Here are your exact posts on this thread, your exact words ("exact" means no twisting) describing the withdrawal...

"Your an idiot Jim if you think evacuating service members or civilians from a war, that SHOULD never have been extended beyond the mission it started on, is anything but messy."

"what Jim are you so stupid to think that in evacuation from a war zone, in a tribal Muslim country, it would go as promised"

So in your own words, (1) you'd have to be an idiot to fail to foresee that it would get messy. And (2) you'd have to be stupid to think things would go according to plan.

So what was Biden's strategy to deal with things when they got messy? What was the alternative plan to deal with the inevitable (your words) mess?

Or am I twisting your words, somehow?

See, I think you don't know the difference between my "twisting" your words, and my "using your words to club you like a baby seal".

Because according to your two statements there, the only conclusion is that Biden is stupid and an idiot. Using your barometer, your standards. Because there was no plan other than to hope things stayed stable at Kabul.

Try. Making. That. Wrong.
Easy to do just read your supposed quote vs my exact words, I called you the idiot, never implied anything other than a competent commander would understand getting out of a war, especially in that part of the world would be messy. Good twist of the words to suit your narrative, try harder I’m pretty sure your the only one getting that from my original post.:hf1:

Easy to do just read your supposed quote vs my exact words, I called you the idiot, never implied anything other than a competent commander would understand getting out of a war, especially in that part of the world would be messy. Good twist of the words to suit your narrative, try harder I’m pretty sure your the only one getting that from my original post.:hf1:

my "supposed" quote? Those aren't your exact words?

OK, I'm an idiot for not predicting that things would go south. But you don't criticize Biden for not anticipating things going south.

"a competent commander would understand getting out of a war, especially in that part of the world would be messy."

Obviously, Biden didn't expect it would be messy. Because there was no plan to deal with the mess. He sent those 20 year old privates into a perfectly designed kill zone for a suicide bomber. What could be an easier target for a suicide bomber?

It's not. Biden was saying that they had a stronger army but because of a lack of PR essentially some were concerned they weren't doing as well.

Biden's exact words from his call to the president of Afghanistan.

"things are not going well in terms of the fight against the Taliban,"

https://www.reuters.com/world/exclusive-call-before-afghan-collapse-biden-pressed-ghani-change-perception-2021-08-31/

WTF are you talking about? The Taliban had better PR than the Afghan military, you think that’s what the problem was?

as GS said, and stupid idiot ( except Biden) should have known it would get messy, should have known it would t go according to plan. But we had no way of dealing with that, because that’s what happens when your president is a 78 year old Alzheimer’s patient and your Pentagon leadership is too busy worrying about diversity to have time to plan for contingencies in the battlefield.

No plan?
Now the US military doesn't plan?

‘In a country with millions of people and cars going everywhere, the enemy is going to get a car bomb out there once in awhile.’

https://lieber.westpoint.edu/afghanistan-noncombatant-evacuation-operations/

https://www.jcs.mil/Doctrine/DOCNET/JP-3-68-Noncombatant-Evacuation-Operations/

https://news.usni.org/2021/08/17/afghanistan-exit-latest-in-long-history-of-u-s-noncombatant-evacuation-missions

In much of the call, Biden focused on what he called the Afghan government’s “perception” problem. “I need not tell you the perception around the world and in parts of Afghanistan, I believe, is that things are not going well in terms of the fight against the Taliban,” Biden said. “And there is a need, whether it is true or not, there is a need to project a different picture.”

Biden told Ghani that if Afghanistan’s prominent political figures were to give a press conference together, backing a new military strategy, “that will change perception, and that will change an awful lot I think.”

The American leader’s words indicated he didn’t anticipate the massive insurrection and collapse to come 23 days later. “We are going to continue to fight hard, diplomatically, politically, economically, to make sure your government not only survives, but is sustained and grows,” said Biden.

SECOND CALL WITH TOP STAFF

In a follow-up call later that day that did not include the U.S. president, Biden’s National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, General Mark Milley and U.S. Central Command commander General Frank McKenzie spoke to Ghani. Reuters also obtained a transcript of that call.

In this call, too, an area of focus was the global perception of events on the ground in Afghanistan. Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told Ghani “the perception in the United States, in Europe and the media sort of thing is a narrative of Taliban momentum, and a narrative of Taliban victory. And we need to collectively demonstrate and try to turn that perception, that narrative around.”

“I do not believe time is our friend here. We need to move quickly,” McKenzie added.

Biden's exact words from his call to the president of Afghanistan.

"WTF are you talking about stupid idiot."

Understand?

Jim I guess Biden should just say it was a perfect phone call..

Then maybe you’ll believe him . It worked last time?
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No plan?
Now the US military doesn't plan?

‘In a country with millions of people and cars going everywhere, the enemy is going to get a car bomb out there once in awhile.’

https://lieber.westpoint.edu/afghanistan-noncombatant-evacuation-operations/

https://www.jcs.mil/Doctrine/DOCNET/JP-3-68-Noncombatant-Evacuation-Operations/

https://news.usni.org/2021/08/17/afghanistan-exit-latest-in-long-history-of-u-s-noncombatant-evacuation-missions

This has already been covered. but Jim thinks Biden has Trumps sharpie and made the plan. He needs to look up a thing called Commanders intent. To even begin to understand military planning .. but as I have said imaginary out comes work better for Republicans and conservatives . They can disregard Facts and Truths easier …

400k Americans dead from COVID under Trump no screams from the Maga universe about blood on his hands and he should resign?

But 13 marines die getting 120 thousand people out of harms way and their outraged ?

And now many of the unvaccinated are dying because the were sold another lie by their leaders .. inspired by the imaginary
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Biden's exact words from his call to the president of Afghanistan.

"things are not going well in terms of the fight against the Taliban,"

https://www.reuters.com/world/exclusive-call-before-afghan-collapse-biden-pressed-ghani-change-perception-2021-08-31/

WTF are you talking about? The Taliban had better PR than the Afghan military, you think that’s what the problem was?

as GS said, and stupid idiot ( except Biden) should have known it would get messy, should have known it would t go according to plan. But we had no way of dealing with that, because that’s what happens when your president is a 78 year old Alzheimer’s patient and your Pentagon leadership is too busy worrying about diversity to have time to plan for contingencies in the battlefield.

I swear you can’t get past your parties talking points, knowing getting out of a 20 year war to honor an agreement by the previous administration and your own campaign promise is likely to get messy and trying to plan for completely unforeseen circumstances (like the Afghans rolling over and everyone else giving the Talaban a free pass) is another thing. Come on Jim if you think Trump could have done better well you really are an idiot, getting out that many people with so little loss of life, takes belief and confidence in your advisors and military leaders; Trump believed he was smarter than them all. Spin my comments any way you like, war is messy, getting out of one is messier, but if you think orange man could do better, get him elected if he runs and we can watch him burn democracy down.

Jim I guess Biden should just say it was a perfect phone call..

Then maybe you’ll believe him . It worked last time?
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i don’t know what you’re saying. but during that call, biden said that the fighting with the taliban wasnt going well. but he told america it was all ok.
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I swear you can’t get past your parties talking points, knowing getting out of a 20 year war to honor an agreement by the previous administration and your own campaign promise is likely to get messy and trying to plan for completely unforeseen circumstances (like the Afghans rolling over and everyone else giving the Talaban a free pass) is another thing. Come on Jim if you think Trump could have done better well you really are an idiot, getting out that many people with so little loss of life, takes belief and confidence in your advisors and military leaders; Trump believed he was smarter than them all. Spin my comments any way you like, war is messy, getting out of one is messier, but if you think orange man could do better, get him elected if he runs and we can watch him burn democracy down.

i was pro gay marriage 20 years ago, anti death penalty, pro gun control’. and i hated trump. want to claim again that i’m the one who can’t think for himself?

Seth Moultin is a progressive, liberal
democrat congressman from Mass who said Biden’s execution was a “F—-i g disaster and avoidable.”. is he just a fox news puppet?

just because i’m destroying you here, doesn’t mean i’m a lemming.
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This has already been covered. but Jim thinks Biden has Trumps sharpie and made the plan. He needs to look up a thing called Commanders intent. To even begin to understand military planning .. but as I have said imaginary out comes work better for Republicans and conservatives . They can disregard Facts and Truths easier …

400k Americans dead from COVID under Trump no screams from the Maga universe about blood on his hands and he should resign?

But 13 marines die getting 120 thousand people out of harms way and their outraged ?

And now many of the unvaccinated are dying because the were sold another lie by their leaders .. inspired by the imaginary
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i know Biden didn’t craft the plan, he couldn’t draw a circle in a piece of paper. but the buck stops with him. you disagree?

so i guess your logos is that only republicans presidents are responsible for bad results on their watch.
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I swear you can’t get past your parties talking points

.

did you really just write that? :laugha:

When a CIA operation captured Baradar on Obama's watch, I remember Fox & Friends whining that he wasn't immediately executed.

Trump & Pompeo let him out, had him flown to Qatar on a G5 and inked the US withdrawal deal with a direct call with Trump. Now he runs Afghanistan. CRICKETS from the lemming
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i know Biden didn’t craft the plan, he couldn’t draw a circle in a piece of paper. but the buck stops with him. you disagree?

so i guess your logos is that only republicans presidents are responsible for bad results on their watch.
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Yes Jim the POTUS is responsible but I find it odd that Republicans now want to Hold Biden to a standard they wouldn’t even hold Trump to.. I know I used the term capt of the ship a few time..
But I am objective enough to understand Biden didn’t kill those marines their leadership didn’t kill those marines a suicide bomber killed those marines , and I understand a mass casualties event like that is horrific, for the Nation and their families, but it’s no less painful 1 at a time but Americans don’t see or hear about those sacrifices.. but this faux outrage about Biden got blood on his hand is just classic outrage machine ..


Yet The right won’t call them cowards ! (Afghan army )they are the reason the withdrawal turned into what we saw , and the reason why the Taliban has all that nice equipment.. but it’s easier for MAGA and Republicans to blame Biden than actually looking at the big picture and blame the Afghan army who many Americans lost their live defending them and Training them to fight .. we didn’t bail on Afghans Afghans bailed themselves. And now the reap what the sow..

so now the right has moved on to the fear mongers they are ! that Biden’s bring in terrorist ! their all un vetted

2 months ago it was people crossing the border was the cause of the Covid 19 spikes in the country not the unvaccinated

Or passing laws with citizens enforcing Aka law suits. So much for tort reform.

Let’s see what’s the next outrage is ? another electrical grid failure in a red State suddenly becomes the governments fault
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i don’t know what you’re saying. but during that call, biden said that the fighting with the taliban wasnt going well. but he told america it was all ok.
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Is that they only part you read ? Where the rest of the conversation?

Like I said you’re unable or unwilling to see the big picture or in this case the entirety of the phone call.. because as we know context means a lot ..

Here an idea lets just do what was done all the time here when Trump said something and what he said was always defended claiming it was just hyperbole .
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i know Biden didn’t craft the plan, he couldn’t draw a circle in a piece of paper. but the buck stops with him. you disagree?

so i guess your logos is that only republicans presidents are responsible for bad results on their watch.
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Jim your right, nobody draws circles or hurricane path lines like Trump did and if there is a disaster after, he was always there to throw you paper towels.
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Navy Declares 5 Missing Sailors Dead After Helicopter Crash

Another tragic event in our military and Families losing love ones while involved in service to their country .. where are the calls for Biden to resign or stating he has blood on his Hands ??? will they be called by Hannity for his nightly outrage so he can exploit their Grief? Because this is an accident its different or just not politically beneficial

we'll see

Speaking to the BBC's Andrew Marr show on Sunday, Gen Sir Nick was asked how the predictions had been wrong.
"I think everybody got it wrong is the straight answer," he said. "Even the Taliban didn't expect things to change as quickly as they did.
"I don't think we realised quite what the Taliban were up to. They weren't really fighting for the cities they eventually captured, they were negotiating for them. And I think you'll find a lot of money changed hands as they managed to buy off those who might have fought for them."
The chief of defence staff added: "I don't think what anybody predicted was how fragile that Afghan government was and how fragile it was in relation to the command of its armed forces."

I doubt the Brits are trying to cover for Biden ..
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Speaking to the BBC's Andrew Marr show on Sunday, Gen Sir Nick was asked how the predictions had been wrong.
"I think everybody got it wrong is the straight answer," he said. "Even the Taliban didn't expect things to change as quickly as they did.
"I don't think we realised quite what the Taliban were up to. They weren't really fighting for the cities they eventually captured, they were negotiating for them. And I think you'll find a lot of money changed hands as they managed to buy off those who might have fought for them."
The chief of defence staff added: "I don't think what anybody predicted was how fragile that Afghan government was and how fragile it was in relation to the command of its armed forces."

I doubt the Brits are trying to cover for Biden ..
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read the transcript of what biden said on july 23. “it’s not going well.”. I’ll take what biden said over what a Brit said who we’ve never heard of.

and GS said only a “stupid idiot” would expect this withdrawal to not get messy. only a “stupid idiot” would think it would
go according to plan. doesn’t that mean you have a backup plan?

For every person you quote to support your side, i can quote someone to support my side.

Massachusetts congressman Seth Moulton is a very liberal democrat from Mass, and he said it was a “fu—-ng disaster” and that it was “preventable.”

is he lying for political
reasons? he also did 4 tours with the marines

you’re not winning this, you don’t have the facts or common sense in your side. i’m not saying you can predict everything. but you have to have some contingencies in place, and they didn’t. 13?americann kids died, partly as a result of that. his approval numbers suggest you’re in the minority.
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Jim your right, nobody draws circles or hurricane path lines like Trump did and if there is a disaster after, he was always there to throw you paper towels.
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here’s the difference between us. I criticized trump all the time. you’re bending over backwards here to protect biden.

here’s a fact for you. every 4 years, during a presidential election year, Gallup does a poll, asking americans if they’re better off today than they were 4 years ago. Gallup did this poll in early 2020, during the pandemic, and a record number of americans said they were better off than 4 years ago. never before had more americans say they were better off. never in the history of that poll. and that was during a pandemic.

America didn’t like trumps behavior, but they liked his policies. this is why the left is absolutely terrified of Desantis. he’s Trump without the disgusting behavior, and that’s going to be very tough to beat. having every rv station except one in your pocket helps obviously.
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did you really just write that? :laugha:

he knows he can’t respond to what i’m saying, so he tries to paint me as sean hannity, when he’s the blind partisan here. i give biden credit for getting so many out before it went really bad. that’s not a fox news talking point.

it’s easier for him to lie than admit i have a point, when i say the administration badly bungled the last few days. they’re all exactly the same. there’s no difference between any of them. spence, wdmso, pete, GS, do they ever disagree on anything, ever? even once?
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Navy Declares 5 Missing Sailors Dead After Helicopter Crash

Another tragic event in our military and Families losing love ones while involved in service to their country .. where are the calls for Biden to resign or stating he has blood on his Hands ??? will they be called by Hannity for his nightly outrage so he can exploit their Grief? Because this is an accident its different or just not politically beneficial

we'll see

Because this is an accident its different

see, you managed to figure that all on your own...sort of

he knows he can’t respond to what i’m saying, so he tries to paint me as sean hannity, when he’s the blind partisan here.
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Please don’t start selling pillows.

Please don’t start selling pillows.

i thought David Hoag was selling your pillows.

Again, i’m pro gay marriage and pro gun control and anti death penalty.

i’ve asked you 50 times, to please name some big issues, on which you completely disagree with liberals?

which one of us is the the thoughtless ideologue? who is the partisan zealot? On what basis is it not you?
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Because this is an accident its different

see, you managed to figure that all on your own...sort of

comparing a random accident, to 13 deaths that were at least partly a result of having no plan to deal with chaos.

none of them can comment on why biden said on July 13, “it’s not going well.”.
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iwhich one of us is the the thoughtless ideologue? who is the partisan zealot? On what basis is it not you?
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Certianly not me, I don’t even associate as a liberal.

Because this is an accident its different

see, you managed to figure that all on your own...sort of

Are they? ask the parents and families if they really are different..

But you already know the Answer ...

Accidents acceptable Killed in a combat operation outrageous

Classic

comparing a random accident, to 13 deaths that were at least partly a result of having no plan to deal with chaos.

none of them can comment on why biden said on July 13, “it’s not going well.”.
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Jim as you've done in the past. you have been presented with all that Facts and you just know better .. than the Military who made and executed the plan...

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whos trying to win anything I am not curling up in a ball because 13 marines got killed in a suicide attack .. I am not the partisans Hack yelling Biden has blood on his Hands nor I am I comparing you to Hannity... its just disgusting how Conservatives use the Military to push their usual political nonsense.. trust me from the moment that operation started the Right was praying for something Bad to happen on the ground! don't be fooled. and when it did, they pounced .. and if you cant or wont see that. that's on you.. if you cant see the timeline and how even other Countries acknowledge things changed and they also got caught with their pants down.. nothing is perfect or goes 100% to plan

I dont really care what Molton thinks or others like him from the comfort of their offices and arm chairs ... If Americans don't like the price. of our troops in places like afghanistan or Iraq .. don't send them ! there no reset button they all want the freedom without the loss of life its dont work that way.. I guess " freedom isn't free" it only for t shirts or FB memes ..

Because I had an conversation with my Wife. Prior to Going to Iraq as in Infantry Plt SGT leaving her and with our 2 kids 11 and 10 And said if something happens (I get killed )I do not want anyone blaming Bush or the Military or the government !

Because I signed on the dotted line . And I was fulfilling my obligations .

I get upset when our service members die and 1 is always to many but I am realistic in my expectations due to my experiences

And get more upset when political hakes talking heads or actual elected officials use these Tragedies to advance their political agendas
regardless of Party ..

if people do not think the deaths of those Marines weigh on the POTUS and he hasn't or the planners have not asked what could we have done better .. your just deep down a partisan rabbit hole

Don’t argue common sense from real life experience Wayne, once Jim gets his needle stuck there is no going back.

Don’t argue common sense from real life experience Wayne, once Jim gets his needle stuck there is no going back.

except i’ve changed my mind all the time. other than that, good point.

GS, you’re desperately trying to make me out to be a thoughtless partisan hack. i have shown i think for myself. it’s your side who are one identical monolithic group.
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Jim as you've done in the past. you have been presented with all that Facts and you just know better .. than the Military who made and executed the plan...

please explain what biden meant, when back in july, he said “it’s not going well.”
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Certianly not me, I don’t even associate as a liberal.

then for the 51st time, please tell us which big issues, you think liberals are 100% wrong on. if there are t any, that means you’re the exact mirror image of sean hannity, which is obviously exactly what you are.

make me wrong. tell me which issues you agree with conservatives in. tell us which right wing presidents you voted for ( i voted for bill clinton twice, and to this day i think he was a pretty good potus).

All you have to do, is pick one major issue.
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This war cost US $2 trillion and according to cost of war project at Brown university, the cost of interest on Afghan war debt will go up to $6.5 trillion by 2050.
In conclusion: a country got destroyed, people died, central bank and military -industrial complex made trillions.
Some people mad that it’s over, wonder why?
They would gladly have killed another 2500 of our troops for a few billion in profits, Tweety was actually sort of honest about that with his Saudi deal, never mind that the only people involved in 9/11 were Saudis
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whos trying to win anything I am not curling up in a ball because 13 marines got killed in a suicide attack .. I am not the partisans Hack yelling Biden has blood on his Hands nor I am I comparing you to Hannity... its just disgusting how Conservatives use the Military to push their usual political nonsense.. trust me from the moment that operation started the Right was praying for something Bad to happen on the ground! don't be fooled. and when it did, they pounced .. and if you cant or wont see that. that's on you.. if you cant see the timeline and how even other Countries acknowledge things changed and they also got caught with their pants down.. nothing is perfect or goes 100% to plan

I dont really care what Molton thinks or others like him from the comfort of their offices and arm chairs ... If Americans don't like the price. of our troops in places like afghanistan or Iraq .. don't send them ! there no reset button they all want the freedom without the loss of life its dont work that way.. I guess " freedom isn't free" it only for t shirts or FB memes ..

Because I had an conversation with my Wife. Prior to Going to Iraq as in Infantry Plt SGT leaving her and with our 2 kids 11 and 10 And said if something happens (I get killed )I do not want anyone blaming Bush or the Military or the government !

Because I signed on the dotted line . And I was fulfilling my obligations .

I get upset when our service members die and 1 is always to many but I am realistic in my expectations due to my experiences

And get more upset when political hakes talking heads or actual elected officials use these Tragedies to advance their political agendas
regardless of Party ..

if people do not think the deaths of those Marines weigh on the POTUS and he hasn't or the planners have not asked what could we have done better .. your just deep down a partisan rabbit hole

i’m not curling up in a ball either. but you’re ignoring the fact that biden admitted that it wasn’t going well, back in july.

i’m part of the right and i wasn’t praying for anything bad. you’re making stupid stereotypes and assumptions. the right is using this for sure, as i said, exactly as the left uses it when a white cop shoots a block person. tell me the left doesn’t use those instances for political gain?

that the right is using it, doesn’t mean biden doesn’t deserve some of the criticism. his approval ratings are in the toilet among independents right now. why is that? most of them dont watch fox news, so they are reaching their conclusions on their own.
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I dont really care what Molton thinks or others like him from the comfort of their offices and arm chairs ...

Molton did 4 tours to the middle
east with the Marines. so would
you care to reconsider?

You care about what everyone thinks who agrees with you, and dismiss and insult everyone who disagrees with you. you insult them, because you can’t make them
wrong.
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I read 14,237 MAGA posts about the 13 US service members killed in Afghanistan. Not one about the 5 Navy sailors who died yesterday. It’s a shame some people feel the need to use some of these tragic deaths for political purposes, while ignoring others.
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I read 14,237 MAGA posts about

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:screwy::rotflmao:

Irony is deader than a right wing talk radio host.
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then for the 51st time, please tell us which big issues, you think liberals are 100% wrong on. if there are t any, that means you’re the exact mirror image of sean hannity, which is obviously exactly what you are.

make me wrong. tell me which issues you agree with conservatives in. tell us which right wing presidents you voted for ( i voted for bill clinton twice, and to this day i think he was a pretty good potus).

All you have to do, is pick one major issue.
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Well personally getting stuck in the conservative playbook in today’s US ever changing mixed ethnicity, the yearly onslaught of global viruses, the global issues of climate change and the lessons learned by our attempts to insert our Democratic ways globally, means they are just not thinking down the road at all. The irony is look at how many of these Trump and the current Republican leaders don’t adhere to.

An aversion to rapid change; a belief that tradition and prevailing social norms often contain within them handed-down wisdom; and mistrust of attempts to remake society so that it conforms to an abstract account of what would be just or efficient.

A desire to preserve the political philosophy and rules of government articulated in the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution.

A belief that it is imperative to preserve traditional morality, as it is articulated in the Bible, through cultural norms.

A belief that it is imperative to preserve traditional morality, as it is articulated in the Bible, using cultural norms and the power of the state.

An embrace of free-market capitalism, and a belief in the legitimacy of market outcomes.

A belief that America is an exceptional nation, a shining city on a hill, whose rightful role is leader of the free world.

A belief that America should export its brand of democracy through force of arms.

The conviction that government should undertake, on behalf of the American polity, grand projects that advance our “national greatness” and ennoble our characters.

An embrace of localism, community and family ties, human scale, and a responsibility to the future.

A belief that America shouldn’t intervene in the affairs of other nations except to defend ourselves from aggression and enforce contracts and treaties.

A desire to return to the way things once were.

Affinity for, identification with, or embrace of Red America’s various cultural cues. (For example, gun ownership, a preference for single-family homes oriented around highways rather than urban enclaves organized around public transit, embrace of country music, disdain for arugula and fancy mustard, etc.)

Disdain for American liberalism, multiculturalism, identity politics, affirmative action, welfare, European-style social policies, and the left and its ideas generally.

A desire to be left alone by government, often coupled with a belief that being left alone is a natural right.

A principled belief in federalism.

The belief that taxes should be lower and government smaller.

The belief that the national debt and deficits put America in peril.

The belief that whenever possible, government budgets should be balanced.

Consciousness of the fallibility of man, and an awareness of the values of skepticism, doubt, and humility.

Realism in foreign policy.

Non-interventionism in foreign policy.

Molton did 4 tours to the middle
east with the Marines. so would
you care to reconsider?

You care about what everyone thinks who agrees with you, and dismiss and insult everyone who disagrees with you. you insult them, because you can’t make them
wrong.
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Yes Jim , and if molten was on that air field he would have done what the commanders did . Carried out the mission .. he wasn’t but he didn’t blame Biden did for the death of those marines and no one is claiming it went according to plan. The plan changed … anything thing Else is Monday morning quarterbacking. Even if he did 4 tours no as a general
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Well personally.........



^^ wow...did you come up with all of that out of your very own little brain?

Yes Jim , and if molten was on that air field he would have done what the commanders did . Carried out the mission .. he wasn’t but he didn’t blame Biden did for the death of those marines and no one is claiming it went according to plan. The plan changed … anything thing Else is Monday morning quarterbacking. Even if he did 4 tours no as a general
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that's interesting....I know it only matters when liberals get a bunch of experts and formers to demand stuff..but just for the record

i’m not curling up in a ball either. but you’re ignoring the fact that biden admitted that it wasn’t going well, back in july.

i’m part of the right and i wasn’t praying for anything bad. you’re making stupid stereotypes and assumptions. the right is using this for sure, as i said, exactly as the left uses it when a white cop shoots a block person. tell me the left doesn’t use those instances for political gain?

that the right is using it, doesn’t mean biden doesn’t deserve some of the criticism. his approval ratings are in the toilet among independents right now. why is that? most of them dont watch fox news, so they are reaching their conclusions on their own.
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Jim Biden is getting a ton of criticism from many different people CNN is all over him as are fox and Newmax

But the latter networks are parading these dead marines around hero’s and martyrs calling Biden a murder

Tammy Bruce exposes Biden presidency failures: His lies ‘get people murdered’ wanting to dismantle capitalism, demonizing our police, indoctrinating school children – it's all the fruit of the same poisonous leftist tree.

These are the type of Republicans or the right that I am referring to taking what happened in Afghanistan and just spewing this nonsense as if we never had a Republican POTUS

Even Graham has jumped on the we’re going back to Afghanistan to fight the califate Aka evil Islam.. why because it works on their scared voters who are convinced they are threatened by black brown liberals Muslim legal illegals immigrants.. forgot now election are rigged against them.. the old Republicans are dead or called Rinos

Where do you fall?

Ps a cop killing an unarmed black or minority is not the same as people being killed by an suicide bomber

Like antifa and BLM protest and riots are not the same as Jan 6th
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tell me the left doesn’t use those instances for political gain?


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pretty sure this has never happened...ever....definitely not! :laugha:

Like antifa and BLM protest and riots are not the same as Jan 6th


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what is the difference between trying to burn down a federal courthouse with police and federal officers inside and... trespassing in the Capitol?

just curious?

that's interesting....I know it only matters when liberals get a bunch of experts and formers to demand stuff..but just for the record


Funny I saw that posted by conservatives all ready go figure ,

Do you have a point? Or now are conservatives believing generals only when they agree with them Out of those Generals how many were in Afghanistan in the 20 years and what roll did they play creating the mess call Afghanistan

Took all of 1 google search to find similar open letters

More than 200 retired generals, admirals endorse Biden, including some who served under Trump

Dozens of Retired Generals, Admirals Sign Letter Backing Trump for Reelection
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Funny I saw that posted by conservatives all ready go figure ,

Do you have a point? Or now are conservatives believing generals only when they agree with them Out of those Generals how many were in Afghanistan in the 20 years and what roll did they play creating the mess call Afghanistan

Took all of 1 google search to find similar open letters

More than 200 retired generals, admirals endorse Biden, including some who served under Trump

Dozens of Retired Generals, Admirals Sign Letter Backing Trump for Reelection
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if you read what I wrote I'm pretty sure I covered everything and I'm not surprised you and pete are closely monitoring conservative chatter on the internets....

keep up the good work! maybe you and pete could combine bunkers and be more effective as a team?

if you read what I wrote I'm pretty sure I covered everything and I'm not surprised you and pete are closely monitoring conservative chatter on the internets....

keep up the good work! maybe you and pete could combine bunkers and be more effective as a team?

It seems a Pete and I actually do some research on what’s being said to people on these none traditional news outlets it tends to be very eye opening, at what lengths these Republicans elected officials will lie and instigate their base to keep them well feed in their daily outrage


From today’s headline

400-Person Migrant Caravan Gathers in Mexico for Trek to US

1st comment Biden refuses to protect the American people from hordes of illegal immigrants. Biden is a traitor
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what is the difference between trying to burn down a federal courthouse with police and federal officers inside and... trespassing in the Capitol?

just curious?

If thats needs to be explained to you . clearly you support the attempt to over turn the election and support such seditious behavior.. did I miss anything?
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over turn the election


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explain to me exactly how this was going to occur....

If thats needs to be explained to you . clearly you support the attempt to over turn the election and support he such seditious behavior.. did I miss anything?
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there was no plot or thought to overturn the election, they were a bunch of anarchist cry babies who didn’t get the result they wanted, so they rioted. surprised you don’t recognize ice that tactic, it’s what your side does regularly, his might have been the first time in my lifetime tnat it was fine by republicans.

it was a riot, a pretty low-key riot compared to what lefties did all summer, in terms of carnage and property damage. lefties actually managed to secede from the nation for a short while, creating the short lived nation of Chaz.

i’m old enough to remember when liberals stormed the state capital
in Wisconsin because they didn’t like that scott walker was going to take political power away from labor unions. january 6 was a lot like that.

also, the one casualty that day was a woman shot to death who was completely unarmed, 5’2” tall, got no warning, shot to death for the crime of trespassing. and no one cares, because she was white, conservative, not a violent felon scumbag. if she was a non white violent felon scumbag, the left would
make her a martyr. because whe was white and conservative, the left says she got exactly what was coming to her. But Michael Brown was an innocent victim, <sniff> I’m tearing up at the thought.
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explain to me exactly how this was going to occur....

CNN said so, it must therefore be true.
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Well personally getting stuck in the conservative playbook in today’s US ever changing mixed ethnicity, the yearly onslaught of global viruses, the global issues of climate change and the lessons learned by our attempts to insert our Democratic ways globally, means they are just not thinking down the road at all. The irony is look at how many of these Trump and the current Republican leaders don’t adhere to.

An aversion to rapid change; a belief that tradition and prevailing social norms often contain within them handed-down wisdom; and mistrust of attempts to remake society so that it conforms to an abstract account of what would be just or efficient.

A desire to preserve the political philosophy and rules of government articulated in the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution.

A belief that it is imperative to preserve traditional morality, as it is articulated in the Bible, through cultural norms.

A belief that it is imperative to preserve traditional morality, as it is articulated in the Bible, using cultural norms and the power of the state.

An embrace of free-market capitalism, and a belief in the legitimacy of market outcomes.

A belief that America is an exceptional nation, a shining city on a hill, whose rightful role is leader of the free world.

A belief that America should export its brand of democracy through force of arms.

The conviction that government should undertake, on behalf of the American polity, grand projects that advance our “national greatness” and ennoble our characters.

An embrace of localism, community and family ties, human scale, and a responsibility to the future.

A belief that America shouldn’t intervene in the affairs of other nations except to defend ourselves from aggression and enforce contracts and treaties.

A desire to return to the way things once were.

Affinity for, identification with, or embrace of Red America’s various cultural cues. (For example, gun ownership, a preference for single-family homes oriented around highways rather than urban enclaves organized around public transit, embrace of country music, disdain for arugula and fancy mustard, etc.)

Disdain for American liberalism, multiculturalism, identity politics, affirmative action, welfare, European-style social policies, and the left and its ideas generally.

A desire to be left alone by government, often coupled with a belief that being left alone is a natural right.

A principled belief in federalism.

The belief that taxes should be lower and government smaller.

The belief that the national debt and deficits put America in peril.

The belief that whenever possible, government budgets should be balanced.

Consciousness of the fallibility of man, and an awareness of the values of skepticism, doubt, and humility.

Realism in foreign policy.

Non-interventionism in foreign policy.

that’s so stupid and fu—ed up, it’s hard to know where to begin.

you don’t think america is exceptional? we don’t stand out i. terms of what we’ve done for the world? can you tell me which country has done more?

i don’t want to adhere to moral
customs “because they’re in the bible.”. i want to adhere to moral
customs which have proven to work, and to avoid moral customs which have proven to be a disaster.

you’re saying it’s flawed to want to abide by the constitution? so any president should
be able to do whatever he wants?

still trying to figure out if you think trump and his fans are war mongers. trump is the opposite.

if you can point me to data which suggests that anything on than the nuclear family is far better for children, and that fatherless homes are a disaster for young children especially boys, all ears.

I’m conservative precisely because i respond to empirical
results. advocate for what has been shown to work, i advocate against that which has been shown to be a catastrophe.


why are americans fleeing blue states and moving to red states?
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then for the 51st time, please tell us which big issues, you think liberals are 100% wrong on. if there are t any, that means you’re the exact mirror image of sean hannity, which is obviously exactly what you are.

make me wrong. tell me which issues you agree with conservatives in. tell us which right wing presidents you voted for ( i voted for bill clinton twice, and to this day i think he was a pretty good potus).
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Like I’ve said 50 times, I don’t side with many far left positions, totally open borders, unrestricted access to abortion etc…

Voted for Bush 41 and would have likely voted for McCain had he not went off the deep end mid-campaign. The way the GOP is heading though I don’t foresee it happening anytime soon…Maybe of Romney was the nominee.

Like I’ve said 50 times, I don’t side with many far left positions, totally open borders, unrestricted access to abortion etc…

Voted for Bush 41 and would have likely voted for McCain had he not went off the deep end mid-campaign. The way the GOP is heading though I don’t foresee it happening anytime soon…Maybe of Romney was the nominee.

so you claim not to be liberal, but can’t name one single issue on which you’re not liberal. so what’s the difference between you and a liberal?

