama administration, told The Independent, "Eliminating a terrorist leader of this significance and prominence is a major accomplishment for the intelligence and military personnel who made it possible. And it's a serious step in degrading ISIS's ability to continue radicalizing and recruiting."

But Geltzer also said that ISIS as a group is "bigger" than Baghdadi, adding that "this operation alone doesn't come close to overcoming the strategic error Trump made in abandoning America's top ground partners in the fight against ISIS — a fight that's far from over."

[Jim in CT]

Yes Pete, “evidence”. if
you’re going to say trump
put the world
at risk by spiking the football in his crass manner, i’d like evidence. shocker, you posted a huge piece written by someone else giving an anti trump opinion.

if trump’s
language makes recruiting easier, then there’s be evidence recruiting was harder when obama was in office. i have t seen any, you didn’t provide any.

i love his reaction to this. flail away, keep tilting at the orange windmill.

when you post an essay from someone who calls the caliphate “so called”, that tells us what we’re dealing with. an idiot.
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[Sea Dangles]

It’s guys like PeteF and GS that are certain the way Obama had Bin Laden killed did nothing to inspire future jihadists. The fruitcake has too much rum in it this year.

Wow
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[Pete F.]

Keep believing in his great and unmatched wisdom.
I heard he keeps it in his gut.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Keep believing in his great and unmatched wisdom.
I heard he keeps it in his gut.

keep lying about what i say.

there are no words derogatory enough for this guy we killed. That’s my $0.02.

You want to avoid insulting a man who kidnapped, raped, tortured, and murdered a young american girl. good for you.

i don’t like Trump’s divisive rhetoric. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t get one right once in awhile.


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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

keep lying about what i say.

there are no words derogatory enough for this guy we killed. That’s my $0.02.

You want to avoid insulting a man who kidnapped, raped, tortured, and murdered a young american girl. good for you.

i don’t like Trump’s divisive rhetoric. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t get one right once in awhile.


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

That's but a minor part of what he did.

I don't want to be a rhetorical tool for terrorists saying come help us against America look what they said and having easy video of our representatives to use in recruitment.

They have and will use it.

But you are ecstatic about Trumps self-aggrandizement and overtelling, so he accomplished his goal of exciting his base.
The collateral damage to our intelligence, residents overseas and military operations doesn't matter to you.
Winner

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I don't want to be a rhetorical tool

too late......

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by scottw

too late......

🍑🤡
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

There is a reason we dont shoot prisoners on or off the battlefield.. there was a reason why Torture was bad.. but somehow Toture became acceptable to some and now with Trumps spiking of the football over this guys Death.
AMERICA knew theses things were wrong . Regardless of how deserving they may have been. We always tried to be the example..

We now have Trump . Who think other Americans are human scum , disparage the CIA FBI and the DOJ. Seeks the assistance of foreign governments ..

Poll: 63% of voters say Trump asking Ukraine to probe Biden is a ..... that the president is soliciting foreign election interference.

Blaming it on hate and whataboutism . Isn't working for Republicans anymore
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by scottw

Cuz tulsi looks better in a bikini on a surfboard......duh??
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It’s about understanding your enemy and one of their recruitment tools is using stupid statements like that to whip up the hatred an$ draw in more recruits. Here let me put it in a way you might understand, it’s like an upcoming Patriots opponent going to social media and saying our defense is so overrated or calling Brady old and done, you don’t give your opponent fuel to fire up the troops. If Trump had a clue he would understand that.

Scott that response was meant for SD don’t know how that happened.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Scott that response was meant for SD don’t know how that happened.
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I’ll make sure he gets it
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[Got Stripers]

It’s for anyone who thinks a Trumps grandstanding and description of how the dog leader died is just stupid. To go further with the Patriots line, just do your job and zip it.
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by scottw

I’ll make sure he gets it
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This guy lives to hear himself talk. Peg must be ignoring him.
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[Got Stripers]

Nope good day, had one of my better rounds, shot 75 and then hoped I could pull your head out of the sand; but I’m afraid it’s just plain stuck.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Nope good day, had one of my better rounds, shot 75 and then hoped I could pull your head out of the sand; but I’m afraid it’s just plain stuck.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I'm glad that Trump calling a bloodthirsty mass murderer a "dog" didn't ruin your day.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

Did you bother to read the obit or just decide to get baited by trolls?

I read the headline of the obit, it was despicable. Baghdadi was arguably the worst human since Bin Laden, WaPo tried to Ansel Adams his Obit.

If they used "austere religious scholar" with the Dalai-Lama they might be technically correct but the commentariat would be near revolution.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

When we began the so-called War on Terror after 9/11, we held the moral high ground not only in our own eyes but in the eyes of people around the world. We lost a great deal of that moral high ground over the years during incidents like Abu Ghraib and Nisour Square that showed our personnel behaving not much better than the people we fought. But even then, our Embassy spokespeople and public affairs staff were able to point to our justice system and explain that — unlike the terrorists — we have a foundational commitment to holding bad actors accountable. And we could differentiate between ourselves and the terrorists we killed because we were defending ourselves, not taking delight in death or coming close to sounding sadistic. Our friends and partners could see us claim that, though we have been at war in the Middle East for almost two decades, we don’t enjoy it and wish it were otherwise. We gave bin Laden a proper Muslim burial not because we cared about him, but because retaining the moral high ground meant showing respect for religion if not for the man. And we always talked about that killing as a necessity, not a delight. Trump, in using almost gleeful language that echoes language the terrorists themselves use when they talk about killing Americans, eroded some of our remaining moral high ground. And that, in turn, will make it more difficult to find or keep friends and partners we may need in the future. This is but one of America's strengths that Trump is throwing away.

I will give Trump credit for recognizing that it was critical to make sure that al-Baghdadi’s followers or those who might be inspired in the future do not see him as having died a hero or a martyr. But Trump, as usual, could not resist gilding the lily without apparent concern for the consequences.

Yep - the US effed up several things there, and some people milked that situation for all it is worth, but still the most benevolent Army you will run into. Concede the Moral High Ground my a$$ - tell me Pete - who maintains a higher moral high ground, a higher standard than the US Military at war?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Yep - the US effed up several things there, and some people milked that situation for all it is worth, but still the most benevolent Army you will run into. Concede the Moral High Ground my a$$ - tell me Pete - who maintains a higher moral high ground, a higher standard than the US Military at war?

Nobody but
Appearance is everything
There’s always a tweet
At the request of many, I will be reviewing the case of a “U.S. Military hero,” Major Matt Golsteyn, who is charged with murder. He could face the death penalty from our own government after he admitted to killing a Terrorist bomb maker while overseas.
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Nobody but
Appearance is everything
There’s always a tweet

And there is the difference. It is not about goals (reducing terrorism, increasing stability) it is about the bad orange man.

You have achieved the remarkable, you have been able to stain Trump with Abu Ghraib - Outstanding.