What is the deal with these hooks?
Seems to me they are the same thing as the 4X. :huh:

I took micrometers to 3/0 4X and 3/0 6X and got the same exact measurement :af:

Why am I paying a lot more money for a hook that is supposed to be stronger? Anyone know why they look the same ?

stronger steel and cone taper point vs needle taper point

Waste of money unless your targeting 100 lb fish and up imo

I bought some by accident. The 6x are a pain to cut.

Nevermind
I see the difference now, while talking to NIB he told me what to look at. Different shape to the steel also.

with 4x hooks, ya can't winch fish in any larger than 20 pounds or the hooks bend , so that is why I like 6x, especially around rocks and structure.


I'll go back to making boxes now :hidin:

I use the 6X mainly because they have a heavier wire and a shorter shank. These make great replacement hooks, you can manhandle them with pliers. They are still pretty cheap too. You can get them in red too. The next step up IMO is the owner stinger series but now your talk-en nearly 2 bucks per hook...but these are forged trebles not bent wire and you could probably tow your truck with them. (Good for tuna plugs and big bass lures trolled from a boat)

stronger steel and cone taper point vs needle taper point

Waste of money unless your targeting 100 lb fish and up imo


I could not disagree more..Totally necessary if u have fish of any size an You need to apply a medium amout of pressure on em..
Only problem is you are adding more weight.It will change the action of the lure...And sometimes not for the better.
I also use the owner hook. best hook made IMO.
Sandman said 2 dollars a hook thats the high end.Usually round a buck per..

Well Nib we're going to disagree here then :hee: The more you heat treat a piece of metal the brittler it becomes...that's why I won't use the owner hooks because the failure point is breakage rather than bending first. They're great hooks and PISSER sharp too. Dangerous.

I can guarantee you that if you are bending 4x hooks you've got braid on the rod. I've said it 20 times in the last few years...something has to give. Loosen the drag or use a longer shock leader. Problem solved.

I can guarantee you that if you are bending 4x hooks you've got braid on the rod. I've said it 20 times in the last few years...something has to give. Loosen the drag or use a longer shock leader. Problem solved.

I wish it was that simple..

Curious why do you say that Tony? My opinion is this is light tackle fishing. Braid is problem from the standpoint that it's got no stretch which is good for feeling the fish and working a lure but lack of stretch means it puts excessive force on the rest of your tackle. Something has to give. Usually it's the swivel, sometimes the hook.
My point though is that you don't need 6x hooks for stripers, they didn't have them 50 years ago and look at the size of the fish back then. It's only because of the newer technology lines like braid that you need to change to 6x hooks and usually because the drag is too tight or there isn't a long enough shock leader. They are about double the cost of a standard 4x hook also.

Hate to break the news to you, but 50 years ago almost no one used mono.

Most of the top guys used conventionals with 50# Dacron, or 54# braided nylon. Which doesn't stretch either. And with the drags on their Squidders locked, and Harnell rods that were as stiff as any of today's graphites.

Braid isn't new. Braids with 50# strength and .015" diameter are new. You could straighten hooks as easily on Dacron as you can on Power Pro.

yea ok I have no clue what I'm talking about. They still didn't have the damn hooks back then. whatever.

I've used the 6x and have even had some of them bend on fish - and I use mono. They are stronger and heavier as NIB says. I use them exclusively on needles. There is no perfect treble so far. We had guys using stainless trebles years ago. They were strong but instead of bending the points broke off! You can only put so much pressure on the bass. If they get your treble on the bottom forget it - too much weight and tourqe will bend it easily. Hook-em-up using trebles and the right tackle and hope for the best. But if you really want to land a better percentage of your hook-ups - figure out what presentation they'll take that has a strong single hook.

DZ

yea ok I have no clue what I'm talking about. They still didn't have the damn hooks back then. whatever.

"My point though is that you don't need 6x hooks for stripers, they didn't have them 50 years ago and look at the size of the fish back then. It's only because of the newer technology lines like braid that you need to change to 6x hooks and usually because the drag is too tight or there isn't a long enough shock leader. They are about double the cost of a standard 4x hook also."


