The rangers are closing the point to all travil at night. It was closed Sat. and Sunday nite and they say it will be for two or three more nites.

yup- was down there sat and they closed south access to hatches at 8:00. they left about 1 mile at north access open but there must have been 1000 people there, we left.

Stupid plovers....can you believe all this fuss over this small bird that will only wind up as fox/coyote food anyway? Doesn't anyone realize it is causing the extinction of the flatfooted upright walking opposable thumbed surf fisherman at the Race? :laughs: Glad we pay $150.00 for use of the beach.....how much do the f'in plovers pay???? :nailem:

the plovers have a role in nature to play....what that exactly is i believe, is still unknown.

protecting them though is the right thing to do...just not on public beaches.

thats whats wrong with the whole hair-brained plan.

a varmit proofed area near some coastline can be created by
wildlife biologists with the correct grasses planted as well
that would do a much better job. then that beach is closed forever.

because humans frequent the beach and are a source of food for predators to
take advantage of...their numbers are way to high for any plover survival.

Cape Hatteras has only 13 out of 71 miles of beach open because of those little birds. Noone has seen 'em though....except for a few Park Rangers and bird people :rude:
Salt

what do those little sobs' do for anyone or anything? :huh: bring a cat fishing and leave it!

We used to be able to drive to Long Point and Wood End. Why can't the plovers be happy with that?

It's the Begining of the END.......... There will be No more :ss: on the Beaches :soon: I Think..............................

I agree with Habs but it won't be because of the plovers....the way Mother Natures rath is encroaching on the shoreline......soon there will be no more beach to drive! :ss:

There may be no more beach to drive in the future but the Feds have been taking our rights on the beach away since JFK declared the Cape Cod National Seashore. The bird folks and the Truro residents have a very, very strong lobby going against us.
I drove the beaches for 30 years and quit 3 years ago because it's not fishermen anymore. Go to the back any day in July or August and you will find 100 trucks with grills, sun shades, tube floats. It's like Coney Island. You can still find fish but since the Feds close everything within a half mile of the Mission Bell what the hell is the use. No Laures, 2/10s hole, Peaked Hill Bar or High Head unless you crawl in the back way and that's probably closed for the birds also. We use to drive 600 miles every weekend. 2 round trips. just doesn't make sense anymore. :lossinit:

The reason our beaches are closed is because of envirnomental whackos. You can't say a thing about the plover without being ganged up upon by people who have never been to the beach who think they know whats best.

Once again the lobbyist for the Conservation Law foundation, Sierra Club, The Animal Welfare fund, PETA and the Audobon Society have been able to push through laws that will restrict the impact of human use on animal species. Trouble is is that there are way more recreational and commercial fisherman than the total memberships of those organizations but they do a much better job or representing thier views than we do of ours. Sportfisherman have always been a distant second when trying to organize themselves into a powerfull lobby. The money is there and the numbers are there but the willingness to get out and get organized is not, so........... :poke: :liquify:

Piss on Plovers. Put People First. :rude:

There may be no more beach to drive in the future but the Feds have been taking our rights on the beach away since JFK declared the Cape Cod National Seashore.

National Seashore or rows of private property/million dollar homes.

pick one.

JFK GAVE you access, if it wasn't for him there'd be no PUBLIC beaches.

Still with it's inherent faults it was the very best thing that ever happened to Cape Cod. I shudder to think what Truro, Wellfleet, Eastham and P-town outer beaches would be like without it. Best thing JFK ever did beside boff Marilyn! :laughs:

Flap:
I agree. It would be wall to wall million dollar condos with no place at all for us.
Funny story. It was about 10 years ago and there was a group of us fishing the Second Rip. There was a fenced off area for Mrs. Plover and family. Everyday we would see a Golden eagle sitting on an old post at the edge of the dunes. He was methodically picking off chicks one after another. I guess he couldn't read the do not molest the plover signs.

wow, I think Flaptail has a good point here, why don't we as a bunch of surfcasters get together and take some politicians out to expensive dinners and give them expensive wine and kobe steak and try and get them to see things our way? and amen on the million dollar condo thing, in Rockport, MA I look at the map and :drool: over great looking shore spots, but there is no access because it is owned by some CEO with no trespassing signs everywhere....and don't even mention the parking situation up there.. then they wonder why their tourism revenues have seen a decline lately and they think legalizing alcohol is going to solve it, guess what people, if there is no where for anybody to park and they get ticketed on a sunday than how can they go drink alchohol in your restaurants!!
but I digress...

