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Old 05-06-2009, 10:01 AM   #1
Mr. Sandman
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Cutting closed eye hooks...why?

I see articles on guys cutting closed eyed trebles to attach on a plug. I never understood that. Use a strong split ring like wolverine triple or the really HD doubles. The weight of the split ring is not going to change the action of your plug....If your plug is that sensitive to that small weight change you should abandon that and fish something else.

I feel more uncomfortable about fishing with a cut hook eye than I do about a triple split ring opening.
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:09 AM   #2
The Dad Fisherman
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On Some plugs with 2 belly hooks when you use a split ring it lets the hook hang a little lower and they can foul with each other, BM Dannies and Cowboys come to mind on for that

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Old 05-06-2009, 10:16 AM   #3
Mike P
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VMC trebles with a ring are shorter than cut Mustads

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Old 05-06-2009, 10:19 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike P View Post
VMC trebles with a ring are shorter than cut Mustads
And cut VMC's are shorter than VMC's w/a ring...

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Old 05-06-2009, 10:19 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman View Post
On Some plugs with 2 belly hooks when you use a split ring it lets the hook hang a little lower and they can foul with each other, BM Dannies and Cowboys come to mind on for that

IMO that is a poor design. Hooks should never tangle with each other.
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:48 AM   #6
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May be a poor design....but there out there and thats why people cut the hooks.

You did ask Why, right

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Old 05-06-2009, 12:00 PM   #7
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Another example of why to use a cut VMC. SS Darter comes with 3/0 hooks. If you use 3/0 VMC and split you are fine, but if you go to a 4/0 in the front (as many people do for various reasons) the hook can hang on the front of the plug if you use a ring; not so with a cut hook.

I'd rather be fishing!
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Old 05-06-2009, 12:36 PM   #8
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Quote:
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And cut VMC's are shorter than VMC's w/a ring...
As well as weaker

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Old 05-06-2009, 02:02 PM   #9
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cut vmc4x strong

cut vmc 4x strong #3 and #4. Will not come undone unless the extreme circumstances arise, and I mean extreme. No split ring necessary on certain plugs, in fact the plug builders specify no split rings. Other very good plug builders use the split rings on almost everything they make. Unless your experimenting by making your own plugs go with the plugbuilers recommendation. If the lure does not catch, switch it, but in the end there is a good argument for both ways. Some lures I have added split rings and the hooks look like dangling mess! So then I use smaller hooks or a cut vmc4x strong with absolutly no worries.
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Old 05-06-2009, 07:04 PM   #10
Rob Rockcrawler
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I dont mind using the cut vmc's, but when i was replacing hooks this year the cut ones came off really easily after some time in the water last year. Easy enough where a good pull with my fingers snapped some of em off.

Everything is better on the rocks.
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Old 05-06-2009, 07:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman View Post
IMO that is a poor design. Hooks should never tangle with each other.
Bingo Sandman! My sentiments exactly! I think cut or open eye hooks are a huge mistake but hey.....to each his own!

Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:06 PM   #12
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Some plugs plain swim better with cut hooks. Split rings can add a extra swing path to the hooks and change the action of a plug.
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Old 05-07-2009, 11:07 AM   #13
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I'd like to see how cut hooks match up to hooks w/ split rings with regards to lost fish. To me, it seems that a fish can get much more leverage with cut hooks, even when on a swivel vs a screw eye or something. I never cut my hooks, but I also don't fish any plugs that would require it cut. I do have some old gibbs darters that I just refurbished and it appears as though they will require some cut hooks but we'll see.
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Old 05-07-2009, 11:31 AM   #14
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You want to know the real reason?

When you use split rings your hooks will rust very quickly, because the two metals react with one another. Cut your hooks and they will last a lot longer.

As for poor designs, that is a short-sighted way to look at it. Most wooden plugs were designed to be fitted with cut trebles and years of success has made many builders reluctant to tinker with something that has been working for decades.

And with regard to weakness, if you do the job properly nothing is going to straighten or break those hooks--that is unless you use 700-pound test.

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Old 05-07-2009, 11:34 AM   #15
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All that said, I use both

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Old 05-07-2009, 03:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canalman View Post

And with regard to weakness, if you do the job properly nothing is going to straighten or break those hooks--that is unless you use 700-pound test.
Agreed.

I've never seen one fail or known anyone I fish with to have one fail over 5+ years of cutting VMC's for plugs that require it. I'm not saying it doesn't or can't happen, just that it's rare.

When putting them on the amount you open them is critical. You should ideally almost have to force the wire of the swivel through the gap.

Some cutters make a slice that requires forcing the hook further open then others. Ones that cut straight through need to be opened further while those that cut at an angle don't require as much tweaking.