You blamed braid and tight drags for people straightening 4/0 hooks and said people didn't straighten 3/0 hooks 50 years ago, implying that they didn't use braid and tight drags. Which they did. People straightened plenty of plug hooks. That's why many of the top guns used rigged eels to make those eye popping catches you see in those old pictures. Back then, though, they didn't bitch about it on an internet forum with tens of thousands of people reading about it.

I've straightened plenty of treble hooks on mono and glass rods.

I'll bet I could straightened a 6/0 treble if a fish was hooked just so.

There is definitely a difference between the 4x vmc's and the 6x.

Back in June when I was on good fish on topwater, some of the bigger fish were bending the 4x hooks when they crashed the plug on the hit. I fish a light drag but even so I had 2 or 3 trebles bent. Also if the fish gets both the front and rear hooks in their mouth, they can leverage even the 6X trebles. Biggest fish I had on this year did that after playing with a pencil for almost 50 yards. It finally took it and after about 5 seconds it bent two prongs of a 6x vmc and the 6/0stainless siwash. It also stretched out the belly swivel which was just one of the big rosco ones as I need long swivels in my pencils. I was kind of suprised to see the 6x's fail before the rosco swivel.

With Nib & DZ here totally! Yes, for sure 6x VMCs must be in your arsenal IF hunting Large in heavy rocks/ structure! :humpty:

Yes, to me a VMC 4x treble is very prone to bending out on a big fish! (talking Bass here only!). And Scott not just with Braid & locked down drags: I'm a mono.- only guy too (still!)... & have had 4xs lose me good fish half a dozen times! Usually they are ones used on big Wood, where the fish can get leverage-- or even if not, IF the Cow can get you down in the bottom quickly in the fight (such as at PJ or Cutty or M., where hook- ups occur usually in 10' or less of H2O! 5' or less there often! :eek5: )


DO YOU need 6x trebles?? :huh:


Issue # 1: are you Cow- hunting? If not particularly, stick to 4x...

Issue # 2: what plugs are you using? If they're smallish... & the swivels are suspect (or even average), then stick to 4x. Because then you'll be using lighter line/ braid, & fishing a lighter drag/ approach anyway. Under those circumstances, 4x trebles should never bend out...

Issue # 3: are you only/ mostly fishing sand beaches (i.e., Jersey front or Cape Backside, etc.), or rocks/ heavy/ sticky structure? Are there no Buoys nor Lobster Pots within casting distance where you fish... or are there many? :confused: If yes to rocks/ pots/ moorings, etc.-- then you're fishing clamped down tight drags & heavy line I'd hope! So then 6x is for you! If you fish/ favor sand... then I'd (as in my Cape surf days) be throwing 17 lb. mono, or 20 lb. tops, on a "lighter- action" 10' rod... so for sure my plugs then would sport 4x VMCs only! A light drag... & let the fish run & tire-- & life is easy! Hooks last a full season! :smokin:

Issue # 4: Back to the plug/ swivels you use. Yes, OF COURSE if bent- out treble hooks are the concern when targeting your "50," then a stout Single- hook approach (as with an Andrus Bucktail, a rigged Eel Sporting 11/0 Siwashes... or a stubby Needle w/ single heavy Siwash a la T. Coleman, or the "Pocket Rocket") is your highest- % approach! But IF you're a Wood/ plastic- loving Caster like myself-- you must live with trebles! Then you can only get the strongest/ best & have Faith there! But again: if your plug lacks a heavy duty/ X- strong swivel, no point going 6x hook-- that swivel will be what fails (SO many times w/ me on Gibbs & several others). But IF you rewire with Kroks... even your Gibbs (or any other such "suspect" swivel plug)... THEN for sure you want the 6x VMC over the 4x. BMs, Fixters, Macs, Lifishinvt, Afterhours-- go right ahead & upgrade to 6x! (their swivels being worthy!) :musc:

Issue # 5: Cutting the 6x is problematic... mostly because they seem way more brittle & resistant to the process than are the 4x (which are seemingly more malleable). I just don't trust even the 6x that do initially take to the "cutting" process, to hold after field- use as much as I do the 4x. So I (try to) only use the 6x when the plug allows an HD split- ring attachment. When the head- swivel NEEDS a cut VMC treble then I stay 4x (but often upgrade to 5/0 4x., where 4/0 is normal size... :bo: )

