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Old 11-28-2017, 04:09 PM   #61
The Dad Fisherman
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Who here demonstrates the hate you do? The tenor of this forum changed when you started posting here. Look at the hate you spew in almost all your posts.
Hey, I'll be the first to admit that when Jim arrived on the scene he hit it hard, filter removed, and guns a-blazin.....

But he has definitely dialed it way back the past couple of years. I don't see anything remotely hateful in this thread.

You just don't really like the guy's politics is all

"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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Old 11-28-2017, 04:29 PM   #62
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Agreed on both statements but the independent analysis say that on average the poor will pay more in taxes than they pay now while the rich will pay less in taxes than they pay now.
not sure what your definition of "poor" is but from what I understand the "poor" in this country are, in general, not paying any income tax and in many cases getting money through the earned income tax credit...

from Marketwatch..I think this was a 2015 analysis

On average, those in the bottom 40% of the income spectrum end up getting money from the government. Meanwhile, the richest 20% of Americans, by far, pay the most in income taxes, forking over nearly 87% of all the income tax collected by Uncle Sam.
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Old 11-28-2017, 04:33 PM   #63
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I am not an accountant. So I could absolutely be wrong here...

But when I heard about the doubling of the standard deduction, I was very glad to see that in there. I figured that cannot fail to put more money in the pockets of people who are, I presume, mostly lower middle class. Isn't that who uses the standard deduction?

That piece alone, must necessarily reduce taxes for these people. Is there another feature of the bill, that increases their taxes by more than the deduction lowers them?

This is an honest, sincere question, not sarcasm or hyperbole.
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Old 11-28-2017, 04:50 PM   #64
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I was just reading this about Pocahontas...too funny

touted after her hire at Harvard Law School as, yes, the school’s “first woman of color"


"My favorite Elizabeth Warren story involves a cookbook. Warren, who was at that time posing as a trailblazing Cherokee, actually contributed recipes to a recipe book with the name, I kid you not, “Pow Wow Chow.” But here’s the best part of the story. She plagiarized some of the recipes. Yes indeed, her version of “pow wow chow” came directly from a famous French chef. My second-favorite Warren story involves breastfeeding. She once claimed to be the first “nursing mother” to take the New Jersey bar exam, making her, I suppose, the Jackie Robinson of lactating lawyers. The problem? There’s no evidence this is true. Women have been taking the New Jersey bar since 1895, and the New Jersey Judiciary was “not aware” whether they tracked the nursing habits of test-takers. Warren is a bit of an academic grifter. She’s willing to fake her way to the top. When she came to Harvard Law School, she was — believe it or not — considered by some to be a “minority hire.” She listed herself as a minority on a legal directory reviewed by deans and hiring committees. The University of Pennsylvania “listed her as a minority faculty member,” and she was touted after her hire at Harvard Law School as, yes, the school’s “first woman of color.”
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Old 11-28-2017, 04:51 PM   #65
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I am not an accountant. So I could absolutely be wrong here...

But when I heard about the doubling of the standard deduction, I was very glad to see that in there. I figured that cannot fail to put more money in the pockets of people who are, I presume, mostly lower middle class. Isn't that who uses the standard deduction?

That piece alone, must necessarily reduce taxes for these people. Is there another feature of the bill, that increases their taxes by more than the deduction lowers them?

This is an honest, sincere question, not sarcasm or hyperbole.
I think the issue is they while they may double the standard deduction they also remove other exemptions and tinker with the rates so it's neutral or in some cases a net loss. The CBO report just hammered the Senate plan as a big hit on the middle class and will add substantially to our deficit spending.
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Old 11-28-2017, 05:01 PM   #66
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I think the issue is they while they may double the standard deduction they also remove other exemptions and tinker with the rates so it's neutral or in some cases a net loss. The CBO report just hammered the Senate plan as a big hit on the middle class and will add substantially to our deficit spending.
Someone has to cover the tax cuts for private jets, golf courses and hotels. Sheeeesh
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Old 11-28-2017, 05:30 PM   #67
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Hey, I'll be the first to admit that when Jim arrived on the scene he hit it hard, filter removed, and guns a-blazin.....