National Seashore or rows of private property/million dollar homes.

pick one.

JFK GAVE you access, if it wasn't for him there'd be no PUBLIC beaches.
Once again you have distorted what I or many others post. I did not say I had a problem with JFK. I merely stated that he set aside the Cape Cod National Seashore. Perhaps you should give reading a try before you put pen to paper. :poke:

I dunno likwid, I think you'd probably see more access, as the other towns would see the cash cow that Orleans has with Nauset.... lot of mixed feelings on the seashore... I'd like the 35 miles back, that we used to be able to access by buggy... even if it was like certain other areas.. 7PM till 7AM, lot of nice structure no one will ever get to anymore.

(note, no kennedys were mentioned in this post ;) )

wow, I think Flaptail has a good point here, why don't we as a bunch of surfcasters get together and take some politicians out to expensive dinners and give them expensive wine and kobe steak and try and get them to see things our way? and amen on the million dollar condo thing, in Rockport, MA I look at the map and :drool: over great looking shore spots, but there is no access because it is owned by some CEO with no trespassing signs everywhere....and don't even mention the parking situation up there.. then they wonder why their tourism revenues have seen a decline lately and they think legalizing alcohol is going to solve it, guess what people, if there is no where for anybody to park and they get ticketed on a sunday than how can they go drink alchohol in your restaurants!!
but I digress...

What if there was some New England based saltwater angler consortium that included all fishing clubs, websites, bait and tackle shops? Think the RFA but more directed to pulling everyone together instead of being a nother "group". The RFA model is close but I don't know if it goes far enough??

OT: Speaking of Kennedy, TODAY is the 36th anniversary of the night Teddy left Mary Joe to DIE on chappy. I think tonight I may pay the old bridge a visit and make a cast or two.



everything you want to know about the event....(with photos)
http://www.ytedk.com/

I dunno likwid, I think you'd probably see more access, as the other towns would see the cash cow that Orleans has with Nauset....

Westport and South Dartmouth.

Nuff said.

Once again you have distorted what I or many others post. I did not say I had a problem with JFK. I merely stated that he set aside the Cape Cod National Seashore. Perhaps you should give reading a try before you put pen to paper. :poke:

Distored? You were complaining about the feds taking away rights.
If I was gonna say you had a problem with JFK I'd have asked if you were jealous about how much poontang he got. :hihi:

BFD, they close it for a bunch of birds. It dosen't last all season.

And if it wasn't turned into a national seashore I'm sure the Kennedy's and their buddies would have a nice long row of houses along with million dollar condos lining the rest of the area.

There's more money in property taxes from that crap than there ever would be from town beaches etc. and certainly more jobs for the locals.

likwid.. Nauset generates about 1.5 mill per annum, not bad for a small parking lot and 7.5 miles of unbuildable beach. :D

Thats impressive, I'm sure property taxes on super exclusive gated communities would generate that in a couple months after seeing how they do in other areas like Padanaram/Mishaum Point/Col. Green's and out west in areas like Newport Beach, San Luis Obispo. :p :)

And nothing is unbuildable... Ever been to Malibu?

U never tried to get a permit in the peoples republic of Orleans :D
took me three months to process permit for a 12 by 12 tool shed, and barely got it!
All camps out there built after 1959 have been ripped down... and there is some rumblings about the lack of title 5 compliance, and the fact that none have Occ. Permits... they all might go

..... tax rate is under 5 bucks per thou as well :D

You can have any permit you want if you have the money to afford it.

You should see the massive complex being built down on Mishaum right now.

I agree with the sentiment that if all the surfcasters got together, we'd have an impressive lobby. Recreational fishing on the Cape is a multi-million dollar industry when you consider gear, gas, tackle, restaurants, hotels, and all the services that anglers use. Problem is, organizing recreational fisherman is like herding cats. We are by nature a secretive bunch.

But we can put some pressure on the authorities that be (see the other thread about MPAs). All we want is "reasonable" access to a resource that belongs to everyone.

Yep, Time to start writing letters to all the polititions and get them informed.

I was pissed it was closed to, but I parked and walked a mile and a half both morning before sunrise because I am nuts. Ya can't catch them if they are not in front of you, so go where they are. Are there any bicycles with big balloon tires that can be ridin on the sand? :huh: I want a canal bike for the sand.