Issue # 6: YES, sometimes a "heavier"/ 6x treble can negatively affect a plugs' action... but ONLY for "finnesse" or smallish plugs in my opinion/ experience! Unless you're talking about 5" Leftys, Mag Darters or 1 oz. Needles... I really don't think the slight added weight of a 6x VMC treble will affect your plug negatively at all! Certainly not if were talking about 2- 3 oz. BMs, Fixters, Habs, S.S., Tattoos, etc. (No fear/ issues there!) BUT that super- strong Owner 4x? VERY heavy!-- I'd guess 3x as heavy per size than the VMC 6x. SO... as much as I admire that Owner 4x trebles' strength: even IF it were lower in price, I would only use it on plugs where more weight in front would be a plus... ( for ex., larger Darters, Bottles, & Needles...or Cowboys/ Deep Swimmers, obviously, etc.) :wave:

OK! Now hopefully you know if 6x are for your fishing, or not! (Braid vs. mono. irrelevant! :hihi: )

Curious why do you say that Tony? My opinion is this is light tackle fishing. Braid is problem from the standpoint that it's got no stretch which is good for feeling the fish and working a lure but lack of stretch means it puts excessive force on the rest of your tackle. Something has to give. Usually it's the swivel, sometimes the hook.
My point though is that you don't need 6x hooks for stripers, they didn't have them 50 years ago and look at the size of the fish back then. It's only because of the newer technology lines like braid that you need to change to 6x hooks and usually because the drag is too tight or there isn't a long enough shock leader. They are about double the cost of a standard 4x hook also.


A long leader will not always save ur butt.If a fish gets you rapped up your gonna loose it I don't care if u have 30 yds of 100 lb shock leader.Yes I use braid.I don't use a overly tight drag.Learned that years ago also..Even with the right hook your just gonna pull em out. I will winch em when I have to.I have a pretty good idea how to handle a good sized fish.There are times you just have no control over the situation.The last resort is too apply presure.Presure that will test all the weak links in your gear.Pressure that will make a rod manufacturer cringe. I have had too many failures with the 4 x hooks.From fish I would swear just bent em with there mouths..to em rubbing em out on the bottom.I had a fish dump on me with little line left On a 40 knock off that just stripped 2 sets of 4/0 trebles wide open before I could blink..Like I said sometimes u have no control over the situation..I will also add..I never put a plier on a hook..I rarely ever use pliers to remove hooks from a fish.
I really don't belive the VMC's are as strong as they where when I started using em 8 yrs ago..I would rather use a old school 4/0 mustad than a 4/0 VMC 4x.
Hooks where better years ago also..
When I fish I am pretty much gunning for bear.After years of failures I have it pretty much narrowed down..I have 100 percent confidence in every link.Or I at least have a idea of my limitations..I have left nothing to chance.If I can use a 6x hook within the perameters of the lure of choice I will.It just makes sense.Others can do as they see fit..

There is definitely a difference between the 4x vmc's and the 6x.

Back in June when I was on good fish on topwater, some of the bigger fish were bending the 4x hooks when they crashed the plug on the hit. I fish a light drag but even so I had 2 or 3 trebles bent. Also if the fish gets both the front and rear hooks in their mouth, they can leverage even the 6X trebles. Biggest fish I had on this year did that after playing with a pencil for almost 50 yards. It finally took it and after about 5 seconds it bent two prongs of a 6x vmc and the 6/0stainless siwash. It also stretched out the belly swivel which was just one of the big rosco ones as I need long swivels in my pencils. I was kind of suprised to see the 6x's fail before the rosco swivel.

On my pencils I use a 6x 4/0 on the front and a 4x or 6x 5/0 on the rear..
The siwash is a joke..Too much point.If u don't bury it to the bend (there are lots of spots on a bass where this won't happen)it will open.I only use size 6H split rings..Wolverines are No Good.The wider splitring gets started easier when torqued right.Once that happens Poof they are gone.If u need a longer swivel spro makes em.I use em up to size 2/0.I believe it is a 370 lb swivel.1/0 is a 330 lber..I just squeze the loop slightly to make em fit.I have never had one come close to failure..