I challenge SF to show up at ASMFC and lobby for regulation change like the rest of us do. Particpate in the system that brought back Striped Bass and continues to manage a fishery that is getting harder to manage by the day. Despite our imperfections, the democratic system of fisheries management continues to work, and will as long as fishermen show up.
.

Patrick, you still putting fish stink on your plugs?

I understand your point but I have to disagree with this. We are doing a terrible job managing the fisheries, especially on the east coast. The best we can seem to do is get a fish stock to cycle up from near depleted, to a number where they are just getting by in most cases. Stripers are a little different because of the high interest in them by recreational fisherman. If ASMFC would bite the bullet and do the right thing in the short term, we could greatly improve the amount of fish we take both commercially and recreationally. Look at cod, fluke, whiting, ling, weakfish and wolffish. Would you say we are doing a good job with any of these, let alone bait fish. The democratic process biggest failure is it's focus on the short term.

I don't make very many meetings because of my work. But I take the time to read the reports and minutes from the meetings. I write letters when I see request for input. But I don't think in the end it means much. ASMFC does not manage the fishery to maximize take, they manage it on the short term trying to make everyone happy.

I agree we need serious improvements to fisheries managmeent but I also am absoutely certain involving the legislature is the completely wrong direction.

If the legislation (Congress) hadn't gotten involved in 1982 we'd likely have no fish today, so be careful what you wish for.
Autonomy is good to a point, but opposing this bill simply because the legislature is involved makes no sense to me. The current system is all over the map with regard to its priorities.

"Autonomy is good to a point, but opposing this bill simply because the legislature is involved makes no sense to me. The current system is all over the map with regard to its priorities."

Any individual or group can submit a bill to their legislator for introduction. Is that a system that makes more sense than scientific management of the resource?

"Without protection could our bass population end up like our cod population has? "
No protection? Size limits, bag limits, quotas, R&R harvest, etc.

If the legislation hadn't gotten involved in 1982 we'd likely have no fish today, so be careful what you wish for.
Autonomy is good to a point, but opposing this bill simply because the legislature is involved makes no sense to me. The current system is all over the map with regard to its priorities.

Great point Mike.

JFI - It seems snook and redfish have been protected by legislative action in most Gulf of Mexico states. Rec anglers in that area have reaped the benefits. We tend to be a little "gun shy" up here in the NE.

DZ

From what I think I know. Each state must have regulations approved by the asmfc for sb. Talks were introduced this year to roll-over the catch not caught this year to next years quota. This did not pass but was not without argument to do so. If you do not think an atlantic state will jump all over the asmfc asking to approve an increase in their share as a result of MA's conservation, I think you are dead wrong. The asmfc meeting on sb has already stated that the stocks are good and overfishing does not exist. So you put more fish out there.....

Why do want SF introducing legislation for us? Who's next, PETA? The Humane Society?

I do not think there is a person among us that can honestly say that the state of marine fisheries is in great shape, or that all the science is correct, but it is our reference point. Let's work within the framework we have to institute better policy.

double runner

just because u release all your fish doesn't mean they all live. the mortality rate is about 8-10% for released fish.

also

if u add up all the lbs of fish caught and killed on the million plus trips recs make in mass each year + the 8 - 10 % mortality on released fish u'd come up with a far more dead lbs of fish than the 1 million lbs the comms take.

so

if u really wanted to protect the most fish u'd ban the recs and catch and release and just let the comm's fish. think of all the carbon savings too!

Matt, it's a shared resource. I have said from the beginning I don't want to take away any one's livelihood but we all need to do our part.

Yes I understand there is a small mortality rate on released fish. This depends largely upon the angler. I don't chunk so 99% of my fish are lip hooked, with crushed barbs. Very easy to release. But not everyone is the same so that is something we need to look at. So at the very worst case I kill one out of every 10 fish I catch. How many out of 10 fish caught do the comm's or rec boats kill? And typically their fish are much larger than those caught from shore

Restrictions on charter boats and party boats as well as comm. as to size and quantity of fish kept

Increase in licensing costs across the board.

Also, fishing from shore, I have very limited access to the big cows that boats can get to so if I ever hooked onto that rare cow I'd probably let it go. It's not like I am pulling out a boat load of the big breeders every day.

Previous precedent indicates the comm's would be the 1st to be shut off, which by the way I don't want to see. However, if we all reduce our kills then there would be enough for everyone. So long as the system keeps getting abused and overused the declining numbers will continue until there is a moratorium and then everyone loses.

So, what do you want to see? A compromise and we all get to keep fishing or a moratorium?

For some reason everyone thinks I am against the comm's. I am for protecting the species and us all taking less to do so. No one group should bear all the burden but we also don't need to get rich off the resource either

A permit $ increase isn't really going to do much more than put a few more dollars in the states pocket at the expense of all fisherman be they full time or p.t. (cost of the permit is deductible under business expenses so the guys selling and paying their taxes get a little relief.) Yes, it may eliminate those guys who still hold a permit but don't fish commercially (no quota impact) and those who might be using the permit to take over their rec. limit, but I still can't believe that's a big number...especially if the price is up! I mean really..if you're doing it for food, 20 lb. x $3 buys you more groceries than a couple of fillets.

"So, what do you want to see? A compromise and we all get to keep fishing or a moratorium?"

I'm all in support of compromise but this bill is what's on the table and it's not about compromise.

No compromise. Game fish or Complete moratorium.

Why is a striped bass different than a migritory game bird like a duck or a goose? They are managed by the federal govt. Stripers should be managed by the federal govt and not at the mercy of states that are dominated by those who would kill each other over the last bass (not an original thought, It is a rehash of a paragraph in Dagnaults book eastern tides). Striped bass belong to all the people and should be a game fish. Or atleast there should be a slot limit. The commercials esp in Mass kill the fish with the best genes in terms of survival and egg production (30 fish is just not right)! Just like the deer hunter who allways goes for the big buck and ten years later wonders why their are no deer with nice racks. Knot head you took the best genes out of the population. I know this is a rambling poorly spelled post but I am enraged. I think the bass population is going the way of buffalo and we are to blame!

