Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

     

Left Nav S-B Home Register FAQ Members List S-B on Facebook Arcade WEAX Tides Buoys Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Right Nav

Left Container Right Container
 

Go Back   Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating Striper Chat - Discuss stuff other than fishing ~ The Scuppers and Political talk Political Threads

Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-26-2017, 09:06 AM   #61
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman View Post
I may have bought that the very first time they did it, But when it was first done last year it was very evident that people were taking it as disrespectful. To keep doing it tells me they are very aware that it is being taken that way. Because I don't think they lack the intelligence to understand that.
That's a great post.

I don't think their intent is to insult the military. Nor was their intent to shed light on racial inequality. Their intent was to give the finger to Trump.

I don't think many of these guys are smart enough to scratch their name in the dirt with a stick, they have been pampered and sheltered their whole lives, I don't think they are capable of processing how the real world works anymore, they are too far removed.

Maybe you are right, maybe they consider the pain they are causing these military families and they just don't care. I like to think it's not that, but I cannot know for sure.

Either way, Trump wins this round, big time. The people who deny that, are the ones who still have no idea why he won.
Jim in CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 09:08 AM   #62
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
Pres. Trump's calling them "SOBs" after calling Neo Nazis' "fine people" threw fuel on the fire. ".
Not remotely what he did. He condemned the Nazis, again and again and again. You can't concede that, because it doesn't fit The Narrative.

The NFL wouldn't let the Cowboys honor assassinated police officers, then allowed this. THAT threw fuel onto the fire. Maybe a little, maybe more than a little. we'll see next week. Probably not much.
Jim in CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 09:13 AM   #63
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
Not remotely what he did. He condemned the Nazis, again and again and again. You can't concede that, because it doesn't fit The Narrative.No, he didn't. Every time he condemned the Nazis (and he only did it reluctantly) he made comments about antifa - those trying to equalize the 2. He even made the stupid comment that they didn't have a permit. And that is way almost all politicians (of both sides) criticized him.

The NFL wouldn't let the Cowboys honor assassinated police officers, then allowed this. THAT threw fuel onto the fire. Maybe a little, maybe more than a little. we'll see next week. Probably not much.
NM
PaulS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 09:38 AM   #64
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
NM
"time he condemned the Nazis (and he only did it reluctantly) he made comments about antifa "

Not true. He has been condemning racism in general, and Nazis in particular, since long before the Charlottesville protest. Find the videos, as you like to say, they are easily available in Google. Many of his public denunciations of Nazis, are not reluctant.

As regards the Charlottesville event, his wording was awful, and he deserves criticism for it. But outside of that, he has made no secret of his contempt for Nazis. But when he says "I condemn Nazis", and what you hear is "I think Nazis are fine people", well, that's more your issue than his issue.

Look at everything he has said and done on the subject of race, not just Charlottesville. Your side ensures that we will all have plenty of opportunity to comment on race, so don't judge him based on cherry-picked statements where he put his foot in his mouth, but on his whole record. None of us, not even Trump, are merely the sum of our mistakes.
Jim in CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 09:43 AM   #65
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post

But when he says "I condemn Nazis", and what you hear is "I think Nazis are fine people", well, that's more your issue than his issue.
I'm just going by what he said.


Look at everything he has said and done on the subject of race, not just Charlottesville. Your side ensures that we will all have plenty of opportunity to comment on race, so don't judge him based on cherry-picked statements where he put his foot in his mouth, but on his whole record. None of us, not even Trump, are merely the sum of our mistakes.
I always laugh at "your side" comments. Most people think of us as all on the "same side"
PaulS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 09:46 AM   #66
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,714
The fact that the Cowboys & Jerry Jones kneeled BEFORE that anthem & people still booed proves that the anger was never about the flag.
PaulS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 09:54 AM   #67
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
I always laugh at "your side" comments. Most people think of us as all on the "same side"
"I'm just going by what he said."

No, you are going by what you heard. Two very different things.

You're right, the left doesn't focus on race at all, no more so than the right.
Jim in CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 09:57 AM   #68
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
"I'm just going by what he said."

No, you are going by what you heard. From news broadcasts of Trump's speaches Two very different things.go back and read the transcripts.

You're right, the left doesn't focus on race at all, no more so than the right.
Have I claimed that? bc I can't recall doing that. Pls. point out where I said that.
PaulS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 10:05 AM   #69
The Dad Fisherman
Super Moderator
iTrader: (0)
 
The Dad Fisherman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 15,667
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
The fact that the Cowboys & Jerry Jones kneeled BEFORE that anthem & people still booed proves that the anger was never about the flag.
Was anybody on the Cardinals kneeling during the anthem? pretty sure there were two teams out there.