As Canalman said, there's a time and place for both.
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Old 05-07-2009, 06:15 PM   #17
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[QUOTE=Canalman;687005]You want to know the real reason?

When you use split rings your hooks will rust very quickly, because the two metals react with one another. Cut your hooks and they will last a lot longer.

Wouldn't they rust at the same speed since a cut hook is still in contact with the swivel?

Everything is better on the rocks.
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Old 05-07-2009, 06:24 PM   #18
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They rust fast anyway once the salinity from the fishes mouth gets on them.

Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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Old 05-07-2009, 06:57 PM   #19
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Anyone ever think that maybe the split rings wear off or cause damage to the VMC's coating and then the salt causes the metal under the coating to rust once the coating is compromised.
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:02 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Rockcrawler View Post
Wouldn't they rust at the same speed since a cut hook is still in contact with the swivel?
not only that but when when cutting don't you expose the unprotected/untreated inner area of the metal? so that should rust from the inside out even faster.

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Old 05-07-2009, 09:26 PM   #21
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IMO its a crapshoot, do what your most comfortable with, and is best for the plug. Neither is remarkably better than the other. I cut most hooks because I hate attaching split rings
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:47 PM   #22
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I agree with Sandman. I'm no expert on cut hooks, but I would always prefer a strong split ring. The chain is only as strong is it's weakest link. Buy the best line and change it often, same for leader material, invest in the best swivels and strongest hooks, etc. There is nothing more disappointing than loosing a big fish to failed equipment. I stopped using the non-through wired yozuri's for this reason. Rear hooks kept pulling out. Granted, one could argue that skilled fisherman should be able to land the fish with minimum stress on the gear. I guess I feel like I need every advantage I can get. When I lose a fish to anything but a spit hook I tend to be pretty hard on myself. I also won't hesitate to give myself a kick in the butt if I let him spit the hook. I remember being somewhat of a newbie in the boat at squibby one year and in my excitement in rough water I tightened the drag to move a fish that wouldn't budge. Lost the fish when the hook staightened. I learned a valuable lesson that day and won't make that decision again unless it's do or die like getting spooled or something. Great debate!
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Old 05-08-2009, 09:01 AM   #23
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Cut vmc's are the way to go. If you cut carefully, they won't fail you. Split rings sometimes will.
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:20 PM   #24
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I know what all you guys are saying--cause I said the same things, but try it and you will see that they last a lot longer.

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Old 05-12-2009, 12:56 PM   #25
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i have to say i can't stand the crummy mustads used on gibbs and some other plugs. i've had the eyes break on me while fighting fish and while dehooking them. I prefer the VMC's, myself. But seriously, what the hell are you guys cutting them with?? maybe i'll give it a try.

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Old 05-12-2009, 01:11 PM   #26
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you can cut them with manley pliers, small bolt cutters, end cutters. I use both but out of preference I like the cut VMC's.

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Old 05-12-2009, 01:37 PM   #27
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Braid line and graphite rods and reels with drags that can put mind boggling pressure have put a lot more stress in the system then the old glass rods with mono and reels with fairly lame drags in comparison. We finally got better hooks that hold up and the split rings failed. Now they make hd and triple rings, and non thru wired plugs broke, we buy/make thru wire plugs and the snaps break, they improved snaps and ...what's the next thing?

It seems we are trying to have no weak links in our gear, and then we "cut" the hook eye to fit a plug...seems like we are introducing a weak link. From an engineering standpoint, once you cut that hook, you have weakened the hoop-strength of the eye, integrity of the structure, and caused local deformation and now you can never be sure when it will break. Will it hold? probably...but the old mustad will probably hold as well. I bet there is a reason why VMC does not sell open eye trebles....I wonder if you asked the manufacture is it OK for fishermen to cut their hook and will they guarantee that it will not break. You know you could "cut" one of the main bridge elements as well and it will probably stay up for a while too but I wouldn't want to drive over it in a heavy vehicle.

Last edited by Mr. Sandman; 05-12-2009 at 01:46 PM..
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:59 PM   #28
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Habs contacted VMC about cutting hooks. They did not recomend it... That being said... I cut them when I feel I need to and don't worry about it. The hook will need to be replaced well before any metal fatigue makes it fail. At least in my experience.

Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement -- Keith Benning
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Old 05-12-2009, 06:30 PM   #29
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My first reaction to seeing someone cut a hook eye was a bad one...
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Old 05-12-2009, 07:40 PM   #30
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Open-eye siwash? Any issues?

Last edited by Pete_G; 05-13-2009 at 07:13 PM..
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