Why do some people insist that the commercials only target the biggest fish with thf best genes and so on???I know I want to get my 30 fish and get off the water, if they are 34" or bigger they go in the box... The bulk of the fish during the com season comes off the cape. I am willing to bet that the usual average on a com catchOn the cape is about 16-17lbs...
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"(30 fish is just not right)"
What is hard to understand here...we're dealing with a quota ...a million pounds is a million pounds...one at a time or 30 at a time. The main purpose of the weekly 30/30/30/5 open days & quota was to spread the catch out for a longer period during the season to avoid flooding the market, depressing the price and to allow the market/buyers to plan for a consistent supply over a longer period. If we went to 10 a day it's just more time on the water and $$ in gas.....same million pounds.

People also have the misconeption that every single person with a com license is doing 30 fish every single day...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Lets just say that fishing the haba exclusively if they cut it to ten a day the Cape guys might be a little more impacted than me! When CCB goes off I always cringe and start planning my days with a little more urgency!

...and those who might be using the permit to take over their rec. limit,

FYI...Harvesting over a rec limit to take home is illegal..there is no commercial permit that makes that third fish legal in MA...the commercial harvested fish must be sold and counted on the quota without exception...anyone that tells you different is misinformed....this a HUGE problem and I would bet good money that we hear a rulemaking to fix this and some other issues in the MA system in the coming months

No compromise. Game fish or Complete moratorium.

Gamefish = No Harvest

Complete Moratorium = No Target

SF Legislation = Allocation Grab with almost no mortality reduction

So, what do you want to see? A compromise and we all get to keep fishing or a moratorium?

Can I seriously ask what info you have the sugest the S-B management is anywhere near a moratorium? I really would like to hear a reference to a perr reviewed scientific document.

FYI...there are about a half dozen very automatic triggers for madatory conservation measures built into the pland and although I am by far not always happy with the maagement of S-B we are so very far from most of the triggers to even suggest a moratoruim is iminent is just insanity.

The current "turn of the crank" stock asessment update is likely to cause some conservation measures be enacted but this stock is still pretty healthy by any standard.

If the legislation (Congress) hadn't gotten involved in 1982 we'd likely have no fish today, so be careful what you wish for.
Autonomy is good to a point, but opposing this bill simply because the legislature is involved makes no sense to me. The current system is all over the map with regard to its priorities.

FEDERAL LEGISLATION to be accurate...This is my point exactly...If one state gives up it's fish the other states will divide it up. Banning the commercial harvest in MA will only get VA, NJ and other states more commercial quota. This question has been asked and anwered many many times and no matter how SF spins the answer it is what it is.

The place to get improvemet in the S-B management Plan is the management body responsible for the overall management pland and that is ASMFC. Like it or not they manage Striped Bass.

If the SF Legislation is so good why are they always shopping it from State to State and have not passed it anywhere.

Let's not forget that a portion of the MA quota comes from fish caught in RI and CT.Lots of anglers willing to take their catch over the line to cash in.The night time is the right time.I don't think this is news to contender cop.

The place to get improvemet in the S-B management Plan is the management body responsible for the overall management pland and that is ASMFC. Like it or not they manage Striped Bass.



Absolutely correct, but very possibly unrealistic. Since the ASMFC manages other stocks other than Striped Bass its representatives always include people who make a living from commercial fishing (of types other than striped bass) and marine fishery employees who work closely and are friendly with (and sympathetic to) the commercial industry. This is not wrong, commercial fishing provides food and benefit to the non-fishing public. These people, however, will naturally have a bias towards full utilization of a species.....to do otherwise represents a harmful waste from their perspective.

If the board were composed of people ONLY interested in striped bass there would be a chance for change. Unfortunately, I don't see that as very likely to happen. People who value striped bass most highly as a recreational resource will always be a minority on the ASMFC.....and its management decisions will continue to reflect that.

The ASMFC is a political creation. Changing the priority of striped bass management will likely require a political solution. If not, then a legal one driven by non-fishing interests will eventually happen (in my opinion).

Why do some people insist that the commercials only target the biggest fish with thf best genes and so on???I know I want to get my 30 fish and get off the water, if they are 34" or bigger they go in the box... The bulk of the fish during the com season comes off the cape. I am willing to bet that the usual average on a com catchOn the cape is about 16-17lbs...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

shouldn't you be doing something a bit more productive?

If the SF Legislation is so good why are they always shopping it from State to State and have not passed it anywhere.

I don't agree with it, but I'm suggesting if your sentiments represent MSBA's stance (opposing it due to fear of the legislature being involved) then it doesn't make sense to me...its simply political posturing.

Opposing the bill due to the fact its not a solution to a perceived problem makes a little more sense to me. With either case you're opposing it (good), but there's got to be more meat on the bone, so to speak.

As an add on to the above, I would imagine the legislature doesn't want to be involved anyways.

Intherapy, gonna be drifting and dreamin' the sat and sun... We passed on today, no point with this front...need a 60!!
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sup K

"Seriously though. As I have said from the beginning...a multi faceted approach that has slot limits and restrictions on quantities from both rec and commercial. And also the complete elimination of dragging for menhaden

As far as the rec goes perhaps there needs to be different classifications to distinguish between charters, personal boats not chartering, and non-boaters"

we can't enforce the rules we have now and your gonna enforce this??

"(30 fish is just not right)"
What is hard to understand here...we're dealing with a quota ...a million pounds is a million pounds...one at a time or 30 at a time. The main purpose of the weekly 30/30/30/5 open days & quota was to spread the catch out for a longer period during the season to avoid flooding the market, depressing the price and to allow the market/buyers to plan for a consistent supply over a longer period. If we went to 10 a day it's just more time on the water and $$ in gas.....same million pounds.



