Will the stimulas bill be good for the country in the long run. Read it and tell us your opinion:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/24/house-stimulus-bill-full_n_160569.html

ain't stimulatin....

Lower Healthcare Costs: To save not only jobs, but money and lives, we will update and computerize our
healthcare system to cut red tape, prevent medical mistakes, and help reduce healthcare costs by billions of
dollars each year.
! $20 billion for health information technology to prevent medical mistakes, provide better care to patients
and introduce cost-saving efficiencies.
! $4.1 billion to provide for preventative care and to evaluate the most effective healthcare treatments.

“Making Work Pay” tax credit. The bill would cut taxes for more than 95% of working
families in the United States. For 2009 and 2010, the bill would provide a refundable tax credit
of up to $500 for working individuals and $1,000 for working families. This tax credit would be
calculated at a rate of 6.2% of earned income, and would phase out for taxpayers with adjusted
gross income in excess of $75,000 ($150,000 for married couples filing jointly). Taxpayers can
receive this benefit through a reduction in the amount of income tax that is withheld from their
paychecks, or through claiming the credit on their tax returns. This proposal is estimated to cost
$145.309 billion over 10 years.

145 billion over 10 years - WTF is 500 bucks going to do?

New Fed mobiles how does that stimulate

New Homeland Security Building likewise

I don't see stimulus being the complete answer

Lower the capital gains tax, Keep tax credits in place add more for alternative energy, healthcare, energy efficiency

Here's my quick take (no surprise to many here) it won't fix anything. This bill is nothing more then 10 years worth of Democrat programs wrapped up in a con job bill forced down the American throats by the "Messia". The Govornment caused the problem we are in and now they will make it worse. Tell me one program that they run that accomplished what it was supposed to do.

market tanked today on news of TARP 2.

No sense reading it, it's only a trillion with interest and with Geitner talking about needing another 2 trillion today it's peanuts.

Glad the market has such confidence in the "spending" bill and Geitner, the only man for the job, with a 400 point drop.

Where are the Obama defenders to point out the way this bill will help fix America's economy? Help me understand

As long as they keep the $30 million in the bill for studying the Satlwater Mouse in Pelosie's state, the economy will be right back on track.

It's so easy for these "talking head" politicians to whoop and holler about the stimulus package, because they are going to benefit from it in way too many ways. With all the hidden/subtle pork programs and mumbo-jumbo doubletalk explanations, their going to end up pocketing a big chunk of this money for themselves.

Instead of doing what would be the normal, common sense things to help the economy, they want to play roulette with the entire country's future. AND THEY BET IT ALL ON "00"!

WE R F'D
thanks 4 the $ 13 extra bucks in my pay check WOW ---
KEEP IT U need it more than I do
Link SR:mad:

With all the hidden/subtle pork programs and mumbo-jumbo doubletalk explanations, their going to end up pocketing a big chunk of this money for themselves.



Always a hidden agenda in selling their votes, according to the NY Times, Arlen Specter R got 6.5 BILLION for his pet project ,medical research, from the "spending" bill.

Oink Oink.

Prolly help a research hospital like Jefferson, but as with most of these research facilities everything is in place and wouldn't create many new jobs.

WE R F'D
thanks 4 the $ 13 extra bucks in my pay check WOW ---
KEEP IT U need it more than I do
Link SR:mad:

Since you don't want it, you can send it to my paypal acct.
Thanks!

Amazing how the propaganda changed.

Last week it was supposed to create 4 million jobs.

Now today, as it is soon to be signed by the president, a little hedging going on as it was stated that it would Save and create 3.5 million jobs.

Where is Honest Abe when you need him. :huh:

IF u need 13$ give me your addy
link

Where are the Obama defenders to point out the way this bill will help fix America's economy? Help me understand

WELL? Anyone, anyone at all.............