But he has definitely dialed it way back the past couple of years. I don't see anything remotely hateful in this thread.

You just don't really like the guy's politics is all
I don't think he's changed a bit.
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:15 PM   #68
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Neither have you Jeff
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:22 PM   #69
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I don't think he's changed a bit.
I give him credit where due, he doesn't immediately take a hard right turn to steer every topic to abortion like he did at first. So he's got that going for him... 😁😁😁😁😁
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Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
"For once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop"
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Old 11-28-2017, 08:48 PM   #70
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You may want to talk to this guy too then....
That was in response to Jim claiming a side. Good work on the selective quote though.
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My eyes is goin' crazy!
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Old 11-28-2017, 08:49 PM   #71
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You may want to talk to this guy too then....
That was in response to Jim claiming a side. Good work on the out of context quote though.
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My eyes is goin' crazy!
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Old 11-29-2017, 07:01 AM   #72
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That was in response to Jim claiming a side. Good work on the selective quote though.
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That was in response to Jim claiming a side. Good work on the out of context quote though.
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And that was in response to PaulS referring to the fact that considering members of a party a "Team" or "Side" is what's contributing to why our "Political Climate is so Decisive" (pretty sure he meant divisive)"

Good work on your lack of reading comprehension skills though

"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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Old 11-29-2017, 09:16 AM   #73
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And that was in response to PaulS referring to the fact that considering members of a party a "Team" or "Side" is what's contributing to why our "Political Climate is so Decisive" (pretty sure he meant divisive)"
What I mean and what Samsung Android here's are two different things LOL.

I can live with gyms see it just heard me say gyms instead of jim politics as I used to vote majority Republican. What I respond to is the constant insults. For someone so smart I think it brings him down
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Old 11-29-2017, 09:21 AM   #74
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And that was in response to PaulS referring to the fact that considering members of a party a "Team" or "Side" is what's contributing to why our "Political Climate is so Decisive" (pretty sure he meant divisive)"

Good work on your lack of reading comprehension skills though
Reading comprehension? You told Paul he should "talk to this guy" in reference to me using the word "side". I was quoting "side" from Jim. It isn't a reading comprehension problem on my part. You missed the context of my post. Side was Jim's word. Next time I will put it in quotes and add a footnote for you.

My eyes is goin' crazy!
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Old 11-29-2017, 12:36 PM   #75
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What I mean and what Samsung Android here's are two different things LOL.

I can live with gyms see it just heard me say gyms instead of jim politics as I used to vote majority Republican. What I respond to is the constant insults. For someone so smart I think it brings him down
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You said I care less about babies. I guess it's OK when you lob insults, no one else is supposed to stoop to that. Do I have that right?
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Old 11-29-2017, 01:05 PM   #76
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I wonder what type of woman Melania was to even sit w/him for 10 min. on the first date w/o getting up and walking away.

.
Same exact kind of woman Hilary is for getting through her first dinner date with Bill when he left the table to have a quickie with the coat-check girl.
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Old 11-29-2017, 02:21 PM   #77
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You said I care less about babies. I guess it's OK when you lob insults, no one else is supposed to stoop to that. Do I have that right?
Please post where I said that about you.

I only Respond to your anger with Posts in kind. Love the fetus care less about the baby seems to be the Republican way. Cut WIC, chip Etc
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Last edited by PaulS; 11-29-2017 at 02:29 PM..
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Old 11-29-2017, 02:21 PM   #78
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Same exact kind of woman Hilary is for getting through her first dinner date with Bill when he left the table to have a quickie with the coat-check girl.
Did he actually do that? Cuz if he did that's horrible. If not it's scummy of you even accuse someone of doing that.
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Old 11-29-2017, 03:55 PM   #79
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Did he actually do that? Cuz if he did that's horrible. If not it's scummy of you even accuse someone of doing that.
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Not that I know of. But neither do you know what happened during the first 10 minutes of Melania's first conversation.

Melania and Hilary, safe to say, both married for convenience, not love. You go ahead and deny that if it suits you.