***lighting match, stand back BEGIN FLAME ***

You comm guys with "the quota is the quota no matter how fast we take them" mentality make me laugh. Why not take them all in one day then? Unlimited? 3/d is not enough, 10/d is not enough, you guys said 30/d is really not enough, 50 is a minimum you would like per day...But no, you need to get yours as fast and as many as possible befor the next guy can catch his...jezz... to me this spells personal greed. (Not to mention 14" comm fluke is a HOAX as well )

If you dropped it to something like 3 fish/day the $/lb would be even higher, the season would be more than just a few weeks and the fish would be taken over a much larger area, more people would be involved over a longer period . What we have now is 60+ boats working an area the size of a football field hard for 10+ hours a day putting a big dent in a local fish population leving next to nothing after the season is over. Also I think it would reduce the pressure on the bunker that get up this way. If you just need to get 3 fish, you don't need to go net a 1000 to put a 300 dead bunker in the water every other day to do it. Heck if you are any good, you can catch 3 fish with no bait. If you need 30+ fish, you need a lot of bait on board. (BTW what is RI's daily limit? )

Heck, forget this bogus R&R bass fishery all together, if the "quota" is the be all and end all, then if they just made the draggers sell the bycatch (instead of dumping it overboard dead unreported) they could meet the easily meet the quota ALONE without ANY R&R comm fishing. The money the state would SAVE from not having to give the juicy (and mostly bogus)tax write-offs to the comm R&R's (who we all know fish recreational with the gear they are writing off with, also I would suspect there is a little fibbing going one with regard to write offs as we all know fishermen tend to lie a bit) would more than make up for any loss due to loss of no SB lic fees. Moreover the charter guys should be counted under commercial, they are a commercial operation, they are getting paid to catch bass, that is commercial bass fishing.




Most comm R&Rer's just don't see the the beauty of the SB and don't think of it as a special fish that should be around for EVERYONE to catch, not to remove at some bogus maximum yield theory for the benefit of a few. It is just something to catch and sell to them. Most comm guys are doing to this to write off their equipment (boat fuel slip gear, etc) and put a few bucks in their pocket. Why should the public be forced to subsidize your hobby? End this farce once and for all. shut it down.

GAMEFISH IS COMING
***burn baby burn, END FLAME***

"Seriously though. As I have said from the beginning...a multi faceted approach that has slot limits and restrictions on quantities from both rec and commercial. And also the complete elimination of dragging for menhaden

As far as the rec goes perhaps there needs to be different classifications to distinguish between charters, personal boats not chartering, and non-boaters"

we can't enforce the rules we have now and your gonna enforce this??

Well if rules can not be followed by responsible adults then maybe it needs to be shut down.

Someone said it earlier...money is at the root of all the problems. Get rid of the greed. There are those that care about the stock and those that care about how much they can make off it

Makomike, sorry bud but you are wrong... Not all states require guides / charter boats need to report. Not a single captain I know reports in nj and I have an endorsement in mass that does not require a striped bass catch report. New York for instance does...
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Go back and read what I wrote. I was not talking about any state requirement, but rather the federal requirement for all federal permit holders. I'd guess that about 95% of all charter/party boats hold a federal license and they are all required to file federal trip reports for every trip. Frankly, I don't understand how any charter boat could make a living without having a federal license.

This thread reminds me of a good barroom brawl and after 25 years in the business I've seen more than one New Bedford squaredance break out...:smokin:

Now that the combatants have pretty much finished beating the Jehovah out of each other after Mike stepped in as bouncer, there are some obvious conclusions

To a man, there seems to be little disagreement that the inshore striped bass fishery is in trouble and I hear that opinion from a pretty broad range of veteran surfmen that I respect. These are men with 30, 40 and in some cases more than 50 years in the fishery, both recreationally and commercially, and there are few, if any, substitutes for that kind of historical perspective.

Ultimately, whether you like it or not, striped bass are a shared resource and Stripers Forever is attempting an exclusive resource grab for the recreational sector. Period.

If - and this is really the fly in the ointment - if the data gathered from recreational licensing goes as expected, I think the recreational side - of which I am a member - is going to be in denial for some time to come over the facts

No one is blameless. The regulations have to be tightened and both sides have to take a hit and take the pain - the alternative is going to be a moritorium which will serve no one user group's best interests

And since I don't have a dog in the fight financially on either side, I don't have to "be careful" - I don't run a charter operation, don't manufacture or sell striped bass plugs, tackle, waders, bags, titanium pliers, books, flip-flops or any of the other accoutrements that mark your standing as a seasoned and knowledgeable sharpie

Nor do I have a commercial license, although I have many friends who do and that is their right regarding a shared resource

Money, as we all know, is at the root of all evil - although at this point in my life I've come to realize that ego and a deep-seated need for external validation is a pretty frigging close second

THAT was really good!

What I think would help is to make it mandatory to show your sales slip from the year before in order to get a license again the next year. I bet a big percent of the licenses in MA go to people who just pay the fee so they can skirt the bag limits. They take all the fish a com license allows but sell zero. This is just paying a fee to get around the bag limit laws. People do it for taug and fluke as well as stripers. It should be a regulation something like if you had a license last year , you cannot get a renewal ubnless you can prove you sold more than x amount of fish the year before.


also good

just 2 cents here, i know how lousy the inshore fishing has been these last couple years. I honestly do not believe that it is because of the amount of fish com's or recs are taking, or that it is because their #'s are getting low. I believe that these fish have adapted to their surroundings, meaning because of a general lack of enough forage inshore to hold large bodies of fish, they have been surviving on sand eels, ocean herring, whiting, macks etc. in the vast areas of cold water offshore, where we would never expect them to be.