IF u need 13$ give me your addy
link

Actually, send it to booger, he needs a bailout, he pisses and moans louder than all of you combined about politics. :hihi:

how bout saltys addy,13 bucks, send me your addy.:jump:

Yes I'm sitimulated.Excuse me......I've got to use the bathroom.Where's the GLADE????:bs:

Here's a little help. http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/02/14/how_will_the_government_stimulus_plan_affect_you/

Save and create 3.5 million jobs.

The guy from Cat said the bill was great, but he was still laying off no matter what...

WELL? Anyone, anyone at all.............

The silence is deafening.

OK,
I don't have a lot of time right now to go through and debate point by point. I grabbed some of the lines from the article you posted Buckman, and bolded a few that directly relate to jobs. I agree that there is some crap in here, but there is a lot of good as well.

A main goal of education spending in the stimulus bill is to help keep teachers on the job. Nearly 600,000 jobs in elementary and secondary schools could be eliminated by state budget cuts over the next three years, according to a study released this past week by the University of Washington. Fewer teachers means higher class sizes, something that districts are scrambling to prevent.

Highways repaved for the first time in decades. Century-old waterlines dug up and replaced with new pipes. Aging bridges, stressed under the weight of today's SUVs, reinforced with fresh steel and concrete.

But the $90 billion is a mere down payment on what's needed to repair and improve the country's physical backbone. And not all economists agree it's an effective way to add jobs in the long term, or stimulate the economy. OK, I agree that long-term it may not be a solution, but someone will have to do this work, right?


The package includes $20 billion aimed at "green" jobs to make wind turbines, solar panels and improve energy efficiency in schools and federal buildings. It includes $6 billion in loan guarantees for renewable energy projects as well as tax breaks or direct grants covering 30 percent of wind and solar energy investments. Another $5 billion is marked to help low-income homeowners make energy improvements. I am a huge proponent of this. Who wouldn't be. Even if you don't believe in the negative impacts of carbon emissions, by creating our own energy we are decreasing the amount of foreign oil we need, which improves national security and has other environmental benefits, namely, less oil, coal and nat'l gas being removed from the ground and transported

The package includes $9.2 billion for environmental projects at the Interior Department and the Environmental Protection Agency. The money would be used to shutter abandoned mines on public lands, to help local governments protect drinking water supplies, and to erect energy-efficient visitor centers at wildlife refuges and national parks.

The Interior Department estimates that its portion of the work would generate about 100,000 jobs over the next two years.

The compromise bill doles out more than $3.7 billion for police programs, much of which is set aside for hiring new officers.

An additional $1 billion is set aside to hire local police under the Community Oriented Policing Services program. The program, known as COPS grants, paid the salaries of many local police officers and was a "modest contributor" to the decline in crime in the 1990s, according to a 2005 government oversight report. Both programs had all been eliminated during the Bush administration.


I took a few minutes to do this, to ask YOU guys a question.

IF this stimulus plan is not the answer, what is? How do you think we should go about turning around the economy and creating jobs, locally and federally?

OK


I took a few minutes to do this, to ask YOU guys a question.

IF this stimulus plan is not the answer, what is? How do you think we should go about turning around the economy and creating jobs, locally and federally?

I agree with the HOUND, instead of WHINING about the bill.
Tell, do tell what you outspoken leaders of this board, recommend this country do to get us back on the track?

NO pissin, just the facts.

:lurk::lurk:

I think we are going to have to wait for sometime for someone to speak up :shocked:

Off the top of my head, how can an intelligent vote be taken on a bill that hasn't been read by everyone in Congress and the Senate?
Imho,what Should have been done was have the Mayors and Governors from the entire country have input as to what they needed for infrastructure to create jobs BEFORE writing the bill, along with input from small, medium and large business leaders.
Give tax credits for business who want to expand with a plan and hire, and tax cuts for all working citizens.

I know, I know, it was an Emergency, Emergency and had to be done yesterday according to the politicians, so they grab a bunch of money, throw it against the wall and hope some sticks sometime down the road, no one knowing what's in their bill except the writers.