Classic. That's a great idea. Probably have to be a 3 wheel though. Lets proto one. Probably against the law though. Paul

Yep, Time to start writing letters to all the polititions and get them informed.

I was pissed it was closed to, but I parked and walked a mile and a half both morning before sunrise because I am nuts. Ya can't catch them if they are not in front of you, so go where they are. Are there any bicycles with big balloon tires that can be ridin on the sand? :huh: I want a canal bike for the sand.


I have seen big three wheeled bikes that ride on sand and water - that would be the way to go.....get out there and troll as well.

I dunno likwid, I think you'd probably see more access, as the other towns would see the cash cow that Orleans has with Nauset.... lot of mixed feelings on the seashore... I'd like the 35 miles back, that we used to be able to access by buggy... even if it was like certain other areas.. 7PM till 7AM, lot of nice structure no one will ever get to anymore.

(note, no kennedys were mentioned in this post ;) )


You can get to that structure - by boat. :fishslap: :bshake:

now I gotta get me a boat!!!

Here it is.....just put a couple of rod holders.....perfect.

You would look cool too..... :cool:

even if ya got bucks ;)



September 28, 2005

Court ruling: Orleans property not buildable
By JASON KOLNOS
STAFF WRITER
The Appeals Court of Massachusetts has ruled in an Orleans case that some so-called ''grandfathered'' rights that seem to exempt undeveloped properties from minimum zoning requirements no longer offer that protection.

The landmark decision handed down by the state's highest appeals court Monday could affect hundreds of people who want to build homes on undersized lots.

In April, the court heard the case of Stuart Rothman, an Orleans property owner who has been involved in a three-year dispute with neighbors over a plan to build a single family home on his Priscilla Road parcel the town says is way too small.

His Nauset Heights neighbors, who sued Rothman, feared the extra wastewater would contaminate local waters, and that more homes would clog traffic and cause congestion in the neighborhood.

Rothman's 8,000-square-foot lot - not much bigger than a tennis court - is overgrown with vegetation and offers a slight harbor view along the bumpy, unpaved road. The undeveloped parcel is one-fifth the size of the minimum of one acre needed to currently build in Orleans.

Rothman has said he purchased the property for $300,000 in 2001 because he thought the land was protected under an exemption in a 1954 town zoning bylaw.

After a legal ping-pong match among town building officials, the local zoning board of appeals and the state's Land Court, the state Appeals Court finally heard the suit.

The court tried to determine whether state laws allow a lot that was once buildable to remain ''buildable'' even after the exemption had been repealed. Orleans axed the 1954 provision - which allowed one building on any existing lot at least 5,000 square feet - when it amended bylaws in 1971.

Rothman and his attorney, Duane Landreth, had argued that the earlier ''grandfathering'' should apply to his property even though the exact exemption does not exist in the bylaws today.

The appeals court disagreed with Rothman, saying in a five-page opinion that Rothman's property should have met the minimum zoning standards when it first became separately owned in 1971, regardless of that previously afforded exemption.

Since the minimum lot size back then was 20,000 square feet, his property fell short of the zoning standards.

The court said grandfathered rights under state laws don't apply to Rothman's property because the local exemption had been deleted and modified in Orleans.

Neither Rothman nor Landreth returned multiple phone calls yesterday.

Brian S. Kaplan, the Newton attorney who represented the neighbors, said this new rule has potential implications for hundreds of undeveloped properties that might have outdated grandfather provisions.

''The court is saying that if you

piggyback grandfather rights, you aren't going to be protected,'' Kaplan said.

Orleans building commissioner Brian Harrison estimates that there are 10 to 12 undersized properties in Orleans that could have been deemed ''buildable'' if the court sided with Rothman.




Rothman and his attorney can now apply for their case to be heard by the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts.

Only 30 of the 7,000 decisions appealed to the SJC are heard each year, according to Alexander M. McNeil, an administrator in the clerk's office.

Jason Kolnos can be reached at jkolnos@capecodonline.com.


(Published: September 28, 2005)

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U never tried to get a permit in the peoples republic of Orleans :D
took me three months to process permit for a 12 by 12 tool shed, and barely got it!
All camps out there built after 1959 have been ripped down... and there is some rumblings about the lack of title 5 compliance, and the fact that none have Occ. Permits... they all might go

..... tax rate is under 5 bucks per thou as well :D
as long as its the a $$hole by the wall

I believe Ted left Mary Jo on July18, 1969