"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
The Dad Fisherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 10:09 AM   #70
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
The fact that the Cowboys & Jerry Jones kneeled BEFORE that anthem & people still booed proves that the anger was never about the flag.
so the home team Cardinals fans booed the visiting Cowboys????...so it ain't so !#@!???
scottw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 10:16 AM   #71
The Dad Fisherman
Super Moderator
iTrader: (0)
 
The Dad Fisherman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 15,667
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
so the home team Cardinals fans booed the visiting Cowboys????...so it ain't so !#@!???
Yeah, I just noticed they played at Arizona. So they all took a Knee, including the loveable Jerry Jones. And they came out and kneeled, which got the fans all riled up, then suddenly stood up.....and magically 60,000+ are just gonna stop booing the cowboys....

Well I'm Sold

"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
The Dad Fisherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 10:21 AM   #72
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman View Post
Was anybody on the Cardinals kneeling during the anthem? pretty sure there were two teams out there.
I read that there wasn't. They stood for the anthem.
PaulS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 02:48 PM   #73
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman View Post
Yeah, I just noticed they played at Arizona. So they all took a Knee, including the loveable Jerry Jones. And they came out and kneeled, which got the fans all riled up, then suddenly stood up.....and magically 60,000+ are just gonna stop booing the cowboys....

Well I'm Sold
I'm very curious to see what happens next weekend. I hope there are massive boycotts, I expect tiny boycotts.
Jim in CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 03:16 PM   #74
wdmso
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 1,525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
The protests last year were about race. The protests yesterday, were about Trump insulting them, let's not turn this into a march into Selma.
Yes Trump was insulting black players for taking a knee. Hence they all took a knee as a clear FU to Trump Not sure how you Missed the race side of it . But understood the FU side Easily?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
wdmso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 03:55 PM   #75
spence
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
spence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 16,789
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
Yes Trump was insulting black players for taking a knee. Hence they all took a knee as a clear FU to Trump Not sure how you Missed the race side of it . But understood the FU side Easily?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Funny how the fake outrage gets to define the spirit of the protesters...that's ripe.
spence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 08:28 PM   #76
detbuch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,744
This thread is stuck on stupid.
detbuch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 10:17 PM   #77
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
Yes Trump was insulting black players for taking a knee. Hence they all took a knee as a clear FU to Trump Not sure how you Missed the race side of it . But understood the FU side Easily?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Sigh. The protests last year, were about racial injustice. Almost none of the players paid attention, meaning they didn't care much about the issue being protested then. Then Trump shot his mouth off, so 200 players chimed in. Sunday's NFL protests had zero to do with racial injustice, and everything to do with hatred of Trump. That's fine, let's just not call it something other than it was.

I didn't hear Trump say that white players who protest, should keep their jobs. Therefore it wasn't about race. Good God, give it a rest. Does every single thing have to be about race when there is zero evidence of racial involvement? If he lobs the same exact insult at everybody regardless of race, then how in God's name is it racist, exactly?
Jim in CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2017, 03:29 AM   #78
wdmso
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 1,525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
Sigh. Then Trump shot his mouth off, so 200 players chimed in. Sunday's NFL protests had zero to do with racial injustice, and everything to do with hatred of Trump.

I didn't hear Trump say that white players who protest, should keep their jobs. Therefore it wasn't about race. Good God, give it a rest. Does every single thing have to be about race when there is zero evidence of racial involvement? exactly?

you tend to not hear anything or see its about Race at any time or place? thats what i find Odd when Trumps comments were clearly about who's Taking an Knee and the Vast Majority are Black (very clear ) ... But i guess if you sprinkle a white guy in here or there it changes things ...
wdmso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2017, 05:35 AM   #79
The Dad Fisherman
Super Moderator
iTrader: (0)
 
The Dad Fisherman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 15,667
Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch View Post
This thread is stuck on stupid.
I'd like to disagree, but.....

"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
The Dad Fisherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2017, 06:53 AM   #80
Got Stripers
Ledge Runner Baits
iTrader: (0)
 
Got Stripers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: I live in a house, but my soul is at sea.
Posts: 3,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch View Post
This thread is stuck on stupid.
For sure, hurricane devastation and Kim threatening EMP detonation or that we declared war on them and all everyone seems to be talking about is the NFL. Read a disturbing article on what the likely impact of any country attacking us with an EMP detonation and that was a very scary reality. Might be the only people smiling after that would be the survivalists, people with self contained water and solar power and an old style ham radio tower.
Got Stripers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2017, 10:21 AM   #81
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
you tend to not hear anything or see its about Race at any time or place? thats what i find Odd when Trumps comments were clearly about who's Taking an Knee and the Vast Majority are Black (very clear ) ... But i guess if you sprinkle a white guy in here or there it changes things ...
Wrong again.