...and......the well respected Marine Explorer.....Jacques Cousteau was not a big fan of recreational sport fishing....his views on food fish(i.e. striped bass) is a necessary supplier of needed protein......with a sucessful and sustainable fish management program-which is in place under the auspices of ASMFC......and..what is on the horizon is not good news for all involved in the multiple use striped bass resource........MPAs and other fishing restricted zones for the Atlantic coast...possible closures of major onshore, near shore. and offshore areas that are currently being utilized by both recreational and commercial fishing interests....not to mention enviro/animal rights groups waiting in the wings to pull the plug on all uses...............

Hey Sandman do you ever read anyones posts and attempt to understand what the other guy's opinion is, like most of the other posters in this debate, or do you just like to hear yourself repeat your same old tired mantra. Since I did read your post let me respond to your latest diatribe:
1st - a simple look at the economics of your 3 a day limit proposal would convince most of the obvious flaw in that logic. More costs, more fuel, more man hrs....same quota.

2nd - Well my "math challenged" friend do you really think the entire commercial fleet consists of the 60 boats fishing in "your" spot. Now let's see..a million pounds/20 lb. avg. = 50,000 fish/60 boats=833 fish ea. boat/30 = 27.7 for each boat for virtually every day of the season....roughly 16,000lb. a boat. A quick look at the permit/catch data previously posted shows this is BS. If I'm wrong be assured there will be 61 boats there nxt. year.

3rd - We're also killing all the bunker....never mind..this is just to far from reality to even comprehend.

4th - So instead of a regulated R&R fishery you would rather see the draggers sell their bycatch...of course then the bycatch just might turn into the target species. We wouldn't want to address the bycatch issue on it's own...just give these "few" guys the quota to catch....while they're dragging in the sacred EEZ and shut out the other couple of thousand guys who just may also rely on that income.

5 - Juicy, bogus tax write offs? I guess you never filled out a small business return...what was that about some type of log books you sell?

6. Charter fish = commercial catch. So I guess that means...Sandman can't catch a fish in his new boat (only because the new rig isn't ready for sea of course) so he charters w/CowHunter to catch his 2 and those are now commercial fish? Tell that to the restaurant who wants to sell that fish, the tourists who want to eat it or the guy who works in the fish market.

7. Most comm this.... most comm. that...Well Karnac...I would say that mostly you don't have a clue about most anything we're about.

I can understand commercials if fishing is the main source of income for the family. If you fish commercially to reduce the costs of boating or just do it to make money its not right. All I know that I fish like a bandit for a keeper and then let it go. You commercials if you had your way would destroy a beatuful wild creature to line your pockets. And dont give me the argument that you are entitled to your fair share as you have in the past. When our ancesors came to this country they fournd it to be a virgin wilderness with wild game for all. You cant just go into a national park and take as many as you want. We have reached a point where commercial fishing and hunting should not be legal. Market hunting for ducks has been banned for a great many years. It is not legal to sell trout and other game fish in any state that I know of. Bottom line if people want to eat striped bass they should be raised through aqua-culture not through the destruction of a wild symbol of our nation that brings pleasure to millions of Americans rather than making a bunch of people with other jobs rich. Yes I want you guys put of of bussiness before you destroy the resource.

"or just do it to make money its not right"

HUH??

Personally I fish commercially so I can argue with guys who sound like they took a wrong turn @ the PETA web page.

I can understand commercials if fishing is the main source of income for the family. If you fish commercially to reduce the costs of boating or just do it to make money its not right. All I know that I fish like a bandit for a keeper and then let it go. You commercials if you had your way would destroy a beatuful wild creature to line your pockets. And dont give me the argument that you are entitled to your fair share as you have in the past. When our ancesors came to this country they fournd it to be a virgin wilderness with wild game for all. You cant just go into a national park and take as many as you want. We have reached a point where commercial fishing and hunting should not be legal. Market hunting for ducks has been banned for a great many years. It is not legal to sell trout and other game fish in any state that I know of. Bottom line if people want to eat striped bass they should be raised through aqua-culture not through the destruction of a wild symbol of our nation that brings pleasure to millions of Americans rather than making a bunch of people with other jobs rich. Yes I want you guys put of of bussiness before you destroy the resource.

So let me get this straight. (please insert any name for "I" ) I bust my hump all work week long to make my living for myself, family, community, etc. I have the good fortune to own a boat, maybe, and have the skill to catch a legally marketable fish. So, in the course of a season I can put, say 5K, 10K, 15K worth of fish on the market. Because I bust my hump for 50k at "work" I should not be "able" to get a license and sell fish. Who are you kiddin?

Since when did a bass become some almost holy symbol? It's a fish.

Farm raised fish taste like chit....

<<Most comm R&Rer's just don't see the the beauty of the SB and don't think of it as a special fish that should be around for EVERYONE to catch, not to remove at some bogus maximum yield theory for the benefit of a few. It is just something to catch and sell to them>>

I resent that statement....I have been fishing for striped bass for close to 40 years, (commercially);I have fished recreationally during that time for bass (when commercial seasons are closed), because I love to fish, i.e., on the water at sunrise, fresh air, exercise, etc. I LOVE everything about bass fishing....and if I can make a legal, supplemental income off of that, to give a person who does not have access to that resource the right to walk into a seafood market or restaurant, have a bass fillet to eat, just adds to the whole experience. After all, it is "a special fish that should be around for EVERYONE to catch". Suffice it to say, you said it in your own words.....Its a shared resource for all.

I, and others like me, abided by the moratorium of the early 80's; we knew that it was needed for the health of the fishery. We also knew the plan would work, and the bass would recover, and that quota's would be devised based on historical catch records for individual states. That has come to fruition. The bass are a recoverd species...with up and down cycles that have been recorded since records have been kept.

As an aside, I attend various marine fisheries mtgs, public hearings, advisory panels, and I am so appreciative of the scientists and biologists of our state agencies to work to solve all the various problems that are involved with marine fisheries. These people for the most part are smart, dedicated people. They do care.... the tools of their science (data modeling, sampling, computer-aided tools, on the water analysis/dragging) are constantly being utilized....It's a shame that they sometimes get a bad rap by people who don't take the time to get to know them...