Delete any and all pork or pet projects politicians try to insert and debate and vote on these as separate bills, later. Unlike the current bill which adds a fast rail train from LA to Las Vegas to get the gamblers there faster while the rest of the country's people sit in their cars in a giant parking lot.

I agree with the HOUND, instead of WHINING about the bill.
Tell, do tell what you outspoken leaders of this board, recommend this country do to get us back on the track?

NO pissin, just the facts.

Look, there's no doubt that you can spend 800 billion dollars and create a bunch of jobs. That's not going to fix the mess we are in.

You can double spending on a bunch of programs and help some people out. That won't fix the country.

Rolling back the clock on welfare reform that Reagan and Clinton worked hard on won't help the country either.


Like it or not tax breaks work...Handing out money will not. It's not even real money they are handing out. It's debt that your kids will have to pay.

You have to give people insentive to work hard. An ability to grow there companies.

Like it or not tax breaks work...
Yes, the GOP magic "cure all" prescribed for any and all situations. Recession? Cut taxes...Growth? Cut taxes...Terrorism? Cut taxes...The clap? Cut taxes...

If tax breaks are always so good why don't we just eliminate taxes?

Also, doesn't the bill as is contain hundreds of billions in tax breaks? Shouldn't these work to stimulate the economy while the other spending keeps the ship right side up?

Again, I think there is wasteful spending in the bill, but a lot of line items, for instance spending to help communities not have to fire teachers and police, is probably needed, but the GOP is branding this as Liberal Pork.

-spence

Again, I think there is wasteful spending in the bill, but a lot of line items, for instance spending to help communities not have to fire teachers and police, is probably needed, but the GOP is branding this as Liberal Pork. -spence

Which is happening already in RI... maybe some of that can be blamed on the unions, but certainly not all of it!

Yes, the GOP magic "cure all" prescribed for any and all situations. Recession? Cut taxes...Growth? Cut taxes...Terrorism? Cut taxes...The clap? Cut taxes...

If tax breaks are always so good why don't we just eliminate taxes?

Also, doesn't the bill as is contain hundreds of billions in tax breaks? Shouldn't these work to stimulate the economy while the other spending keeps the ship right side up?

Again, I think there is wasteful spending in the bill, but a lot of line items, for instance spending to help communities not have to fire teachers and police, is probably needed, but the GOP is branding this as Liberal Pork.

-spence


What tax breaks mean is that the govornment takes less of OUR money. That means we can spend it how we want. Hire more people, remodel a room, buy a car. It's our money and if you can argue they need more of it and you feel better about them spending it, then nobody is stopping you from writing a check.

Claiming the loss fire fighters, policemen and teachers is the oldest liberal con in the book. I don't buy it. I'm from Ma. You can't drive through town without seeing fifteen cops working details. Get rid of all the mandated special education for every little problem and you will have plenty of teachers. Reform emergency personel sick pay policy and you will have plenty of firefighters. If you don't want to reform any thing here, then there are plenty of places you can cut. We don't need to increase funding over current levels.

IMO over 1/2 of this bill is money that we don't need to spend right now. We simple don't have it. It's not any more complicated then that. If you fund something now that you can't afford you have to get rid of it later. It's economics 101. WE DON"T HAVE THE $$$$.

so buckman.. how does a tax break help a poor guy who cant find a job?

Its proven that an owner of a business isnt always going to take that tax break and create a job, he is usually going to pocket the profits while he can..

Look, there's no doubt that you can spend 800 billion dollars and create a bunch of jobs. That's not going to fix the mess we are in.

You can double spending on a bunch of programs and help some people out. That won't fix the country.

Rolling back the clock on welfare reform that Reagan and Clinton worked hard on won't help the country either.


Like it or not tax breaks work...Handing out money will not. It's not even real money they are handing out. It's debt that your kids will have to pay.