I care deeply about injustice. But it has to be actual, real injustice...not made u[p, fabricated injustice. It's not remotely racist for Trump to call everyone who previously protested (blacks and whites) an SOB. It's not an elegant thing to say, it's not a presidential thing to say, it's probably not a smart thing to say. But it's not even a tiny bit racist.

Believe it or not, it's possible to feel critical of someone who isn't white, and not be in the Klan.

"the Vast Majority are Black "

Aha!!

So was Trump differentiating between those who are black, and those who are white? because if he lumped them all together, how can it be racist? He didn't say "fire the black ones, and give raises to the white ones". Skin color had absolutely zilch to do with it.
Jim in CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2017, 03:41 PM   #82
wdmso
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 1,525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
Wrong again.

Skin color had absolutely zilch to do with it.

and disrespecting the flag and the Military... had absolutely zilch to do with them taking a knee

But many here have jumped thru hoops to make it look like some how it was about that ... funny how that works
wdmso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2017, 07:51 PM   #83
detbuch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
and disrespecting the flag and the Military... had absolutely zilch to do with them taking a knee

But many here have jumped thru hoops to make it look like some how it was about that ... funny how that works
Kaepernick's own words: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

The flag is not just a piece of cloth in a certain shape and in various colors. It is a symbol. Colin did not choose to make his protest in a church, or a town hall or public square, or a letter to the Times, or in the halls of Congress, he specifically chose the playing of the national anthem as the time not to "show pride" in the flag, to protest against it and what, to him, it symbolizes.
detbuch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 04:01 AM   #84
wdmso
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 1,525
Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch View Post
Kaepernick's own words: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

The flag is not just a piece of cloth in a certain shape and in various colors. It is a symbol. Colin did not choose to make his protest in a church, or a town hall or public square, or a letter to the Times, or in the halls of Congress, he specifically chose the playing of the national anthem as the time not to "show pride" in the flag, to protest against it and what, to him, it symbolizes.
to bad Kaepernick's not in the NFL and this isn't about his. Taking a knee.

Is its much better to show our respect for the flag and wear it on a bandana or a swimsuit or pair of shorts or an outfit or shoes like Shara Palain... than taken a knee ..??
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Sarah Palin patriotic shoes.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	65.9 KB
ID:	64579  
wdmso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 05:35 AM   #85
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post

Is its much better to show our respect for the flag and wear it on a bandana or a swimsuit or pair of shorts or an outfit or shoes like Shara Palain... than taken a knee ..??
I believe that would be considered showing pride rather than disdain...I hope she's wearing a star spangled thong too

Last edited by scottw; 09-30-2017 at 05:43 AM..
scottw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 07:58 AM   #86
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,714
Isn't there a flag code or something similar about how to display the flag.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
PaulS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 09:48 AM   #87
detbuch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
to bad Kaepernick's not in the NFL and this isn't about his. Taking a knee.

Is its much better to show our respect for the flag and wear it on a bandana or a swimsuit or pair of shorts or an outfit or shoes like Shara Palain... than taken a knee ..??
I don't think the shoes Palin was wearing were actual flags. Nor were they a protest against the flag. If anything, as Scott noted, they were showing a symbolic pride in the stars and stripes. But if you think she was trying to show disrespect for the flag, that's you're opinion. If you think she was protesting the flag and what it represents, then you and Palin are probably not on the same philosophical wavelength. She didn't, as far as I know, make a public statement that the flag represented oppression.

Was your attached photo of Sarah's fashion statement somehow supposed to be evidence that Colin was not protesting the flag and what it represents?
detbuch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 11:33 AM   #88
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
Isn't there a flag code or something similar about how to display the flag.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
probably for an actual flag...you could Google that or something(I know..."snarky")....if burning an actual flag is an acceptable form of free speech and expression and anger I suppose wearing a likeness of the flag on a tee shirt or bikini as an expression of pride must be too right???.....

Last edited by scottw; 09-30-2017 at 11:48 AM..
scottw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 01:19 PM   #89
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
probably for an actual flag...you could Google that or something(I know..."snarky")....if burning an actual flag is an acceptable form of free speech and expression and anger I suppose wearing a likeness of the flag on a tee shirt or bikini as an expression of pride must be too right???.....
Actually I don't think that response is snarky. I don't think burning a flag while an expression of free speech would be an expression of pride.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
PaulS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 01:30 PM   #90
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post

I don't think burning a flag while an expression of free speech would be an expression of pride.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
that's a relief...do you have a problem with people wearing versions of it on clothing etc. as an expression of free speech and pride?...or is it just a Palin thing?

Last edited by scottw; 09-30-2017 at 01:47 PM..
scottw is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin. Copyright 2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Please use all necessary and proper safety precautions. STAY SAFE Striper Talk Forums
Copyright 1998-20012 Striped-Bass.com