***lighting match, stand back BEGIN FLAME ***

You comm guys with "the quota is the quota no matter how fast we take them" mentality make me laugh. Why not take them all in one day then? Unlimited? 3/d is not enough, 10/d is not enough, you guys said 30/d is really not enough, 50 is a minimum you would like per day...But no, you need to get yours as fast and as many as possible befor the next guy can catch his...jezz... to me this spells personal greed. (Not to mention 14" comm fluke is a HOAX as well )

If you dropped it to something like 3 fish/day the $/lb would be even higher, the season would be more than just a few weeks and the fish would be taken over a much larger area, more people would be involved over a longer period . What we have now is 60+ boats working an area the size of a football field hard for 10+ hours a day putting a big dent in a local fish population leving next to nothing after the season is over. Also I think it would reduce the pressure on the bunker that get up this way. If you just need to get 3 fish, you don't need to go net a 1000 to put a 300 dead bunker in the water every other day to do it. Heck if you are any good, you can catch 3 fish with no bait. If you need 30+ fish, you need a lot of bait on board. (BTW what is RI's daily limit? )

Heck, forget this bogus R&R bass fishery all together, if the "quota" is the be all and end all, then if they just made the draggers sell the bycatch (instead of dumping it overboard dead unreported) they could meet the easily meet the quota ALONE without ANY R&R comm fishing. The money the state would SAVE from not having to give the juicy (and mostly bogus)tax write-offs to the comm R&R's (who we all know fish recreational with the gear they are writing off with, also I would suspect there is a little fibbing going one with regard to write offs as we all know fishermen tend to lie a bit) would more than make up for any loss due to loss of no SB lic fees. Moreover the charter guys should be counted under commercial, they are a commercial operation, they are getting paid to catch bass, that is commercial bass fishing.




Most comm R&Rer's just don't see the the beauty of the SB and don't think of it as a special fish that should be around for EVERYONE to catch, not to remove at some bogus maximum yield theory for the benefit of a few. It is just something to catch and sell to them. Most comm guys are doing to this to write off their equipment (boat fuel slip gear, etc) and put a few bucks in their pocket. Why should the public be forced to subsidize your hobby? End this farce once and for all. shut it down.

GAMEFISH IS COMING
***burn baby burn, END FLAME***
The striped bass commercial fishery is a disgrace...it is a disgrace of the democratic principle of will and benefit of the majority, and the idea of a public resource protected for the greatest good of the greatest number. The commercial fishery is a disgrace of management, enforcement, and the reluctant compliance of its participants... to which I refer to the Buyers, the Counters, the Middlemen of all levels, as well as the R&R suppliers. Kill this commercial fishery.

Get rid of the greed.


Yep , if we could do that we could solve about 90% of all the worlds problems. The tough part is how? :)

Yep , if we could do that we could solve about 90% of all the worlds problems. The tough part is how? :)

Crafty is on to the answer. Reread what he said, it is, I think, the most intelligent thing that has come out of this thread.


Money, as we all know, is at the root of all evil - although at this point in my life I've come to realize that ego and a deep-seated need for external validation is a pretty frigging close second

So let's have a group hug, :gh:, somebody lock this thread, and all get back to bashing people from Franklin.

WOW!!! one filibuster from Sauerkraut and it all gets brokeback mountain.

It boils down to the law;whether you fish comm or rec or a little of both.If you are observing the established laws then you are treating the fishery with respect.This thread is a classic example of why opinions are like a holes,everyone has one and they all stink.Me,I guess I fall into that category of angler which Crafty described.I too will be in VA beach in a few weeks to try and vacuum every slob out of the sea in order to win some dough.Along the way I hope to get some laughs,meet some new people and most of all...fish again.

5 - Juicy, bogus tax write offs? I guess you never filled out a small business return...what was that about some type of log books you sell?

Howabout all the guys selling to the back of restaurants right off the boat? Or crossing state lines with fish?

I'm sure plenty of people on here know names. :rotf2:

Well if you ever ate bass on the South Shore @ Bobby Hackett's or the old Red Coach grills in the 60's & 70's there's a good chance it was delivered out of the back of an old Ford station wagon, but today you would have to be a fool to risk boat, truck, fines, etc. to sell to other than a legit. buyer or to sell fish without a permit....and my wife doesn't let me cross state lines so that's not an issue.
Frankly if you're so concerned about the resource and "know names" and aren't calling someone out then you shouldn't be pointing fingers. And if you ever see me breaking the "laws" well my name is *******...my number and the EPO's are in the book. And if I meet you on the water remind me that you're the guy that insinuated that I'm a crook.:devil2:

I recently spoke to a friend of mine about this issue. This is a life long fisherman who used to be in the commercial business. There is no doubt in my mind that if he was still a commercial fisherman that he would have been able to retire from what he could have made but he considers some things more important than the almighty $$$.

Here are his thoughts in his own words;