Again, it's OK for you to speculate on what happened on the Trump's first date, but "scummy" for me to do the same exact thing with the Clintons.

You're not having a good couple of days here.
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Old 11-29-2017, 03:56 PM   #80
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Please post where I said that about you.

I only Respond to your anger with Posts in kind. Love the fetus care less about the baby seems to be the Republican way. Cut WIC, chip Etc
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"Please post where I said that about you"

Your post #47..."Love the fetus, care less about the baby"

"I only Respond to your anger with Posts in kind"

So when I respond to anger with my own anger, it means I have a character flaw. When you respond to anger with you own anger, hooray for you!!!
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Old 11-29-2017, 03:59 PM   #81
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"Please post where I said that about you"

Your post #47..."Love the fetus, care less about the baby"

"I only Respond to your anger with Posts in kind"

So when I respond to anger with my own anger, it means I have a character flaw. When you respond to anger with you own anger, hooray for you!!!
So I didn't say you care less about babies. You lied.
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Old 11-29-2017, 04:04 PM   #82
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Not that I know of. But neither do you know what happened during the first 10 minutes of Melania's first conversation.

Melania and Hilary, safe to say, both married for convenience, not love. You go ahead and deny that if it suits you.

Again, it's OK for you to speculate on what happened on the Trump's first date, but "scummy" for me to do the same exact thing with the Clintons.

You're not having a good couple of days here.
Yes I said I wonder what happened in the first 10 minutes of their date. You said Bill Clinton did something horrible and now you're admitting that you lied and it didn't happen after being called out on it. - too funny.
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Old 11-29-2017, 04:06 PM   #83
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So I didn't say you care less about babies. You lied.
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You said Republicans, which includes me, could care less about babies.

You feeling OK? You're acting like you're auditioning for a prime time spot at MSNBC.
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Old 11-29-2017, 04:08 PM   #84
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Yes I said I wonder what happened in the first 10 minutes of their date. You said Bill Clinton did something horrible and now you're admitting that you lied and it didn't happen after being called out on it. - too funny.
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"Yes I said I wonder what happened in the first 10 minutes of their date"

Sorry, that's not even close to what you said. You wondered what kind of woman Melania is, for not getting up and leaving within those first 10 minutes, which necessarily means you are assuming he was a jerk. Not a bad assumption, by the way. Nor is it a bad assumption for me to think Bill was also less than a gentleman.

Quit while you're behind, man.
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Old 11-29-2017, 04:09 PM   #85
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You said Republicans, which includes me, could care less about babies.

You feeling OK? You're acting like you're auditioning for a prime time spot at MSNBC.
I guess you could look at it that way but if I meant you obviously I would have said you since I have no problem calling you out. But I was clearly referencing the Republican budgets which constantly hurt the poor and their babies. Cutting WIC and not renewing chip hurts the poor and their vulnerable babies
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Old 11-29-2017, 04:45 PM   #86
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I guess you could look at it that way but if I meant you obviously I would have said you since I have no problem calling you out. But I was clearly referencing the Republican budgets which constantly hurt the poor and their babies. Cutting WIC and not renewing chip hurts the poor and their vulnerable babies
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Just out of curiosity, what is your evidence that liberal budgets have done more to help the poor and their babies? Because when I look at some of the most liberal places in the nation, I'm not seeing an elimination of infant poverty. Pretty far from it.

The late great liberal senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, when he was with the Dept Of Labor, predicted that liberal welfare would destroy the black nuclear family, and that would be a Holocaust for blacks. He was right. When you pay young black girls to have babies, and you pay them more to not marry the father of that baby, nothing good happens to those babies. Shocker.
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:34 AM   #87
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Just out of curiosity, what is your evidence that liberal budgets have done more to help the poor and their babies? Because when I look at some of the most liberal places in the nation, I'm not seeing an elimination of infant poverty. Pretty far from it.No one has claimed you can "eliminate" poverty.