You have to give people insentive to work hard. An ability to grow there companies.

Thats a pretty lame response based on all the other crap you been posting here. maybe you should actually read the bill inside of just complaining about it.

Thats a pretty lame response based on all the other crap you been posting here. maybe you should actually read the bill inside of just complaining about it.

I read the bill. Did you? My opinion is based on my believe. You can call it crap if you want. That's your opinion. Granted, it doesn't have as much substance as your response, but again,that's my opinion.

My feeling about the bill and the process is:

It is too based on the believe that the govornment can increase it's size and spend our way out of the current situation.

We just don't have the money!

It is full of earmarks...

The people that will be dolling out the money are selfserving, currupt, hypocrits that stuffed this bill full of everything they tried to pass in the past. This is a point that you fail to except or you are ok with.

The bill was written based on emotion and not economics.


Bottom line.... The process was just plain wrong and this bill is a joke. Thats just my opinion.

so buckman.. how does a tax break help a poor guy who cant find a job?

Its proven that an owner of a business isnt always going to take that tax break and create a job, he is usually going to pocket the profits while he can..

How did you start your business? Govornment handout? Maybe you talk the game but really don't pay the actual tax amount you should ( a little cash on the side never hurt)

It works like this. Maybe if you pay less on taxes you can afford to hire someone to clean your studio so you can do what you do best. Maybe that guy on the corner that has no job.

Bottom line. The rich guys money will get spent. I trust him more then Pelousi.

Once again if you want to pay more then by all means do.

At the very least, the bill will provide a some fiscal thrust amid stagnating demand.

How did you start your business? Govornment handout? Maybe you talk the game but really don't pay the actual tax amount you should ( a little cash on the side never hurt)

Can we have full disclosure of your income and tax returns?

How did you start your business? Govornment handout? Maybe you talk the game but really don't pay the actual tax amount you should ( a little cash on the side never hurt).

I hope your not a Yankee fan. They are one biggest welfare recipients in NYC. That new stadium with its 70+ luxury boxes is built on government hand outs. And thats just the tip of the iceberg as far as corporate subsidies go. Most of the wealth G.W. Bush accumulated that did not come from his family came from leveraging tax payer money out municipal governments in the Dallas/Ft. Worth metroplex. Corporate welfare is real and the rules allow it. From Washington all the way down to local city halls.

I read the bill. Did you? My opinion is based on my believe. You can call it crap if you want. That's your opinion. Granted, it doesn't have as much substance as your response, but again,that's my opinion.

My feeling about the bill and the process is:

It is too based on the believe that the govornment can increase it's size and spend our way out of the current situation.

We just don't have the money!

It is full of earmarks...

The people that will be dolling out the money are selfserving, currupt, hypocrits that stuffed this bill full of everything they tried to pass in the past. This is a point that you fail to except or you are ok with.

The bill was written based on emotion and not economics.


Bottom line.... The process was just plain wrong and this bill is a joke. Thats just my opinion.


So what's your solution rather than just your complaint.

I agree we can't afford to create a larger government, however at this juncture in history in the past, governments normally take action, Keynesian Economics .
Reagan was the one recent exception to the stimulus mantra, amid harsh criticism on the hill Reagan reduced the size of the federal government and cut taxes across the board.


I do agree that tax cuts have proven to invigorate the economy compared to stimulus handouts.

Would you be happier if the government did NOTHING? Sure sounds that way

It works like this. Maybe if you pay less on taxes you can afford to hire someone to clean your studio so you can do what you do best. Maybe that guy on the corner that has no job.


Unfortunately, I think MOST people would take the tax break or what not, and put that money away 'just in case' instead of hiring new people, going out to eat, buying a car, whatever. which I hope will be a valuable lesson learned here; don't exceed your means. I know my wife and I banked the last check we got, and have no illusion of spending it, other than perhaps on a house or downpayment

However... if we CAN make health care cheaper, across the board, then you reduce the cost to the employers, which would probably be a bigger help to the economy, mean while creating jobs to fix the crumbling infrastructure around the country, keeps cops copping :D and teachers teaching...