The typical tactic of defending all comm's as being honest and above board is still being beaten to death by an individual that either never fishes or talks to another comm, or is completely ignorant to the facts.
The number of fish sold without reporting, AKA black market, in my opinion and estimation, is fully equal to the reported catch.
***** is towing the line, defending his "right" to kill as many fish as he can without any sense of responsibilty for his actions. Brings me back to the quote "People will eat Squid".
Disregarding the clause submitted in the bill where Mass reserves to comm quota as conservation stock is somehow missed in the argument. Using Jerseys mistake of allowing recs to keep an extra fish, is also their excuse to fight this as just another way to allow the high end $'s the recs spend compared to comm's as a money grab by the government.
There are way too many recs out there that have no clue as to what is happening right now. I recently talked with a boat owner about the status of Stripers, and he showed exactly what I've been saying for quite some time. He only started fishing for Bass 8 to 10 years ago. He justifies stuffing the seat cushions with fish to offset the cost of fuel. If he doesn't come in with at least 8 fish, the number he designated, then it wasn't worth leaving the ramp. I suspect he also has outlets to sell his fish as well. There are way too many fishermen out there that bought boats during the real estate bubble on false income, and fished stocks on the rebound. Everything looked rosey, and life was good. 24 foot boats fully outfitted with electronics, and networks with cell phones, allowed less than average knowledge possesing fishermen to achieve great success hammering Bass at the Block and Montauk. To those that never fished the crash years, the great majority of them out there, they have no understanding that what they were seeing was as false as the Freddy Mac/ Fanny Mae mortgage programs that people were using to buy houses they couldn't afford with money they didn't have.
It is amazing to me that Stripers Forever is slammed by people who do understand the repurcussions of the current status quo. I would bet that ******embellishes his number of years on the water, as he would understand that the fish are not showing up in the places or numbers we used to get them at during the pre-crash years.
Tunnel vision reigns supreme with him and his brethren, all they see are the numbers in the bank account. Bass are nothing but money and as I have said in the past, that is all that matters to him and his type.
If I had not lived the crash or maintained the Bass are dollars attitude, I could easily have been making 10 grand or more a year in un-reported sales. There were times when I had the boats in the water that temptation was real, and the number of times I was approached would astound you. My reputation, pre internet, was well known on the Island, the armada would follow me and watch through bino's to see what I was doing. Playing with them would have me laughing for days as people started pissing on their tubes, copying what they thought I was doing to catch fish.
Continue the fight guy's, they care not about us or our children, or grand children. It's all about the numbers in the bank.

Convinces me more than ever it needs to be given permanent game fish status

This thread should be aboutStriped Bass regulation. Not slinging mud at each other and calling each other out. Fact is we are ALL here because we fish and at some point we have all killed at least some fish. So lets keep it civilized please. If you want to call someone out or accuse them of breaking the law do it in private. It doesnt belong here.

We'll I'll apologize if the tone of my posts went over the line, but....Jenn as far as removing my name, I'm not afraid to put my name behind my position and I prefer to let those insulting me know who they are talking to.

Me,I guess I fall into that category of angler which Crafty described..

Ya missed the point. The need for external validation applies to the guy with a flyrod as well as the guy with a gaff. You are right, though, that we all use these fish for our own purposes so nobody is holier than anybody else as long as they are acting within the law.

You are right, though, that we all use these fish for our own purposes so nobody is holier than anybody else as long as they are acting within the law.

...even guys from Franklin :fishin:

I have been reading this long enough and figured I would finally make a post. YOUR ALL WRONG. Only kidding. But my take is that no matter what the reg's are or will be. There are not enough resources to enforce the laws.

In reply to the gentleman who said its just a fish! He said it all. To the commercials its just money pure and simple to the rest of us who dont sell our catch its a way of life. I have spent the best parts of my life fishing for bass. I live where I live to fish I work the job I have to be able to fish often and hard. Beside my family bass fishing is the best part of my life. To you it is just a fish but to me it is a part of my soul. I know it sounds hokey or corney but it is the truth. Commercials by definition are in it for the money. Remember if it is a million dollar yankee first baseman or a commercial fisherman when they say its not the money you know dammmed well it is. I know this is only a limited example but I know commercials who kill as many bass as possible and then fish scup with traps rather than catch a bass they cant sell. What a sportsman! Yes you do it for the money and nothing else. But dont feel too bad the various individuals who make policy in regard to the resource dont care about its long term viability either.

...even guys from Franklin :fishin:

Oh no, not at all! You can't be holy if you don't have a soul, and souls in Franklin guys are about as common as Tiger Woods Mother's Day cards these days.

It's this kind of debate by some that has lowered the public view of the commercial fisherman from the once romantic image of fisherman in pretty locals to the now, bitter, greedy and somewhat hostile hard-ass. There is no place for this anymore. If you notice they never talk about the protection of the species much, rather, how much of it is theirs to take with personal attacks of others thrown in.

Internet threads like this we all know will do little to effect laws but they are entertaining to see everyone's perspective on the matter.

Time for me to move on from this one it's getting old. unsubscribe.

Yeah... Damn those ba**tard Franklin guys!

I'm enjoying a delicious piece of Haddock. I'm thankful for the comm guy who caught it and got it to market.

Oh no, not at all! You can't be holy if you don't have a soul, and souls in Franklin guys are about as common as Tiger Woods Mother's Day cards these days.

hey I'm from Franklin, be nice. All I got from this long thread was eye strain a headache and the realization that most people can't agree on anything. Were doomed.:uhuh:

It's this kind of debate by some that has lowered the public view of the commercial fisherman from the once romantic image of fisherman in pretty locals to the now, bitter, greedy and somewhat hostile hard-ass. There is no place for this anymore. If you notice they never talk about the protection of the species much, rather, how much of it is theirs to take with personal attacks of others thrown in.

Internet threads like this we all know will do little to effect laws but they are entertaining to see everyone's perspective on the matter.

Time for me to move on from this one it's getting old. unsubscribe.

well, if you get yur wish to end comm fishing on sb, it will be like a two-fer.....cuz most recs won't know where to fish anymore thus a major reduction in take ! and please note the "most" in there.:rotf2:

In reply to the gentleman who said its just a fish! He said it all. To the commercials its just money pure and simple to the rest of us who dont sell our catch its a way of life. I have spent the best parts of my life fishing for bass. I live where I live to fish I work the job I have to be able to fish often and hard. Beside my family bass fishing is the best part of my life. To you it is just a fish but to me it is a part of my soul. I know it sounds hokey or corney but it is the truth. Commercials by definition are in it for the money. Remember if it is a million dollar yankee first baseman or a commercial fisherman when they say its not the money you know dammmed well it is. I know this is only a limited example but I know commercials who kill as many bass as possible and then fish scup with traps rather than catch a bass they cant sell. What a sportsman! Yes you do it for the money and nothing else. But dont feel too bad the various individuals who make policy in regard to the resource dont care about its long term viability either.

you've reallllly gone overboard this time.....thats a shame. :fury:

This tread is still smokin! Virginia beach was good to me, won the ASA Nationals today! Did a live realease with the fish. Can't believe 40 won it, there were three fifties caught just yesterday....
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Woe is me! A plague of Franklinsteins has descended upon us. They grow thick as the flies on a eel fisherman's toothbrush and multiply like machinists around a jelly doughnut. Quick, we must sprinkle canal water in their reservoir and offer prayers to St Gadabout lest they breed like seals and leave nothing for us honest plugfishermen to seek.