“I’m not liberal, i just happen to think they are correct on every single
issue.”

The way the gop is heading, right, right. imagine thinking that the nation might be well off if we acted a bit more like FL ( where people
and businesses are moving in huge numbers) and a bit less like CT, where people
and businesses are leaving in drives.

Why are people and businesses leaving blue states and going to red states.
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so you claim not to be liberal, but can’t name one single issue on which you’re not liberal. so what’s the difference between you and a liberal?

“I’m not liberal, i just happen to think they are correct on every single
issue.”

The way the gop is heading, right, right. imagine thinking that the nation might be well off if we acted a bit more like FL ( where people
and businesses are moving in huge numbers) and a bit less like CT, where people
and businesses are leaving in drives.

Why are people and businesses leaving blue states and going to red states.
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You’re obsessed with labels.

A huge reason for the population shift is simply an surge of retirees looking for sunshine.

You’re obsessed with labels.
could care less about labels. i just want to clarify which one of us had the ability to think for themselves, and which one is enslaved to one ideology, with which he is incapable of differing?

I differ with traditional conservative ideology on gay marriage, the death penalty, gun control.

Go ahead. Your turn. I had no trouble stating issues where i lean left. So unless you’re not only a liberal but a devout liberal, there must be some cornerstone liberal issues on which you side with conservatives?

You won’t name one, because there isn’t one. you agree with the left on every single major issue, and no one on this planet thinks you considered John McCain over Barack Obama.
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A huge reason for the population shift is simply an surge of retirees looking for sunshine.

right, right!!!! So why arent they moving to southern California? Please, please explain?
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You won’t name one, because there isn’t one. you agree with the left on every single major issue, and no one on this planet thinks you considered John McCain over Barack Obama.
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Peace through strength comes to mind but even that has limits.

As for McCain, I know I posted about my early support for him here at least once.

cno one on this planet thinks you considered John McCain over Barack Obama.
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I do.
But I was fishing with and chatting with Jeff a bunch back then. Block Island Jeff is more complicated than you think, especially since he was raised as a corn fed Iowa kid....

(Oh, and to play your game, I think the left is wrong on the death penalty, especially for first degree cases cases with DNA evidence/cop killed/kid killed, among other things)

Peace through strength comes to mind but even that has limits.

As for McCain, I know I posted about my early support for him here at least once.

ok, so by your own admission, and to the surprise of exactly no one, you conceded that there is t a meaningful issue in which you disagree with liberals. In terms of the issues, you are identical
to a pure liberal.

i know plenty of people who are 100% pure on one side or the other. But you should probably stop criticizing people
who you think are nothing but regurgitators of right wing talking points. because you’re the exact, precise mirror image.
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I do.
But I was fishing with and chatting with Jeff a bunch back then. Block Island Jeff is more complicated than you think, especially since he was raised as a corn fed Iowa kid....

(Oh, and to play your game, I think the left is wrong on the death penalty, especially for first degree cases cases with DNA evidence/cop killed/kid killed, among other things)

i wasn’t talking to you, i have said on multiple occasions you are thoughtful and sharp. i specified spence, pete, wdmso. fair enough? I named specific names, and there’s. reason you weren’t on it.

if i can predict exactly what spence is going to say on every single issue before he chimes in, he’s not complicated. I don’t doubt he’s a really good person, i’m confident he’d never mistreat anyone. but politically, he’s as complicated as a parrot.

And i didn’t start this game. the lefties, when presented with valid arguments that they couldnt refute, fall back on the position that were all just regurgitating faux news talking points. an ironic accusation from a group ( that you’re not in) who doesn’t have an original thought among them.


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You’re obsessed with labels.

A huge reason for the population shift is simply an surge of retirees looking for sunshine.

Logic to a guy with his needle stuck will just fuel his fire.
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Logic to a guy with his needle stuck will just fuel his fire.
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when liberals lob baseless insults, it means i’ve won.
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Logic to a guy with his needle stuck will just fuel his fire.
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it’s “logical” to deny we bungled the last few days in afghanistan. it’s “logical” to deny that people
and companies are moving away from blue states and to red states, for reasons other than weather. it’s logical to claim that men are women, and it’s logical to deny that fatherless is the worst problem facing blacks, it’s logical
to say police are what’s wrong with our cities, logical for bankrupt states to raise taxes and spend more.

i’m not saying conservatives aren’t illogical at times. but jeez….
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right, right!!!! So why arent they moving to southern California? Please, please explain?
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Different reasons. Taxes are one of them but remember Florida generates a huge amount of revenue from sales and excise taxes which are fueled by its main industry, tourism. This allows the state to avoid income tax. in terms of general affordability Florida is actually a pretty expensive state to live in.

Once again, you’re oversimplifying issues.

Different reasons. Taxes are one of them but remember Florida generates a huge amount of revenue from sales and excise taxes which are fueled by its main industry, tourism. This allows the state to avoid income tax. in terms of general affordability Florida is actually a pretty expensive state to live in.

Once again, you’re oversimplifying issues.

TN also generates its state revenue from a hefty sales tax. And it’s a state that huge numbers of people
are flocking to. people
like that idea.

“FL is actually a pretty expensive state to live in.”

right, which is why no retirees move there.

i’m not simplifying anything. you’re deflecting and dodging everything that paints conservatism in a favorable light. NC and TX have more than tourism, but they are well run red states that can’t build
houses fast enough.

If CTs economy was thriving and people and businesses were flocking here, i’d concede that liberalism was onto something. but the states that are a mess are disproportionately blue, and the states that are booming are disproportionately red. I’m curious to know what the reason is, to see what we can learn from it. You are scared sh-tess to know what the reason is. because you can’t process it accept that which doesn’t support liberalism. I’ll happily go where the empirical data leads me. You deny everything which doesn’t paint liberalism favorably.

TN and NH don’t have disneyworld, yet they also avoid an income tax. you don’t need tourism to avoid an income tax. you need the willingness to say “ no” when public labor unions ask for unreasonable money. that’s all.
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when liberals lob baseless insults, it means i’ve won.
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No it just means we like to wind you up and watch you spin.

that’s so stupid and fu—ed up, it’s hard to know where to begin.

you don’t think america is exceptional? we don’t stand out i. terms of what we’ve done for the world? can you tell me which country has done more?

i don’t want to adhere to moral
customs “because they’re in the bible.”. i want to adhere to moral
customs which have proven to work, and to avoid moral customs which have proven to be a disaster.

you’re saying it’s flawed to want to abide by the constitution? so any president should
be able to do whatever he wants?

still trying to figure out if you think trump and his fans are war mongers. trump is the opposite.

if you can point me to data which suggests that anything on than the nuclear family is far better for children, and that fatherless homes are a disaster for young children especially boys, all ears.

I’m conservative precisely because i respond to empirical
results. advocate for what has been shown to work, i advocate against that which has been shown to be a catastrophe.


why are americans fleeing blue states and moving to red states?
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What’s stupid is you think cherry picking a couple of those that are more American in value and ignoring so much of the rest, which in this world in which we live is antiquated and basically head in the sand thinking. We could start an entire thread discussing that list and I’d have some fun with that one. Live in the past if you like, the future is slapping the world in the face and we all better wake to fu*k up.

No it just means we like to wind you up and watch you spin.

yeah you have me in knots all right.

Meanwhile president Biden’s approval ratings keep dropping, and people are continuing to flee blue states for red states. but i do t have a logical case to make that he bungled Afghanistan, nor can i make a case that people are making a statement when they move across the country in huge numbers.
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What’s stupid is you think cherry picking a couple of those that are more American in value and ignoring so much of the rest, which in this world in which we live is antiquated and basically head in the sand thinking. We could start an entire thread discussing that list and I’d have some fun with that one. Live in the past if you like, the future is slapping the world in the face and we all better wake to fu*k up.

is the nuclear family an antiquated and head in the sand notion? or is it something that irrefutably adds so
much value and stability, that we should encourage it?

i don’t advocate for things just because they’re new and weird. If they show to be an improvement, that i’ll shout for it at the top of my lungs.

I go where the facts and results take me GS, not where Tachael Maddow tells
me to go.

Are the places that have really embraces this “progress”, out performing places that cling to traditional values? are people
moving from TX and SC to San Francisco and Manhattan? No.

Why aren’t they?
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is the nuclear family an antiquated and head in the sand notion? or is it something that irrefutably adds so
much value and stability, that we should encourage it?

i don’t advocate for things just because they’re new and weird. If they show to be an improvement, that i’ll shout for it at the top of my lungs.

I go where the facts and results take me GS, not where Tachael Maddow tells
me to go.

Are the places that have really embraces this “progress”, out performing places that cling to traditional values? are people
moving from TX and SC to San Francisco and Manhattan? No.

Why aren’t they?
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Like I said cherry pick what most Americans “try” to hold together like family you won’t find an argument from me, I will however argue that a lot of those old conservative valves are antiquated, spin away.

Like I said cherry pick what most Americans “try” to hold together like family you won’t find an argument from me, I will however argue that a lot of those old conservative valves are antiquated, spin away.

ok, seems like you’re saying family is good. so why do liberals say that the police, not fatherlessness, s what’s wrong with our cities.

just because a value or tradition is old,,doesn’t mean it’s inferior to what’s new. That doesn’t mean im opposed to change, but “change” isn’t always “improvement”. im easier than most to persuade if you have facts, empirical
results, and. imminent sense i. your side.

I see the clear exodus from blue states to red states, that tells me that much of america does t agree with guy. there’s a reason why people are moving to FL and TX and not to CA.

for the second time ( sorry if you answered this) can you point me to a place that’s really embracing today’progressive liberalism, which is thriving in a way that can be replicated on a large scale? because i can’t think of one. the ones i can think of, are disgusting, failing crapholes that people
can’t flee fast enough. but i can name several conservative places that are booming in a way that could be replicated.
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Like I said cherry pick what most Americans “try” to hold together like family you won’t find an argument from me, I will however argue that a lot of those old conservative valves are antiquated, spin away.

you can lob baseless insults at conservative values. but the bluest states are failing ( rising crime, impossible unfunded debt, shrinking populations) and people
are moving to red states. that tells
me something. you don’t like what it says, so you ignore it.

and you seem to take a lot of joy in bashing religion. yet people
who identify as religious constantly claim to be happier and lead richer lives, than secular folks.

When everything points to blue states as thriving and red states as failing, I swear I’ll join your side. but the facts don’t support it. not even close.
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there was no plot or thought to overturn the election, they were a bunch of anarchist cry babies who didn’t get the result they wanted, so they rioted. surprised you don’t recognize ice that tactic, it’s what your side does regularly, his might have been the first time in my lifetime tnat it was fine by republicans.

it was a riot, a pretty low-key riot compared to what lefties did all summer, in terms of carnage and property damage. lefties actually managed to secede from the nation for a short while, creating the short lived nation of Chaz.

i’m old enough to remember when liberals stormed the state capital
in Wisconsin because they didn’t like that scott walker was going to take political power away from labor unions. january 6 was a lot like that.

also, the one casualty that day was a woman shot to death who was completely unarmed, 5’2” tall, got no warning, shot to death for the crime of trespassing. and no one cares, because she was white, conservative, not a violent felon scumbag. if she was a non white violent felon scumbag, the left would
make her a martyr. because whe was white and conservative, the left says she got exactly what was coming to her. But Michael Brown was an innocent victim, <sniff> I’m tearing up at the thought.
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Your clueless
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Your clueless
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fine, then tell me what their plan was.
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there was no plot or thought to overturn the election, they were a bunch of anarchist cry babies who didn’t get the result they wanted, so they rioted. surprised you don’t recognize ice that tactic, it’s what your side does regularly, his might have been the first time in my lifetime tnat it was fine by republicans.

it was a riot, a pretty low-key riot compared to what lefties did all summer, in terms of carnage and property damage. lefties actually managed to secede from the nation for a short while, creating the short lived nation of Chaz.

i’m old enough to remember when liberals stormed the state capital
in Wisconsin because they didn’t like that scott walker was going to take political power away from labor unions. january 6 was a lot like that.

also, the one casualty that day was a woman shot to death who was completely unarmed, 5’2” tall, got no warning, shot to death for the crime of trespassing. and no one cares, because she was white, conservative, not a violent felon scumbag. if she was a non white violent felon scumbag, the left would
make her a martyr. because whe was white and conservative, the left says she got exactly what was coming to her. But Michael Brown was an innocent victim, <sniff> I’m tearing up at the thought.
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You took all that effort . then brought up Babbitt you are a tool of the right . don’t try to suggest otherwise
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Jim like Scott support seditious behavior . But the try to hide it in gymnastics linguists . As intellectual cover !as if everyone is to stupid to. Know what’s going on
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there was no plot or thought to overturn the election, they were a bunch of anarchist cry babies who didn’t get the result they wanted, so they rioted. surprised you don’t recognize ice that tactic, it’s what your side does regularly, his might have been the first time in my lifetime tnat it was fine by republicans.

it was a riot, a pretty low-key riot compared to what lefties did all summer, in terms of carnage and property damage. lefties actually managed to secede from the nation for a short while, creating the short lived nation of Chaz.

i’m old enough to remember when liberals stormed the state capital
in Wisconsin because they didn’t like that scott walker was going to take political power away from labor unions. january 6 was a lot like that.

also, the one casualty that day was a woman shot to death who was completely unarmed, 5’2” tall, got no warning, shot to death for the crime of trespassing. and no one cares, because she was white, conservative, not a violent felon scumbag. if she was a non white violent felon scumbag, the left would
make her a martyr. because whe was white and conservative, the left says she got exactly what was coming to her. But Michael Brown was an innocent victim, <sniff> I’m tearing up at the thought.
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Omg do you believe what you posted
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Omg do you believe what you posted
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He is completely delusional.

He is stuck spinning out of control.

when liberals lob baseless insults, it means i’ve won.
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Don’t worry — the first 40 years of childhood are always the hardest.
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Omg do you believe what you posted
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vague insults, no substance.

would you mind telling me what i said, which was way off base please?
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He is completely delusional.

from the guy who isn’t a liberal, yet agrees with liberalism 100 % of the time.
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Almost 25% of daily US COVID deaths are in Florida. This wave is striking because it is pretty hard to go above pre-vaccination waves. It's almost double.

Thankfully has not happened in any other state. In fact, very few countries have had this happen either.
Run by a Stable Genius, maybe that’s why they’re using horse wormer
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He is stuck spinning out of control.

more baseless insults. and you are dodging my question, which die hard liberal states are thriving in a way that we can, and should in your opinion, expand hpon?

you can’t answer, but won’t concede that not being able to
answer,, kind of means i have a point.

what does it say about the flimsiness of your beliefs, that you are stopped completely in your tracks by such a childlike, simple question.
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vague insults, no substance.

would you mind telling me what i said, which was way off base please?
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The most successful psychological operation (psyops) ever conducted against the entirety of a nation continues amongst the Fox Entertainment viewing audience. Quite amazing. Very costly. Bad for America.
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The most successful psychological operation (psyops) ever conducted against the entirety of a nation continues amongst the Fox Entertainment viewing audience. Quite amazing. Very costly. Bad for America.
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whatever.

can you tell me what i said, which was way off base? that seems like
an impossible question for you all to answer. gee i wonder why that is?
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Do you honestly believe what you’re fed by the Murdochs?
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Do you honestly believe what you’re fed by the Murdochs?
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for the fourth time, can you please just tell me hat i said, which is way off?
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Almost 25% of daily US COVID deaths are in Florida. This wave is striking because it is pretty hard to go above pre-vaccination waves. It's almost double.

Thankfully has not happened in any other state. In fact, very few countries have had this happen either.
Run by a Stable Genius, maybe that’s why they’re using horse wormer
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inception to date, florida’s death rate is in the middle of the pack. which isn’t immediately impressive, until
you consider they have a huge number of seniors, their businesses have been open, their kids have been in schools. And their death rate is lower then NY, NJ, CT.

that’s called “winning.”

when it’s over, if florida’s overall death rate ( which is by far the most important stat) is way above average, i’ll be the first to say Desantis failed and that he should t be potus.

we sure arent there yet, people, including tons of liberals, are moving g there in massive numbers. Can you tell me why? if they just want warmth, why not move to southern CA, which is also warm and has politics they’d like?

none of guys liberal pals will try to answer. will you?
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Jim
Florida is third in COVID deaths per 100K
You could ask yourself if the rest of your statements are based on similar disinformation.
But you won’t
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In 2018, Ron DeSantis won by: 32,000

Currently, Florida's COVID deaths: 46,000

Hmmmm
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Jim
Florida is third in COVID deaths per 100K
You could ask yourself if the rest of your statements are based on similar disinformation.
But you won’t
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as of september 6, 2021, florida’s inception to date death rate is 16h, behind NJ, NY, MA, CT, RI. FL is moving up to be sure. but 16th ain’t third. and look at the states in the top 10…

NY has a higher death rate, yet their governor was labeled the “gold standard” by Biden, and hollywood gave him an emmy. and you’d vote for him in a second, if he ran for potus. and you guys were all weak in the knees telling us how awesome he is.

And again, Florida’s kids didn’t miss 18 months of school. They’ll be writing papers about the impact of 18 lost months of schooling in blue states, for 50 years.

By what standard would
anyone give higher marks to NY, NJ, MA, CT, or RI than FL?

We also know that NY was cooking the books, to fool people
like you into wearing “I love Cuomo” t shirts.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/
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Jim
Florida is third in COVID deaths per 100K
You could ask yourself if the rest of your statements are based on similar disinformation.
But you won’t
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please show us data that shows that Florida’s death rate is third in the US.

I provided a link showing that inception to date ( which is what matters), their death rate is 16th. please share your data with us.
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https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/north-dakota-covid-cases.html
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'We are a warning for everyone else': Florida epidemiologists advise other states to learn from DeSantis' COVID bungling
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Ron DeSantis’s poll numbers are now down 14%.

This is what happens when you govern like an authoritarian.
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You do need to remember that this is a world where 74 million people voted to re-elect Donald J Trump. These are the same people that think DeSantis is a good leader.
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for the fourth time, can you please just tell me hat i said, which is way off?
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Jim I’m worried that with all that spinning you might pass out and hit your head, do you have some nuclear family members around to help? Off to go fishing, maybe you should to.

This is what happens when you govern like an authoritarian.

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...so you want him to be less of an authoritarian and impose and mandate things for others that they may not necessarily want to do?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/north-dakota-covid-cases.html
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your data is for the last 7 days. mine was from the beginning. is there some reason why last week matters more than the whole history?

Destroyed.
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Jim I’m worried that with all that spinning you might pass out and hit your head, do you have some nuclear family members around to help? Off to go fishing, maybe you should to.

you keep saying i’m full of this, and spinning that, but i asked four times, and you can’t name a single specific thing i said which was wrong?

but i’m the one being dishonest for political purposes. Gotcha.

GS: Jim you’re engaging in spin.

Jim: what did i sY that was wrong?

GS: i have to go fishing.

cowardly dodge. classic liberal, when the facts are t on your side, lob an insult and run away.

i was fishing with kids all
day yesterday. working today say.


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Ron DeSantis’s poll numbers are now down 14%.

This is what happens when you govern like an authoritarian.
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so desantis’ latest poll matters, but biden’s recent polling doesn’t matter? can you explain that?

as i said, FLs numbers are rising, and if they continue to do so, Desantis deserves to be held accountable, and he deserves to be voted out and to never be potus. so that not fair for me to say?

but what matters is his while record, not cherry picking one week, which is what you did.

i think it’s wrong for him to bash masks the way he does. i don’t like everything about him.
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Just click on all time

TOTAL
CASES PER
100,000 TOTAL
DEATHS PER
100,000 FULLY
VACCINATED
United States 40,081,326 12,080 cases trajectory all time 648,779 196 deaths trajectory all time 53%
North Dakota › 119,724 15,711 cases trajectory all time 1,596 209 deaths trajectory all time 42%
Rhode Island › 163,742 15,457 cases trajectory all time 2,773 262 deaths trajectory all time 65%
Florida › 3,308,916 15,406 cases trajectory all time 46,324 216 deaths trajectory all time 54%

Almost 25% of daily US COVID deaths are in Florida. This wave is striking because it is pretty hard to go above pre-vaccination waves. It's almost double.

Thankfully has not happened in any other state. In fact, very few countries have had this happen either.

And now, the latest Biden report from the Conventional News Network...

It's been a rough summer for the president folks because...

--Job growth slowing slightly (although yes, Biden has created more jobs in his first six months than any president in history)
--COVID spiking (although yes, the admin performed a miracle getting the vaccine out & the GOP has systematically undermine admin efforts to save lives)
--Afghanistan exit chat (although yes, the president ended a futile 20 year war and the administration managed to evacuate 125,000 people so far in one of the biggest humanitarian airlifts every and ending wars is chaotic by nature)
--Infrastructure plans face opposition (although yes, that's the way Congress works, the infrastructure bill represents a bipartisan breakthrough and much of the opposition is posturing)
--Fires, floods and storms! (although yes, Biden has put together an aggressive plan to combat the climate crisis, undone the huge damage done by his predecessor, gotten the US back into the Paris Accords, and made this a priority in the way no prior president has)
--Biden draws on his own personal experience while expressing compassion (although yes, the previous president was a sociopath and the story that being a genuine human made people uncomfortable was a cynical political spin job by the opposition...like much of the above)
Record economic growth, record job creation, record appointments to the court, the most diverse administration in history, massive effort to undo the damage done by predecessors, ushering in a new future oriented foreign policy and ending the disastrous post 9/11 era...
..restoring compassion, competence, a respect for the rule of law and a commitment to governance...although yes, we get it, he's not perfect, not every goal is achieved, sometime his opponents succeed in blocking him, sometimes mistakes are made...
...but he's actually having a great year. But let's be honest, a slight dip in public opinion polls is inevitable when there's so much misinformation and false bothsidesism in media coverage and what's really important--support for his core policies remains high and bi-partisan.
Oh..and one more thing..the opposition does not offer any kind of credible alternative policies, focus on obstruction, remain loyal to the most corrupt, incompetent, malevolent demagogue in US history, are systematically carving away the rights of American women and voters...
...and are conducting an assault on democracy in the United States that may yet succeed. Biden is hugely successful if imperfect and much remains to be done. His opponents represent a threat to everything we have cherished about America's values and our institutions.
But sure...let's go with that old conventional wisdom, that easy if entirely inaccurate set of takes that are so popular these days. Who cares if it makes terrible outcomes in our country's future more likely? Who cares if it is deeply misleading?
(p.s. This is not directed at any one media organization. There are many great journalists at work at almost all of the ones you'd watch or read. If you don't watch Fox or OANN. But among them, there are others who are helping to create the problem flagged here.)

David Rothkopf

Almost 25% of daily US COVID deaths are in Florida. This wave is striking because it is pretty hard to go above pre-vaccination waves. It's almost double.

Thankfully has not happened in any other state. In fact, very few countries have had this happen either.

i went to your NY times link, looked at deaths all time, FL was 216 per 100k, NY is 278, which is 29% higher. CT is 235 per 100k, MA s 265 per 100k.

According to your link, FL has a better death rate than NY, CT, MA. And florida’s businesses didn’t shut down like we did, Florida’s kids didn’t miss nearly as much school.

That’s called “winning.”

you’re either lying or cherry picking. or maybe too stupid to figure out your own link.

florida’s inception to date death rate, isn’t in the top 10. i know that drives you crazy, but facts don’t care if they make you crazy. they’re still facts.

Desantis is taking big chances in my book. But as of now. he is winning. that may well change, and if it does, i’ll immediately acknowledge he blew it. unlike you, i don’t have a problem criticizing those in my side when they deserve it.

But as of right now, Desantis gets higher marks than Cuomo who was hailed as a hero.

case counts don’t matter. deaths matter. who cares if someone gets covid but has no symptoms?

no sane person would
rather live in a state with lower case coubts, higher death rates, and which is quick to shut down schools
and businesses. not if they could choose a state with higher cases, lower death rates, where businesses are open and kids are learning.

You. Lose.




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DeSantis is on his way to catching up, with a daily average for the past seven days that is only behind Mississippi and NYS is at the other end of the spectrum, just a little ahead of CT.

DeSantis is on his way to catching up, with a daily average for the past seven days that is only behind Mississippi and NYS is at the other end of the spectrum, just a little ahead of CT.

i am sure you’ll have huge orgasms if Florida catches NY in deaths. i’m
just watching.
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Anti-Taliban Resistance Declares It Will Fight On in Panjshir

Republicans including Rep, Mike Waltz, R-Fla., have urged Biden to help the resistance in its cause.

will republicans ever learn ?

the GOP are falling over these Guys wanting to send weapons and support as if the last 20yrs never happened ... where were they when the taliban took over? defending their own personal little slice of Afghanistan..

i am sure you’ll have huge orgasms if Florida catches NY in deaths. i’m
just watching.
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Jim, you’ve been orgasmic for the past week, since the people who feed you misinformation said the withdrawal from Afghanistan should have been somehow improved or better yet not done at all.

You are a sad strange little man, and you have my pity
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Jim, you’ve been orgasmic for the past week, since the people who feed you misinformation said the withdrawal from Afghanistan should have been somehow improved or better yet not done at all.

You are a sad strange little man, and you have my pity
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if it’s misinformation to conclude that biden bungled this, that means the only informed ones are the liberal fanatics. that’s not the case. only rabid fanatics are saying we should have been able to do better.

When a very, very liberal congressman from massachusetts, who also did 4 tours there with the marines says it was a “fu—ing disaster” and “preventable”, i don’t know on what basis Id doubt him. it doesn’t benefit him politically to say that, so i assume he’s an honorable guy who’s being honest. as opposed to, say, you.

we can’t all be as well informed as the guy who claims that last weeks death rates are more important than inception to date death rates.

I have no doubt i appear strange to you. Intellectual honesty, no doubt, appears bizarre to someone who is incapable of it.

You were banned from starting threads here by the fairest guy in the world, because you were so deranged. But i’m strange. Whatever you say, Columbo.

Who do you get along with here, other than the people
who agree with you on every issue? i’ve disagreed with rock hound, scott, detbuch, dangles, tdf, and john. the disagreements have always been respectful.

When was the last time you had a healthy, respectful disagreement with someone here?

I’m not sure i agree with rock hound in a single solitary issue. maybe other then gay marriage. but i think he’s sharp and honest and serious and beneficial to go back and forth with. which conservatives here can you say that about?
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Jim, you’ve been orgasmic for the past week, since the people who feed you misinformation said the withdrawal from Afghanistan should have been somehow improved or better yet not done at all.

You are a sad strange little man, and you have my pity
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not done at all? can you please tell us which prominent conservative voices, are saying we shouldn’t have withdrawn from afghanistan? i don’t know that i’ve heard a single influential person say that, and I mean that.

Who are you referring to? Or are you hearing voices?
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not done at all? can you please tell us which prominent conservative voices, are saying we shouldn’t have withdrawn from afghanistan? i don’t know that i’ve heard a single influential person say that, and I mean that.

Who are you referring to? Or are you hearing voices?
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Since I have seen nobody including you the greatest military mind of your generation explain in detail the alternative to GTFO, but propose to gain control of a sovereign country thru military force and you would do this with some magical force other than troops on the ground, yes you’re full of #^&#^&#^&#^&
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Since I have seen nobody including you the greatest military mind of your generation explain in detail the alternative to GTFO, but propose to gain control of a sovereign country thru military force and you would do this with some magical force other than troops on the ground, yes you’re full of #^&#^&#^&#^&
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they could have kept Bagram and used that when kabul got crazy. they could have gotten citizens out first, then military. there, those are the alternatives as presented by military. including dan crenshaw, tom cotton ( who have political motives too) and Seth Moulton, who is a liberal democrat and therefore has exactly zero political motive. None.

you asked, i answered. now can you show me the same courtesy? who are the influential conservatives, who you claim are saying we should not have left afghanistan?

you made the claim, just back it up. why is that so hard. unless you lied.
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Unfortunately your scenario doesn’t eliminate the interface between the group trying to leave and the people helping them to.
I don’t need to find the people who said we shouldn’t leave now for you, look in the mirror
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I don’t need to find the people who said we shouldn’t leave now for you, look in the mirror
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so you made it up.

i said very specifically i agreed with getting out.

you’re a liar. caught.
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so you made it up.

i said very specifically i agreed with getting out.

you’re a liar. caught.
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Sorry little man, while you claim that, your solution inevitably leads to more boots on the ground.
Twenty years is enough
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Sorry little man, while you claim that, your solution inevitably leads to more boots on the ground.
Twenty years is enough
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we can’t all be as impressive as a keyboard tough guy who wilts when asked a brutal question such as “ who said what you claim republicans are saying?”

i mean, who can measure up to that?

You asked who provided alternatives, i listed a link. I supported my claim.

i asked who said we should still be in afghanistan, and you say “i’m not looking it up for you.”. you can’t support your claim, but you tru and make that my flaw, not yours.

every one has an issue with you, but that’s all our fault, not yours. it’s all everyone else’s character flaws, nothing to do with you.
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Nobody said we shouldn’t withdraw now?
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Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) says he believes the United States “will be going back into Afghanistan” despite the recently declared end of nearly two decades of American military presence in the country.
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Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) says he believes the United States “will be going back into Afghanistan” despite the recently declared end of nearly two decades of American military presence in the country.
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I’ll try to go slow so even you can understand…

predicting that we will go back, isn’t the same as saying we shouldn’t have withdrawn. Those are two different things.

I think we should have pulled out a long time ago. I also think there’s a meaningful chance we have to go back some day ( if jihadists become a threat).

Stick to insulting the children of the members here, you’re better at that.
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Pete i looked up Graham’s comments on the withdrawal. i didn’t see anything to indicate he thinks we should stay forever. he just thinks we should
have had a better plan to withdraw. that’s what almost everyone is saying. The withdrawal was the right idea, but it was poorly executed.

You suggested that a meaningful republican force wishes we stayed. i honestly don’t know a single person who has ever said that, for sure that’s not what any meaningful
number of conservatives are saying.

You claimed we were saying that. You lied.
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Pete i looked up Graham’s comments on the withdrawal. i didn’t see anything to indicate he thinks we should stay forever. he just thinks we should
have had a better plan to withdraw. that’s what almost everyone is saying. The withdrawal was the right idea, but it was poorly executed.

You suggested that a meaningful republican force wishes we stayed. i honestly don’t know a single person who has ever said that, for sure that’s not what any meaningful
number of conservatives are saying.

You claimed we were saying that. You lied.
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toe the party line

Mr. Trump came into office having reversed his party’s long-held position on foreign interventions and called for an immediate removal of American troops stationed overseas. In February 2020, he announced a peace treaty with the Taliban, negotiated by Mr. Pompeo, that called for ending the American presence by May 1, 2021.

After his defeat last November, Republicans clung to Mr. Trump’s America-first line. They urged Mr. Biden to stick to the May 1 deadline, and publicly groused when Mr. Biden extended the date for a withdrawal until Aug. 31. “That kind of thinking has kept us in Afghanistan nearly 20 years,” Representative Andy Biggs of Arizona complained at the time.

But as the Americans’ final days in Afghanistan devolved last month into a frantic race to get more than 125,000 people out — during which 13 service members were killed in a bombing attack outside the Kabul airport — Republican lawmakers and candidates who had embraced Mr. Trump’s agreement with the Taliban abruptly changed their tune. They savaged Mr. Biden for negotiating with the Taliban and denounced his avowed eagerness to wind down the American presence in Afghanistan before Sept. 11, calling it a sign of weakness.

“I would not allow the Taliban to dictate the date that Americans leave,” Mr. McCarthy said at a news conference on Friday. “But this president did, and I don’t believe any other president would, Republican or Democrat, outside of Joe Biden.”

Once defined by its hawkishness, the G.O.P. since Mr. Trump’s 2016 election has ruptured into camps of traditional interventionists like Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, who never quite warmed to Mr. Trump’s inward-looking foreign policy, and backers of Mr. Trump’s America-first approach, who shared his impatience in extricating the nation from intractable conflicts abroad.

Last year, Mr. McConnell, then the majority leader, took to the Senate floor to decry Mr. Trump’s planned withdrawal from Afghanistan, warning that a premature exit would be “reminiscent of the humiliating American departure from Saigon.”

But hitting Mr. Biden unites them all.

The Republican calls for Mr. Biden’s resignation, impeachment or removal from office under the 25th Amendment are also a reminder of how much more polarized the country’s politics have become since the start of the U.S. war in Afghanistan in the immediate aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks, when Democrats and Republicans alike united behind President George W. Bush.

No Republican has turned faster on the Afghanistan withdrawal than Mr. Trump himself, who after years of espousing a return to isolationism has spent the last two weeks attacking Mr. Biden for carrying out the very withdrawal he had demanded and then negotiated.

As late as April 18, Mr. Trump exhorted Mr. Biden to accelerate the timetable for withdrawal: “I planned to withdraw on May 1st,” he said. “We should keep as close to that schedule as possible.”

Once things appeared to go haywire, however, the former president began to speak out against the withdrawal.

On Aug. 24, Mr. Trump accused Mr. Biden of forcing the military to “run off the battlefield,” leaving “thousands” of Americans as “hostages.” And he suggested that Mr. Biden should have kept at least some troop presence in Afghanistan.

“We had Afghanistan and Kabul in perfect control with just 2,500 soldiers and he destroyed it when it was demanded that they flee!” Mr. Trump said.

Other Republicans fell in behind Mr. Trump in attacking the president: Mr. McCarthy urged his lawmakers in a letter this week to make the case that Mr. Biden was single-handedly responsible for “the worst foreign policy disaster in a generation.”

toe the party line

Mr. Trump came into office having reversed his party’s long-held position on foreign interventions and called for an immediate removal of American troops stationed overseas. In February 2020, he announced a peace treaty with the Taliban, negotiated by Mr. Pompeo, that called for ending the American presence by May 1, 2021.

After his defeat last November, Republicans clung to Mr. Trump’s America-first line. They urged Mr. Biden to stick to the May 1 deadline, and publicly groused when Mr. Biden extended the date for a withdrawal until Aug. 31. “That kind of thinking has kept us in Afghanistan nearly 20 years,” Representative Andy Biggs of Arizona complained at the time.

But as the Americans’ final days in Afghanistan devolved last month into a frantic race to get more than 125,000 people out — during which 13 service members were killed in a bombing attack outside the Kabul airport — Republican lawmakers and candidates who had embraced Mr. Trump’s agreement with the Taliban abruptly changed their tune. They savaged Mr. Biden for negotiating with the Taliban and denounced his avowed eagerness to wind down the American presence in Afghanistan before Sept. 11, calling it a sign of weakness.

“I would not allow the Taliban to dictate the date that Americans leave,” Mr. McCarthy said at a news conference on Friday. “But this president did, and I don’t believe any other president would, Republican or Democrat, outside of Joe Biden.”

Once defined by its hawkishness, the G.O.P. since Mr. Trump’s 2016 election has ruptured into camps of traditional interventionists like Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, who never quite warmed to Mr. Trump’s inward-looking foreign policy, and backers of Mr. Trump’s America-first approach, who shared his impatience in extricating the nation from intractable conflicts abroad.

Last year, Mr. McConnell, then the majority leader, took to the Senate floor to decry Mr. Trump’s planned withdrawal from Afghanistan, warning that a premature exit would be “reminiscent of the humiliating American departure from Saigon.”

But hitting Mr. Biden unites them all.

The Republican calls for Mr. Biden’s resignation, impeachment or removal from office under the 25th Amendment are also a reminder of how much more polarized the country’s politics have become since the start of the U.S. war in Afghanistan in the immediate aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks, when Democrats and Republicans alike united behind President George W. Bush.

No Republican has turned faster on the Afghanistan withdrawal than Mr. Trump himself, who after years of espousing a return to isolationism has spent the last two weeks attacking Mr. Biden for carrying out the very withdrawal he had demanded and then negotiated.

As late as April 18, Mr. Trump exhorted Mr. Biden to accelerate the timetable for withdrawal: “I planned to withdraw on May 1st,” he said. “We should keep as close to that schedule as possible.”

Once things appeared to go haywire, however, the former president began to speak out against the withdrawal.

On Aug. 24, Mr. Trump accused Mr. Biden of forcing the military to “run off the battlefield,” leaving “thousands” of Americans as “hostages.” And he suggested that Mr. Biden should have kept at least some troop presence in Afghanistan.

“We had Afghanistan and Kabul in perfect control with just 2,500 soldiers and he destroyed it when it was demanded that they flee!” Mr. Trump said.

Other Republicans fell in behind Mr. Trump in attacking the president: Mr. McCarthy urged his lawmakers in a letter this week to make the case that Mr. Biden was single-handedly responsible for “the worst foreign policy disaster in a generation.”

pete, they’re saying we shouldn’t have left until we were sure our citizens and allies were out. if that’s such an extremist position, maybe biden shouldn’t have promised to do precisely that. a promise he walked away from a couple of days later. and that’s what got him into hot water with americans.

Get your citizens out first, then destroy any valuable equipment you can’t take, then you leave. that’s what a lot of people ( not just republicans, despite what you say, as biden’s approval ratings tanked with independents) are saying.

you desperately, desperately want to believe that no one to the left of sean hannity believes he blew it. While it would be great for your personal agenda if that were the case, the fact is, it’s not the case.

doubtful anyone will remember this come the midterms. so chin up.
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pete, they’re saying we shouldn’t have left until we were sure our citizens and allies were out. if that’s such an extremist position, maybe biden shouldn’t have promised to do precisely that. a promise he walked away from a couple of days later. and that’s what got him into hot water with americans.

Get your citizens out first, then destroy any valuable equipment you can’t take, then you leave. that’s what a lot of people ( not just republicans, despite what you say, as biden’s approval ratings tanked with independents) are saying.

you desperately, desperately want to believe that no one to the left of sean hannity believes he blew it. While it would be great for your personal agenda if that were the case, the fact is, it’s not the case.

doubtful anyone will remember this come the midterms. so chin up.
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Keep toeing the party line

I see you qualified it as "Get your citizens out first, then destroy any valuable equipment you can’t take, then you leave."

TFG had plans to evacuate just as many Afghans as he did Kurds and blocked the vast majority of SIVs for his term.

No viable alternative has been presented that did not involve remobilizing troops to Pre January levels.

Keeping Bagram in addition to Kabul would require more troops and provides no added protection against suicide bombers at the evacuee interface.

Using Bagram instead of Kabul would have exposed more than a hundred thousand people to more dangerous situations than a single suicide bomber, including our troops and not eliminated suicide bombers.

As far as destroying all the equipment we provided to the Afghan army, would you have done that before, during or after their demise? Don't you think the Taliban would have noticed that the Afghan army was being disarmed?

We sold Blackhawks to China 20 years ago, and the Russians have had the basics for over 30.
The Super Tucano is Brazilian and on sale for 20 years.

More than 100K people (and likely substantially more) were killed during the U.S. presence in Afghanistan. Congress reflexively spent billions each year with no real oversight. Where was your universal outrage and condemnation during 20 years of horror and incompetence?

We're out, it's over, lets make sure we don't go try and setup a new Government again, though given our record I don't have a lot of faith.

Jim looks like the administration has negotiated the flight of a couple hundred including Americans as he promised he would as other avenues opened up, rage on.
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Jim looks like the administration has negotiated the flight of a couple hundred including Americans as he promised he would as other avenues opened up, rage on.
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All I feel about that, is happiness for those folks, and gratitude that the administration kept at it. If we get them all out, then this wasn't the disaster that Biden critics predicted that it would be.

Fair enough?

Deny on...

Trump If we only had Robert E Lee to command our Troops in Afghanistan , that disaster would have ended in a complete and Total victory many years ago. What an embarrassment we are suffering because we dont have the genius of a Robert E Lee !

I am sorry if your a Conservative or a Republican and still support this seditious scumBag you're a bigger threat to America the the Taliban ever was

By the way, not to take Trump’s idiotic posturing too seriously, but:

Trump was president.

If he thought the commanders in Afghanistan were doing a bad job, he could have removed them.

But of course he never cared a whit about the troops serving in Afghanistan, or elsewhere.

These states aren't turning blue because conservatives are suddenly discovering their inner AOC. The shift is driven by demographics—what demographers call "generational replacement," . . .

Welcome to the Great Migration 2.0, one that may give the Democrats an electoral advantage that could last for generations to come.



This is interesting. When I said that my concern over millions of illegal immigrants being accepted here, with the Democrat Party's support and encouragement of it, was because they would cause a demographic political shift to the left, you insisted that my concern was really because the immigrants had brown skin.

I am sorry if your a Conservative or a Republican and still support this seditious scumBag you're a bigger threat to America the the Taliban ever was

that's stupid.

Americans liked his policies wayne, sorry to break it to you. They hated his behavior, loved his results. That's why more Americans said they were better off after 4 years of Trump, than after 4 years of any other president, according to Gallup. I'd love to know what you think this poll means. That Trump broke that record during a pandemic, is shocking.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-record-56-of-americans-say-they-are-better-off-than-four-years-ago/ar-BB1a0Qbp

And did you ever comment on Bidens comment of not being black unless you support him?

Just what is Sharia Law?
In Arabic, the term sharīʿah refers to God's immutable divine law and is contrasted with fiqh, which refers to its human scholarly interpretations.

The "contrast" is not a contradiction or separation from God's immutable divine law. It is not a separate law, it is scholarly and judicial interpretation of the divine law in order to apply it to existing conditions.

Do many white evangelical Christians believe the Bible is the ultimate law by which to govern? And that it supersedes any law written by Man.

I don't know which "many" Christians you refer to, but the New Testament part of the Bible is not concerned with government and its ways of governing. Christ said "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's." Islam, on the other hand, is a prescription for government and governing. Islam is both a religion and a form of government. It is theocracy.

If there was a conflict between God’s law and Man’s law, a Christian would be advised to keep God’s Law. It would be better to go to jail than to rot in Hell. — Truthinlove.com

But a Christian would not impose and enforce God's law on others, on non-believers. An Islamist who had the power, in a predominantly Muslim nation, would impose Islam on all those in the nation.



God said it. I believe it. That settles it.

Which God, Christian, Muslim, or yours?

In the Moral Majority’s founding treatise, they were very clear in their belief that God’s law trumps Man’s law, a Christian form of Sharia law. To them, it was imperative to highjack every means of forcing Man’s law to mirror God’s law with patience (they have been at this for over forty years), surgical political strategies (Citizens United, gerrymandering), and utter ruthlessness (encouraging conspiracy theories and sedition from the pulpit.)


This is why so many white evangelicals justify voting for Donald Trump. After almost forty years, their goal of making the United States a theocracy ruled by God’s law was within reach.

The Christian God's law trumping Man's law came over 600 years before Sharia law. It is not a form of Sharia law.

And the Evangelical sects, as well as Catholics and other Protestants, are not as societally exclusive as Seventh Day Adventists, Amish and others who do not participate in politics or don't even vote. So they have secular as well as religious participation in society. Though they may, like atheists or other religions, try to get legislation that they feel strongly about whether for religious or other personal preferences, they go through the legal process. Some might prefer a Christian theocracy, but that would go against the reasons they broke away from the Catholicism that was so deeply affiliated with government before the Reformation. And even before that Reformation, there was no substantial Christian theocracy. The Pope had great influence, but the Monarchs had the last word, if they chose to express it and enforce it.

I doubt that there is any significant desire in the Evangelicals to transform America into a Theocracy. But it's politically effective to make them bogymen.

Because of Mitch McConnell’s block of judicial confirmations in the United States Senate, federal judicial benches around the country sat vacant. With a transactionally conservative President, a takeover of the liberal federal judiciary was within reach, not only to overturn Roe v Wade, but to enact a raft of Bible-based nationwide legislation. Trump further validated evangelical Christians by elevating one to vice-president; he never questioned their candidates for federal judicial appointments; and he paid lip service to their importance.

Do you think Pence wants to make us a Theocracy? Do you think it's appropriate to question judicial candidates about their religious views or their political views? Do you think appointing judges by race is appropriate. Is it appropriate to appoint judges according to their party affiliation?

Wouldn't the only important question be their fidelity to the Constitution?

that's stupid.

Americans liked his policies wayne, sorry to break it to you. They hated his behavior, loved his results. That's why more Americans said they were better off after 4 years of Trump, than after 4 years of any other president, according to Gallup. I'd love to know what you think this poll means. That Trump broke that record during a pandemic, is shocking.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-record-56-of-americans-say-they-are-better-off-than-four-years-ago/ar-BB1a0Qbp

And did you ever comment on Bidens comment of not being black unless you support him?

Only Stupid I see is people's need to rationalizing things. when Speaking about Trump as if he was 2 different people? its all based on a cult of personality.. he made white people feel better . while attempting to destroy every democratic Norm along the way .. Lying as he did it . And if some of americans like his policies they were enough or he would still be President and even the electoral college couldn't save him

As for did you ever comment on Bidens comment of not being black unless you support him?

I am not black nor entitled to be offended

Joe Biden apologized hours after he told a popular African-American radio host that anyone struggling to decide whether to support him or President Donald Trump in the general election "ain't black."

And seem they accepted His Apology (they voted for him) not sure why you haven't accepted His apology ?

Only Stupid I see is people's need to rationalizing things. when Speaking about Trump as if he was 2 different people? its all based on a cult of personality.. he made white people feel better . while attempting to destroy every democratic Norm along the way .. Lying as he did it . And if some of americans like his policies they were enough or he would still be President and even the electoral college couldn't save him

As for did you ever comment on Bidens comment of not being black unless you support him?

I am not black nor entitled to be offended

Joe Biden apologized hours after he told a popular African-American radio host that anyone struggling to decide whether to support him or President Donald Trump in the general election "ain't black."

And seem they accepted His Apology (they voted for him) not sure why you haven't accepted His apology ?

you say i’m in a cult. no. it’s based on the gallup poll.

and you won’t comment on biden’s racist remarks, but you hold trump accountable for his mis deeds. you seriously don’t see that?
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you say i’m in a cult.

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when are you meetings?...can I watch them on Zoom?.. and do you have a secret handshake?

Only Stupid I see is people's need to rationalizing things.

I am not black nor entitled to be offended

Joe Biden apologized hours after he told a popular African-American radio host that anyone struggling to decide whether to support him or President Donald Trump in the general election "ain't black."

And seem they accepted His Apology (they voted for him)



rationalizing perhaps...

good thing Trump/Bush/Bush isn't president...imagine the outrage...


"The last missile fired by the United States Military in the 20-year war in Afghanistan struck only an innocent Afghan man and his family in Kabul— not ISIS militants, the New York Times reported on Friday.

The blast killed ten members of the extended family of a civilian aid worker, Zemari Ahmadi, and three of his children, Zamir, 20, Faisal, 16, and Farzad, 10; Mr. Ahmadi’s cousin Naser, 30; three of Romal’s children, Arwin, 7, Benyamin, 6, and Hayat, 2; and two 3-year-old girls, Malika and Somaya.

A New York Times investigation looked at video evidence, along with interviews with more than a dozen of the Ahmadi ’s co-workers and family members in Kabul, and found zero evidence that the Biden Regime’s version of events was true."

good thing Trump/Bush/Bush isn't president...imagine the outrage...


"The last missile fired by the United States Military in the 20-year war in Afghanistan struck only an innocent Afghan man and his family in Kabul— not ISIS militants, the New York Times reported on Friday.

The blast killed ten members of the extended family of a civilian aid worker, Zemari Ahmadi, and three of his children, Zamir, 20, Faisal, 16, and Farzad, 10; Mr. Ahmadi’s cousin Naser, 30; three of Romal’s children, Arwin, 7, Benyamin, 6, and Hayat, 2; and two 3-year-old girls, Malika and Somaya.



A New York Times investigation looked at video evidence, along with
interviews with more than a dozen of the Ahmadi ’s co-workers and family members in Kabul, and found zero evidence that the Biden Regime’s version of events was true."

if i recall the state dept clearly stated the were in no position to contest those details . Urban said in a statement that the U.S. was confident that the missile successfully hit the target. And he said that the large secondary explosions indicated the presence of “a substantial amount of explosive material” in the vehicle.

classic the need to want it both ways! No American killed and no Afghans killed .. :faga:

if i recall the state dept clearly stated the were in no position to contest those details . Urban said in a statement that the U.S. was confident that the missile successfully hit the target. And he said that the large secondary explosions indicated the presence of “a substantial amount of explosive material” in the vehicle.

classic the need to want it both ways! No American killed and no Afghans killed .. :faga:

yes! shame on the new york times and their attempt to mischaracterize the approved narrative and smear this administration! :biglaugh:

yes! shame on the new york times and their attempt to mischaracterize the approved narrative and smear this administration! :biglaugh:

never said those people were not killed .. nor did the Administration

As for secondary explosion explanation i'll go with the military version and the strike itself ..

like Ive said many wanted to drop bombs and shoot their way out Of Afghanistan!

Minus all the ugly parts Death and collateral damage .. yelling OMG you didn't do this to protect our troops! Omg you killed children to protect our troops .. ya can't have it both ways..

This has always been a messy war with civilian casualties, it’s unavoidable when the enemy fights in and among the civilian population.

^^^ you guys are hilarious

wait...what???...he must be watching too much FOX News

'Fatally flawed': Top Senate Democrat blasts Biden administration's Afghanistan withdrawal
Deirdre Shesgreen


USA TODAYWASHINGTON – A top Senate Democrat on Tuesday blasted the Biden administration's handling of the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan as "fatally flawed" and threatened to subpoena Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin if he doesn't agree to testify "in the near future."

The sharp rebuke from Sen. Bob Menendez, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, came as Secretary of State Antony Blinken faced a second day of intense questioning by lawmakers furious over the chaotic U.S. exit from Afghanistan.

"The execution of the U.S. withdrawal was clearly and fatally flawed," Menendez, D-N.J., told Blinken in opening remarks. "This committee expects to receive a full explanation of the administration's decisions on Afghanistan since coming into office last January. There has to be accountability.

I have yet to see any viable alternative to what happened in Afghanistan. Unless remobilizing a large number of troops and reengaging with the Taliban was what was good for America.
We’re out, it’s over, never had a chance of being perfect since we failed to pull out in 2002.
2996 died on 9/11
Over 170,000 Afghans have been killed in the war in Afghanistan, do you think the majority of Afghans want it to continue?
Don’t forget that every perpetrator of 9/11 was a Saudi.

Here’s a few other things people said

“For all those trashing Biden for the messy withdrawal from Afghanistan, this is your reminder Trump signed an order after the election to do the withdrawal by January 15, 2021. You want to talk about chaos and people left behind?”
“If anybody believes that the previous administration would’ve evacuated any Afghans to the US much less tens of thousands as President Biden did, I would suggest they ask the Kurds their opinion of that”
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wait...what???...he must be watching too much FOX News

'Fatally flawed': Top Senate Democrat blasts Biden administration's Afghanistan withdrawal
Deirdre Shesgreen


USA TODAYWASHINGTON – A top Senate Democrat on Tuesday blasted the Biden administration's handling of the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan as "fatally flawed" and threatened to subpoena Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin if he doesn't agree to testify "in the near future."

The sharp rebuke from Sen. Bob Menendez, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, came as Secretary of State Antony Blinken faced a second day of intense questioning by lawmakers furious over the chaotic U.S. exit from Afghanistan.

"The execution of the U.S. withdrawal was clearly and fatally flawed," Menendez, D-N.J., told Blinken in opening remarks. "This committee expects to receive a full explanation of the administration's decisions on Afghanistan since coming into office last January. There has to be accountability.

OMG thank you captain obvious, we never would have realized there might be those in our party that see things differently, thank god you are on the case. Love to hear the plan Trump had to execute this withdrawal after pulling so many troops out ahead of the deadline, putting a major burden on the remaining couple thousand, even if the Afghans didn’t roll over and turn over the keys to every city they were there to defend. Oh wait it’s on the record Trump had no plan.

OMG thank you captain obvious, we never would have realized there might be those in our party that see things differently, thank god you are on the case. Love to hear the plan Trump had to execute this withdrawal after pulling so many troops out ahead of the deadline, putting a major burden on the remaining couple thousand, even if the Afghans didn’t roll over and turn over the keys to every city they were there to defend. Oh wait it’s on the record Trump had no plan.

^^^I feel like this was written by a delusional nut...maybe that's a "captain obvious observation" as well :jester:

I have yet to see....

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probably...blinders

Pentagon Reverses Itself And Now Says A Deadly Kabul Drone Strike Was An Error … shocking Biden’s admin admit such a mistake but yet they Did

Shocking
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This has always been a messy war with civilian casualties, it’s unavoidable when the enemy fights in and among the civilian population.

Too bad lefties don't give Israel the same benefit of the doubt in the same exact situation.

Too bad lefties don't give Israel the same benefit of the doubt in the same exact situation.

We do but they do it at a greater scale. Israel kills 213 Palestinians in airstrikes; Palestinian militant groups kill 12 Israelis with rocket attacks .. You assume Israel’s and hamas care if civilians get killed

I think it benefits both of their narratives.. as sad as that is
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We do but they do it at a greater scale. Israel kills 213 Palestinians in airstrikes; Palestinian militant groups kill 12 Israelis with rocket attacks .. You assume Israel’s and hamas care if civilians get killed

I think it benefits both of their narratives.. as sad as that is
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maybe you do. but democrats as a group do not.

if i said 2+2=4, would you say no it doesn’t? i wonder sometimes.

i do assume Israel cares because why else would they warn civilians to try to separate themselves from terrorists.

And i assume hamas doesn’t care, because they intentionally target israeli citizens.

are you serious? Israel is shooosed to respond exactly proportionately when attacked?

Is Hamas laid down their arms, so would Israel. If Israel laid down their arms, Hamas would kill every single Israeli man, woman, and child.
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maybe you do. but democrats as a group do not.

if i said 2+2=4, would you say no it doesn’t? i wonder sometimes.

i do assume Israel cares because why else would they warn civilians to try to separate themselves from terrorists.

And i assume hamas doesn’t care, because they intentionally target israeli citizens.

are you serious? Israel is shooosed to respond exactly proportionately when attacked?

Is Hamas laid down their arms, so would Israel. If Israel laid down their arms, Hamas would kill every single Israeli man, woman, and child.
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JERUSALEM — Twenty-seven days before the first rocket was fired from Gaza this week, a squad of Israeli police officers entered the Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, brushed the Palestinian attendants aside and strode across its vast limestone courtyard. Then they cut the cables to the loudspeakers that broadcast prayers to the faithful from four medieval minarets.

It was the night of April 13, the first day of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. It was also Memorial Day in Israel, which honors those who died fighting for the country. The Israeli president was delivering a speech at the Western Wall, a sacred Jewish site that lies below the mosque, and Israeli officials were concerned that the prayers would drown it out.

The incident was confirmed by six mosque officials, three of whom witnessed it; the Israeli police declined to comment. In the outside world, it barely registered.
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maybe you do. but democrats as a group do not.

if i said 2+2=4, would you say no it doesn’t? i wonder sometimes.

i do assume Israel cares because why else would they warn civilians to try to separate themselves from terrorists.

And i assume hamas doesn’t care, because they intentionally target israeli citizens.

are you serious? Israel is shooosed to respond exactly proportionately when attacked?

Is Hamas laid down their arms, so would Israel. If Israel laid down their arms, Hamas would kill every single Israeli man, woman, and child.
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Jim neither Hamas nor Israel would exist with out the fear of destruction

Both use fear of the other to justify their methods. From building settlements to firing rockets

I look at like positional asphyxia

Israel has it knee on the Palestinians cutting of their air and in response they increase their struggles trying to breath , then Israel apply s more force to gain compliance and all they get it. More struggling

And round and round it Goes


As for you question are you serious? Israel is shooosed to respond exactly proportionately when attacked? Quick response is yes In most incidents you use enough force to stop the threat. Not to punish.. but Israel has a history of collective punishment.. which always comes into question when there so much infrastructure destroyed.. cell phone and civilian warnings look good for public relations not sure how effective it is at keeping non combatants safe
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Jim neither Hamas nor Israel would exist with out the fear of destruction

Both use fear of the other to justify their methods. From building settlements to firing rockets

I look at like positional asphyxia

Israel has it knee on the Palestinians cutting of their air and in response they increase their struggles trying to breath , then Israel apply s more force to gain compliance and all they get it. More struggling

And round and round it Goes


As for you question are you serious? Israel is shooosed to respond exactly proportionately when attacked? Quick response is yes In most incidents you use enough force to stop the threat. Not to punish.. but Israel has a history of collective punishment.. which always comes into question when there so much infrastructure destroyed.. cell phone and civilian warnings look good for public relations not sure how effective it is at keeping non combatants safe
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Man.

Which side has a history of unprovoked violent attack a against the other, and which one uses violence after being attacked?

if someone punches you in the face, and you punch them back, those two things are not morally equivalent. not even close.

hamas doesn’t deny their goal is to wipe israel out of existnce. Israel wants to be left alone. not that israel is perfect, but theres no comparison. it’s like comparing the Nazis to the Poles in the 1930s.

forget about what each party’s line is, and just think. for two seconds, take off the blinders .
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When your land and property are stolen, what would you suggest the Palestinians do?

The international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories illegal on one of two bases: that they are in violation of Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, or that they are in breach of international declarations.[a][b][c][d][e] The United Nations Security Council, the United Nations General Assembly, the International Committee of the Red Cross, the International Court of Justice and the High Contracting Parties to the Convention have all affirmed that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies to Israeli settlements.[f][g]

Numerous UN resolutions and prevailing international opinion hold that Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights are a violation of international law, including UN Security Council resolutions in 1979, 1980,[8][9][10] and 2016.[11][12] UN Security Council Resolution 446 refers to the Fourth Geneva Convention as the applicable international legal instrument, and calls upon Israel to desist from transferring its own population into the territories or changing their demographic makeup. 126 Representatives at the reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions in 2014 declared the settlements illegal[13] as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice[14] and the International Committee of the Red Cross.
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Man.

Which side has a history of unprovoked violent attack a against the other, and which one uses violence after being attacked?

if someone punches you in the face, and you punch them back, those two things are not morally equivalent. not even close.

hamas doesn’t deny their goal is to wipe israel out of existnce. Israel wants to be left alone. not that israel is perfect, but theres no comparison. it’s like comparing the Nazis to the Poles in the 1930s.

forget about what each party’s line is, and just think. for two seconds, take off the blinders .
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What blinders my view is based on historical actions from both sides

Neither has the high ground but neither is willing to provide concessions .. the West Bank and Gaza are not much different from Indian reservations . With The illusion of autonomy . until the one with the power Israel decides otherwise
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What blinders my view is based on historical actions from both sides

Neither has the high ground but neither is willing to provide concessions .. the West Bank and Gaza are not much different from Indian reservations . With The illusion of autonomy . until the one with the power Israel decides otherwise
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ok, if you rely on historical facts. please point to all
the historical occasions when israel killed palestinian terrorists without provocation.

one side absolutely has the moral ground. israel would stop fighting if hamas would. israel isn’t explicitly saying they want palestinians to cease to exist. what about that don’t you get?

once again, towing the party line, never any exceptions.
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ok, if you rely on historical facts. please point to all
the historical occasions when israel killed palestinian terrorists without provocation.

one side absolutely has the moral ground. israel would stop fighting if hamas would. israel isn’t explicitly saying they want palestinians to cease to exist. what about that don’t you get?

once again, towing the party line, never any exceptions.
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Jim the world took their land may 1948 in and created the state of Israel. Out of thin air. 1967 they annexed East Jerusalem because the had the power to do so..

If these are not provocations I am not sure what fits your definition of a provocation..

I just find it odd with the History of persecution the Jews have and what happened in WW2 I understand they won’t let it happen again .. and I hope it never does .. But when you become what you opposed .. in the name of past transgressions, it’s very hypocritical to me ..
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But when you become what you opposed .. in the name of past transgressions, it’s very hypocritical to me ..
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ok. so you’re comparing Israel to nazi germany. you stink at this.

and MANY historians say jews were there first, a LONG time ago.
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But when you become what you opposed .. in the name of past transgressions, it’s very hypocritical to me ..

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are you calling Paul S and Got Strippers hypocrits?

Israel’s actions are far closer to those of South Africa than Nazi Germany.
Apartheid Law
The Race Classification Act. Every citizen suspected of not being European was classified according to race.
The Mixed Marriages Act. It prohibited marriage between people of different races.
The Group Areas Act. It forced people of certain races into living in designated areas.
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are you calling Paul S and Got Strippers hypocrits?

no, no, when liberals do a 180, they are “evolving.”.
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When the far right does a 180 they identify as Trumplicans

Morals don't count
"As a relatively young man, I remember a time in this great nation when those endowed with public trust and those that were elected to public office were held to a higher standard." R. Aderholt

We are the same as Russia
"To say that we and the Soviet Union are to be compared is the equivalent of saying that the man who pushes the old lady into the way of an oncoming bus and the man who pushes [her] out of the way … are both people who push old ladies around." Wm. Buckley

TFG promised he would eliminate the nation’s debt in eight years.
When he took office in January 2017, the national debt stood at $19.9 trillion. In October 2020, the national debt reached a new high of $27 trillion. That's an increase of almost 36% in less than four years.

“I want you to use my words against me. If there’s a Republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say Lindsey Graham said let’s let the next president, whoever it might be, make that nomination,”
Hmmm

"Donald, you're a sniveling coward and leave [my wife] the hell alone!" T. Cruz
Cucked

I could quote paragraphs on January 6th


But we will see, the mobs will always turn on their own and their movements inevitably collapse. It's just a matter of how much damage they do in the meantime.

When the far right does a 180 they identify as Trumplicans

Morals don't count
"As a relatively young man, I remember a time in this great nation when those endowed with public trust and those that were elected to public office were held to a higher standard." R. Aderholt

We are the same as Russia
"To say that we and the Soviet Union are to be compared is the equivalent of saying that the man who pushes the old lady into the way of an oncoming bus and the man who pushes [her] out of the way … are both people who push old ladies around." Wm. Buckley

TFG promised he would eliminate the nation’s debt in eight years.
When he took office in January 2017, the national debt stood at $19.9 trillion. In October 2020, the national debt reached a new high of $27 trillion. That's an increase of almost 36% in less than four years.

“I want you to use my words against me. If there’s a Republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say Lindsey Graham said let’s let the next president, whoever it might be, make that nomination,”
Hmmm

"Donald, you're a sniveling coward and leave [my wife] the hell alone!" T. Cruz
Cucked

I could quote paragraphs on January 6th


But we will see, the mobs will always turn on their own and their movements inevitably collapse. It's just a matter of how much damage they do in the meantime.

Ok, a little exercise in hypocrisy here...

"TFG promised he would eliminate the nation’s debt in eight years."

I honestly didn't know he promised that. If he did, it was an insanely stupid thing to promise, and he absolutely deserves criticism for it.

Biden famously said this to a roomfull of blacks:

"Republicans want to put y'all back in chains".

Is that a more responsible thing to say, that what you criticize Trump for? The record shows, that Trump led the economy to an all-time record low of black unemployment, he increased funding for black colleges, and he strongly advocated criminal justice reform, which blacks have wanted for decades. Trump advocates for school choice, which would disproportionately help blacks. So, how accurate (and how unifying) was Biden's statement?

Here's another Biden gem:

"I promise you if I'm elected president, you're going to see the single most important thing that changes America, we're gonna cure cancer,""

Now when Bidens term/terms are up, and cancer still exists, are you prepared to say he didn't live up to this promise? Or do you only care when Republicans break promises?

"I could quote paragraphs on January 6th"

Yes you can. And I can match every one of your quotes, with a quote from a democrat defending the anti-police riots all last summer, which took a lot more lives, and did way more damage, than what happened on January 6.

"“I want you to use my words against me. If there’s a Republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say Lindsey Graham"

Graham was a complete. 100% hypocrite on that issue, and deserves to be called out for it. Fair enough?

Pete, do you know what the "Biden rule" regarding SCOTUS is?

When Bush 41 was POTUS, Biden said a president should not make late-term appointments, and if he tried to do so, that the senate should block him.

Then, when Biden was VP and his administration had a late-term vacancy, he felt it was their duty to fill it.

Then, when Trump had a late-term vacancy, Biden said the potus should not fill it.

So Biden opposed late-term appointments, then supported them, then opposed them again.

So if Lindsey Graham is a hypocrite (which he 100% is), how can you deny that Biden also is?

You have fun trying to answer that.

When the far right does a 180 they identify as Trumplicans . . .

What does the far left identify as? Do they identify themselves as "the far left"? Does the "far right" identify themselves as "the far right"? Are those "far" groups as needy to label people as you? I think you have that in common with them (as you have in common with Trump).

But we will see, the mobs will always turn on their own and their movements inevitably collapse. It's just a matter of how much damage they do in the meantime.

Which is precisely the reason I vote against Progressives--how much damage they will do in the meantime.

I could quote paragraphs on January 6th

No doubt you could quote paragraphs on every day of the week. And every quote would imply something or other.

Ok, a little exercise in hypocrisy here...

"TFG promised he would eliminate the nation’s debt in eight years."

I honestly didn't know he promised that. If he did, it was an insanely stupid thing to promise, and he absolutely deserves criticism for it.

Biden famously said this to a roomfull of blacks:

"Republicans want to put y'all back in chains".

Is that a more responsible thing to say, that what you criticize Trump for? The record shows, that Trump led the economy to an all-time record low of black unemployment, he increased funding for black colleges, and he strongly advocated criminal justice reform, which blacks have wanted for decades. Trump advocates for school choice, which would disproportionately help blacks. So, how accurate (and how unifying) was Biden's statement?

Guess you'll have to tell them, for some reason they don't trust TFG: About 87% of Black voters nationwide chose Biden over Trump, according to preliminary national exit polling. Those early exit polls show that 19% of Black men voted for Trump, as did 9% of Black women.

An Associated Press VoteCast survey showed overall larger Black support for Biden — 90%. According to the AP survey, 12% of Black men voted for Trump, while only 6% of Black women supported him.

Here's another Biden gem:

"I promise you if I'm elected president, you're going to see the single most important thing that changes America, we're gonna cure cancer,""

Now when Bidens term/terms are up, and cancer still exists, are you prepared to say he didn't live up to this promise? Or do you only care when Republicans break promises?

A few people as simple as you may have take hyperbole as truth, but it didn't kill anyone as opposed to this statement

“Wash your hands, stay clean. You don’t have to necessarily grab every handrail unless you have to,” TFG said, the room chuckling. “I mean, view this the same as the flu.”

How many dead?

Three weeks later, March 19, TFG acknowledged to Woodward: “To be honest with you, I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down. Because I don’t want to create a panic.”

"I could quote paragraphs on January 6th"

Yes you can. And I can match every one of your quotes, with a quote from a democrat defending the anti-police riots all last summer, which took a lot more lives, and did way more damage, than what happened on January 6.

And between 15 and 25 million more people participated in them, how many were there on January 6th?

The recent Black Lives Matter protests peaked on June 6, when half a million people turned out in nearly 550 places across the United States. That was a single day in more than a month of protests that still continue to today. 15 million to 26 million people in the United States have participated in demonstrations over the death of George Floyd and others in recent weeks.

In the five years following the beginning of the Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement in 2014, census places that have had BLM protests experience a 15-20% decrease in police homicides – approximately 300 fewer deaths.

Black Lives Matter uprisings were remarkably nonviolent. When there was violence, very often police or counterprotesters were reportedly directing it at the protesters.

First, police made arrests in 5 percent of the protest events, with over 8,500 reported arrests (or possibly more). Police used tear gas or related chemical substances in 2.5 percent of these events.

Protesters or bystanders were reported injured in 1.6 percent of the protests. In total, at least three Black Lives Matter protesters and one other person were killed while protesting in Omaha, Austin and Kenosha, Wis. One anti-fascist protester killed a far-right group member during a confrontation in Portland, Ore.; law enforcement killed the alleged assailant several days later.

Police were reported injured in 1 percent of the protests. A law enforcement officer killed in California was allegedly shot by supporters of the far-right “boogaloo” movement, not anti-racism protesters. The killings in the line of duty of other law enforcement officers during this period were not related to the protests.

Only 3.7 percent of the protests involved property damage or vandalism. Some portion of these involved neither police nor protesters, but people engaging in vandalism or looting alongside the protests.

In short, our data suggest that 96.3 percent of events involved no property damage or police injuries, and in 97.7 percent of events, no injuries were reported among participants, bystanders or police.


"“I want you to use my words against me. If there’s a Republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say Lindsey Graham"

Graham was a complete. 100% hypocrite on that issue, and deserves to be called out for it. Fair enough?

Pete, do you know what the "Biden rule" regarding SCOTUS is?

When Bush 41 was POTUS, Biden said a president should not make late-term appointments, and if he tried to do so, that the senate should block him.

Then, when Biden was VP and his administration had a late-term vacancy, he felt it was their duty to fill it.

Then, when Trump had a late-term vacancy, Biden said the potus should not fill it.

So Biden opposed late-term appointments, then supported them, then opposed them again.

So if Lindsey Graham is a hypocrite (which he 100% is), how can you deny that Biden also is?

You have fun trying to answer that.

I didn't say that, did I?

You missed these

Morals don't count
"As a relatively young man, I remember a time in this great nation when those endowed with public trust and those that were elected to public office were held to a higher standard." R. Aderholt

We are the same as Russia
"To say that we and the Soviet Union are to be compared is the equivalent of saying that the man who pushes the old lady into the way of an oncoming bus and the man who pushes [her] out of the way … are both people who push old ladies around." Wm. Buckley

No doubt you could quote paragraphs on every day of the week. And every quote would imply something or other.

What, no Youtube video?

What, no Youtube video?

Don't see the need for one. Certainly don't do nearly as many as you.

When the far right does a 180 they identify as Trumplicans

Morals don't count
"As a relatively young man, I remember a time in this great nation when those endowed with public trust and those that were elected to public office were held to a higher standard." R. Aderholt

We are the same as Russia
"To say that we and the Soviet Union are to be compared is the equivalent of saying that the man who pushes the old lady into the way of an oncoming bus and the man who pushes [her] out of the way … are both people who push old ladies around." Wm. Buckley

TFG promised he would eliminate the nation’s debt in eight years.
When he took office in January 2017, the national debt stood at $19.9 trillion. In October 2020, the national debt reached a new high of $27 trillion. That's an increase of almost 36% in less than four years.

“I want you to use my words against me. If there’s a Republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say Lindsey Graham said let’s let the next president, whoever it might be, make that nomination,”
Hmmm

"Donald, you're a sniveling coward and leave [my wife] the hell alone!" T. Cruz
Cucked

I could quote paragraphs on January 6th


But we will see, the mobs will always turn on their own and their movements inevitably collapse. It's just a matter of how much damage they do in the meantime.

No doubt you could quote paragraphs on every day of the week. And every quote would imply something or other.

FOX News slid all the way down from: George Will, Bill Kristol, Nina Easton, Krauthammer, Jonah Goldberg, to: Ben Domenech, Tucker Carlson, Dan Bongino, Kayleigh McEneny, Jesse Waters and Greg Gutfeld. That first group, even if you disagree with them politically, at least were the real deal.

And one would think this is from a future history text, not an aging science fiction book: “The United States had become a place where entertainers ... were mistaken for people of importance. They were idolized and treated as leaders; their opinions were sought on everything and they took themselves just as seriously."

FOX News slid all the way down from: George Will, Bill Kristol, Nina Easton, Krauthammer, Jonah Goldberg, to: Ben Domenech, Tucker Carlson, Dan Bongino, Kayleigh McEneny, Jesse Waters and Greg Gutfeld. That first group, even if you disagree with them politically, at least were the real deal.

And one would think this is from a future history text, not an aging science fiction book: “The United States had become a place where entertainers ... were mistaken for people of importance. They were idolized and treated as leaders; their opinions were sought on everything and they took themselves just as seriously."

What, no Youtube video? Uh, oh, now your gonna post two or three. Please forget my reply. Never happened. Move on to other more important quotes and videos and articles and opinions and suppositions.

Please.

FOX News slid all the way down from: George Will, Bill Kristol, Nina Easton, Krauthammer, Jonah Goldberg, to: Ben Domenech, Tucker Carlson, Dan Bongino, Kayleigh McEneny, Jesse Waters and Greg Gutfeld. That first group, even if you disagree with them politically, at least were the real deal.

And one would think this is from a future history text, not an aging science fiction book: “The United States had become a place where entertainers ... were mistaken for people of importance. They were idolized and treated as leaders; their opinions were sought on everything and they took themselves just as seriously."

Pete, we all see that you completely ignored my questions about Biden flip-flopping regarding late-term SCOTUS appointments.

You criticized Graham for flip-flopping, and I agreed with you, because you were obviously correct.

But hen I pointed out Biden taking 3 different positions on late-term SCOTUS appointments, and you won't comment.

Why? Why does it only bother you when Republicans do it?

ok. so you’re comparing Israel to nazi germany. you stink at this. No jim I am suggesting the Jew were oppressed but oppression has many forms .. you don't need gas chambers of slave labor.... to be The oppressor

and MANY historians say jews were there first, a LONG time ago. And indians were here before americans So they should get it Back you are to simplistic in your world view it lacks Nuance
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-the-gop-became-a-pro-israel-party/

How Republicans fell in love with Israel

1988, Democrats and Republicans had basically similar attitudes toward Israel two fundamental forces combined to transform the GOP into the hardcore pro-Israel party we know today. First, the rise of the religious right, which sees hard-line support for Israel as a religious obligation. Second, the neoconservative movement successfully convinced most Republican leaders that being pro-Israel should be a core conservative value.


Democrats are much more open to criticizing Israel on issues like West Bank settlements, whereas Republican support for Israel is more unconditional.

one directly linked to the rise of evangelical Protestants in the GOP, whose beliefs about biblically granted rights to the Holy Land make them inclined to take a strongly pro-Israel stance.

So its all about religion for the GOP and its love affair with Israel...
religion makes poor policy

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-the-gop-became-a-pro-israel-party/

l...
religion makes poor policy

Religion is the reason behind the anti-slavery movement in the country (which democrats fought a war over to keep).

Religion is the reason behind the anti-segregation movement in the country (which democrats fought to sustain).

Religion is the reason why the pilgrims came here, and it's very very obviously at the root of all of our freedoms and founding philosophies.

Islam makes bad policy. Moderate judeo-Christian principles? Come on.

Pete, we all see that you completely ignored my questions about Biden flip-flopping regarding late-term SCOTUS appointments.

You criticized Graham for flip-flopping, and I agreed with you, because you were obviously correct.

But hen I pointed out Biden taking 3 different positions on late-term SCOTUS appointments, and you won't comment.

Why? Why does it only bother you when Republicans do it?

I didn't say that, did I?

Why do you think that I need to flip out like you over every political statement that has been made, or even care? I can look at the big picture, a body of work and make a judgement call. So did most Americans in the last election.

And by the way, you still missed these

Morals don't count
"As a relatively young man, I remember a time in this great nation when those endowed with public trust and those that were elected to public office were held to a higher standard." R. Aderholt

We are the same as Russia
"To say that we and the Soviet Union are to be compared is the equivalent of saying that the man who pushes the old lady into the way of an oncoming bus and the man who pushes [her] out of the way … are both people who push old ladies around." Wm. Buckley

I didn't say that, did I?

Why do you think that I need to flip out like you over every political statement that has been made, or even care? I can look at the big picture, a body of work and make a judgement call. So did most Americans in the last election.

And by the way, you still missed these

Morals don't count
"As a relatively young man, I remember a time in this great nation when those endowed with public trust and those that were elected to public office were held to a higher standard." R. Aderholt

We are the same as Russia
"To say that we and the Soviet Union are to be compared is the equivalent of saying that the man who pushes the old lady into the way of an oncoming bus and the man who pushes [her] out of the way … are both people who push old ladies around." Wm. Buckley

"I didn't say that, did I"

Why else did you post that Lyndsay Graham said that Trump shouldn't make a SCOTUS appointment late in his term?

And you very explicitly called out the GOP for doing 180s. Did you forget?

"Why do you think that I need to flip out like you over every political statement that has been made"

This from the guy banned from starting threads, by the most middle-ground guy on here, because we were all worried about your frequency of flip outs.

You point out republican hypocrisy. Not only did I not flip out, I agreed with you. I asked you to comment on democrat hypocrisy, and all of a sudden its a character flaw to ask about one sides hypocrisy.

"I didn't say that, did I"

Why else did you post that Lyndsay Graham said that Trump shouldn't make a SCOTUS appointment late in his term?

And you very explicitly called out the GOP for doing 180s. Did you forget?

"Why do you think that I need to flip out like you over every political statement that has been made"

This from the guy banned from starting threads, by the most middle-ground guy on here, because we were all worried about your frequency of flip outs.

You point out republican hypocrisy. Not only did I not flip out, I agreed with you. I asked you to comment on democrat hypocrisy, and all of a sudden its a character flaw to ask about one sides hypocrisy.

Why do you think that I need to flip out like you over every political statement that has been made, or even care? I can look at the big picture, a body of work and make a judgement call. So did most Americans in the last election.

And by the way, you still missed these

Morals don't count
"As a relatively young man, I remember a time in this great nation when those endowed with public trust and those that were elected to public office were held to a higher standard." R. Aderholt

We are the same as Russia
"To say that we and the Soviet Union are to be compared is the equivalent of saying that the man who pushes the old lady into the way of an oncoming bus and the man who pushes [her] out of the way … are both people who push old ladies around." Wm. Buckley
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I didn't say that, did I?

Why do you think that I need to flip out lBuckley

no, you never do that.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

no, you never do that.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Why do you think that I need to flip out like you over every political statement that has been made, or even care? I can look at the big picture, a body of work and make a judgement call. So did most Americans in the last election.

And by the way, you still missed these

Morals don't count
"As a relatively young man, I remember a time in this great nation when those endowed with public trust and those that were elected to public office were held to a higher standard." R. Aderholt

We are the same as Russia
"To say that we and the Soviet Union are to be compared is the equivalent of saying that the man who pushes the old lady into the way of an oncoming bus and the man who pushes [her] out of the way … are both people who push old ladies around." Wm. Buckley

Religion is the reason behind the anti-slavery movement in the country (which democrats fought a war over to keep).

Religion is the reason behind the anti-segregation movement in the country (which democrats fought to sustain).

Religion is the reason why the pilgrims came here, and it's very very obviously at the root of all of our freedoms and founding philosophies.

Islam makes bad policy. Moderate judeo-Christian principles? Come on.


Jim please speak in terms of recent history ..

The GOP love affair with Israel is new to the political landscape .. a quick google search . its all there

Hell Republicans and many others won’t vote for a catholic because they think they will have allegiance to the pope not the nation

the anti-slavery movement in the country (which democrats fought a war over to keep).

Your one of those guys aren’t you!

The problem is that the Republicans and the politics of 1860 bear almost zero resemblance to the Republicans of today.

But please keep convincing yourself that they are …. Like I said no nuance


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim please speak in terms of recent history ..

The GOP love affair with Israel is new to the political landscape .. q google search it all there

Hell Republicans and many others won’t vote for a catholic because they think they will have allegiance to the pope not the nation
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim please speak in terms of recent history ignore all the good that religion has done, when trying to argue that religion has done any good.

Recently? The right-wing nuts ta the New York Times recently posted a study showing that conservatives (thanks to their religious beliefs), give more money to charity than liberals, despite making less money on average. Do you think that it's bad public policy to rely on beliefs that incentivize people to be more charitable?

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html

In Psychology today, an article showing that people who identify as religious, consider themselves to be happier, than athiests. DO you think it's bad public policy, to rely on beliefs that make people feel happier?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/the-human-beast/201211/are-religious-people-happier

Here, according to the CDC, religious people are less likely to get divorced. Do you think it's bad public policy to rely on beliefs that keep the nuclear family intact, which prevents all kinds of awful societal problems?

https://divorce.lovetoknow.com/Divorce_Statistics_by_Religion

Here, according to the right wing nuts at the Huffington Post, religious people commit less crime. Do you think it's bad public policy to rely on beliefs that result in less crime?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/no-time-for-crime-study-f_b_4384046

"Hell Republicans and many others won’t vote for a catholic because they think they will have allegiance to the pope not the nation"

You're suggesting religious politicians have a hard time in the GOP? That's a new one.

Religion is the reason behind the anti-slavery movement in the country (which democrats fought a war over to keep).

Religion is the reason behind the anti-segregation movement in the country (which democrats fought to sustain).

Religion is the reason why the pilgrims came here, and it's very very obviously at the root of all of our freedoms and founding philosophies.


This is perhaps the most historically ignorant post Jim has ever made.

This is perhaps the most historically ignorant post Jim has ever made.

abolitionists like John Brown and we’rent motivated by judeo christian principles?

The Rev Martin Luther King Jr wasn’t motivated by judeo christian principles?

The ideas of equality and freedom, all the rights that are endowed by our creator, what do you suppose that means?

With your worldview, you may have convinced yourself that by creator, they were talking about Stalin or Mao. But they meant God.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Kamala is doing a fabulous job securing the border...

Kamala is doing a fabulous job securing the border...

What's 16,000 Haitians entering Del Rio Texas in one long chain over a weekend? Will you quit being such a perfectionist!

A constant chain of thousands of Haitians crossed the river into Texas. They were able to cross for hours and hours in a continuous flow. No one stopped them.

I remember several years ago, a young congressional candidate wanted to show how open the border was, he went to Mexico, rented an elephant and a mariachi band, and rode the elephant across the border, with the mariachi band marching next to him, playing music. True story. But we don't have an open border.

What's 16,000 Haitians entering Del Rio Texas in one long chain over a weekend? Will you quit being such a perfectionist!

A constant chain of thousands of Haitians crossed the river into Texas. They were able to cross for hours and hours in a continuous flow. No one stopped them.

I remember several years ago, a young congressional candidate wanted to show how open the border was, he went to Mexico, rented an elephant and a mariachi band, and rode the elephant across the border, with the mariachi band marching next to him, playing music. True story. But we don't have an open border.

Jim you story is from 2006. Guess who was POTUS. GW Bush Open borders! talk about being a parrot .

You want mine fields?

Such transfers will continue "in order to ensure that irregular migrants are swiftly taken into custody, processed, and removed from the United States consistent with our laws and policy," DHS said in a statement.


But the usual suspects think the above isn’t happening .. following the law that’s to outrageous
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim you story is from 2006. Guess who was POTUS. GW Bush Open borders! talk about being a parrot .

You want mine fields?

Such transfers will continue "in order to ensure that irregular migrants are swiftly taken into custody, processed, and removed from the United States consistent with our laws and policy," DHS said in a statement.


But the usual suspects think the above isn’t happening .. following the law that’s to outrageous
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

the 16,000 illegals in Del Rio, is going on right now.

i explicitly said the elephant story was “several years ago.”

“you want mine fields?”

yes, because the only two choices are wide open borders, or mine fields. there’s nothing in between. All countries which effectively control immigration, do it with mine fields.

Do you have mine fields on your front lawn to keep people
out, Einstein? or do you just shut your door, because it turns out walls work, even when Trump says it.

you’re not embarrassed by that?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim please speak in terms of recent history ignore all the good that religion has done, when trying to argue that religion has done any good.

Recently? The right-wing nuts ta the New York Times recently posted a study showing that conservatives (thanks to their religious beliefs), give more money to charity than liberals, despite making less money on average. Do you think that it's bad public policy to rely on beliefs that incentivize people to be more charitable?

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html

In Psychology today, an article showing that people who identify as religious, consider themselves to be happier, than athiests. DO you think it's bad public policy, to rely on beliefs that make people feel happier?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/the-human-beast/201211/are-religious-people-happier

Here, according to the CDC, religious people are less likely to get divorced. Do you think it's bad public policy to rely on beliefs that keep the nuclear family intact, which prevents all kinds of awful societal problems?

https://divorce.lovetoknow.com/Divorce_Statistics_by_Religion

Here, according to the right wing nuts at the Huffington Post, religious people commit less crime. Do you think it's bad public policy to rely on beliefs that result in less crime?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/no-time-for-crime-study-f_b_4384046

"Hell Republicans and many others won’t vote for a catholic because they think they will have allegiance to the pope not the nation"

You're suggesting religious politicians have a hard time in the GOP? That's a new one.

Let me dumb this down for you

Would you support sharia law?

I doubt you would it’s laws based on the Koran some not much different then the 10 commandments

But I don’t what our laws based on the teachings of the Koran or the kings James bibles for the same reasons I do not was a judge to pass sentence based on his religious beliefs or based on the beliefs on the person being sentenced …

Faith from all religion has great benefits for many from the down trodden to the sick to those looking for a higher power for direction ..

But as usual you confused I suggest religion has no place in politics as somehow an attack on people of faith in politics

Religion has no place in policy ! People of faith are welcomed in politics And these 2 positions are not remotely the same . Except to you?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Let me dumb this down for you


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device


:rotf2::rotf2::rotf2:....this should be fun

Let me dumb this down for you

Would you support sharia law?

I doubt you would it’s laws based on the Koran some not much different then the 10 commandments

But I don’t what our laws based on the teachings of the Koran or the kings James bibles for the same reasons I do not was a judge to pass sentence based on his religious beliefs or based on the beliefs on the person being sentenced …

Faith from all religion has great benefits for many from the down trodden to the sick to those looking for a higher power for direction ..

But as usual you confused I suggest religion has no place in politics as somehow an attack on people of faith in politics

Religion has no place in policy ! And these 2 positions are not remotely the same . Except to you?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

“would you support sharia law.”

same logic ( lack there of) when you asked if i want mine fields to control immigration.

When liberals have lost the debate, they often respond not to what the conservative said, but to something that doesn’t come close to resembling the conservative ever said.

i never said i wants sharia law, that’s a moronic straw man extreme guy created, i don’t know who you’re responding to there, but i never hinted at sharia.

i pointed out reports, even in ultra left wing tags, that show positive benefits of judeo christian values, and since somehow you don’t seem
to already know this, judeo christian values are a little bit different than sharia law.

Try responding to what i’m actually saying, as opposed to some gibberish extreme that i never came close to saying.

All liberals do it. you all take from the same exact play book.

From where i sit, i can see an upside to public policy that has its roots in a value system which encourages generosity, charity, happiness, strong nuclear families, and more empathy for each other.

You think it would be “bad policy” to make decisions, influenced by values which behave those results?

You’re entitled to believe that.

Sharia law and mine fields. Yes, that’s what everyone knows i want.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Let me dumb this down for you

Would you support sharia law?

I doubt you would it’s laws based on the Koran some not much different then the 10 commandments

But I don’t what our laws based on the teachings of the Koran or the kings James bibles for the same reasons I do not was a judge to pass sentence based on his religious beliefs or based on the beliefs on the person being sentenced …

Faith from all religion has great benefits for many from the down trodden to the sick to those looking for a higher power for direction ..

But as usual you confused I suggest religion has no place in politics as somehow an attack on people of faith in politics

Religion has no place in policy ! And these 2 positions are not remotely the same . Except to you?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

“would you support sharia law.”

same logic ( lack there of) when you asked if i want mine fields to control immigration.

When liberals have lost the debate, they often respond not to what the conservative said, but to something that doesn’t come close to resembling the conservative ever said.

i never said i wants sharia law, that’s a moronic straw man extreme guy created, i don’t know who you’re responding to there, but i never hinted at sharia.

i pointed out reports, even in ultra left wing tags, that show positive benefits of judeo christian values, and since somehow you don’t seem
to already know this, judeo christian values are a little bit different than sharia law.

Try responding to what i’m actually saying, as opposed to some gibberish extreme that i never came close to saying.

All liberals do it. you all take from the same exact play book.

From where i sit, i can see an upside to public policy that has its roots in a value system which encourages generosity, charity, happiness, strong nuclear families, and more empathy for each other.

You think it would be “bad policy” to make decisions, influenced by values which behave those results?

You’re entitled to believe that.

Sharia law and mine fields. Yes, that’s what everyone knows i want.

Maybe you’re hearing the same
voices that Pete hears.

Wayne, when you can’t respond to what i said, and you have to pretend i said something stupidly different, doesn’t that tell you anything about your beliefs?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

the 16,000 illegals in Del Rio, is going on right now.

i explicitly said the elephant story was “several years ago.”

“you want mine fields?”

yes, because the only two choices are wide open borders, or mine fields. there’s nothing in between. All countries which effectively control immigration, do it with mine fields.

Do you have mine fields on your front lawn to keep people
out, Einstein? or do you just shut your door, because it turns out walls work, even when Trump says it.

you’re not embarrassed by that?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Why would I be embarrassed ? Do you not having any empathy for these people who feel they need to do what they are doing?

Are they are being deported? Are they not?

Or is this another faux invasion so they can vote for Dems

The United States' southern border with Mexico is 1,933 miles long, stretching from the Pacific Ocean to the tip of South Texas. Some 700 of those miles have fencing in place


Why do conservatives only think in terms of obstacles.. as solutions

From fences to voter id to 6 week Abortion laws

But they never look at stability as the easiest way to slow migration

Yet we’re not building a 5525 mile fence with Canada

Why because Canada is stable .
We only get their comedians

Look at the facts Haiti and the Dominican Republic

Same island 1 side stable 1 side not

And who’s under the bridge Haitians whom homes were destroyed by a earthquake and their political system In turmoil from an assassination

Cause and effect
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Why would I be embarrassed ? Do you not having any empathy for these people who feel they need to do what they are doing?

Are they are being deported? Are they not?

Or is this another faux invasion so they can vote for Dems

The United States' southern border with Mexico is 1,933 miles long, stretching from the Pacific Ocean to the tip of South Texas. Some 700 of those miles have fencing in place


Why do conservatives only think in terms of obstacles.. as solutions

From fences to voter id to 6 week Abortion laws

But they never look at stability as the easiest way to slow migration

Yet we’re not building a 5525 mile fence with Canada

Why because Canada is stable .
We only get their comedians

Look at the facts Haiti and the Dominican Republic

Same island 1 side stable 1 side not

And who’s under the bridge Haitians whom homes were destroyed by a earthquake and their political system In turmoil from an assassination

Cause and effect
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

same question as in another thread…wayne, when you can’t respond to what i actually said, and you have to pretend that i said something totally different ( mine fields, sharia law), what does that tell you about your beliefs?

Oh, so it’s showing empathy to allow illegal immigration? What about the abuse these people suffer at the hands of the smugglers on the other side? some estimates say that 25% of the women who cross illegally, are sexually assaulted on the mexican side, because bad guys know where the crossing points are.

So if slowing that to happen, if incentivizing people to abandon toddlers at the border, if incentivizing adults crossing illegally to “rent” children so they can enjoy the benefits of appearing as a family unit, if all that is showing empathy for these people, sorry i don’t see it.

i have deep empathy for anyone feeling despair. doesn’t mean i want them all coming here.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

“would you support sharia law.”

same logic ( lack there of) when you asked if i want mine fields to control immigration.

When liberals have lost the debate, they often respond not to what the conservative said, but to something that doesn’t come close to resembling the conservative ever said.

i never said i wants sharia law, that’s a moronic straw man extreme guy created, i don’t know who you’re responding to there, but i never hinted at sharia.

i pointed out reports, even in ultra left wing tags, that show positive benefits of judeo christian values, and since somehow you don’t seem
to already know this, judeo christian values are a little bit different than sharia law.

Try responding to what i’m actually saying, as opposed to some gibberish extreme that i never came close to saying.

All liberals do it. you all take from the same exact play book.

From where i sit, i can see an upside to public policy that has its roots in a value system which encourages generosity, charity, happiness, strong nuclear families, and more empathy for each other.

You think it would be “bad policy” to make decisions, influenced by values which behave those results?

You’re entitled to believe that.

Sharia law and mine fields. Yes, that’s what everyone knows i want.

Maybe you’re hearing the same
voices that Pete hears.

Wayne, when you can’t respond to what i said, and you have to pretend i said something stupidly different, doesn’t that tell you anything about your beliefs?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device


Jim if you allow religious based politics and allow religion to dictate
Policies you get Shia law! No difference then using the King James Bible ( if you read the next sentence)

That’s is the extreme example but as if on cue you thought it was directed at you. Which it was not

I share many values that my religious friends share they may embrace them via church I embrace them because it’s the right thing to do we can hold shared values in America with out holding the same Book..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

same question as in another thread…wayne, when you can’t respond to what i actually said, and you have to pretend that i said something totally different ( mine fields, sharia law), what does that tell you about your beliefs?

Oh, so it’s showing empathy to allow illegal immigration? What about the abuse these people suffer at the hands of the smugglers on the other side? some estimates say that 25% of the women who cross illegally, are sexually assaulted on the mexican side, because bad guys know where the crossing points are.

So if slowing that to happen, if incentivizing people to abandon toddlers at the border, if incentivizing adults crossing illegally to “rent” children so they can enjoy the benefits of appearing as a family unit, if all that is showing empathy for these people, sorry i don’t see it.

i have deep empathy for anyone feeling despair. doesn’t mean i want them all coming here.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device


Again mines field it was a (rhetorical question). Aka what’s the solution if deportation isn’t enough and people are unwilling to send money to these countries to improve conditions so they don’t want to leave ..

And we’re talking about Haiti not Mexicans and what happens on that side .. with the rights faux outrage on what those women face as if the GOP gives a rats you know what just like the Afghan women and children .. we care but like you said

doesn’t mean i want them all coming here.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Jim if you allow religious based politics and allow religion to dictate
Policies you get Shia law! No difference then using the King James Bible ( if you read the next sentence)

That’s is the extreme example but as if on cue you thought it was directed at you. Which it was not

I share many values that my religious friends share they may embrace them via church I embrace them because it’s the right thing to do we can hold shared values in America with out holding the same Book..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You’re so wrong. you can make policy based on religious beliefs, without becoming a theocracy. those two things aren’t remotely the same thing.

all good politicians advocate for public policy based on what their conscience tells them is right. there are many ways of forming a conscience. people form consciences based on what their parents taught them, what they learned in school, what they hear in TV, what they read, even what they hear in church.

Our constitution says there is no official, state sanctioned religion. It doesn’t come close to saying we remove religion from public office, that’s settled case law. That doesn’t come close to meaning that a religiously-informed conscience isn’t compatible with democracy, while a conscience formed by what someone learned at school is compatible.

Consciences formed by religion have done incredible things throughout our history.

As i’ve shown ( as reported in the New York Times and The Huffington Post), religiously informed consciences can motivate people to do some really good, productive things.

I’m not saying we make divorce illegal because it violates catholic catechism - that would
be a theocracy as you correctly stated. No one is advocating for that. i’m saying we promote and advocate the benefits of strong families, of generosity, of having ACTUAL empathy for each other, and advocating for a culture that is designed to make people
feel good about themselves. That’s not what we have now. Especially not in our cities.

The anti segregationists like Rev Martin Luther King, Eisenhower, and Jack and Bobby Kennedy, had anti segregation positions that were influenced heavily by their faith. Are you saying it was therefore wrong to pass the anti segregation laws?
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You’re so wrong. you can make policy based on religious beliefs, without becoming a theocracy. those two things aren’t remotely the same thing.

all good politicians advocate for public policy based on what their conscience tells them is right. there are many ways of forming a conscience. people form consciences based on what their parents taught them, what they learned in school, what they hear in TV, what they read, even what they hear in church.

Our constitution says there is no official, state sanctioned religion. It doesn’t come close to saying we remove religion from public office, that’s settled case law. That doesn’t come close to meaning that a religiously-informed conscience isn’t compatible with democracy, while a conscience formed by what someone learned at school is compatible.

Consciences formed by religion have done incredible things throughout our history.

As i’ve shown ( as reported in the New York Times and The Huffington Post), religiously informed consciences can motivate people to do some really good, productive things.

I’m not saying we make divorce illegal because it violates catholic catechism - that would
be a theocracy as you correctly stated. No one is advocating for that. i’m saying we promote and advocate the benefits of strong families, of generosity, of having ACTUAL empathy for each other, and advocating for a culture that is designed to make people
feel good about themselves. That’s not what we have now. Especially not in our cities.

The anti segregationists like Rev Martin Luther King, Eisenhower, and Jack and Bobby Kennedy, had anti segregation positions that were influenced heavily by their faith. Are you saying it was therefore wrong to pass the anti segregation laws?
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what you written is how it should be

But states like Texas and others involving abortion . It’s all driven by the religious right .. all in the name of votes and Republicans seem to be the only party trying to overturn ROE. Aka religious right a very vocal but small minority
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what you written is how it should be

But states like Texas and others involving abortion . It’s all driven by the religious right .. all in the name of votes and Republicans seem to be the only party trying to overturn ROE. Aka religious right a very vocal but small minority
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but it’s ok for a politician to say, “i think abortion should be illegal”, even if that opinion is formed by his faith. we don’t dismiss opinions that are influenced by faith. that’s not what separation of church and state means.

Show me a politician who is trying to make his whole religion the law of the land, and i’ll agree that’s a clear violation of church and state.

We don’t require anyone ( except judges i guess) including legislators, to leave their religion at home when they go to work.

sure it’s republicans predominantly who want to overturn Roe. but we aren’t all blindly following our religion. What I mean is, i’m catholic. If the pope said tomorrow that abortion is ok, i wouldn’t suddenly be pro choice. I’d find another religion that feels abortion is wrong, because the catholic church would no longer be the place for me.

I’m not anti abortion because i’m catholic. That’s kind of backwards. More correct to say that I’m catholic, because I’m anti abortion. my anti abortion stance led me to catholicism. does that make sense? I chose catholicism because it fits me, i didn’t change everything i previously believed once i became catholic. when catholicism says everything i hold dear is wrong, I’ll
leave. I don’t think my church is perfect ( i’m pro gay marriage for way longer than most democrats), good for me the catholic church allows dissent on that issue ( not on abortion).

i’m sure there are a small number of kooks who want a theocracy, but that’s nowhere close to what the overwhelming majority of the GOP wants.
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I’m not anti abortion because i’m catholic. That’s kind of backwards. More correct to say that I’m catholic, because I’m anti abortion. my anti abortion stance led me to catholicism. does that make sense?

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leftists think that anyone who disagrees with them must have been brainwashed in some way not to agree by someone that disagrees with them with them because they can't possibly be wrong...or brainwashed...it's pretty funny

So the Catholic Church has always been against abortion?

Lots of Popes and Catholic scholars would disagree with that.

The Church’s longest held belief on this matter is one of “delayed hominization,” or that a fetus could not gain a soul until it was “formed.” St. Thomas Aquinas, a major heavyweight in the Catholic Church in the 13th century, took after Aristotle and believed that being formed enough for ensoulment happened at around 40 days for males and about 80 days for females. More commonly, ensoulment was deemed to happen at the “quickening,” the moment when a pregnant woman first feels her child move, normally around 18 weeks into a pregnancy. While Catholic law frowned upon abortion, it ruled that it was only homicide if it occured after the fetus gained a human soul.

Writings from the time show that abortion was a widespread and largely socially accepted practice, and in some cases, supported by church leaders. In the fifteenth century, St. Antonius, Archbishop of Florence, defended abortions that were medically necessary for a pregnant woman so long as they occurred before ensoulment. Antonius wasn’t a controversial figure. The pope at the time declared him to be a “brilliant theologian and a popular preacher,” and Antonious’ view was shared by many influential theologians.

Things changed in the late 1580s when Pope Sixtus V came to power. Sixtus V was a notoriously harsh man. Prior to his papacy, he was recalled from his role as the inquisitor general in Venice due to his intensity. In 1588, he issued a papal bull declaring that abortion at any stage of a pregnancy was homicide, and that the punishement was excommunication that could only be lifted by traveling to Rome to beg for forgiveness. However, Sixtus V seemed to be uninterested in enforcing this bull, and frequently granted special dispensations to bishops to handle matters themselves and did not wish for women who procurred abortions to be treated as if they had committed homicide.

This hardline stance on abortion lasted only three years. In 1591 the new Pope Gregory XIV reversed the decision, declaring abortion to only be homicide if it took place after ensoulment, which he determined took place 166 days into a pregnancy, or well over halfway through the second trimester. This decision lasted for 278 years until Pope Pius IX reversed the decision yet again in 1869 and made abortion after conception a sin that automatically excommunicated those involved in its procurement from the Catholic Church. There are only nine sins that have automatic excommunication as a punishment. This new ruling elevated abortion to the same level of sinfullness as punching the pope.

In other words, typewriters, electric batteries, and elevators were all invented before the Catholic Church hardened its stance on abortion. Pope Pius IX didn’t change the Church’s stance on abortion, however, because he believed that ensoulment happened at conception. Rather, he believed that conception gave the potential for ensoulment, and that that potential must be protected. For some, this argument is wildly unpersuasive. Daniel Maguire, a professor emeritus of theological ethics at Marquette University, a Catholic institution, wrote in The Religious Consultation on Population, Reproductive Health & Ethics, “The argument is heard that the fetus is ‘potential life.’ That's wrong. It's real life. It just has not reached personal status. It is potentially a person, but the potential is not actual. After all, gentle reader, you and I are potentially dead but would not like to be treated as if that potentiality were fulfilled.”

He goes on to say, “There may be serious and justifying reasons for killing pre-personal, fetal life. The decision on that belongs naturally to the woman who carries that life. Women have a far better track record than men when it comes to cherishing and protecting life. Let's leave abortion decisions up to them”