The late great liberal senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, when he was with the Dept Of Labor, predicted that liberal welfare would destroy the black nuclear family, and that would be a Holocaust for blacks. He was right. When you pay young black girls to have babies, and you pay them more to not marry the father of that baby, nothing good happens to those babies. Shocker.
A combo of comments about the Repub budget and tax reform – some C&P and some links:
Republicans’ efforts to cut spending have focused mostly on programs for the poor, like Medicaid or Supplemental Security Income or food stamps. Trump’s budget proposal includes $2.1 trillion in cuts to Medicaid, Affordable Care Act subsidies, food stamps, Social Security Disability Insurance, Supplemental Security Income, and cash welfare (TANF). They also are cutting SNAP (Sup. Nutrition Assist. Program), Meals on wheels,

Others:

Eliminates funding for the 21st Century Community Learning Centers, which provides after-school programs to roughly 2 million students in high-need communities. There is research showing that after-school programs improve children's academic performance, as well as their emotional and physical well-being.

Cuts to HUD to support housing: About half of HUD's funding cut would come from eliminating the Community Development Block Grant Program. CDBG was set up to help local governments provide "decent housing," a suitable living environment and economic opportunities primarily for low- and moderate-income people.

The Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program or LIHEAP is targeted for elimination in Trump's budget.
Trump wants to eliminate funding for the Legal Services Corporation. LSC provides grants to nonprofits nationwide that in turn provide civil legal aid to those who otherwise can't afford it. The beneficiaries of LSC funding include homeless veterans, low-income workers and victims of domestic abuse.

Remove the $250 deduction for teachers who pay for school supplies. (prob. not an issue in the richer school districts) while maintaining favorable tax treatment for golf courses and private jets. I believe student loan interest will no longer be deductible. Furthermore, there was a story of a janitor at BC who put his 5 kids thru school there and now the tax bill would make the free tuition to his kids and (grad students) taxable.

Lower Social Security payments by changing the way increases are calculated. They are now indexed to inflation through the CPI, but that will change under a new way of figuring inflation.

The Senate Republican tax plan gives substantial tax cuts and benefits to Americans earning more than $100,000 a year, while the nation’s poorest would be worse off, according to a report released Sunday by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

Republicans are aiming to have the full Senate vote on the tax plan as early as this week, but the new CBO analysis showing large, harmful effects on the poor may complicate those plans.
by 2027, most people earning less than $75,000 a year would be worse off
On the flip side, millionaires and those earning $100,000 to $500,000 would be big beneficiaries, according to the CBO’s calculations. (In the CBO table below, negative signs mean people in those income brackets pay less in taxes).

The main reason the poor get hit so hard in the Senate GOP bill is because the poor would receive less government aid for health care. Many of the people who are likely to drop health insurance have low or moderate incomes. If they drop health insurance, they will no longer receive some tax credits and subsidies from the government. The Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT), the other official nonpartisan group that analyzes tax bills, put out a similar report showing how lower-income families are hurt by the loss of the health-care tax credits. But the CBO goes a step further than the JCT. The CBO also calculates what would happen to Medicaid, Medicare and the Basic Health Program if the Senate GOP plan became law. The CBO is showing even worse impacts on poor families than the JCT did.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f2b81f8fe8c0

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnwas.../#683a99406c1e
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Old 11-30-2017, 11:12 AM   #88
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[QUOTE=PaulS;1132648]

No one has claimed you can "eliminate" poverty.


http://theweek.com/articles/534655/w...-pretty-simple

this guy claims it would be pretty simple
and I don't know how many organizations exist to "end poverty"...but it a lot
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:14 PM   #89
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I guess you could look at it that way but if I meant you obviously I would have said you since I have no problem calling you out. But I was clearly referencing the Republican budgets which constantly hurt the poor and their babies. Cutting WIC and not renewing chip hurts the poor and their vulnerable babies
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So when President Bill Clinton kicked millions of people off welfare, was he widely regarded by liberals as not wanting to help poor people? Or, again, is it only immoral when conservatives do it?
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:25 PM   #90
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So when President Bill Clinton kicked millions of people off welfare, was he widely regarded by liberals as not wanting to help poor people? Or, again, is it only immoral when conservatives do it?
You do know that when Clinton "kicked" people off welfare he put in other programs to help them vs the items that I mentioned above which will be replaced by what?
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