This tread is still smokin! Virginia beach was good to me, won the ASA Nationals today! Did a live realease with the fish. Can't believe 40 won it, there were three fifties caught just yesterday....
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

congrats, ken...you deserve it ! impressive.

How many boats?

To the commercials its just money pure and simple to the rest of us who dont sell our catch its a way of life. I have spent the best parts of my life fishing for bass. I live where I live to fish I work the job I have to be able to fish often and hard. Beside my family bass fishing is the best part of my life. To you it is just a fish but to me it is a part of my soul. I know it sounds hokey or corney but it is the truth.

I'm glad you love it so much, as I too can't imagine my life without fishing. I would say it's wrong to suggest that comm fisherman don't love it as much as you do. You can't get good enough to make money on Stripers without loving to fish for them first. The only difference between you and myself and all of the comms I happen to know is that we also make a few bucks living the life you describe above. I doubt many people comm fish because it's the only way for them to make money. They do it because they love the ocean, love to fish, and are good enough at it that someone values their skill enough to buy fish from them. Again, I ask, what is wrong for being paid for something you love? Should a working existance be defined through misery?

If folks want to split hairs about who should get all the fish, remember there's plenty of people who can't or don't fish that have just as much of a "right" to those as any other US citizen. Many of those folks like to eat fish and will buy them at a market. It's interesting that there's a lot of statements that suggest that comm's are taking all of the resources for themselves, but by creating a rec only fishery, aren't the rec's doing the same? And if you think that getting rid of comm fishing will end overharvesting of Stripers, just look at the illegal take in all states. If there's a market for it, there will be people providing it, regardless of legality. Best thing about the commecial fishery is that it allows for a legal, recordable take of fish. Right now it's the only accurate means of recording fish mortality that we have.

I'm far from thinking that we should fish for them until the ocean is empty, and I'm rec fishing 90% of the time I'm on the water, so I'm obviously concerned about the stocks. If a reduced take helps sustain the resource for everyone, I'd participate in that. I just don't agree with the suggestion that commercial fishing should end completely. Nor do I agree that comm's don't love the experience of fishing just as much as anyone else.

Woe is me! A plague of Franklinsteins has descended upon us. They grow thick as the flies on a eel fisherman's toothbrush and multiply like machinists around a jelly doughnut. Quick, we must sprinkle canal water in their reservoir and offer prayers to St Gadabout lest they breed like seals and leave nothing for us honest plugfishermen to seek.

LOL!

And they descend so because of habitat destruction. The once pristine forests and trees in which they used to dwell have been devastated. Their forefather's lands raped and pillaged in order to create millions of wooden devils with six to nine sets of sharp, angry teeth.

Actually I thought they cut all those trees down to build golf courses.....but that's a different story.

hey I'm from Franklin, be nice. All I got from this long thread was eye strain a headache and the realization that most people can't agree on anything. Were doomed.:uhuh:


All I got is that there's too many people who want stripers and that there's not enough of them to go around.

Maybe we need a commercial season for people. :smash:

60" minimum, six per day. No closed season. What'll we do with them, though? They don't taste as good as fish...

It's interesting that there's a lot of statements that suggest that comm's are taking all of the resources for themselves, but by creating a rec only fishery, aren't the rec's doing the same? .

NO!! not at all because as you say: "
" I'm rec fishing 90% of the time I'm on the water" How can it be a resource grab when you will still be fishing for them?

There will be no loss of interest among SB die hards and you will still be doing what you love. The problem with R&R SB fishing is There a lot of illegal activity going on by this particular user group and the fish is pressured as a result. Enforcement is a joke and we all know that.

We could always feed them to the criminally insane, I suppose...

NO!! not at all because as you say: "
" I'm rec fishing 90% of the time I'm on the water" How can it be a resource grab when you will still be fishing for them?

There will be no loss of interest among SB die hards and you will still be doing what you love. The problem with R&R SB fishing is There a lot of illegal activity going on by this particular user group and the fish is pressured as a result. Enforcement is a joke and we all know that.

Well it would be a resource grab for me. I'm not going to take sides as far as rec vs. comm, as I do both. How about the people who don't or can't fish, yet would still like to be able to eat one? There are still PLENTY of them, the commercial and the black market you're talking about proves it. If you want to say you have to be a fisherman to be able to eat fish, that's fine with me as long as you're okay with having to hunt or farm whatever else you'd like to eat as well.

In reply to the gentleman who said its just a fish! He said it all. To the commercials its just money pure and simple to the rest of us who dont sell our catch its a way of life. I have spent the best parts of my life fishing for bass. I live where I live to fish I work the job I have to be able to fish often and hard. Beside my family bass fishing is the best part of my life. To you it is just a fish but to me it is a part of my soul. I know it sounds hokey or corney but it is the truth. Commercials by definition are in it for the money. Remember if it is a million dollar yankee first baseman or a commercial fisherman when they say its not the money you know dammmed well it is. I know this is only a limited example but I know commercials who kill as many bass as possible and then fish scup with traps rather than catch a bass they cant sell. What a sportsman! Yes you do it for the money and nothing else. But dont feel too bad the various individuals who make policy in regard to the resource dont care about its long term viability either.