Secondly, there has got to be a huge lag between when tax breaks go into effect and when there is a benefit to the economy and jobs. how long would it take for people the realize the tax breaks and turn it into a job or benefit for someone else.

obviously this is my opinion as well, and many have and continue to call it crap :jump:

So how did Reagnanomics turn around the 80-82 financial crapola?

Not that it was anywhere near the magnitude of the 2007-201x D-event

They're giving aspirin to a cancer patient with the stimulus - it will offer some minor temporary relief but will do little for the root causes of the problem. They're only trying to cure the symptoms for now

They need to let the corporate bailouts come to a screaching halt - lack of acumen and avarice needs to be rewarded with bankruptcy, not TARP and assorted other giveaway funds as a form of welfare to the wealthy.

It will be ugly and unpleasant for all of us but if you want to set it right, I'm afraid you're going to have to take the pain and rebuild with what's left after the smoke clears.

This crew makes the Robber Barons of the late 19th Century look like a group of self-sacrificing philanthropists. And the entire country is about to pay the price.

The saddest part is that it was a broad daylight robbery - and no one stood up on their hind legs to stop it...:hs:

So
Would you be happier if the government did NOTHING? Sure sounds that way

YES, I WOULD....and I'm not the only one.

They're giving aspirin to a cancer patient with the stimulus - it will offer some minor temporary relief but will do little for the root causes of the problem. They're only trying to cure the symptoms for now

They need to let the corporate bailouts come to a screaching halt - lack of acumen and avarice needs to be rewarded with bankruptcy, not TARP and assorted other giveaway funds as a form of welfare to the wealthy.

It will be ugly and unpleasant for all of us but if you want to set it right, I'm afraid you're going to have to take the pain and rebuild with what's left after the smoke clears.

This crew makes the Robber Barons of the late 19th Century look like a group of self-sacrificing philanthropists. And the entire country is about to pay the price.

The saddest part is that it was a broad daylight robbery - and no one stood up on their hind legs to stop it...:hs:

Somewhat like the Savings and Loan crash but on a much larger, global scale.

YES, I WOULD....and I'm not the only one.

Unfortunately, our elected officials now feel this is their chance to fleece us, yet again.

But the sheep are content to graze , you can't even get a HD Converter certficiate at the moment.

And if you don't like the stimulus Bill.

Don't take the money!!

That will be the day.........
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/16/begala.carolina/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

even lib wacko critical of stimulus

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/17/cafferty.stimulus/index.html

And if you don't like the stimulus Bill.

Don't take the money!!

That will be the day.........
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/16/begala.carolina/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

Do my kids have to pay the bill?

No, move to Moldavia

It's funny how the Reps. reps voted against it b/c they can stand on idealogy but many of the Repub. governers who have to balance their budgets are in favor of the bill.

Lower Healthcare Costs: To save not only jobs, but money and lives, we will update and computerize our
healthcare system to cut red tape, prevent medical mistakes, and help reduce healthcare costs by billions of
dollars each year.
! $20 billion for health information technology to prevent medical mistakes, provide better care to patients
and introduce cost-saving efficiencies.
! $4.1 billion to provide for preventative care and to evaluate the most effective healthcare treatments.

I wonder why the ACLU hasn't jumped on this big brother intrusion into our lives. Imagine the government going totally off to the left, completely socialist, even pink maybe. The government will have a list of everyone who isn't healthy. Remember the long march in the movie Soylent Green. Only those affluent people who can afford private health care wouldn't have thier lives intruded upon. Put on too much weight and the health care Nazi comes out from behind the counter yelling, "no health care for you, no see doctor, go away".

No, move to Moldavia

Can I fish for tuna there?

Side note: Do you think the Dow will hit 7000 by the time Obama gives his speach in Denver?

Can I fish for tuna there?

Side note: Do you think the Dow will hit 7000 by the time Obama gives his speach in Denver?

I think TDF had you pegged...this is about on par with wishing for another 9/11 because it will make Bush look bad.

Rush Limbaugh made a daily habbit out of mocking Liberals for this.

Buck, are you really a Liberal?

-spence

Excellent Frontline on the Banking Crisis tonight.
Rebroadcast at like 0300 tomorrow for those of you the a Dish-dvr.
Can't say it like George sorry.

I think TDF had you pegged...this is about on par with wishing for another 9/11 because it will make Bush look bad.

Rush Limbaugh made a daily habbit out of mocking Liberals for this.

Buck, are you really a Liberal?

-spence

I don't think asking if the Dow will hit 7000 is on par with wishing thousands dead. IMO

Excellent Frontline on the Banking Crisis tonight.
Rebroadcast at like 0300 tomorrow for those of you the a Dish-dvr.
Can't say it like George sorry.

I caught it at work and it was excellent - you can watch it in it's entirety at PBS.org - Inside the Meltdown.

They did an incredible job of unraveling and explaining what caused the banking crisis, which is complex in the details - really well done. Interesting perspective on Bernanke, Paulson and Geithner too - it was an eye-opener for me.

Not exactly light viewing but I'd call it a must see - it will give you a deeper understanding of what happened and where things may end up.

You know, I heard the stimulus likened to giving aspirin to a cancer patient - if you watch Inside the Meltdown you'll understand how far the cancer has metasticized in our economy and across the globe - and why...:hs:

I'm going to try to stay awake for the 2 AM rebroadcast on GBH 2 - at the very least, I will watch it again tomorrow online.

Glad at least someone else on this board saw this.
I will be watching it again tonight or tomorrow evening, excellent stuff

Not only does it show how far it spread but how fast and how even unrelated senior officials thought various components of the finance system were.
It seems like a true cancer that spreads through the lymphatic system only appearing elsewhere after the 'supposed' all clear has been sounded.

In our economy its more like we have multiple cancers attacking various parts of the system, all purported to be terminal by those areas under attack.

Banks, manufacturers, state and local government, etc..

Glad at least someone else on this board saw this.
I will be watching it again tonight or tomorrow evening, excellent stuff


Too busy watching reruns of The Daily Show :hihi:

I caught it at work and it was excellent - you can watch it in it's entirety at PBS.org - Inside the Meltdown.

They did an incredible job of unraveling and explaining what caused the banking crisis, which is complex in the details - really well done. Interesting perspective on Bernanke, Paulson and Geithner too - it was an eye-opener for me.

Not exactly light viewing but I'd call it a must see - it will give you a deeper understanding of what happened and where things may end up.

You know, I heard the stimulus likened to giving aspirin to a cancer patient - if you watch Inside the Meltdown you'll understand how far the cancer has metasticized in our economy and across the globe - and why...:hs:

I'm going to try to stay awake for the 2 AM rebroadcast on GBH 2 - at the very least, I will watch it again tomorrow online.

When is it showing ? Weds at 2am or Thursday at 2am?

Here is the link to the complete FRONTLINE show online

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meltdown/view/

I wonder why the ACLU hasn't jumped on this big brother intrusion into our lives. Imagine the government going totally off to the left, completely socialist, even pink maybe. The government will have a list of everyone who isn't healthy. Remember the long march in the movie Soylent Green. Only those affluent people who can afford private health care wouldn't have thier lives intruded upon. Put on too much weight and the health care Nazi comes out from behind the counter yelling, "no health care for you, no see doctor, go away".

Nah, never happen :rolleyes:, we have been promised the Same health care program that Congress has. :shocked:

Think that promise might be lost in the shuffle along with the more than the few others already broken :huh: :(