I find the "men" of the Middle East repugnant at best with their cowardly fighting and the use of losers blowing themselves and killing whomever is unlucky enough to be at the wrong place at the right time. I just about puked when I read this morning that when the Israeli's had a group of Palestinian gunmen holed up in a Mosque, that a call went out on the radio for woman to come an perform as human shields and the did. The Israelis opened up on them a killed a few woman sadly enough. The gunman were able to escape in the confusion. A guess what stuck me is the total disregard for life over their. Can you imagine if you traded places with the Palestinians. Okay the Israeli's got us lets call mom and sis to act as shields so we can get away. What a bunch of pussies. How can they look in the mirror. Think about it, is their no shame with these losers. :huh:

i've always considered them as cowards, with their use of women and children as shields and their "war" on civilian populace. not to mention the killing and torturing of their own- 'effin cowardly barbarians at best.

What strikes me is; do any of these people have jobs? The news clips are always crowds of these morons in the middle of the day jumping up and down, burning the Americanm flag and crap. Are they on some form of public assistance? How do they feed their families? Alot of those idiots just need a good ol whupin to put them in their place.

I find the "men" of the Middle East repugnant at best with their cowardly fighting and the use of losers blowing themselves and killing whomever is unlucky enough to be at the wrong place at the right time.

A human will find a way to fight back any way it can when faced with dire situations. How the rest of the world works sucks huh? Atleast they shoot their corrupt politicians.

[QUOTE=likwid At least they shoot their corrupt politicians.[/QUOTE]

along with everybody else....

i don't think one can extrapolate from the actions of a relative few and say "this is what all raghead males do."

this thread is making me hungry. i'm going to have some kibbe and lamb's brain.

i've always considered them as cowards, with their use of women and children as shields and their "war" on civilian populace. not to mention the killing and torturing of their own- 'effin cowardly barbarians at best.

I saw an interview once with the guys involved in the "Black Hawk Down" incident. The one guy was saying that the Somali men would send women or children out into the street to get a weapon from someone who had been hit; the men would also literally use the women as shields as they shot at the Americans. The Ranger went on to say that however unfortunate, they all realized that to get out of there alive, they had to consider anyone with a gun or being used as a shield as much of a threat as the men.

I completely agree that this is dispicable.

With that said, I don't think George Patton would have had the same problems if 50 Arabs in North Africa would have run into a Mosque. I can't see him wrapped up in some ethical dilemma - the Mosque would have just disappeared. What did Von Clausewitz say about limited war?

It's not about being a coward, it's about being effective. Their social structure enables them to behave in that manner, and as such it's simply a means to an end.

I'd think it would take some major balls (or drugs, or brainwashing) to blow yourself up.

Most importantly, how we perceive actions of radical Islamists is vastly different from how other Muslims perceive them. It's easy to write off behavior that we don't connect with as simply crazy, and in doing so we loose sight of what's really going on.

-spence

Since we've lost sight of what is really going on, can you share it with us?

:lurk: How long before this thread gets locked down? Gonna be a long winter again:lurk:

if their social structure enables them to behave in that manner, don't whine about the consequences!

if their social structure enables them to behave in that manner, don't whine about the consequences!
Who's whining?

We're often talking about male dominated societies full of poverty and corruption. It is what it is.

Many people believe empowerment of the woman is a key to transforming Islam.

-spence

Since we've lost sight of what is really going on, can you share it with us?
My comment wasn't directed at you specifically.

Your lives are intertwined.

-spence

:lurk: How long before this thread gets locked down? Gonna be a long winter again:lurk:
Only if you make it so. I'm all up for some productive conversation.

-spence

Suicide, the act of, however you want to dress it up is the most selfish(72 virgins in heaven) ( a life in heaven they can never achieve on earth) act one can possibly commit. The only person who received a solution to thier problems is the murderer/suicide. It is, from my perspective, just another form of greed and lust that in the end doesn't come to fruition:laugha: .

Suicide, the act of, however you want to dress it up is the most selfish(72 virgins in heaven) ( a life in heaven they can never achieve on earth) act one can possibly commit..

You seem to be confusing suicide with suicide bombing.

Suicide, the act of, however you want to dress it up is the most selfish(72 virgins in heaven) ( a life in heaven they can never achieve on earth) act one can possibly commit.
Well, I'd say this is a good example of what I'm talking about.

You really can't apply your perspective on suicide, with that of the bomber...say a 20 year old Palestenian full of humiliation and rage.

I'm not justifying their actions obviously.

-spence

Well, I'd say this is a good example of what I'm talking about.

You really can't apply your perspective on suicide, with that of the bomber...say a 20 year old Palestenian full of humiliation and rage.

I'm not justifying their actions obviously.

-spence

So Spence, take every one of your comments above and apply them to Columbine. Same thing? We all respond to "humiliation and rage" in different ways. Killing others and yourself, in my opinion, is cowardly. Perhaps those who choose to be suicide bombers would get more accomplished if they organized and focused on positive solutions to their issues. Why must we "understand" them? They are the ones that want some type of change, they need to develop some way to initiate that change. Suicide attacks do nothing.

So Spence, take every one of your comments above and apply them to Columbine. Same thing? We all respond to "humiliation and rage" in different ways. Killing others and yourself, in my opinion, is cowardly. Perhaps those who choose to be suicide bombers would get more accomplished if they organized and focused on positive solutions to their issues. Why must we "understand" them? They are the ones that want some type of change, they need to develop some way to initiate that change. Suicide attacks do nothing.
Well, all things considered...Columbine was a pretty isolated event. We're it happening on a regular basis I'd think people would start looking at the environment that's producing such killers.

You're not trying to "understand" them to be sympathetic.

-spence

Who's whining?

We're often talking about male dominated societies full of poverty and corruption. It is what it is.

Many people believe empowerment of the woman is a key to transforming Islam.

-spence

seems like all the PC people and the euro trash all whine whenever those gonadsless sob's hide behind their women and children and some are killed.....McFly........

I am not confusing suicide with murder. I just took a shorthand approach in adding to the post. Being filled with humiliation and rage against the oppressors whoever, and wherever that may be, and then strapping exposives to your waist or driving an exlosive laden vehicle into a crowd upon promise also of being rewarded with virgins in heaven prior to detonation certainly is tinged with greed and selfishness. If they were pure in thier intentions then the suicide murderer would not have to be plied with any other inducements, or brainwashed.

seems like all the PC people and the euro trash all whine whenever those gonadsless sob's hide behind their women and children and some are killed.....McFly........
Don't think PC has anything to do with it, but a more internationalist view of the world does. I'll be perfectly frank in stating that I don't believe most Americans have a very objective view of the Palestenian conflict.

The calls from the EU, Canada etc... for a more balanced approach are based on issues like the USA consistantly using our UN veto over the years to protect Isreal from international condemnation for behavior that has often been illegal, and to be fair at other times quite justified.

Sure there's still anti-semitisim in the EU, but I don't this drives the policy.

-spence

Being filled with humiliation and rage against the oppressors whoever, and wherever that may be, and then strapping exposives to your waist or driving an exlosive laden vehicle into a crowd upon promise also of being rewarded with virgins in heaven prior to detonation certainly is tinged with greed and selfishness. If they were pure in thier intentions then the suicide murderer would not have to be plied with any other inducements, or brainwashed.
I think you're taking different things and mixing them together into a generic Islamist terrorist.

The virgin story I think is true, but is overplayed like it's the motivation...when in reality it's probably just to reassure someone not all that into killing themselves. You wouldn't kill yourself for that alone, you kill because you don't think there's another option and you want to be seen as someone who's fighting back with whatever you have.

Take a look at Palestine, it's been bombed to dust for the most part and the poverty is I've read at more than 50%. Granted there is a lot of blame to go around for this (i.e. Mr. Arafat), but for thousands of kids growing up with little to nothing, and living under Isreali near aparthide conditions...I don't think it's even remotely fair to say that their guilty of being "greedy".

Remember as well, that most of the terrorisim in the world is political rather than religious in origin.

-spence

[QUOTE=spence; I'll be perfectly frank in stating that I don't believe most Americans have a very objective view of the Palestenian conflict.

with the methods they employ how can you expect ANY americans to be objective or supportive of their so called cause? i knew this would lead back to palestenian conflict 101.....

with the methods they employ how can you expect ANY americans to be objective or supportive of their so called cause? i knew this would lead back to palestenian conflict 101.....
Many people around the world realize they have been shafted by just about everyone at some time or another. There's plenty of reason for some empathy without endorsing the means of the violent groups.

Arafat was a big part of the problem. It's very unfortunate that things got so much worse before he kicked. Had a more democratic approach taken root before the second Intifada things might look much better today...

-spence

It's not about being a coward, it's about being effective. Their social structure enables them to behave in that manner, and as such it's simply a means to an end.

I'd think it would take some major balls (or drugs, or brainwashing) to blow yourself up.

Most importantly, how we perceive actions of radical Islamists is vastly different from how other Muslims perceive them. It's easy to write off behavior that we don't connect with as simply crazy, and in doing so we loose sight of what's really going on.

-spence

Thu rub here is that is doesn't matter what your culture thinks. Right and wrong are absolute, and you don't get a pass because your society accepts what you're doing. Otherwise, you have to say that slave owners did nothing wrong, Nazis did nothing wrong, etc. Your logic implies that as long as you get enough idiots to agree with you, you can do whatever you want.

They are murderers, no better or worse than any other.

Geez,

Spence these guys are just plain bad. How the hell can you rationalize their behavoir. It is just low and scummy. People are opressed all over the world and most of thme don't blow themselves up over it. I think its a cultural thing, those dogs have no respect for woman or themselves. To use mothers and daughters as human sheilds is just f'ed up. Next thing you know they will be using babies and little girls as body armor. The whole thing just blows. :lossinit:

Your logic implies that as long as you get enough idiots to agree with you, you can do whatever you want.
It doesn't imply that at all...absolutes are relative in context. Slavery was wrong, but many Americans still held in high regard today certainly didn't think so at the time.

-spence