You are wrong! I bass fish May through November, without exception. I release far more fish than I kill. I'll spend hours or days just finding bait. I am sleepless, like a kid at christmas, almost every night before I fish. Does that sound like just money. I'm here typing my thoughts. Do you think a comm in it just for the money gives 2 bits about any of this, particularly on this forum? None-the-less a bass is a fish. No more revered to me than a tautog, fluke, tuna, seabass, etc. I appreciate them all, hold none as holy. Art

.....and......to all you plug nuts out there......going back almost 30 years .I have in varied quanities....original Danny Plugs(both surface-all sizes & deep divers-large) crafted by the master Danny P in critical colors..along with original Gag Grabbers needles-some screw eyed hooks-others thru wire(pink, lime & olive green& black)including the shorter models & a sprinkling of his mini models-some jointed ones..and first generation Super Strikes needles........most new in original packages.....not to mention several Boones.........and boxes of "used' plugs of the above that caught many stripers...many of them sold......and doing so...enjoyed the activity bass fishing second to none..........

Now..I hope I have everyones attention........
.........
..............."Called striped bass, striper, rockfish, bass or just plain fish. Stripers They are colorful, spirited, majestic, worshipped, eaten and sold. Fished pursued by commercial interests ranging from sport fishing magazine publishers to trap fisherman, pursued in earnest by charter/guide operations, by recreation anglers ranging from executives to vagrants lucky enough to possess a fishing rod and a few plugs.

Stripers. Totally adapted be eons of evolution and natural selection to effectively swim in surf, estuary, river, coastal pond, bay, sound, and ocean.

Striper. Prestigous, honored, loved."

Striper. Delicious, nutritious, a commodity and source of cash.

Striper. Providing pleasure to pursuing them from the surf, shore or upon the waters.................."

.......all users groups are intertwined with the many values the striped bass provides........

share the resource.......................................... .................................................. ......................protect our continued access to our favorite fish..............

well put. I've been watchin this thread for a couple days now an about everything has been mentioned. Fact is the number of stripers is on a serious decline. So wether an commercial or a sportfisherman we all need to back away from the trough an look what needs to be done for the fish, Not who gets what quota,who's at fault or to blame. we need to pull our heads out of our perspective posteriors an pressure the poleticians to slow things down before we are back in the 70,s again.Like my old freind Bob Pond used to preach. Only we can fix what we break. Greed an selfishness do nothing but hurt us all. Nice thing to help PETA with it's devide an conquer tactics. Damn are we dumb sometimes.
I love spending a night out with my secon wife a large female striped bass. Love sharing it with freinds also. Same as you commercial guys do when not chasing stripers for that new motor or SUV or those sportfishermen that spend hrs playin the blame game, We all love and enjoy fishing wether it be Striper or trout fishing so lets all do a bit to fix things before it get too far gone to fix, my thought Ron

.....and......to all you plug nuts out there......going back almost 30 years .I have in varied quanities....original Danny Plugs(both surface-all sizes & deep divers-large) crafted by the master Danny P in critical colors.........and first generation Super Strikes needles........most new in original packages...........and boxes of "used' plugs of the above ....


NOW we're talking something important! Are those superstrike needles wood? :heybaby:

As an aside, this thread http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/plug-building-got-wood/46271-pichney-interview.html has a link to a PDF where Coleman interviewed Pichney and they discuss the same issues that have arisen on this thread. Good read. History repeats.

60" minimum, six per day. No closed season. What'll we do with them, though? They don't taste as good as fish...

In Numbskull's case we could simply tag him and release him back into the wild...as a threatened species he might eventually need legislative protection and perhaps, institutional encampment. Of course he would still be allowed to participate in on line fishing forums, albeit for a few supervised moments once per month.

In Numbskull's case we could simply tag him and release him back into the wild...as a threatened species he might eventually need legislative protection and perhaps, institutional encampment. Of course he would still be allowed to participate in on line fishing forums, albeit for a few supervised moments once per month.:rotf2:

Nice to have a brother to laugh at your jokes.

How about the people who don't or can't fish, yet would still like to be able to eat one?

That's why they have canned tuna.

Nice to have a brother to laugh at your jokes.

He's got a boat, too.

In Numbskull's case we could simply tag him and release him back into the wild....

And just where would you find a plug to do that? Eels ain't gonna do it :rude:

Trapperpierre is good people...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

As an aside, this thread http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/plug-building-got-wood/46271-pichney-interview.html has a link to a PDF where Coleman interviewed Pichney and they discuss the same issues that have arisen on this thread. Good read. History repeats.

I noticed there's an advertisement in there for eels at .70 per pound too...:alright:

I noticed there's an advertisement in there for eels at .70 per pound too...:alright:

Heathen

NOW we're talking something important! Are those superstrike needles wood? :heybaby:

As an aside, this thread http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/plug-building-got-wood/46271-pichney-interview.html has a link to a PDF where Coleman interviewed Pichney and they discuss the same issues that have arisen on this thread. Good read. History repeats.
This winter one of the things I want to do is find the article from the fisherman around the same time as the pichney one that expresses regrets over livelining bunker and mowing off the bass population.
Of course then we can debate if the collapse of the striped bass population was due to overfishing or a natural cycle. Was the collapse at the time of the closing of the Island striped bass clubs (1900) also due to recreational overfishing, commercial overfishing or just a natural population change to prevent disease and starvation from overpopulation?
I can't count creatures living under the ocean but we can and have quantified rabbit, partridge and other small animal populations and see that they go in population cycles depending on a number of factors. Hunting animals can reduce population collapses due to overpopulation. Think about it, if you have enough food for 1000 animals to survive, how many survive if you put 2000 in the same space. It's not 1000.
The only thing I am sure of is that I do not know the answer, and I do not think there is a simple one.

but today you would have to be a fool to risk boat, truck, fines, etc. to sell to other than a legit. buyer or to sell fish without a permit....

Nobody accused anybody here. Calm down.

And there must be a lot of fools around.... :rotf2:

don't be hatin' on franklin :buds: